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More corroboration of tablet device brewing at Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

Your post is full of hype (I'm being polite) but short on cogent argument. Touch screens have been around since forever and because they're a bit more slick these days doesn't make them revolutionary or the answer to everything.

First, no body here has said that they are the answer to everything. One day such devices might be but not in the near future.

In anyevent you miss what is the issues with those previous tablets. Size and power usage made them not much more than transportable. The operating systems made them virtual unusable in tablet form.
Quote:

Have you ever tried doing anything than pressing a button on an iPhone or touch?

How about responding to this thread? Beyond that I use my iPhone for lots of things, stuff that I would never bother with on a laptop or desktop. In anyevent if people run around think such devices are for people that need laptops or desktop machines on the go then you don't have a clue, as I said before this is a device for personal communications & computing. It may overlap the abilities of a laptop but it isn't a machine for laptop duty.
Quote:
It sucks unless you're doing very limited. You can't see what you're editing and it's hard to get any sort of accuracy. The loupe device helps but it's not fast or efficient.

None the less it can be done and is extremely handy. As to your complaints about accuracy take a close look at what we are talking about here! It is a larger device which implies larger keyboards with refined spacing. As to all the whining I've read here about the loupe, I don't know what everybodies problem is as it works for me; again though a larger screen leads to easier use.
Quote:
For a small device the interface is fine. Scaling to a larger device is different question.

First; you are making an assumption here that Mobile OS is static. I see no signs that Apple has frozen it solid yet. They certainly have to address certain issues that are still outstanding on the current iPhone's but the platform is well appointed for mobile devices. Right now Apple needs to flesh out the BluTooth stack, free up access to the iPod connector and agressively debut the currently included apps.

In any event it is the very features of Mobile OS that will make such devices viable and valuable. Think about this a bit you can add apps to an iPhone from just about anywhere and even update them. That is one of the best features going for iPhone. Along with that the apps are effectively secured from one and another, which is reassuring for a device connected 24/7.

More importantly from Apples standpoint is that the new APIs represent a break from the past opening up opportunies for innovation and new vendors. There is nothing worst than a stagnet platform and Mobile OS represents the only new platform in recent memory that has the volume to allow for successfull business development. If you dont see all those iPod Touches and iPhone's sold this year as a huge business opportunity then I really don't know what to say. Larger Touch based devices expand that market even more and expand device capability.

What is notable is that many successful apps on this platform don't really have a counterpart on laptops or desktops. Those that do or work in conjunction with desktop apps often have heavily refactored interfaces. It's a new way forward with people accessible hardware and software.

Finally this issue of size is real but honestly what would keep Apple from offering up more than one size. For example if one device ends up with a 5.5 to 6 inch screen in 16:9 ratio it won't be much larger than the current Touch and very portable. It will however offer up one hell of a lot more pixels leading to a much more usable device. A 7 to 8 inch device may be a little less transportable but would be no worst than a book. Again the user wins with significantly more screen space.

Remember these are not laptops!

Dave
post #42 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by merdhead View Post

This doesn't entirely make sense. What's the point of a large touchscreen device? It's questionable if it can replace a laptop configuration with a mouse and keyboard, and too big just for games and browsing. It would work as an eBook reader too I guess but does that add up to something people are willing to shell out almost as much as a laptop for? Apple has to show that touchscreen devices are useful for real work, not just games and browsing, to make a successful product, if they're moving away from handheld devices.

Then it sounds like you don't need one, since you don't understand its value.
I for one will be first in line (well maybe v1.1.)
I have a desktop (substitute laptop, since they're virtually the same nowdays) for anything requiring much computing power. Very rare... occasional DVD rip or video editing.
For just about everything else, I can do just fine with a 7-9" mail-web-app device. Throw in a bluetooth or even dock-able keyboard-port expander, and I have 95% of everything I ever use anymore.
The annoying thing about boards like this is that people only think devices tailored just to them can succeed.
This thing will kick ass.
post #43 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

As others have said, I can see them being used in a corporate/education environment. A few of them chained to a conference room table lets each participant add their own notes to slides.

