Apple's next-gen Mac mini to get dual display support - Page 6

First I doubt that even if they introduce a new iMac optionally featuring a quad-core processor, it won't be available for a month, as Intel only started shipping new processors that COULD be used in the iMac as of Dec. 28, and it takes about 6 weeks for new Macs to be manufactured with any new chips. As these new chips have a similar power usage as the older chips, then I don't see the iMac getting a new design. There have been patents for new cooling systems which could require a minor design change, perhaps slightly fatter and that could be across the whole back or just a bulge. Maybe Apple will introduce a 25th Anniversary iMac with a translucent enclosure to reflect the first iMac and maybe pay homage to the G5 Cube.

I could be wrong here, but I think you are thinking about Grand Central Dispatch which packetizes processor tasks like a network does to take better advantage of local processors, whether they are in the CPU or the GPU. I don't think it goes outside the box (literally) and uses network resources, unless a new version of XGrid meshes with this as well. I have not heard about that possibility.

There have been a few supercomputer clusters with Xserves. There was the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign 640 node cluster but the best was the 1100 node (2200 2.3 GHz G5 processors) that Virgina Tech put together called System X. I don't know if xgrid was used, but remember it's only part of the server software, not the client software most people run. You could run it via command line on the client OS. The discontinued VisualHub could take advantage of it.

You do realize iTunes is (and has always been) more than the iTunes Store, yes? It stores the user's music library, movies and videos, TV shows, podcasts, and also serves as a connection with the user's iPhoto library. Apple TV stores and/or streams all of this content, whether it be bought from the iTunes Store, ripped from CDs and DVDs, or downloaded via P2P and torrent sites.

So what "personal media" are you talking about? Apple TV will even stream the user's MobileMe gallery, flickr gallery, and YouTube videos.

Also, Apple's small profits on music pay for maintenance of the iTunes Store. They're a hardware company, remember?

They can do both to some extent, but the FrontRow software built into the MacMini is significantly different from the software built into AppleTV. There are more user friendly features in AppleTV.

There is a recent rumor the Apple will be selling the software that runs the Apple TV for use on a regular Mac, so you Mac Mini users can get the superior Apple TV user interface for your custom home media centers.

No, I haven't seen any feedback here that shows that HDCP doesn't "make it through." All you need is a Mini DisplayPort-to-DVI adapter and a DVI-to-HDMI adapter.

As for audio, I don't believe DVI supports audio either, so even if Mini DisplayPort supported audio, the DVI-to-HDMI adapter would kill it. What's your point? If you want HD sound with that HDTV, you'll hook up the Mini DisplayPort-equipped Mac directly to the sound system via a Toslink optical cable (or through a receiver).

A total redesign is unlikely until they do something like remove the internal SuperDrive and even then, it'll likely just become thinner. But there's no reason Apple couldn't/wouldn't make minor cosmetic changes like extending the black plastic around the display over the entire front to hide the aluminum "chin", remove the black plastic in the back in favor of aluminum to imitate the look of the new 24" LED Cinema Display, and/or bundle a black-keyed aluminum keyboard.

I would take a black keyboard with backlit keys. I use my computer in the dark all the time and a backlit keyboard would be sweet! Yes, I can buy one from a 3rd party, but I'd rather have an Apple keyboard. Plus, I love the new keyboards they use now.

AppleTV does have some extra features such as direct access to the iTunes store, viewing online albums and such. But FrontRow can also do things that AppleTV can't. FrontRow will play your DVDs or video_TS files so you can watch your DVDs without having to convert them to another format and you have all your DVD's menus and extras. It will also play any QuickTime video file on your computer. AppleTV is restricted to a VERY limited set of formats and everything must be in iTunes. It's this last thing that makes the mini a far superior media server for my needs. I have lots of digital video from camcorders, digitized family films, etc. For some reason Apple doesn't support all QuickTime compatible formats on the AppleTV. If I remember correctly, they only support two video codec at specific resolutions and a handful of audio formats. I'd rather just play the files I have without having to convert them (lost time and quality) and without needing to put them all in iTunes. FrontRow allows that.

It would be nice if FrontRow had AppleTV's online capabilities, but I doubt Apple will ever add FR's video capabilities to AppleTV.

I think the point was there is no mini displayport to HDMI cable just now, monoprice is working on one. Since displayport supports audio as featured by the speakers in Apple's 24' LED Cinema Display (not to mention the webcam) we can only hope the audio will be passed through this adapter cable to a HDMI connected TV so you could watch HD content from the Mac all over one cable. There can be timing differences when the audio travels a different path from the video, so we would like to avoid it.

