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Palm surprises with Pre smartphone running new webOS - Page 4

post #121 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I love how they list that as a feature!! It is like they have the only phone that uses it and everyone wants removable battery. However, the only smartphone that does not have a removable battery is currently the second best selling smartphone (in the US at least). How weird!!

everyone I know who has an iPhone loves the battery life so much they've never missed the lack of removable batter, especially since none of them have had to pull it out to reset the device ever.

I have to pull the battery out of my blackberry almost daily, & battery life is horrible.

At this point removable battery to me says, "cause we knew you'd have to take it out a lot."
post #122 of 210
What demonstration did you see the Pre doing everything the iPhone can do?

Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.

Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Last question.

Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.

Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.

The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.
post #123 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Well the OS kicks the iPhones ass out of the water. The hardware looks dated, too thick, too small and physical slide out keyboard just adds bulk. It doesn't look sleek or different from all the other clones out there.

Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?

So, you meant it kicks iPhone OS 1.0?
post #124 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

What demonstration did you see the Pre doing everything the iPhone can do?

Primairly what I saw was a demonstration of its UI and browser. I haven't seen the Pre running any 3rd party apps or games. I haven't even seen anyone make a phone call on the Pre.

Not to say the Pre cannot do these things, but you are saying it beats the iPhone without actually seeing it in full use.

& web browsing is dramatically effected by network, which sprint does have the fastest.
post #125 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Did no one catch the (webOS) part, & that it is built on java script & modern web standards? Can anyone remember another mobile phone that entered the market with only web standards & java to support 3rd party apps?

So, you meant it kicks iPhone OS 1.0?

They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.
post #126 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

They said the sdk will special APIs that will allow access to all of the hardware features. Palm has planned on devs having full access to the thing. Hello? Palm is not asleep anymore if you haven't noticed.

Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.

Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.
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post #127 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Right. A demo of a single product at least six months from shipping certainly proves that Palm is utterly transformed and that the last 6 years or so of lethargy and drift are completely behind them.

Anyone who isn't entirely convinced that Palm is the new god of cell phones just obviously isn't paying attention.

No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.

If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.
post #128 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

No dude you don't get it. Its not one company is a god and then another. Its that Palm has thrown an impossible hail mary pass and the receiver caught it!
If......and I say IF Palm is able to execute successfully within the next six months then Palm is going to be back in the game.

If this happens I see android becoming number three behind Palm. Well, what I can at least say for sure is that RIM will not be in the top two by the end of this year. I see them being third or even fourth in sales. And poor microsoft? They will be in last place behind nokia and symbian.

Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.

Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.
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post #129 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Well, dude, what you've seen is a video demo on the internet, and you're ready to proclaim the Pre some kind of fantastic new paradigm of phone tech that eclipses all that has come before and brings Apple trembling to their knees, etc.

Which seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off.

Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.

I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.

Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"
post #130 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Do you remember everyone's attitudes were back in 2007? I remember Ballmer having a similar attitude to yours now. What 2007 should have taught people was that you shouldn't underestimate anyone.

I tell you what......any company today that is a competitor to palm is not going to say "seems a little premature, is what I'm saying. In that you've never touched one and have no idea how it performs outside of some stuff Palm chose to show off." .........at least not internally.
They may say that externally to the press but internally they will be running back to the labs.

Do you REALLY think other companies are actually going to wait MONTHS to see if Palm is going to be successful or not? Idiot Ballmer made that mistake and now look.
I betcha Steve Jobs is running back to the labs right now with a whip lashing his staff...."WORK F A S T E R ! ! !"

I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.

The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.

And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.

Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?
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post #131 of 210
bad ass as it looks and sounds it should do really well for Palm and is the first innovative challenger to step up to the iphone in my opinion.

I think the use of javascript/html/etc for the apps/os is brilliant as far as critical third party development for the platform, access to open source web development and internal development and maintenance for the OS/browser tech. The interface looks to be focused on simplicity, form and function via Rubinstein. If it's priced right and performs then it's an out of the park grand slam for palm.

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post #132 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Again, people aren't going to pony up for "features" in software when they can be replicated on other handsets which have other advantages or which cost less. Integrated messaging isn't a software suite like iLife or a next gen game-- the kind of platform specific, very difficult to replicate thing that might dictate hardware choices.

If it looks like this is a useful feature, to enough people, that can be implemented well, I would guess that Apple or a third party would develop something. No doubt Google is looking at the Pre as well.

