Rumors fuel hopes for unibody 17-inch MacBook Pro

Now all of you 17" MacBook Pro whiners can stop whining that there is no 17" MBP rumors. Now you can whine about the lack of a removable battery instead! I say...let the bitching begin! I can see it now..."if its true I will not buy one!"

It will surprise me if it isn't removable. Not that I find it a big deal or anything, I've never in my life had more than one per laptop.

I think I would rather have a longer lasting battery and not be able to remove it. And even though I wouldn't be getting one, due to price, but it would be interesting to see.

I second that. I've had Mac laptops since about 2002, and never needed a second battery, but have needed to charge up the one battery I did have quite often.

On the rare occasions that I've had the battery run out I've been near a power socket, so...

Back on topic, I would love to swap my current MBP 17" 2.6GHz C2D Santa Rosa (Late 2007) model for a new one with the shiny black-edged screen. I used one of the 15-inch beauties the other day at the Apple Store and they're very very nice. Love the new glass trackpad and the unibody enclosure. (Can't justify swapping this one though, not when I'm buying a house!)

I usually carry 2 spare batteries, for a total of three, for my travels. While a non-removable battery isn't a big deal, Apple or a 3rd-party would most likely have to make a MagSafe connected external battery pack to make me a customer.

While having a "much longer" battery would be beneficial, I don't see what changes Apple could make that would have required a non-user replaceable battery. When I consider the MBP MoBo size, optical drive and HDD, the 17" MBP has the most available space for a battery, so I don't understand why they would have to make a super thin battery that would presumably slide between the chassis and other components.

Any ideas?

I would say maybe an ultra-thin notebook. Kind of like the MacBook Air...only with ports! Thus, needing to gain all the room they can and make a non-removable battery. Removable batteries can take up more space. If Apple can spread the battery across the entire product (like the MBA) they can get a larger battery in a small enclosure.

However...if it is an ultra-thin laptop you can pretty much kiss the idea of a quad-core 17" MBP goodbye. Maybe this is the real WOW factor from the other thread???

I don't see it as a bad thing either. I've owned a few Apple laptops and with the exception of my 500 MHz iBook, I have never removed the battery for a fresh one. To be honest, most of the time its plugged in while using it. The only reason I have one is because I travel between 2 school districts for work through out the week. Between the time when the 500 MHz iBook arrived and today, batterie technologies have improved greatly. Plus, if you take care of your battery it will last a long time.

Film makers and video editors out in the field have to have multiple batteries because there's nowhere to recharge the laptop most of the time.

So super-slim = super long battery life? Somehow the 2 don't exactly go hand in hand. I wonder what type of special sauce Apple's using. Or maybe it's really the same volume just flattened so it takes up the whole base of the laptop but is really thin.

This is where I see this rumour falling apart.

The 17" dimensions are mostly set in stone. We know the basic footprint of the next 17" MBP assuming they still use the same screen dimensions. So this means that the ultra thin battery would be a result of being between components (which would make the device thicker than it currently is) or by tapering the new MBP like the MBA (like you mention).

However, this pulls away from the current 15" MBP design unification which has been present with all the MBPs and introduces the issues that make the MBA a non-starter for many: inability to include an optical drive, inability to use a 2.5" HDD, inability to use more powerful CPUs and GPUs, and inability to add ports directly to the edge of the machine.

I think the 17" MBP would have to follow the 15" MBP design. Perhaps what is being reported is Apple branching the MBA into a larger machine, like a 15" MBA, but even that sounds highly suspect to me.

Perhaps this is where the longer battery life comes into play? Of course this only being a rumor, we don't know the specifics. So it could be 30 minutes longer, or 2hrs longer...who knows!

I agree...I don't think Apple would put all this time, money and effort, not mention all the hype from the unibody for a specific unibody enclosure just for the 15" MBP. If the rumor is true...there has to be a reason why Apple would do this.

I was just throwing something on the table with the ultra-thin thing.

I think this is the part where rumors just start coming out of the wood work about everything and anything just to stir things up. It happens every year!

Totally agree.

