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Liberal Media Bias - Ann Coulter Drinking Game Version - Page 7

post #241 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I've already done part of the work for you. You claimed the criticism didn't start until after Bush was out of office and I showed I was criticizing before they had even lost the Congress.

Be your own search slave. I know what I post thank you and if you contend different then offer your own proof.

An elegant dodge. No, really, you have some winning-an-argument-on-the-internet smarts.

You've just had eight years of corrupt, spending like money was about to be abolished Republican government and now all of a sudden these things are supposed to characterise Democrats, and this is Really Terrible.

It's a bit like arguing with a young earther, arguing with you. You actually don't really care about the arguments, or even the facts so much. You're prepared to say anything to preserve the ideological underpinnings of your world view. When it gets tough you write irrelevancies, or try and upset the chess board.
post #242 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

IYou you you... blah...blah..blah... caricature...caricature...caricature.

Whines the man who started a blog viciously caricaturing a real live member of this board under the real name of the member in question.

Anything to win an argument. Anything at all.
post #243 of 253
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

An elegant dodge. No, really, you have some winning-an-argument-on-the-internet smarts.

Actually if I had real winning an argument on the internet smarts, I'd personalize and argument and then bitch that the person won't prove the bad things about himself for me.

Quote:
You've just had eight years of corrupt, spending like money was about to be abolished Republican government and now all of a sudden these things are supposed to characterise Democrats, and this is Really Terrible.

Caricatures do not an argument make. If a half a trillion dollar a year deficit is "spending like money is going to be abolished" then how does that justify a deficit of two trillion in a year, followed by two years of trillion dollar deficits and finally some awesome belt tightening down to the same half trillion dollar a year deficit?

Oh I forgot, that plan which has deficits of up to 400% more is "ambitious" because it is from Obama. I also forgot that when the claimed reasoning for those Bush deficits, the war and tax cuts will be gone in 2012 and you still have the same or larger deficits under Obama as part of his ambitious plan that is now awesome, cool and yes, ambitious again.

How full of shit does an argument have to be? The claimed causes will all be gone and the effect will now be even larger problematic effects. This must be bizarro world.

Quote:
It's a bit like arguing with a young earther, arguing with you. You actually don't really care about the arguments, or even the facts so much. You're prepared to say anything to preserve the ideological underpinnings of your world view. When it gets tough you write irrelevancies, or try and upset the chess board.

Maybe arguing with me is like arguing with me and not a caricature you are trying to construct. The numbers up above are real. Calling the person noting the numbers names or noting that those numbers and ones 400% higher were not acceptable in the past isn't a caricature either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

Whines the man who started a blog viciously caricaturing a real live member of this board under the real name of the member in question.

Anything to win an argument. Anything at all

Stay off the hard stuff and stick with the wine and beer.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #244 of 253
post #245 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

This must be bizarro world.

Bizarro World is blaming the next person for things that occurred on the previous person's watch.

It's like blaming a head on collision on the police and EMT's that showed up after the fact of said head on collision.

Note that fiscal year 2009 is Bush's last fiscal year, that being the last fiscal year Bush submitted a budget to Congress.

Therefore, all fiscal year 2009 red ink goes on Dubya's ledger.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #246 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Bizarro World is blaming the next person for things that occurred on the previous person's watch.

It's like blaming a head on collision on the police and EMT's that showed up after the fact of said head on collision.

Note that fiscal year 2009 is Bush's last fiscal year, that being the last fiscal year Bush submitted a budget to Congress.

Therefore, all fiscal year 2009 red ink goes on Dubya's ledger.


They would have done it to Clinton!

And they did.

Just the bad stuff of course. The rest was because of the republican congress.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #247 of 253
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent View Post

Bizarro World is blaming the next person for things that occurred on the previous person's watch.

It's like blaming a head on collision on the police and EMT's that showed up after the fact of said head on collision.

Note that fiscal year 2009 is Bush's last fiscal year, that being the last fiscal year Bush submitted a budget to Congress.

Therefore, all fiscal year 2009 red ink goes on Dubya's ledger.

The stimulus package reopened that budget and added the stimulus for this year to it. The spending and rate changes will happen with your taxes for this year. If this year weren't reopened, then the soonest the changes in tax rate could take effect would be FY 2010. Instead it will happen by April.