OTOH, until we get a chance to actually use such a feature, it's hard to say. Devil's in the details, as always.

People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..

if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.

As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).
post #133 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.

The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.

And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.

Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?

Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.
post #134 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

People ponied up for the iphone and it did not have any features not available elsewhere.. in fact, it had less features... it cannot do flash, no cut and paste... other than apple ease of use, what did the iphone have?.. nothing..

if integrated messaging is so easy, why hasn't apple done it?.. maybe it's as easy as cut and paste?.. (that was sarcasm). Google, apple could look at integrated message all they want.. just like lots of phone now have touch screens and accelermeter and pinching, etc.. that hasn't stopped the iphone from selling has it?. two years and apple still can't do cut and paste.. what makes you think they smart enough to do integrated messaging?.

As for me, i can't wait. I plan to be one of the first to get the pre. I'll have integrated message and cut and paste while you waste your breath shouting to the world about how iphone cudda do this and that and the mighty jobs has decided his followers don't need it (i wonder why after two years, people still talking about cut and paste.. thought that argument was settled by the mighty steve a long time ago).

I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.

The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.
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post #135 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Because steve is not as stupid as Ballmer. Everyone thought the iphone itself was not revolutionary and on it wasn't. The iphone did not introduce any new revolutionary features. Did not allow people to do something on a phone they could not do before. If Steve jobs is as dumb as you, then he deserves to have his hat handed to him. The cell phone market is cutthroat.. just ask Nokia and Samsung and Motorola.. remember the Razr?.. when it came out, everyone wanted one.. that thing was everywhere.. motorola sat on it's fat ass, thinking that they did not have to innovate anymore.. one thing i know, Steve jobs is not as stupid as you.. (and not as stupid as motorola execs).. in the cell phone market, one day you are hot, the next, you are yesterday's news. Palm would love apple to sit on their asses and think palm is not a threat to them. If apple did that, palm would throw a celebratory party.

If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.
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post #136 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

If you think the relevant example is the Razr you're either 16 or too stupid to bother with.

Yes i think the razr is a relevant example because it was popular. I was not trying to find a PDA to compare the iphone with.. i was merely comparing popularity and i haven't been 16 for a long, long time.. in fact, i am older than 32, so i am flattered you think i look like 16 (sarcasm in case you don't recognize). The original statement was stupid on it's face.. every pda is a threat to apple. I know this is difficult for apple fans to grasp but not everyone wants an iphone (and price has nothing to do with it). I know someone making 200,000 a year and he does not want an iphone.. i make substantial myself and can afford 10 iphones but don't want one. To me, the iphone is limiting. I like the synery concept palm created. I like the integrated messaging. I like the pull out keyboard (i know people with iphones and have used theirs.. the onscreen keyboard is not my thing).

Now, some people will always like the iphone.. as an example, i have an ipod.. i love my ipod.. i am not even willing to try other music players because the ipod does it for me.. that is same for other people in relation to the iphone.. for me, the iphone does not do it.. the lack of cut and paste really turned me off. The lack of flash support also turned me off. I like the stuff mentioned in the pre.. i presume palm will bring those features to the pre when released (or else it was pretty stupid to talk about features they not planning to release). I like those features. My friend who makes over 200,000.. he also likes the features. He plans to get one. Many people who own iphones are not apple fans (i think this is like an elementary truth).. they can be easily be persuaded to switch.. they are not as vested as the old timers in apple survival. A friend i know, whoose family is well off and buys the latest gadgets plans to get one (although he's not a good example, he just like new shiny toys). The point is, this market is not mature. Palm pre does have something the iphone and no other phone has, the integrated messaging.. talking about how the iphone could implement this is just talk.. All i know, is that the pre is implementing it and it will also have cut and paste and they will not restrict what apps could be developed for the pre.. good enough for me.
post #137 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.

The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.

The same way you feel right now is the same way others felt when rumors of the iphone was out before the iphone was released.. apple fans were salivating about getting an iphone without even knowing what it looked like.. it baffled other people.. now it's your turn to be baffled.