A non-removable battery only makes sense if the form factor is closer to the Air, which the rumour explicitly denies when it says that the new uni-body construction is being used. Makes no sense.

If the 17" is "MacBook Air-ified" I can see it selling well, but there are also large groups of people who buy the 17" (Hollywood), who actually need the horsepower. So this is either two products or a bold move either way if true.

Edit: It actually makes sense if the rumours about new battery technology are true. If they are using this, then a sealed chasis makes sense even if it's not like the Air. Still possibly a problem for Hollywood types though.

If Steve isn't hooked up somewhere like "Spock's Brain" running the company out of his cerebral cortex, and the goal is to begin to showcase the bench (Schiller, Ives, et. al), it's one thing to send them out to display their charisma deficits relative to the King of Cupertino.

It would be another to send them out without any real material of interest to announce. So even if no one more thing moment, maybe a cornucopia of announcements that would've been big news back when Apple was a computer company (you do remember those bygone days, don't you?).

I think investors and the biz press would be satisfied with a cascade of refreshes and redos. A complete revamp of the big boy laptop would be a good start. Pair that with new iMacs (mostly a refresh?), new MacMinis (major 'vamp in specs and purposing), new large screen monitors (refresh and new connectors), and lots of buzz-making over Snow Leopard -- which may be a more significant long-term strategicupgrade than Leopard and Tiger combined if they've really redone the plumbing rather than throwing more eye (or "i") candy at us.

I think consumers would reflect that satisfaction when they enter their friendly local Apple Stores as well and start enjoying Macs that to a greater extent than ever "just work." And businesses when they see TOC impacted by technologies like Open CL, Grand Central, etc.

Part of the mini-cornucopia could include memory and/or other small upgrades to Touches and Phones. People have mentioned a new shuffle, but what could be added except RAM at the price point and functionality -- some fussy teeny visual navigation?

And, won't happen, but I'd love to see a reversal and see a 13.3" notebook with the tiny addition of, yes, a frigging Firewire port. Let 'em call it a pro model and bump it up or whatever -- but this is their most premature abandonment of a tech they humped long and hard for which is nowhere near the end of its useful life.

So Phil and co. won't be sent out totally unarmed. And I think after all the small but good announcements there will also be plenty of candidates for another small one more thing.

Everyone says it won't be in the 6-10" range (see how I didn't say "netbook"?) so, OK. What about the so-called iP Nano, the "iPhone for the rest of us"? Well first, it would have to be an entirely new device since the Nano, Classic and Shuffle platforms are based on the old iPod OS, and how small a device can you efficiently touch text and accurately dial on? Never say never.

But something on the home front seems possible.

That is, as for the mini and Apple TV, the questions include whether they'll converge, merge or diverge. Apple 'b lovin' the iTunes Store, but is a hookup of convenience with another playah' like NetFlix or Tivo entirely out of the question? Especially if creates an "aura of inevitability" that Apple's coming to a living room near you? And because NetFlix hardware solutions are already popping up, while TIVO software's becoming a standard on settop boxes from many providers.

My point is there's plenty of room for plenty of mid-size and all welcome additions adding up to a successful '09 A, Inc. kickoff in the '09 keynote IDG kissoff.

(And is buying a company like NetFlix entirely out of the question? Apple now has demonstrated chops in both running brick and mortar ops and online content delivery.)

ZPower is developing Silver based battery technology that may be going into the machine. I say may due to coincidences in press releases.

If this is in fact true it would be excellent for Apple. It would eliminate the safety and quality issues that Lithium batteries have. Also since it appears that this is a production ramp for Apple they will likely have an exclusive deal for some time.

The big question of course is: is zPower the one. There are a lot of battery tech coming out of the labs right now. ZPower is the only one to make an announcement though. If things work out well I could see a rapid switch over at Apple.


Dave

I know this technology has been long talked up and never has come really to fruition. What if the new battery is some sort of fuell cell - no need to swap batteries, just refuell in seconds??

