Anyone else notice an extremely slow Shutdown??

Yes, it takes forever on my brand new TiBook 667MHz DVI model.

People actually shut down their computers? :eek:

[quote]Originally posted by EmAn:
<strong>People actually shut down their computers? :eek: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Exactly what I was thinking <img src="graemlins/surprised.gif" border="0" alt="[Surprised]" />

shuts down fine on my pismo...

I don't know what the deal is there.

Damn, that can't be good. 10.1.5 already takes forever to shut down, has to disconnect from the internet (even if I disconnect beforehand, it has to reconnect and disconnect for some damn, retarded reason,) plus the normal OS X overhead...

My question. Why shut down your computer? O well. There must be something out of date on your computer because I have PowerMac G3 Beige with 10.2 on it and it shutsdown in about 15 secs. Must be a hardware issue.
<img src="confused.gif" border="0">

15-second shutdown is terrible
Under 10.1.5 (I don't have Jag yet), this ibook 500 uses 4-5 seconds to shut down...

10.1.5 shut down just about instantaniously, 10.2 takes two seconds to shut down.

Mine takes a long time to shut down, but I think that's because I have a ton of servers that need to be shut down plus the invisible login items that have to shut down.

iBook 600 runnng jaguar shutdown time: 12 seconds.
this is longer than in 10.1.5 (which was probably around 6 seconds).
it is annoying.

yeah, shutdown takes longer.. but seriously, i never shut down unless I will not be using my iBook for at least 2-3 days.

iBook 600Mhz

Are folks logging out before shutting down, or just shutting down from the Finder?

I'm in the "rarely shut it down" camp, but I do wish there was some way for the system to sleep when you're logged out...

The reason for an extremely slow shutdown sequence could be that over the days and weeks that Mac OS X had run, a lot of virtual memory may have been paged to the disk. Perhaps at shutdown, one of the things it is waiting for is access to the disk to release that memory.

Just a guess.

Yeah, I also very rarely shut down. The only times I do are for major system updates or to run fsck if things start getting flakey.

[ 09-08-2002: Message edited by: Brad ]</p>

I have:

- iBook 600MHz, 640MB RAM w/Jaguar

w/10.1.5 it took approximately 2-4 seconds to shutdown.

w/10.2 it takes approximately 20 or more seconds to shutdown.

I shutdown twice everyday:

1. When I am leaving work to take pack my laptop up and take it home.

2. When I am wrapping up for the night (at home) to pack it up to take to work the next day.

I SUPPOSE I could just put the machine to sleep at those two times. I had never really considered that. Now perhaps I will give it a try.

The point here is two things:

1. I doubt it is the hardware (especially given that the only thing that has changed is the SOFTWARE). This is a stock Apple machine. Nearly brand new (9 months old).

2. It doesn't seems so incredible for someone to shut their machine down somewhat regularly. (Though, again, I may try this sleep approach...assuming I do not have the wake from sleep problems I've had in the past.)


P.S. My wifes iBook 500MHz w/576MB of RAM has experienced the same issue. It's not the hardware.

[ 09-08-2002: Message edited by: Chris Cuilla ]</p>

[quote]Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:
<strong>I have:

- iBook 600MHz, 640MB RAM w/Jaguar

w/10.1.5 it took approximately 2-4 seconds to shutdown.

w/10.2 it takes approximately 20 or more seconds to shutdown.

I shutdown twice everyday:

1. When I am leaving work to take pack my laptop up and take it home.

2. When I am wrapping up for the night (at home) to pack it up to take to work the next day.

I SUPPOSE I could just put the machine to sleep at those two times. I had never really considered that. Now perhaps I will give it a try.

The point here is two things:

1. I doubt it is the hardware (especially given that the only thing that has changed is the SOFTWARE). This is a stock Apple machine. Nearly brand new (9 months old).

2. It doesn't seems so incredible for someone to shut their machine down somewhat regularly. (Though, again, I may try this sleep approach...assuming I do not have the wake from sleep problems I've had in the past.)


P.S. My wifes iBook 500MHz w/576MB of RAM has experienced the same issue. It's not the hardware.

[ 09-08-2002: Message edited by: Chris Cuilla ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Twice a day? I really think you start taking advantage of the fact that you've got an iBook and enjoy fast wake ups from sleep like everyone else. I don't know when the last time I shut down my Ti was. I've restarted a couple of times but I've probably shut it down once in the 6 months I've had this thing. We're not using windows laptops where the suspend command only works occasionally.

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>We're not using windows laptops where the suspend command only works occasionally.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well...true...but I did have some problems waking from sleep in the past (on OS X). So I got a little "gun shy". I'll try the sleep for a while and see how it goes.

[quote]Originally posted by Chris Cuilla:
<strong> It doesn't seems so incredible for someone to shut their machine down somewhat regularly.</strong><hr></blockquote>

True, but Steve doesn't want you to. And we must do what Steve wants.

[quote]Originally posted by torifile:
<strong>
Twice a day? I really think you start taking advantage of the fact that you've got an iBook and enjoy fast wake ups from sleep like everyone else. I don't know when the last time I shut down my Ti was. I've restarted a couple of times but I've probably shut it down once in the 6 months I've had this thing. We're not using windows laptops where the suspend command only works occasionally.</strong><hr></blockquote>People should be able to shut down whenever they wish. I agree, sleep is great, but the fact that they want to shut down when they could just put it to sleep doesn't resolve or justify this issue.