I am anti-fanboy because it is dangerous.. i have an ipod and only buy apple computers for my home because i find value in those products not because i worship the ground steve walks on.. i cannot find one apple fanboy (not one) that can admit that the lack of cut and paste is stupid on apple part. Like apple produts should not blind you to their faults. Not saying you should not buy an iphone (heck, i bought a treo 700p and it sucks but at least i am not licking palm boots). Get a brain, think for yourself. This is my only gripe against fan-boys.. think for yourself..

i would respect your more if you said.. "i love the iphone even though it does not have cut and paste but i understand why that is a deal breaker for some". Instead, fanboys all over the net are busy trying to persuade the rest of the sane population that cut and paste is useeless.. maybe applee should remove cut and paste from macOSX altogether.. i mean, whatever will we use it for?. Why even have an operating system with cut and paste right?.
post #138 of 210
Let me ask you a question addabox... don't you find it odd that two years after the iphone, people still mention the lack of cut and paste?. if it made sense, wouldn't the issue have died a long time ago?.. even iphone users mention the lack of cut and paste.. what does that tell you?.. two years man.. two years!!!!! and people still talking about cut and paste.. apple should just implement the damn thing to shut people up.. but steve, no, his damn ego too big to admit he made a mistake.
post #139 of 210
Im new to the forums, but i just wanna share my opinions to whoever wishes to read them.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.

I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.

I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.
post #140 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I'm actually not quite sure what you're saying here, but the fact that that Ballmer underestimated the iPhone and that the iPhone went on to be very successful does not mean that every subsequent product introduction in the smart phone space has to be treated as if it were the Next Big Thing That Everybody Has To Copy Lest They Die. Ballmer dissed the iPhone because that's what Ballmer does, the iPhone was successful because it was innovative, powerful and easy to use, and because it benefited from iPod/iTunes Store, and later the App Store, tie ins.

The iPhone entered a market without an iPhone. The Pre doesn't have that luxury.

And it's pretty clear that Apple has a long term plan for the iPhone, as a device and as a platform. I seriously doubt that the appearance of any given new shiny has Jobs or his people in any particular frenzy.

Really, I'm having a hard time understanding what it is you're seeing in the demoes that has you so convinced that there's been some kind of seismic shift in the cell phone world. Palm has shown another touch screen phone with some nice UI touches. Why in the world would you imagine that that would have Apple, or Google, or anyone on the defensive?

Why? Because Jon Rubenstein is taking advantage of the competition's weaknesses and have raised the bar. Those nice UI touches as you call them are not touches at all and are brilliant ideas.
Did any of you think Palm was going to debut an OS such as this? Everybody thought it was going to be the old palm OS with a few new features and then watch in horror as the ceo committed suicide on stage or something.
I just DON'T see Apple expecting what they saw at Palm's keynote. And I don't think Apple was planning on doing any multitasking with the iphone OS.

And lets say that a few months for now Apple does do multitasking with the iphone and with such, they come up with a way to navigate similar to the pre's "cards" feature. That would mean Apple...yes APPLE would be playing catch up! Over the last several years Apple has not been the one catching up.....others were.

And then there is Palm's synergy.
post #141 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.

The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.

I don't know about the others but I'm not assuming anything! And I'm not taking sides either.
Palm still has to execute and it should be an interesting several months. Like the iphone 1.0 though, the Palm Pre will launch with some disadvantages. Just like the iphone 1.0 the pre will launch with......8GB of storage. 8 gigs was great in 2007 for a debut iphone but this is 2009.
for 2009 8 gigs will just not cut it. And get this, the pre does NOT have expandable memory unlike past palm products.

That is a MISTAKE imo. And something that might bite them in the butt down the line.
I think they are copying Apple's playbook a bit too much. If they debuted with 1 gig...yes one gig of storage but have expandable memory then they would have a killer product. But people will have to wait for a 2nd gen model if they want more storage.

I would be shouting at Jon Rubenstein about this if I had the opportunity.

EDIT: Dang, the original iphone debuted with 4 gigs right? Wow, two years goes by fast.
post #142 of 210
By the way, what the heck is an "anti-fanboy"?
post #143 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMatatan View Post

Im new to the forums, but i just wanna share my opinions to whoever wishes to read them.
I believe apple noticed the flaw in their OS design and the iPhones hardware capabilities, they didnt calculate the amount of hardware power they needed in order to provide its users with the features they wanted and more for the years to come. The flaw that didnt allow them to implement features and still provide great battery life and fluid and easy user experience from their hardware and OS. I believe this because of the simple features that are not on the iphone.

I believe that apple has worked out a way to cut and paste, and for integrated sms, mms and IM and the rest of the features iphone users want. The only problem is that the current hardware limitation on the current iphone dont allow the software features that we want. Because of the hardware of the current iphone, apple believes its not worth the trouble to make a cripple phone, have crippled features. Dont get me wrong i believe the current iphone is powerful, but its not capable to provide apple the resources it needs in order for them to add what we want and more.