I know of a few corporate environments where dondage seems to be a way of life but what is with the tablets being chained to the table? Especially when you are trying to make a point that implies nobody would want the devices. If there was no desire for the devices you could leave them on the street corner and they would be safe.
Quote:

But not sure what private individuals would use them for. Maybe built in to car? The iPod connectors are common now. Maybe it is a car attachment, not a carry around thing.

Boy you really don't get it! The whole point is portability, depending on the devices actual size it could be on your person all the time or managed like a good book. Remember such a device offers significantly less resistance to travel due to it's size and lack of complexity.

There is as many reasons to carry the device as there are reasons to carry an iPhone. Plus hundreds more. This is about the future not the past, it means having local news at your finger tips, great novels and reference works are always on hand as is your ability to communicate over the net. If you think of these devices like one would traditional laptops you have missed the point. Instead think of it as a combo of: a MP3 player, portable movie player, a communications device, an ebook reader, an E-Mail machine, a web access tool, a GPS unit, a game machine and a host of other tools roles into one.

The only thing Apple needs to do is to realize there is a market for different sized devices where at least one still fits into a pocket. That and keep developing the OS to free it from it's current limitations.
post #44 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Then it sounds like you don't need one, since you don't understand its value.
I for one will be first in line (well maybe v1.1.)
I have a desktop (substitute laptop, since they're virtually the same nowdays) for anything requiring much computing power. Very rare... occasional DVD rip or video editing.
For just about everything else, I can do just fine with a 7-9" mail-web-app device. Throw in a bluetooth or even dock-able keyboard-port expander, and I have 95% of everything I ever use anymore.
The annoying thing about boards like this is that people only think devices tailored just to them can succeed.
This thing will kick ass.

If they are cheap enough I will buy one also. I am mainly a desktop user and I don't like laptops because they are bulky and I rarely need to be portable. Already, I use remote desktop and "back to my mac" (when it works), more than I use a laptop. If I need to work somewhere besides my actual work or work from home, these kinds of remote solutions are far easier in the long run than copying data to a laptop to take home for the weekend.

Another major problem with laptops (IMO) is they are full-fledged separate computers. for most people who use them they are complete desktop replacements. A lot of folks don't like having two computers and worrying about what data is on which one, so it becomes an either/or situation. A tablet like this would allow me to have a separate computer to take into the living room or out to a coffee shop but leave all the data back on my *real* computer, the desktop. It's a different way of working than with a laptop.

If this catches on, laptop users will be like "classic" iPod users are relative to regular iPod users. Laptops will be for those that need to carry the whole world around with them on their backs, and tablet users will simply carry around the data/media they need for that day. If Apple designs them right, I could see one's data being accessible on the tablet without even having to own the tablet.

How cool would it be to arrive in a new town for a meeting and just be handed a free tablet which then syncs with MobileMe and drags all your data down onto it? How about using any tablet anywhere to remotely access your home computer? How about one of these things beside every bed in every hotel you go to? There are lots of killer apps for this thing if it's handled right, if it can be made cheap and ubiquitous, and if people are willing to think differently.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #45 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Then it sounds like you don't need one, since you don't understand its value.

This is what I don't understand about this thread, that is people not grasping how useful devices like this can be. I think part of the problem is that people can only comprehend based on the past and not the future. Nor can they grok the idea that theses devices could come in several sizes.
Quote:
I for one will be first in line (well maybe v1.1.)

Unfortunately this may be good advise, even the current iPhone OS could use some more work. Given that if the right hardware comes out, along with a more capable OS, then I might take a dive.

Note: by a more capable OS I do not mean get rid of Mobile OS in favor of something else. Rather I just want the OS fleshed out for use on more powerful hardware. That includes full USB and BluTooth drivers, printer drivers and multi tasking /background apps.
Quote:
I have a desktop (substitute laptop, since they're virtually the same nowdays) for anything requiring much computing power. Very rare... occasional DVD rip or video editing.

Likewise here. A laptop is especially troublesome to carry around on a daily basis or when traveling. Whatever advantage they have in power is usurped by run times that are way to short and the inconvience of use. I'd have to estimate that my iPhone is now handling 95% of my E-Mail traffic right now simple because it is always there. IPhone's screen size actually makes it less than ideal for that but you adapt simply because the advantages out weigh the short comings.
Quote:
For just about everything else, I can do just fine with a 7-9" mail-web-app device.