Actually, it's already been demonstrated that the audio to the new LED Cinema Display is via the USB connection, not the mDP. The mDP on the new laptops does not carry audio.

There are devices for DVI that will merge the DVI video signal with an audio signal and outputs both on HDMI, so you could conceivably do a similar thing with mDP. But at that point I'd probably just run an optical cable straight to my receiver.

Is HDCP really lost? I wonder how that would be tested. If it is lost, I wonder if an HDMI adapter would actually change that.


Unfortunately, LED Cinema Display doesn't work that way:

http://support.apple.com/kb/index?pa...ma_Display.pdf

"Connect the USB cable to your computer to use the display’s built-in iSight camera,
speakers, microphone, and USB ports."

As the two posts above mine point out, Mini DisplayPort doesn't do audio. Pin-wise, full DisplayPort and Mini DisplayPort are identical, but audio is optional. I don't see the big draw of having everything go through one cable when you're going to wind up with lackluster sound via the HDTV's built-in speakers; many people don't have receivers and many who do lack HDMI connections anyway.

I don't even know that full DisplayPort's audio supports Dolby Digital - according to wikipedia's article on DisplayPort, it doesn't support Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio as HDMI does. I doubt DisplayPort would since it's license and royalty-free.

I've never heard of, nor experienced "timing differences" by using separate cables for audio and video.

I don't think that makes sense given that DisplayPort is supposed to be a connection for the future, HDMI is too, one doesn't only look at the installed base as it is now. There are already plenty of inexpensive surround receivers that take HDMI. There are several home theater in a box type systems that have HDMI too. Won't those that don't have receivers be using the TV speakers? Why not save a cable there too? I'm not seeing a down side here.


I really don't know, but to move bitstream audio, it's just wiring and maybe a flag to identify the codec. To move audio decoded to bitstream, it's a completely moot point if the source can decode the audio.


It does sound specious. The cables can't induce a lag in milliseconds, if there is a lag like that, something is wrong with at least one of the devices connected to the cable. I don't know if using the same cable necessarily helps this, I can see that maybe it can help but it's no assurance.

I doubt that supporting TrueHD or DTS-HD MA is all that important. I still find that it's best to allow the local Blu-ray player to mix all audio signals (including system audible notification and more) and just send the data out as LPCM.

Current AVR don't manage THD or DTS streams any better than the player so why worry about sending the native signal?

As for DisplayPort I do not believe the audio functionality is turned on yet nor is the 1Mbps aux stream. Hopefully all currently shipping MDP Macs will be able add audio, daisychaining and more features with future updates.

True, I shouldn't assume receiver penetration will remain the same, it's likely to increase. What I should have added was of those who do have HDMI-equipped receivers, very few hook up their computers to them. I don't see that changing much nor soon.

As for cheap receivers and those included in theater-in-a-box systems, while some have HDMI, most only have one, maybe two HDMI ports at most, which are likely to be quickly taken up by other components, like HD cable TV/DVR boxes, the HDTV itself, videogame consoles, and/or an Apple TV.

Agree wholeheartedly.

To suggest that the Mini or any other desktop (DT) computer, i.e., not a portable, laptop, notebook, etc., would, could or should be powered up via a 'magsafe' type connector is not thinking it through.

One should ask themselves why other DT computers have not incorporated the technology. Why would Apple incorporate it in the new Mini and not the new iMacs, Mac Pro, new LED LCD Display or Cinema Displays?

Other than deep fryers*, I am having trouble were magnetic power supplies are used routinely.

I have a Macbook Pro and with the Magsafe connectors, i.e., Magsafe Power Adapter and Magsafe Airline Adapter, I feel really safe being plugged in whether I am at home, in the university lab/libraries, on a plane or at clients. http://www.great-laptop-deals.com/ap...ro/magsafe.php

Having such connectors for an LP makes real sense as long as I haven't taken out the battery. No such luck on a DT. However, for those that aren't concerned about there computer crashing to the floor, there is always the MagStay Pro. http://thoughtout.biz/MagStayPRO.

Note that Apple could not make magnetic power adapter and call it a ""Magsafe" if it were 'tied' into the computer. The liabilities would be too great.

Portables were made to run on batteries. However, working on large databases or graphic files, playing games, downloading large files or upgrading software, being AC connected is sometimes necessary. Even if I am not, I can still switch to a new battery if I have to and not lose anything. Couldn't do that on a Mini.

*http://ezinearticles.com/?Have-You-E...rd?&id=1208954

Who said anything about Blu-ray? I was talking about DisplayPort and questioned if it supported Dolby Digital.


Doesn't sound like we're talking about the same thing.