I believe apple has made everything that we want and much more, but are testing it on their next upcoming phone device. Also the reason why they haven't released their promised and past due Push Notification System is because the whole badge alert idea was not worth the trouble on the current phone, so they improved the whole idea and will probably release it for their next phone device with a much better Notification System.

Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.
post #144 of 210
I belive that apple has something new, something so big that its making them ignore the request of iphone users. I hope apple is listening to the request of features and implement them on a device in a way that would make me buy it from day one. I will wait and see what happens, but the Palm Pre has me wishing i had one. Its either the Pre or the next iphone, whichever suites and impresses me more.
post #145 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think it's amazing that the same people that can't shut up about "fan boys" and imagine that anyone that doesn't agree with them about the relative value of Apple products are members of a cult can be so indiscriminately fanboyish. And all in the same post, which takes real effort.

The way you're coming in your pants over a device that you've only every seen a few demoes of make the average Apple enthusiast look like a model of sober restraint. But, then again, it's always been the "anti-fanboys" that have been the most hysterical.

I forgot all about the multitasking. That made me drool also. It's not the demo that makes me drool, it's the listed features. The demo just showed the phone ease of use so for me, this phone will have ease of use combined with some sweet features.. ability to run multiple programs at once, check. Integrated messaging, check, multi touch screen, check, physical keyboard, check. can play music, videos, take pictures, do what other phones do, check.
post #146 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Yeah I also believe iphone 3.0 will be just as you say. But I'm just not used to seeing someone other than Apple debut a product that is superior.
Palm beat them to the punch with the multitasking. I know iphone 3.0 will be superior but its just that it needs to be WAY SUPERIOR for Apple to keep the reputation of skating to where the puck is going to be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMatatan View Post

I belive that apple has something new, something so big that its making them ignore the request of iphone users. I hope apple is listening to the request of features and implement them on a device in a way that would make me buy it from day one. I will wait and see what happens, but the Palm Pre has me wishing i had one. Its either the Pre or the next iphone, whichever suites and impresses me more.

I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, faster processor, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.
post #147 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I think Palm choose the worst time to release their new phone. My prediction with the next iPhone (hardware wise) are HD video recording (better camera), 802.11n, front camera, and longer battery life. These are the only things I can think of in term of hardware.

There is no worse time to release a new phone. It's done all the time and this new phone will still do stuff the new iphone will not do (multitasking anyone?). might sound like a minor feature to you but imagine if your apple computer could not multitask but windows could... you'd switch to windows in a heartbeat. I predict after the pre, people will not be able to imagine living in a world where phones do not multitask becuase i gurantee you.. palm will see sales forcing all other handset makers to implement multitask just like apple has forced all handset makers to implement multi-touch (and multi task is a way bigger feature than multi-touch).
post #148 of 210
So is there any reason to believe that web-based apps won't be just as big of a flop on the Pre as they were on the iPhone?
post #149 of 210
Where is the innovation - the vision? Palm has basically integrated the iPhone's OS into it's product and expanded on it by adding a few new features. Dazzling I tell ya! At least now we understand why Apple has been able to swoop in and take the cell phone industry by surprise: The major players are unimaginative - mundane.

The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.
post #150 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

So is there any reason to believe that web-based apps won't be just as big of a flop on the Pre as they were on the iPhone?

I think they will be unsuccessful for a number of reasons. Performance is one because they are using javascript code. Another is flexibility - there's only so much you can actually do with web languages. I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.

There is also a vast amount of legacy code available today in desktop software that can't be ported to web app form, mainly for intellectual property reasons but also development effort. This means that apps come out very small and featureless. Not much better than widgets, which are based on the same technology.

They would probably have been better off partnering with Adobe and delivering a Flash-based OS. This way developers can to some level protect their content and they'd have much more powerful programming and interface tools.
post #151 of 210
Pre apps are not web apps like iPhone 1 apps. Just because they are written in javascript with html/css markup does not make them web apps.
All apps shown in the demo - that includes email, the calendar, the photo app and the dial app - were written this way, so I doubt there are concerns about flexibility.
Only thing this approach leaves behind is games but palm will probably have to release a binary sdk for that, too, but personally I couldn't care less about games.

