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Palm surprises with Pre smartphone running new webOS - Page 3

post #81 of 210
1/9/09 at 10:29pm
How do you transfer contacts, pictures, and files to your Mac. I haven't heard of any desktop software that interacts with the phone.

Has anyone else seen such software?
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post #82 of 210
1/10/09 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Wow, good question.

It is possibly the BeOS windowing system on top of Linux.

I watched the Pre video tour. Some observations:

1. You have to slide the keyboard out to type anything. I found this is very annoying with Android. Apple's software keyboard actually changes depending on the context. For example, if a text field is numeric only, the keyboard only contains number keys. With hardware keyboard, typing some of the stuff (numbers, symbols) is very difficult.

2. Again about the keyboard - you have to turn to the correct orientation to type. On Android, you have to turn to landscape. With Pre, you have to turn to portrait.

3. Again about the keyboard. When people have to slide every time they want to type, that's extensive wear on the sliding mechanism. I have doubts on its reliability. iPhone has terrific reliability record and one of the reason is the lack of keyboard.

4. Speed. From the video tour, the responsiveness is just not there. It looks cool when doing the animations, but not cool when you try to do anything for real. The demonstrator tried six times to show the gesture area.

5. So the apps will essentially be web apps. Yawn.

6. Palm is squeeze to Sprint - which is neither GSM nor CDMA, and is way smaller than ATT and Verizon. Basically, it is getting the leftover from Apple, Blackberry and Android.

7. The phone is simply UGLY.

8. Attention to details. On iPhone, when you pinch, the zoom level actually stick to your fingers. On "Pre", it zooms but the zoom level seems to be fixed. Basically, it knows that you are pinching, but doesn't know how much.

9. To do multiple apps running properly, it needs to have more RAM. On iPhone, the application usually has only 24MB of RAM to work with (that's only 3x photos). Running multiple apps would require much more RAM (more expensive, and bigger device) or swapping onto the flash.

10. A lot of apps are not finished. Photo doesn't rotate according to accelerometer, for example. During the demo, the demonstrator keeps on say "There will be a menu ..... blah blah" for missing features. A lot of things didn't work. She would press a button, expecting something to work, but then have to switch to something else.

11. Palm and Sprint won't say anything about the pricing and schedule. That means two things - it is going to be expensive, and it is not ready.

So, I think it is at least one year from reality, and will cost much higher than what people expect. It is quite possibly BeOS windows server over Linux, and it may end up like BeOS - very cool but couldn't find a market.

I believe it is quite close to being ready (software) but to agree with you....its not ready. But we are only talking about a couple months here not a year that is for dang sure. They seem to be where the iphone 1.0 was 2 years ago at least concerning apps. You can be damn sure that Palm's intends to have a SDK out for developers to make native apps to support a software store and in fact I believe they announced as much. So the web apps will just be how it goes during the launch.

The trick for Palm now is how long its going to take them to shake the newness off of themselves and get themselves caught up in terms of apps. One way for them to buy time for themselves is in how they allow the product to get priced. Also, I think its going to be critical for them to allow this device to be on multiple carriers.....at least in the U.S.A.
But as they said, the unit will be distributed first in europe where its going to be on multiple carriers anyway.
The U.S. launch I believe will be very soon though like right after the euro launch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?
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post #83 of 210
1/10/09 at 9:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Well the OS kicks the iPhones ass out of the water. The hardware looks dated, too thick, too small and physical slide out keyboard just adds bulk. It doesn't look sleek or different from all the other clones out there.

I have to agree. The hardware looks downright old and ugly. Its a shame such a fine FINE OS has to be saddled to such hardware.
What would have killed the iphone in one killer, sniper like blow would have been if they teamed up that OS with some revolutionary hardware. Perhaps they could have beaten apple to the punch with some flexible display technology or a unit with an lcd display that takes up the majority of the frontside of the phone maybe? Ya know what I mean? Say like having a unit the same size as the iphone but have the lcd be much much bigger?
That, coupled with just 1 or 2 more discrete hardware buttons (for gaming).......something like any of the above mentioned would really have killed the iphone.