But if audio were turned on, would it support Dolby Digital? That's my question. If it doesn't, I don't see any real reason for full DisplayPort or Mini DisplayPort to enable audio. This is why I believe Apple has implied DisplayPort is for computers, HDMI is for TVs (and things that connect to them, like their HDMI-equipped Apple TV). For those who want to connect their computers to their HDTVs, they can use DisplayPort-to-DVI-to-HDMI for video and fiber optic for audio.

5 years from now DisplayPort will have eradicated HDMI on most CE devices. I really do not see a reason for the distinction.

HDMI is going to struggle to keep up with 480hz TV (like LG's TruMotion) and larger panels. We may as well start replacing HDMI right now.

As I've seen people say before, HDMI was designed for consumer electronics, DisplayPort was designed for computers, though there is some overlap in utility.

I doubt HDMI will have any problem keeping up with data rates. The latest HDMI is about as fast as the latest DisplayPort. There is more than enough headroom in both right now, and if there is a need for more, I'm pretty sure higher data rate modes will be added to both standards, not just one.

Besides, I'm skeptical that a 480Hz refresh rate on a display would be of any value.

Seach for a Microsoft presentation on DisplayPort delivered at WinHec 2008. It's very informative. HDMI is running out of bandwidth and will not scale as fast as DisplayPort. The problem with 120hz LCD and movement towards 240hz and 480hz LCD will only exacerbate the issue.

I know that VESA is promoting DP as a computer only connection but let's read the tea leaves here. It supports 8 channels of LPCM audio (just like HDMI) and it has an aux channel that can run a variety of signals but the kicker is that it's royalty free.

If I'm a CE company I'm looking at saving the royalty fees and to move to DP once they've got the proper audio support and licensing (Dolby, DTS)

The lines of delineation between HDMI have been blurred once they started putting HDMI ports on GPU and computers.

That sounds like a reasonable progression in a free market. Save money by not including the port on, say, a Blu-ray player, then market this new connection as the "latest and greatest", then advertise that it's backwards compatible with HDMI and DVI to end fears of incompatibility, then also make money by selling an adapter for those with older systems.

Many people have complained about DP, but this is the best option I can remember for having a future-forward A/V out tech that works for both PCs and Home Entertainment systems.

LCD today all have a natural blurring of the picture.

LG and Samsung are combating this via faster refresh rates.


http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/37446/97/

http://mindvisiontheater.wordpress.c...dia-expo-2008/

http://gizmodo.com/5120464/lg-to-sho...display-at-ces

Whether we like it or not these sets will become the new higher end standards and I believe that HDMI is going to run out of juice.

Exactly. I don't see the need for two types of cables regardless of CE or computer application. DisplayPort 1.2 is due this year and it's going to increase bandwidth yet again and I believe Apple's MDP hardware will be able to take advantage.

HDMI was a decent bridge connection but DisplayPort beat out UDI and will usurp HDMI rather quickly (primarily based on it's DP++ support for DVI/HDMI/VGA)

%60 bandwidth delivers HD video easily over 45ft cables.

I've found it, but have no way to play it.


I don't see 480Hz to be a problem, I see no reason to see 480Hz to be anything other than marketing penis-waving, kind of like saying we all need 512kHz sampling rate audio playback for entertainment.

It's hard enough finding 1080p60 recording equipment or media, and I'm sceptical that 120Hz output is needed as a transmission media. A 120Hz panel is good for playing 24, 40 and 60Hz data streams, but there's no need to send those along the cable as a 120Hz stream.

Not only that, on video cameras, doubling the frame rate means halving the shutter time. To get the same output levels means doubling the amplification, which gets more noise, and more dynamic range lets you see that noise in better detail.


The licensing fees I've seen are peanuts compared to the cost of operating a CE company.

HDMI equipped receivers are becoming more common and is believe it or not the smart way to connect HD media players to your system. I have one, it certainly is not a cheap receiver either and has two HDMI's in. IT makes life soooo much easier when messing around trying to get the TV / receiver on the right channel for what you are watching because picture and sound are on the same input. i.e. it is wife/girlfriend friendly - probably the most important consideration of any media set-up.

Some earlier said that Mini Display port to HDMI will have HDCP and audio pass-thru. As long as that is the case then I am happy.

I don't think anyone would argue with that it is the best way to connect your HES, at this point.


DP has included support for HDCP and can push to a HDMI-enabled (at least for video) monitor. HDMI will continue to reign in HES until A/V over DP can get up and running, then I think we'll see a move to DP.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to argue that.


But of course, you don't need HDMI to get audio on the same channel as video. You just hook up separate audio and video cables to corresponding inputs.