Quote:
I think the most important aspect is code protection. If you develop a really useful program, people can see your code and they don't have to pay for it. No point in having an app store when none of the code is in binary form.

how stupid is that, just look at the vast amounts of (paid) open source software, already available javascript browser apps available for desktop browsers or easily decompilable software written in java, .net- or scripting-languages.
post #152 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

Where is the innovation - the vision? Palm has basically integrated the iPhone's OS into it's product and expanded on it by added a few new features. Dazzling I tell ya! At least now we understand why Apple has been able to swoop in and take the cell phone industry by surprise: The major players are unimaginative - mundane.

The people want a revolutionary new product not an iPhone clone.

I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.
post #153 of 210
Usually, when a product comes out to compete with the iphone, apple fans pooh pooh it.. the palm pre is the first product that will actually make an impact. Apple fans may pooh pooh it, but apple itself wouldn't. Apple will have to step up their game and they will. Nothing can really kill the iphone but competitors can certainly make apple more agile.
post #154 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

I didn't know the iphone multitasked, or that it had integrated messaging or that it had stero bluetooth, or that had cut and paste.. man, you learn something new everyday!!!.

I didn't know the iPhone had those features either. \
post #155 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

I didn't know the iPhone had those features either. \

Yes, so when you say the pre is not revolutionary, you just blowing smoke up your ass right?.
cause multitasking on a phone is revolutionary, integrated messaging is revolutionary.

Like i said, apple fans can pooh pooh all they want.. people will buy this phone.. i'm willing to make a bet that this phone sales will set records (if the pricing is reasonable.. maybe under 400).

Remember, the iphone was initially $600+ and it was successful. The palm pre will be successfull, it will not kill the iphone (apple fans are too dedicated for the iphone to die).. don't know if it will be bigger than iphone but it will leapfrog many iphone competitors and immediately become the top competitor to the iphone. Also, palm is planning different models (i read they are planning one with a virtual keyboard).
post #156 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Yes, so when you say the pre is not revolutionary, you just blowing smoke up your ass right?.
cause multitasking on a phone is revolutionary, integrated messaging is revolutionary.

The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.

What Apple has brought to the mobile phone industry is revolutionary. Now everyone is expanding off of that.
post #157 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.

What is your definition of revolutionary?.
I thought revolutionary is introducing features not found anywhere..
can you find a phone that multitask?..or one with integrated messaging?.

Evolutionary is when you improve an already existing feature.. i wasn't aware that multitasking on a phone already existed..., silly me.
post #158 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Postulant View Post

The Pre is evolutionary, not revolutionary... big difference.

What Apple did to the phone is revolutionary. Now everyone is expanding off of that.

I believe you also asked where the innovation is. I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?.. ask microsoft how will that strategy worked when they did that against apple. I can't wait for synergy to be exploited.. imagine, a corporate app where a company can reach you by any means without knowing how you are connected. I work at a company where i am required to be on corporate IM. Imagine the company wants to send a IM message to me stating an important meeting about to start.. they can send it via desktop IM with link.. if i close my instant messaging or am not available via IM. it automatically becomes a text message with a link. Powerful. There are tons of innovative apps that can be built on top of synergy. Also the apps will be updated via the web constantly so you always have the latest version. Allows a company to deploy the newest version of their corporate app and implement application policy. if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.
post #159 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

You mean macdailynews?

I can tell you right now that Jon Rubenstein's plan is NOT for a company to come and buy palm. They are in this to the bitter end. And I don't think its going to be a sad ending for them. They just might come back from the dead.

Rubenstein is more or less only there to design the new phone though, and Colligan is a heartless old-time business guy with an inferiority complex running a company "on death's door."

It's very common for companies on their last legs to get infusions of venture capital as investor's bet on a long-shot retreat from the edge of the abyss. On the few occasions when this actually happens and the stock goes up, it's very hard to ignore the one moment when as an investor you could get all your money back and not lose anything simply by selling the company at that point.

I'm not saying it *will* necessarily happen, but while Rubenstein is in his lab cooing over the details of the product, Colligan is almost certainly weighing his options vis-a-vis a sale of the company. Even if he eventually decides not to do it, he would be foolish not to at least think about it.

The inventors and designers of the computer world often get screwed by their corporate masters in this way.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #160 of 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

I realize that apple fans have to propagandize against the pre.... it's what microsoft did against the iphone before they even saw it and look how that worked out.. do you really believe going on a message board and claiming that the pre has no innovation or is not revolutionary will depress sales of the pre when it comes out?..

That's just silly.


Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

if it's possible to integrate synergy with realtime GPS, could be interesting.

Agreed.
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