But the reality is they have a product with what might be a superior OS (although young) but oldish hardware.

And if you've been following Apple's moves with PA Semi.......oh my gosh the drama for this year is just getting started! Can you imagine what Apple's got up their sleeve?
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post #84 of 210
1/10/09 at 10:29am
SJ has already seen the iphone killer....we'll see it ourselves before june
other than the physical keyboard, iphone v3 will address them all including cut and paste
and i hope voicedialing..
i see this more as a competitor to RIM bold, storm, it doesn't have an ecosystem like apple, but we will hear
more with time....the devil is in the details
which are lacking
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #85 of 210
1/10/09 at 1:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Palm, WHERE IS THE NEW VERSION OF Palm Desktop for Mac? It has not been updated for a decade, being limited and buggy!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe View Post

LOL! Yeah, the #1 reason I stopped using my last two PDAs (Palm OS and a Zaurus) was lack of easy syncing with my Mac.

I switched back to PC partly because of Palm Desktop Mac.

My Sony Clie still serves me well today (with its measly Motorola 68000 CPU!).

As for Palm Pre:

Stack of cards metaphor = Killer Feature

Synced web calendars = Killer App
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post #86 of 210
1/10/09 at 1:37pm
I get the impression from this thread that unless it looks exactly like the iPhone and has the iPhone OS, it's not worth the time of day. Which is exactly the same as the Mac base topics - unless it looks like a Mac and runs OSX, it's a POS. It's just a pity there are so many narrowed minded people around here.
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post #87 of 210
1/10/09 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I get the impression from this thread that unless it looks exactly like the iPhone and has the iPhone OS, it's not worth the time of day. Which is exactly the same as the Mac base topics - unless it looks like a Mac and runs OSX, it's a POS. It's just a pity there are so many narrowed minded people around here.

I wonder what thread you're reading, then, because on the one in front of me the responses range from "Wow! Looks awesome!" and "OS looks very interesting/awesome although I'm not smitten by the hardware" to "Competition is good, hope this spurs Apple to think different."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #88 of 210
1/10/09 at 3:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Geez, that guy is cocky as hell and rude.

You mean like Steve Jobs?. Also, since when does price stop a product from being successful?.. hasn't Steve Jobs proven this over and over?. IF people think that synergy is worth their extra money, they will pony up.. i can't wait.I am a heavy user of email and texting. To be able to see all my contacts one place and not have to worry how to contact a person is great.. i espicially like the fact that if you are im'ing someone and they close their im session, it switches to texting immediately without interruption. Sweet. Now, all i have to worry about is communicating with someone, not how i communicate with them.

Palm definetly has some ideas worth implementing in the Iphone.. i predict that a few companies will copy synergy.
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post #89 of 210
1/10/09 at 4:10pm
The categories are Best in Show, People's Choice, and Cell Phones/Smartphones.

Out of the box it does more than the iPhone and has an OS that (to me) resembles OSX with its ease of use in the demo I watched.

From the demo and the specs this is what I was hoping for when I purchased my iPhone 3G.

In my opinion this is a very serious reason for Apple to get back to the drawing board.

Maybe "Think Different" doesn't work anymore and thinking like everyone else and giving the iPhone the basic features its lacked from day one would be a good place to start and then catch up with the features on the Pre.
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post #90 of 210
1/10/09 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

You mean like Steve Jobs?. Also, since when does price stop a product from being successful?.. hasn't Steve Jobs proven this over and over?. IF people think that synergy is worth their extra money, they will pony up.. i can't wait.I am a heavy user of email and texting. To be able to see all my contacts one place and not have to worry how to contact a person is great.. i espicially like the fact that if you are im'ing someone and they close their im session, it switches to texting immediately without interruption. Sweet. Now, all i have to worry about is communicating with someone, not how i communicate with them.

Palm definetly has some ideas worth implementing in the Iphone.. i predict that a few companies will copy synergy.