1) Even with the Ag battery tech, would that preclude the need or desire to have a removable battery in a fullsized pro notebook? Even if if were 12 hours or 24 hours I'd still carry a spare (price not withstanding) as some of my travels make finding an outlet difficult.

2) Is their evidence that Ag betteries should not be user replacable? I have read nothing on the tech that would suggest that the battery should not or could be used like current Li batteries.

3) Assuming #2 is not true, can we expect the 15" MBP, Apple's 2nx most popular notebook and most popular Pro machine, to get this new tech, as well?

ZPowers press release contraindicates with respect to a built in battery as they indicated that the mystery laptop would be dual battery tech capable. If the battery is built in I can't see why a battery charger for different chemisteries is required. The exception would be the battery going into only top of the line machines but even that would be a negative with respect to built batteries.

If the rumor is true and we are guessing at the right battery tech then I think Apple will put the new tech batteries in all 17" MBPs. It would be a huge marketing advantage.

The other thing here is that built in can mean all sorts of things. Apple could efectively change the design of the machine so that an access cover gives quick and easy access to the innereds. Ideally one cover would expose the battery, RAM and disk drive.

Tomorrow looks more interesting than many initially thought. This could be the sort of change the whole industry follows.


Dave

If this is their target group, maybe there will be a non-glossy version?

The same here.


This kind of pack would be a good solution indeed.

Maybe non-removable battery means factory replacement only, controlled recycling and a green label for Apple.

What if this rumour is true? If the next 17" MBP will use a 12 hour battery that lasts 5 years and is not user replaceable? This would mean that the only user access panel could be for the HDD, only. This would also mean that the MB and MBP port side (assuming they use the same basic design) could have ports going from the back to the front of the left side, instead of stopping at the Kensington lock port. This would quash the complaints of Apple reducing ports and potentially allo for more ports than are present on the current 17" MBP. Also, if Ag batteries are utilized in the MBP or the MB/MBP then that additional space could be utilized for more ports on those machines.

That would certainly be considerably more environmentally friendly, but I fear that Apple only cares about being green if it helps their bottom line.

For me it wouldn't be a problem. I only have one battery now. The suitability for such a battery arraingement is really up to the individual.

So what do you do now, carry 4 or 5 batteries around to get that operational time? I'm not sure you really have a good arguement here. Even if you only carry two batteries you would still have to charge them.

Which highlights your need for a portable recharging method.

If you believe all that ZPower has to say they would be safer. There may be other advantages with built in that we don't know about, but right now it could be an Apple thing.

Interesting is statements made in ZPowers press release that the batteries would go into laptops with chargers that support dual chemisteries. This would seem to indicate removalable batteries to me.

That is a very good question to which I can say - I don't know. Not very helpful but it will depend on many things such as the shape of the battery and the production ramp. Remember this is completely new tech and that can mean ramp glitches, Apple will not want to expose it's bread and butter machine to the tech until things are ramping smoothly and they are getting good field results. So I'd be surprised to see something in the 15" model in the first half of the year.

Of course if things go well that might not be the case. You also have the issue of weight and volume. I have read for detail yet but the batteries make much better use of their weight. That is a good thing, the bad thing is that I have found info on volume. If the battery is substantially bigger it won't provide much of an advantage in the 15" battery case. ZPowers reference to dual chemistery batter chargers does leave the question open.

I just hope there is truth here because it would be nice to see Apple go out with a bang at MWSF. This would be a significant change in the marketplace even if many don't get excited about batteries. People should though as this sort of tech can enable some pretty neat devices. Just imagine a tablet, iPhone or a netbook with these batteries. They have the potential of being both lighter and longer lasting.


Dave

The biggest reason they might want to make them non-replaceable by the user is the same reason iPod batteries aren't either. It's more environmentally sound that way.

The biggest drawback to the technology is the cost of the silver and the need to recycle said silver (and other things) from the battery when it's done. It's pretty much of a no-brainer that if the battery is not removable, less of them will end up in landfills at the end of the day. Apple is likely moving, like many consumer industries are to a 100% take-back program which will also help.