Also, I have my PC Notebook setup to go to sleep whenever I shut the lid - which is about 10-12 times per day. It always works, quickly and perfectly and wakes up the same way. XP handles power management very well.

[quote]Originally posted by Patchouli:
<strong>People should be able to shut down whenever they wish. I agree, sleep is great, but the fact that they want to shut down when they could just put it to sleep doesn't resolve or justify this issue.

Also, I have my PC Notebook setup to go to sleep whenever I shut the lid - which is about 10-12 times per day. It always works, quickly and perfectly and wakes up the same way. XP handles power management very well.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I didn't mean to imply that he wasn't allowed to shut his computer down whenever, just that it isn't necessary at all.

My iBook 500 took over a minute to shut down today (the first time I've bothered to count). This is Definitely much longer than 10.1, and ridiculously longer than 9. Also, the thing won't go to sleep on it's own, no matter how I set the Energy Saver - I have to shut the lid or use the Apple menu command.

I sometimes get extremely long shutdown times, and sometimes really fast. There doesn't seem to be any pattern to it. Normally when I shut down is when I'm moving my laptop from place to place when I won't be using it in the meantime and I don't want to drain the battery. I also switch between OS X and OS 9 quite often. I will sometimes set the startup disk to the other system and then shut the computer down, so that if I start up the computer again (or if anyone else starts it up), a login is required. Sometimes I'm in a hurry and I don't want to have to wait for the login screen to come up and then have it sleep, so I just change the startup disk and shut it down.

Anyway, it is annoying. Personally, I don't see how Jaguar is worth $130 or even $50 to upgrade from 10.1. It's a minor upgrade at best, a lot like 9.0 to 9.2. Helpful, but not a big deal. Still worth $130 if you don't already own OS X, but not if you have already spent that much for it.

[quote]Originally posted by Overhope:
<strong>True, but Steve doesn't want you to. And we must do what Steve wants. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Oops. I forgot The Steve was watching. Thanks. Whew. That was close. Who knows what the consequences might have been.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Of course, if I wanted to, I could shut down and restart into OS9 every time I wanted to type a text document with SimpleText. Sure, it may just be a waste of my own time, but there's nothing stopping me from doing it. I suppose it could make better sense to use OSX's TextEdit, but I'm stuck in my ways about it.

*ahem* Analogy here. Get it?

Why does shutdown in 10.2 take longer than in 10.1; and why does it take even longer sometimes?

Part of the answer has to do with the Unix layer; which has been significantly changed in Jaguar. Some of the stuff that used to be done at startup is now done during shutdown (startup quicker, shutdown slower - an okay tradeoff). Also, the whole nature of pre-binding has changed; requiring a bit of time during shutdown. The system pre-binds all newly-installed software the next time the system is shutdown; resulting in the varying shutdown times (for those of us who install and delete programs all the time).

A special note... For those who used to run pre-binding apps (such as XOptimize), or did it through the command line, this process is no longer necessary. The next time your system is shutdown, all the necessary Unix goodness happens automatically; ending the need to do it manually.

For these reasons (along with others), I think it might be a good thing to shut down your computer every few months.

dws

[quote]Originally posted by dws:
<strong>Why does shutdown in 10.2 take longer than in 10.1; and why does it take even longer sometimes?

Part of the answer has to do with the Unix layer; which has been significantly changed in Jaguar. Some of the stuff that used to be done at startup is now done during shutdown (startup quicker, shutdown slower - an okay tradeoff). Also, the whole nature of pre-binding has changed; requiring a bit of time during shutdown. The system pre-binds all newly-installed software the next time the system is shutdown; resulting in the varying shutdown times (for those of us who install and delete programs all the time).

dws</strong><hr></blockquote>

While the above may or may not be true, I do not believe that it completely explains the slow shutdown behavior. First off, because not everyone experiences it, and secondly slow shutdowns began with system 10.1.5 for some people (myself included).

This has lead me to believe that slow shutdowns are the result of some sort of error condition. Also, for me anyway the slowness occurs on every shutdown, and doesn't entirely involve disk activity. Actually, here is a synopsis of my shutdown activity: Invoke shutdown, after about 15 seconds the hard drive spins down, after about 30 more seconds of the computer seemingly doing absolutly nothing, it turns off.

dws, thanks for that: I did in fact shut mine down the other day and it seemed to take a while. However, that's only the second time I've shut it down since loading Jaguar, and I'd installed a whole lotta apps in the meantime.

Okay...the experiment is over. I've tried the "not shutting the machine down" thing for 3 days now. 6 sleeps: 2 wakes; 3 no wakes; 1 kernel panic.

Oh well. It was worth a try anyway.

I had mine up for about 8 days, slept about a dozen times, about 3 total failures to wake (though I suspect it may have done if I'd left it alone instead of getting bored and playing), but absolutely no kernel panics (somehow I have yet to see one, which must just be dumb luck on my part). I haven't had a wake-from-sleep failure in about 5 days now.