Again, people aren't going to pony up for "features" in software when they can be replicated on other handsets which have other advantages or which cost less. Integrated messaging isn't a software suite like iLife or a next gen game-- the kind of platform specific, very difficult to replicate thing that might dictate hardware choices.

If it looks like this is a useful feature, to enough people, that can be implemented well, I would guess that Apple or a third party would develop something. No doubt Google is looking at the Pre as well.

OTOH, until we get a chance to actually use such a feature, it's hard to say. Devil's in the details, as always.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #91 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

I believe it is quite close to being ready (software) but to agree with you....its not ready. But we are only talking about a couple months here not a year that is for dang sure. They seem to be where the iphone 1.0 was 2 years ago at least concerning apps. You can be damn sure that Palm's intends to have a SDK out for developers to make native apps to support a software store and in fact I believe they announced as much. So the web apps will just be how it goes during the launch.

The trick for Palm now is how long its going to take them to shake the newness off of themselves and get themselves caught up in terms of apps. One way for them to buy time for themselves is in how they allow the product to get priced. Also, I think its going to be critical for them to allow this device to be on multiple carriers.....at least in the U.S.A.
But as they said, the unit will be distributed first in europe where its going to be on multiple carriers anyway.
The U.S. launch I believe will be very soon though like right after the euro launch. Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Pre, as in the video tour, is in way worse shape than iPhone in MacWorld 2007. It took Apple six months to release after the first demo. Pre will need at least 9 to 12 months.

Another way to do time estimation - whenever you hear a vendor talking about "release in X months", multiply by 3 and you will get a fairly accurate date. Palm and Sprint wouldn't even say "first quarter of 2009". Instead, it is "first half of 2009", meaning "in 4 to 6 months". In reality, that pushes the release date to 12 to 18 months from now.

Please view the video, and see how many times the demonstrator wants to show something and it didn't work. For example, rotate the webbrowser when the phone is landscape. Even that doesn't work.

Pre is about 80% to 90% feature complete, but anyone in the software would know, the last 10% takes 90% of the effort.

Actually, it makes little sense to release it too soon in this economy. If I were Palm, I would target Xmas 2009 (and hope the economy recovers, or at least stables by then). The only reason to release early is to get attention from potential investors. So, it is possible that Palm would release early, before the product is ready, but that would be a huge mistake.

BTW, I believe both Android (G1) and Blackberry Storm were released too early. They have too many holes. After testing Android for a few days, I just cannot imagine anyone would prefer it over iPhone.
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post #92 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Pre, as in the video tour, is in way worse shape than iPhone in MacWorld 2007. It took Apple six months to release after the first demo. Pre will need at least 9 to 12 months.

That's bull. I'm watching the video right now, it'll easily be ready in 6 months. Palm did a great job and deserve the credit for that.

What will Apple do in the next 6 months though? That's the real important question. The iPhone needs more RAM, better processor management and optimization in the OS. A WAY better camera, high quality 4MP with Xenon flash. There is always the mega pixel myth, but the iPhone needs a better camera. To a certain extent the MP also matter. Lots of other factors come into play like the size and quality of the light sensor etc., but the iPhone's current camera is pretty terrible, and it needs a flash.

But most importantly of all IMO. What the iPhone needs "above all other things", is an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I won't say that again, cause you heard me the forth time.
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post #93 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Again, people aren't going to pony up for "features" in software when they can be replicated on other handsets which have other advantages or which cost less. Integrated messaging isn't a software suite like iLife or a next gen game-- the kind of platform specific, very difficult to replicate thing that might dictate hardware choices.

If it looks like this is a useful feature, to enough people, that can be implemented well, I would guess that Apple or a third party would develop something. No doubt Google is looking at the Pre as well.

OTOH, until we get a chance to actually use such a feature, it's hard to say. Devil's in the details, as always.


Google was listed as one of the partners at the presentation at CES that Palm worked with on the Pre.
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post #94 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Pre, as in the video tour, is in way worse shape than iPhone in MacWorld 2007. It took Apple six months to release after the first demo. Pre will need at least 9 to 12 months.