I don't have to blame the head on collision on the EMT's and police, but when their solution to the head on collision problem is to put all the injured on a couple buses and run them into each other head on, I'm allowed to question their reasoning.

When the solution to half billion dollar deficit is two trillion dollar deficits, that should be questioned.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #248 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The stimulus package reopened that budget and added the stimulus for this year to it. The spending and rate changes will happen with your taxes for this year. If this year weren't reopened, then the soonest the changes in tax rate could take effect would be FY 2010. Instead it will happen by April.

I don't have to blame the head on collision on the EMT's and police, but when their solution to the head on collision problem is to put all the injured on a couple buses and run them into each other head on, I'm allowed to question their reasoning.

When the solution to half billion dollar deficit is two trillion dollar deficits, that should be questioned.


But it's not just the solution to the deficit we're discussing is it?

As Paul Krugman says we must get the credit in the banks flowing again, create jobs, and replace consumer confidence or this can get much worse. Tackle one problem at a time. No one said it would be easy as this is quite a pickle that the previous administration has helped to create.

He also says we're at a point that just simply doing what we should have been doing all along won't work because of the liquidity trap.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #249 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The stimulus package reopened that budget and added the stimulus for this year to it. The spending and rate changes will happen with your taxes for this year. If this year weren't reopened, then the soonest the changes in tax rate could take effect would be FY 2010. Instead it will happen by April.

I don't have to blame the head on collision on the EMT's and police, but when their solution to the head on collision problem is to put all the injured on a couple buses and run them into each other head on, I'm allowed to question their reasoning.

When the solution to half billion dollar deficit is two trillion dollar deficits, that should be questioned.

Just like the gross debt ceiling was raised $1.5 trillion in 2008.

It was raised another $0.789 trillion on February 17, 2009, from $11.315 trillion to $12.104 trillion.

So that's basically $2.289 trillion put upon the Republican's failed economic policies of the past.

Way to go Republicans, leave it up to the Democrats, to ...

[CENTER]... Fix it![/CENTER]

Which is as I predicted several months ago, as in p = 1.

We all know who was at the wheel at the time of the accident.

We also know that to do nothing, was not an option, for anyone who was elected to succeed Dubya.

We know from past experiences, that Dubya would have done something in the form of a tax cut, that past track record is there for all those to see. He wanted to make the tax cuts perminent, and still spend like the drunkard he was, is, and will be for evermore.

The world will end tomorrow, if not tomorrow, than the next day, if not the next day, than the next day after that, ...

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #250 of 253
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

But it's not just the solution to the deficit we're discussing is it?

As Paul Krugman says we must get the credit in the banks flowing again, create jobs, and replace consumer confidence or this can get much worse. Tackle one problem at a time. No one said it would be easy as this is quite a pickle that the previous administration has helped to create.

He also says we're at a point that just simply doing what we should have been doing all along won't work because of the liquidity trap.

The cause of the recession is over-consumption and excessive credit. You do not fix that by printing or borrowing up a couple trillion dollars to plug the gap between the height of the economy during that bubble and where it will be after it pops and adjusts away those excesses.

You do understand that is the Krugman argument. Make the pain go away by borrowing the bubble back into existence?

We can fix the over-consumption of today by borrowing from the consumption of the future. We can have the excess today by asking the future to do with less.

That is the boomer blind-spot. They will ask the grandchildren to absorb the pain they cannot tolerate. Why can they not tolerate it? That is the question we are not allowed to ask. It is screamed that we must do SOMETHING, rather than nothing. But the solution to over-consumption and excess credit cannot be to do more of the same. It is like declaring that the solution to lack of mobility due to obesity is to have the grandchildren construct a wagon to pull your fat ass around in while they hand you more to eat.

A free buffet won't stimulate one to eat more in such a scenario. The reason we have a claimed liquidity trap is not due to lack of credit but lack of desire to spend ourselves into more debt. The people who are broke can't get better terms on being broke and those not broke don't need better terms because they don't want more debt. Those are generalities of course but as the Austrian Critique notes...