Maybe a little to big? Of course that depends on the screen ratio. One good bench mark for size would be one of O'REILLY's Pocket Reference books. These are a little over 8" on the diagonal, obviously the screen needs to be contained within that. For me and the projected usage this actually might be ever so slightly to big. The width really needs to be under 4 inches, ideally 3.5 or less.

I think the sweet spot for one of these devices is between checkbook size and the size of these O'Reilly books. It is important to realize that this would only be one of a couple of devices. The important thing for this model is to be sized to slip in a pocket. Done right this should almost double the pixels on screen.
Quote:
Throw in a bluetooth or even dock-able keyboard-port expander, and I have 95% of everything I ever use anymore.

Yeah it would cover alot. However I'm still worried that Apple doesn't have a clue in realizing just how important full support for BluTooth is. My only hope is that they have simply been to busy debugging what they currently have. The other thing I'd like to see is a printing API. None of these wants and desires are impossible even on todays hardware. I just don't want Apple to make the mistake of using Mac OS/X on these machines.
Quote:
The annoying thing about boards like this is that people only think devices tailored just to them can succeed.
This thing will kick ass.

That is a problem but Apple can address those issues too. For example add an expansion slot for the RF networking and carrier of your own desire. Thus no vendor lock in yet a machine that can easily migrate to any RF data service. A flash expansion module/slot should be mandatory but this should not be a reason to be stingy on internal flash storage which should be huge. A provision for clip on expansion devices.

To expand a bit on those clip on devices what I'm after here is a way to attach various devices to devices chassis to expand it's capability. The interface would be a fast FireWire port. Clip on examples would include things like cameras, barcode readers, radios of various types, analog in modules and whatever else might be dreamed up. The goal here is to have robust expansion that does not significantly impact the cases integrity but allows easy adaptation by the user. That is no need to dive inside the case.

In any event that is a way to address individual need.


Dave
post #46 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by mercury7 View Post

If appleinsider knows more then why wait?

Conclusion, they don't.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #47 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by lepton View Post

My goodness, I just today published an article about how Apple's next new device will be a NetPad, about the size of three iPhones side by side. I've included a lot of detail about how this would look and work. http://www.myallo.com/blog

All you are is agreeing with the rest of us at this stage.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #48 of 61
If this tablet is not a Mac I will be pissed. We don't need another iPhone/iPod touch with a larger screen - that will just making carrying an equivalent device on the go more difficult. I need huge differentiation. I want my Mac touch, with a 10" screen. Running Snow Leopard.

Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #49 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

If this tablet is not a Mac I will be pissed. We don't need another iPhone/iPod touch with a larger screen - that will just making carrying an equivalent device on the go more difficult. I need huge differentiation. I want my Mac touch, with a 10" screen. Running Snow Leopard. ...

OS-X on a touchscreen is kinda painful IMO. None of the controls are made for fingers and the dialogue boxes have "issues" even when using a mouse. Unless Snow Leopard is a major interface overhaul, I would rather have some version of the mobile, or "iPhone OS-X" instead.

Sure there will be folks that want to run FinalCut Pro on the thing or something, but to ruin a perfectly good device trying to accommodate that kind of outrageousness would be a bad idea IMO.

It should be a netbook type device, (even if it doesn't look like one.) That means the functions of the iPhone, with the addition of a basic productivity suite (web-enabled probably), and some kind of drawing or art applications. Possibly the biggest hole software wise at the moment is that Apple has no drawing/painting program in it's line-up and the ancient, creaky, windows-based CS suite would not fit on such a device.

Wild prediction:

Apple may have already bought Pixelmator and is waiting for the new device to let everyone know.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #50 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nano2Gfteo View Post

The Newton 2000 did (handwriting recognition) and did it way better than the WinMo devices of recent built ever did. I would suggest a specialised writing area much like the Palm Pilot (remember the Pilot rocked the market during its time). The main screen will do the multi-touch stuff and cursor positioning.