I have 3 batteries. I would carry more but weigh and bulk is a factor when traveling so 2 extra is my limit. If the battery was 12, 24 or even 48 hours I would still buy one extra spare battery. I would also consider scraping my 13" MB for a larger machine if it were not offered on the 13" model.

As of now, when I need to keep the brightness down and keep turning off WiFi when not using it so save juice so I can go a full day when traveling or, even more extreme, when I go many days without being to connect to a power source and have to space out my battery usage to the extreme. The extra juice would allow me to use it more like i do when I'm plugged or at least near a power source.

(I know my usage is entirely abnormal, but that is why i would welcome such a long battery and still carry a spare)

While Au is risen considerably during these economic times, Ag seems to still be very cheap. I'm seeing 08.72¢ an ounce.

Guess they're not too worried about possible legislation in Europe then

Destined for the "dumb-ass law hall of fame" certainly.

I know that this was not really alluded to in the write up here on appleinsider, but the 9 to 5 and macrumors write ups sounded to me like this may be an additional battery, not the sole battery. If that were the case that would make for some very long time between needing an outlet with a couple extra batteries, as the system wouldnt lose power when switching. So maybe this batter IS targeted at on site film work where they dont always have power for a laptop or two, but with 2-3 batteries you can swap and keep working without sleeping/shutting down.

The 17" is primarily marketed towards media professionals. Media professionals generally use devices that offer quick battery swapping for a reason. Unless they make a consumer 17" notebook, I don't see them locking out the ability to swap batteries with a couple latches.


But why didn't they do that with the new MacBooks & MacBook Pros?


Given that there is plenty of value in the materials, I would think that printing a notice about the value of the materials within on the hidden side of the battery would be good enough to cover the issue of people dumping them. If they knew there was a recoverable deposit or other way to get money from a dead battery, I don't think they would dump the battery so quickly.

How is "readily removed" defined? The iPhone 3G's battery requires 2 readily accessible screws to be removed, which is easier than removing most watch batteries.


That doesn't seem to be a good law for notebooks. For cellphones and other small handhelds I can see some sense to it, but even then it seems somewhat ill-conceived.

For instance, I assume that the reason for the la is so people don't throw their device into a landfill, but to make it work you will need to have drop off locations that are so convenient that people will take the take to make the effort. If you have these drop off locations, then why not allow people to just drop off their broken iPods and iPhones that they were going to drop into a landfill. Not only are getting to recycle the battery that they were going to throw in the trash, but the other parts of the device that also going to the landfill and that contain elements not appropriate for landfill.

Am I missing something here?

Adding a RAIDed HDD and additional battery in place of the optical drive would be ideal for me, but that sounds too good to be to true.

And, what's wrong with that? Much of the time, the two goals are not in conflict: 'Green' versus 'bottom line' is often a strawman.

Independent of that, any profit-making, shareholder value-maximizing company can be expected to be sustainably green (no pun intended) only when the objective of 'doing good' is consistent with the objective of 'doing well.'

WEEE legislation already exists in Europe (Waste Electrical and Electronic Equipment Directive)

"The directive imposes the responsibility for the disposal of waste electrical and electronic equipment on the manufacturers of such equipment. Those companies should establish an infrastructure for collecting WEEE, in such a way that "Users of electrical and electronic equipment from private households should have the possibility of returning WEEE at least free of charge". Also, the companies are compelled to use the collected waste in an ecologically-friendly manner, either by ecological disposal or by reuse/refurbishment of the collected WEEE."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waste_E...ment_Directive

&

http://ec.europa.eu/environment/waste/weee/index_en.htm

Im certainly hoping we see this

_______________________

Yeah. Good point. The US is really falling behind on some of these issues.......

Can't quite agree with you there.

Having spent quite a bit of time on commercial shoots and now after a long haul in China, if anything, filming even in the wilds is more than equipped to handle a simple thing as recharging a laptop battery.

Lighting alone requires significant power generation. There is always a power source. And if needed there is always a car's cigarette lighter around.

I have bought about a dozen Mac laptops over the years and always with a spare. The only time I have ever had to use a spare was on a long flight with no external power source. But that was years ago. Today, virtually every oversea's or cross-country flight has a spot to plug in.