Not really the same.

The Video will be going into the TV, the audio through the receiver. What I am talking about sends everything through the receiver and thus only a single HDMI into the TV (very wife friendly). I can have three A/V devices running into my receiver and all can be watched on the same TV HDMI channel. Maybe nothing major to some people but it is a much more elegant solution.

Yeah it is!

This mess of wire solution: http://www.prillaman.net/image/1070rear.jpg

Or this simple solution: http://z.about.com/d/hometheater/1/0...0hdmi2-800.jpg

The end result, i.e., video and audio on the same channel, is the same, which is all I meant.

I know about the type of receiver you're talking about because I had the fortune of picking out and setting one up with my cousin. All devices plug in, one HDMI goes out to their HDTV. Very nice.

However, when you run out of HDMI inputs on the reciever - I made sure my cousin's had 5 or 6 - OR when you have to plug in a non-HDMI device that uses component or composite cables with separate digital optic audio, you have to connect them up so audio and video for that device are on the same channel. What's good about a single HDMI output receiver like you and my cousin have is you don't then have to route male-to-male composite or component cables from the receiver to the TV.

So HDMI's audio is really only useful for devices (especially HDMI-equipped devices) going into a receiver that's connected to a surround sound system. HDMI's audio going into the TV itself is kind of worthless, unless you want mediocre sound from the HDTV's built-in speakers.

Single connection AV for the win.

My AVR doesn't support HDMI but you can bet ur sweet arse my next one will have at least 4 HDMI inputs and I may spring for fancy upscaling on those HDMI and analog inputs as well.

Hell a mini with MDP--->HDMI into an AVR sounds pretty damn good. If I can't get Apple TV software I'll run Boxee dammit.

I'm not really a fan of the mini dvi and MDP. It's redundant really unless current gen MDP macs will NEVER be able to daisychain monitors.

1.) You cannot search your music files on the ATV's menus. "Search" is to buy in iTunes only.
You can search on an iPhone or iPod Touch but alas they do not come in the box.
2.) You cannot rip your DVDs like you can your CDs in iTunes. You can only either buy the movie in Itunes or go through the fucocktun procedure using Handbrake. So much for your personal DVD files.
3.) Scrolling your music files is harder then using a first gen iPod- enough said.

The Mac Mini alleviates all of the above problems.

That would not hide the chin - only give it a black chin.
New design please- IT"S 4 Years OLD already.

Ok, it would better hide the chin, i.e., make it less obvious.


No, it's not. The white iMacs that came before had boxy cases. The aluminum iMacs have tapered backs.

It's like saying the new aluminum MacBooks/Pros are in need of a redesign.

That's a valid complaint that I have a hard to believing is only possible with a paired iPhone/iPod touch. Hopefully that will be fixed in the future, but that's only one aspect and since, as you say, an iPhone/iPod touch isn't included in the box, I doubt many would want to deal with scrolling from letter to letter with the included remote if they could search their own content.


That's not Apple's problem and it doesn't make much sense as a complaint because...the Apple TV doesn't have a DVD player. Most people already have dedicated DVD players, often multiple thanks to them being built into most game consoles.

Also, one of the big selling points of Apple TV is renting movies you don't already own, which you can't do via Front Row.


How is scrolling through music on the Mac mini any easier?

I would not put it past Apple to introduce yet ANOTHER display connector sometime next year. Maybe they will call Micro DisplayPort. And the year after that, they will introduce Nano DisplayPort. While it would have been more sensible to make the absolute smallest possible connector for generations to come, the idea of constantly making a new connector every year would guarantee Apple a constant revenue stream for adapters.

That seems pointless. They've had dual-link DVI for years and only developed variations when necessary - mini-DVI for smaller laptops and only this past year did they introduce micro DVI for the ultra compact MacBook Air. Now all share Mini DisplayPort, which is smaller than all of those proprietary miniaturized versions of DVI. The fact even their Cinema Display uses Mini DisplayPort indicates the standard is here for the long haul.


They essentially did with mini-DVI. It just couldn't quite fit in the Air so they had to make a special one for that. Most people never hook up their laptop to an external display or projector, so Apple likely makes very little on adapters.

If other companies adopt Apple's mobile-friendly, royalty free, pin-identical version of the DisplayPort spec, adapters will be a thing of the past, at least until the next generation port standard comes along.

It's true that if iTunes could encode DVDs as simply as it encoded CDs, that life would be easier. It's a pity that Apple can't find a way to do it - but I think the studios have no interest in the slightest.

I certainly hope that Apple bridges the AppleTV & MacMini in some way this week.