Apple needs a radical change in the post-Jobs era. See what Mark Hurd did for HP!. He is almost invisible to the press and did great work to move HP where it is today. Amazing.

every time somebody uses the N-word in an iPhone related discussion, steve jobs kills a fairy...

that said, i love my iphone almost as much as i love my newton (doh!) and i would love an iphone based device i could pair with a keyboard. handwriting recognition as good as the mp2000's would be icing on the cake! and the 'find elvis' feature too of course...
post #51 of 61
I sincerely apologize for posting this again. (I meant to do it here, in this thread, but instead accidentally posted it on a related netbook thread.)

These may be somewhat basic (and dumb) questions: How exactly does one hold one of these to work on it? Is it for the lap? Or to be held in one's hand? Or both? Laid flat on a desk? Have a little tail out the back to make it stand, so as to be viewed at a normal viewing angle? Given that it will be too big for one's pocket, how will it be carried? How will the screen be protected in transit? Will it accept an external keyboard or will it be completely touch-based?

To me, something like this looks prima facie to be an awkwardly-sized product that's neither here nor there.
post #52 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

OS-X on a touchscreen is kinda painful IMO. None of the controls are made for fingers and the dialogue boxes have "issues" even when using a mouse. Unless Snow Leopard is a major interface overhaul...

Well that's idea, Jeeze.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #53 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I sincerely apologize for posting this again. (I meant to do it here, in this thread, but instead accidentally posted it on a related netbook thread.)

Someone call the police!
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of a rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #54 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I sincerely apologize for posting this again. (I meant to do it here, in this thread, but instead accidentally posted it on a related netbook thread.)

These may be somewhat basic (and dumb) questions: How exactly does one hold one of these to work on it? Is it for the lap? Or to be held in one's hand? Or both? Laid flat on a desk? Have a little tail out the back to make it stand, so as to be viewed at a normal viewing angle? Given that it will be too big for one's pocket, how will it be carried? How will the screen be protected in transit? Will it accept an external keyboard or will it be completely touch-based?

To me, something like this looks prima facie to be an awkwardly-sized product that's neither here nor there.

All/any of the above.
I personally don't care if the thing can fit in a pocket. I think that's too limiting.
Women have an easy solution, since anything up to about 9" diagonal easily goes into a purse.
Maybe its time guys got over the 'IT'S NOT A PURSE!!!' thing and recognized the value of not trying to stuff everything into pants pockets.
As an aside, a previous entry about having a desktop for the full load, tablet for a lighter version, and touch/iPhone for minimal traveling reminds me of George Carlin's old routine 'A place for my stuff'.
post #55 of 61
I want the 10" Mac touch that Ireland keeps pimping, with the ability to run all the standard bundled OS X apps, iLife, iWork, ARD & WoW…

I really don't think that is asking too much…

;^p
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post #56 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRonin View Post

I want the 10" Mac touch that Ireland keeps pimping, with the ability to run all the standard bundled OS X apps, iLife, iWork, ARD & WoW

Not to blow the bubble but I don't think such a design has a chance in hell. What's the market and who would be so foolish to buy such a thing. If there was such an interest we would see more than a couple of people expressing a desire for this type of tablet.
Quote:
I really don't think that is asking too much

;^p

It is way to much to ask for and frankly Apple could never sell enough to cover setting up the production line. It has been proven again and again that tablets running desktop apps will not be successful.

Instead smaller tablets will be delivered focused on a whole different set of use cases. These are not machines to do the work normally done on a desktop.



Dave
post #57 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Then it sounds like you don't need one, since you don't understand its value.
I for one will be first in line (well maybe v1.1.)
I have a desktop (substitute laptop, since they're virtually the same nowdays) for anything requiring much computing power. Very rare... occasional DVD rip or video editing.
For just about everything else, I can do just fine with a 7-9" mail-web-app device. Throw in a bluetooth or even dock-able keyboard-port expander, and I have 95% of everything I ever use anymore.
The annoying thing about boards like this is that people only think devices tailored just to them can succeed.
This thing will kick ass.