However, I still buy a spare. Just last month, my 16-month old Macbook Pro battery began to die. Took it in and Apple replaced it free of charge; I don't buy the extended Apple Care. After 24 years, never had had to use it even if I did. Now I just have to remember to "Exercise [my] machine" http://www.apple.com/batteries/

Having a close relationship with Apple store staffs, one of the least selling accessories is (spare) batteries. I always suggest to my students and clients, that besides the Magsafe power adapter, to have a cigarette power converter with them. Many a time I just plugged my Macbook in a cab between calls or on the way to the airport (even in the orient) and now it is on me all the time as I routinely use it to keep my iPhone fully charged as well.

Now I am hoping that my slim mobile inverter will fit nicely in the new MacCase Flight Jackets. http://mac-case.com/Leather%20Site/B...acketOpen.html

Well if you think you have to I won't stop you. I do wonder how you avoid carrying around discharged batteries all the time. Generally it is not good to leave a battery in a discharged state for to long.

Well that is what we would hope for . It might be better than we suspect though, that is depending on what other new tech Apple can roll into the machine.

Switching to improved LED backlighting might be a given but they could surprise use with an OLED screen. Either would lower power relative to the old screen. The manufactures have made great strides in white light LEDs for back lighting. They could drop Firewire to save power there too. Other chips like Bluetooth have been power improved with new models. Given what we have seen in the smaller MBP I don't think a doubling of run time is impossible.

Even for my usage I'd welcome it. Let's face it this could be revolutionary as to evolutionary. Especially if Apple where to roll out quickly to cell phones, tablets and whatever else they have up their sleeve.

People here give me a hard time about loving my iPhone. Which I admit I do, the thing is I recognize a lot of faults in the little guy. One of those is runtime on the current battery. A higher capacity & lighter battery is or will be a big win here. Especially if they address processor performance at the same time. In any event if this new battery tech pans out I could see it driving a lot of products from Apple.


Dave

I tend to agree this is possible. However, this would be a refocus for Apple on filling in the gaps and omissions in their line... and I do feel they sometimes miss this, thus perhaps I'm just wishfully thinking.

So.. forget the "oh my god that's amazing" announcements (New 8" Laptop/NetiBook, 6" iPhone/iPad), and go for all the evolutionary upgrades.

As you say...
* 17" MacBookPro unibody
* remove the plastic MacBook and drop prices on the lowend MacBook Unibody
* iMacs with NVIDEA
* MacMini upgrade and AppleTV booster

Such 'boring' upgrades would have been extremely disappointing from Steve. Except perhaps the AppleTV - but no matter how good, an AppleTV upgrade could be framed as "Apple tries for a TV replacement once again... perhaps 3rd times a charm?"... and I think a PhilNote might avoid that to a degree.

In fact... one of Steve's strategies has always been to understate what he was announcing, so that the rumour sites and press would be the ones talking the product up. Comments along the line of "we have a little something we hope you'll like". But the SteveNotes have become such a big thing that that is lost. Perhaps the more limited announcements have made Steve decide a PhilNote is a good way to play down expectations.

It is a pain to have to keep changing batteries in planes, trains and automobiles. The new MacBooks don't require a coin to do it, but the removable access panel does mean I have to put that thin piece of bendable aluminium somewhere while I make the switch. I am always fearful I'm going to bend it out of shape by accident. Charging is just tedious with any Mac as I have to keep switching out once I charge them.

There is one charger for the older MB batteries, but it's large and expensive. I would have ideally liked to have had a power pass-through charger that will allow me to power and charge my Mac while having a battery sitting in a small cradle being recharged as well. This would also allow me to not carry an additional PS for the charger as consolidation of equipment is a priority for me.


That would be an excellent place for this battery tech. I'll get a new iPhone immediately if they update the iPhones next week with this new tech.

As for the faults of the iPhone, it has many but I can't wholeheartedly list the battery duration as one of them. While I drain my battery quickly from my excessive use, it is the excessive use that the is the catalyst of the battery drain.