Economists of the Austrian school challenge the idea that Japan experienced a liquidity trap, contending instead that it suffered from the bust portion of a business cycle brought on by monetary inflation, which could only be cured by allowing the bust to liquidate the malinvestments made during the boom. Austrians contend that busts are necessary corrections to booms and that artificial credit expansion or other government interference will only make the bust longer or delay an even bigger bust. Thus, they blame Japan's rigorous government interference in the market for causing the bust to last throughout the decade. [4]

It is clear to me and should be to you, that our ever expanding series of bubbles and the attempt to manage them is proof of that critique. We've been managing this bubble every since the end of Bretton Woods.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #251 of 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The cause of the recession is over-consumption and excessive credit. You do not fix that by printing or borrowing up a couple trillion dollars to plug the gap between the height of the economy during that bubble and where it will be after it pops and adjusts away those excesses.

You do understand that is the Krugman argument. Make the pain go away by borrowing the bubble back into existence?

We can fix the over-consumption of today by borrowing from the consumption of the future. We can have the excess today by asking the future to do with less.

That is the boomer blind-spot. They will ask the grandchildren to absorb the pain they cannot tolerate. Why can they not tolerate it? That is the question we are not allowed to ask. It is screamed that we must do SOMETHING, rather than nothing. But the solution to over-consumption and excess credit cannot be to do more of the same. It is like declaring that the solution to lack of mobility due to obesity is to have the grandchildren construct a wagon to pull your fat ass around in while they hand you more to eat.

A free buffet won't stimulate one to eat more in such a scenario. The reason we have a claimed liquidity trap is not due to lack of credit but lack of desire to spend ourselves into more debt. The people who are broke can't get better terms on being broke and those not broke don't need better terms because they don't want more debt. Those are generalities of course but as the Austrian Critique notes...

Economists of the Austrian school challenge the idea that Japan experienced a liquidity trap, contending instead that it suffered from the bust portion of a business cycle brought on by monetary inflation, which could only be cured by allowing the bust to liquidate the malinvestments made during the boom. Austrians contend that busts are necessary corrections to booms and that artificial credit expansion or other government interference will only make the bust longer or delay an even bigger bust. Thus, they blame Japan's rigorous government interference in the market for causing the bust to last throughout the decade. [4]

It is clear to me and should be to you, that our ever expanding series of bubbles and the attempt to manage them is proof of that critique. We've been managing this bubble every since the end of Bretton Woods.

Listen I think I understood him quite well And I think your interpretation falls far short of the mark. In that lecture I went to he went into considerable detail of why he thinks we have to start these programs ( " When you just give away money you're just out the money. When you pay someone to build a bridge you've got a bridge " ). Those programs cost money. It's got to come from somewhere. Obama isn't just giving away money. That's only seeing part of the picture. Yes the tax burden will be shifted so that the top will be paying more than they have. They have so many loopholes and ways to dodge taxes I'm really thinking what it will matter to them is numbers on a sheet not bread on the table like it would be for most of us.

As I've stated before just doing the right thing now won't work according to Krugman. He was quite clear on the subject.

Quote:
They will ask the grandchildren to absorb the pain they cannot tolerate.

Hmmm? Was Dubya and company worrying about this when years ago the left on this forum brought up this very same fact about the future they were creating?

Yes piling up that much debt may cause problems down the road but right now we have no choice. This isn't some simple recession like we've seen. Krugman was quite clear about that as well. Think more in terms of the 1930's ( although he did say he didn't think this was a depression or that it would turn into one but that was the magnitude we're looking at ) We don't have a WWII to pull us out ( and god knows that's not really desireable ) so we have to create a similar engine for generating a turnaround. It will only get much worse and linger for years on it's own if we don't.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #252 of 253
Paraphrase from memorey:
Quote:
Defecits don't matter
-Dick
Cheney
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #253 of 253
Thread Starter 
NYPost
Quote:
HE top suits and some of the on-air talent at CNBC were recently ordered to a top-secret meeting with General Electric CEO Jeffrey Immelt and NBC Universal President Jeff Zucker to discuss whether they've turned into the President Obama-bashing network, Page Six has learned.

"It was an intensive, three-hour dinner at 30 Rock which Zucker himself was behind," a source familiar with the powwow told us. "There was a long discussion about whether CNBC has become too conservative and is beating up on Obama too much. There's great concern that CNBC is now the anti-Obama network. The whole meeting was really kind of creepy."

You know normally I wouldn't post information from anonymous sources but some people on here told me that when it fits what I IMAGINE, might be said, that I should just run with it as a fact.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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