Great, so the product has an identified market of one, you. And everyone is like you. Or maybe you haven't been paying attention to the fact that no-one buys desktops anymore and this thing would be completing with laptops which serve a similar purpose but are more flexible, productive and cheaper.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

If they are cheap enough I will buy one also. I am mainly a desktop user and I don't like laptops because they are bulky and I rarely need to be portable. Already, I use remote desktop and "back to my mac" (when it works), more than I use a laptop. If I need to work somewhere besides my actual work or work from home, these kinds of remote solutions are far easier in the long run than copying data to a laptop to take home for the weekend.

Another major problem with laptops (IMO) is they are full-fledged separate computers. for most people who use them they are complete desktop replacements. A lot of folks don't like having two computers and worrying about what data is on which one, so it becomes an either/or situation. A tablet like this would allow me to have a separate computer to take into the living room or out to a coffee shop but leave all the data back on my *real* computer, the desktop. It's a different way of working than with a laptop.

Your argument makes no sense. If laptops are too big it makes sense to make a smaller laptop, not a touchscreen device. A laptop is a separate computer but a tablet isn't? The fact that a device is more crippled or capable makes it more useful? What are you smoking?
post #58 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Finally Apple doesn't have to show anything as the Touch devices demonstrate a strong market for such devices.

Dave

the ipod touch and the iphone show a market for handheld, stick it in your pocket when you are done, style device.

it really doesn't show that folks would be willing to have a device that is easily twice as big, etc.
post #59 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

the ipod touch and the iphone show a market for handheld, stick it in your pocket when you are done, style device.

This is most certainly true. But it goes beyond that in one sense it validates the concept of a Touch interface. That is Touch as the primary input method. In my mind it also validates a type of computing device focused on media delivery, communications and recreational apps. In other words a platform that can exist without a focus on the corporate world.
Quote:
it really doesn't show that folks would be willing to have a device that is easily twice as big, etc.

This is a big concern to me also. When I here talk of a 9 or 10 inch iPod Touch I do get a bit worried. That is why I've been using references to check books and O'Reilly's Pocket References as size bench marks for a larger device that could easily be carried about. I believe it is vitally important for Apple to get a product out in this range before going bigger. They also need to flesh out that OS so it better supports on the go computing; that means BluTooth and multitasking. A bigger faster more modern device should provide the hardware to allow this.

As to a much larger tablet, to me that is a different market altogether. The difference is that if you can't carry it on your person continously then it really ceases to be a personal communications device and effective isn't much different that a laptop.

The thing with the slightly larger devices is this - screen real estate - which even a little bit can have a major impact. All the other advantages, such a a larger battery and more flash, are secondary.



Dave
post #60 of 61
Look. I read the runes.

My brother had an MP3 player about ten years ago. It had no memory and a weird interface. I didn't want one. And then the iPod was released and I said 'Oh, yes, I see,’ and I got my FIVE GIGABYTE!!!!!! MP3 brick and that was that.

This device is going to be an ebook reader, principally. It’s going to be slick and sexy, and la-de-da, and there’s going to be an iBooks store, and its going to recommend you books, and it's going to put you in touch with other people reading the book you are so you can discuss it with strangers and stuff like that. It’s going to be touch-page turning, and WiFi’d, of course, and probably have a camera on it for your iChat needs I imagine, and I expect it’ll play your AACs, and recommend tunes to go with the book you’re reading…

...and there are going to be literary blogs where you can download books, and people are going to ‘rip’ printed texts, and the publishing industry is about to be hit by the same tsunami of sharing that’s devastated the music industry.
post #61 of 61
Netpad? Doesn't the "pad" derive from a diminuitive input area (ie: subordinate to a notebook)? There's also a whiff of stylus input from the days of Newton

The "Net" certainly connects it to the new NetBook phenom which has quickly come to mean cheap and light, though Apple/Jobs have been quick to distance themselves from it. I think we might have to start putting air quotes around uses of the "Internet" pretty soon (a la Dr. Evil's "lay-zer").

A larger form factor iPhone/PodTouch could be the cheaper and lighter laptop - plus touch. Built in USB connection for keyboard input, fer sure.

So…NetTouch perhaps? Or MacBookTouch? Whee…

(Great blog post BTW)
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