Another way to do time estimation - whenever you hear a vendor talking about "release in X months", multiply by 3 and you will get a fairly accurate date. Palm and Sprint wouldn't even say "first quarter of 2009". Instead, it is "first half of 2009", meaning "in 4 to 6 months". In reality, that pushes the release date to 12 to 18 months from now.

Please view the video, and see how many times the demonstrator wants to show something and it didn't work. For example, rotate the webbrowser when the phone is landscape. Even that doesn't work.

Pre is about 80% to 90% feature complete, but anyone in the software would know, the last 10% takes 90% of the effort.

Actually, it makes little sense to release it too soon in this economy. If I were Palm, I would target Xmas 2009 (and hope the economy recovers, or at least stables by then). The only reason to release early is to get attention from potential investors. So, it is possible that Palm would release early, before the product is ready, but that would be a huge mistake.

BTW, I believe both Android (G1) and Blackberry Storm were released too early. They have too many holes. After testing Android for a few days, I just cannot imagine anyone would prefer it over iPhone.


Maybe they want to get the OS stable and not use their users as beta testers like Apple did with the 3G. The iPhone wasn't even remotely stable until 2.2 and the battery still sucks.
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post #95 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:24pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoss View Post

Once somebody, maybe SiriusXM or DirectTV, comes up with a reliable satellite phone service, we can forget about AT&T, Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile, and have dirt cheap coverage everywhere. And their infrastructure is already built about 100 miles above the weather.

Satellite phones have existed for a decade or more.

http://www.iridium.com/

It was a Motorola venture that might have sunk the company if they hadn't protected themselves by putting it in a separate company. After sinking $6 billion into the company, they sold it off to private investors for $25 million.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #96 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Google was listed as one of the partners at the presentation at CES that Palm worked with on the Pre.

I think Google is listed as a "partner" on pretty much everything, at this point. At any rate, it certainly doesn't preclude Google from poaching anything they think might improve Android.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #97 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

I think Google is listed as a "partner" on pretty much everything, at this point. At any rate, it certainly doesn't preclude Google from poaching anything they think might improve Android.

It would be nice if Apple learned how to "work" with other partners. Maybe when Steve Jobs isn't CEO, Apple will start to work with other companies instead of dictating their way or the highway.

This is one of the reasons Google has been so successful.
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post #98 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CU10 View Post

Stack of cards metaphor = Killer Feature

I agree this is a great feature. Apple could do something to improve access to apps you use concurrently. I wonder how well the card feature works though when you have several large apps open at the same time.

Quote:
Synced web calendars = Killer App

iPhone calendar syncs with the web and my Mac instantly.
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post #99 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:37pm
I don't agree. It looks as though Palm has done a great job with the Pre. But its not valid to compare a beta product to one that is out in the real world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I get the impression from this thread that unless it looks exactly like the iPhone and has the iPhone OS, it's not worth the time of day. Which is exactly the same as the Mac base topics - unless it looks like a Mac and runs OSX, it's a POS. It's just a pity there are so many narrowed minded people around here.
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post #100 of 210
1/10/09 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Pass the joint, mate!

No dude, I think hes right. Even if Apple was resting on their laurels (which I don't think they are) it at least SEEMS like they are after that speCRAPularly boring macworld keynote. While I'm sure they planned on macworld to be boring for various internal and strategic reasons it doesn't matter now.
Now it LOOKS like Apple is being lazy or running out of ideas while others are passing them by.

I wonder what was Steve Jobs reaction to Jon Rubenstein's team's WebOS creation of theirs.
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post #101 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:00pm
What do you mean Apple doesn't partner? The iPhone comes with Google/Yahoo search toolbar in the browser. Apple built the YouTube app and the Google Maps app.

Unlike Microsoft who has Windows Live that directly competes with all of these services.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

It would be nice if Apple learned how to "work" with other partners. Maybe when Steve Jobs isn't CEO, Apple will start to work with other companies instead of dictating their way or the highway.

This is one of the reasons Google has been so successful.
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post #102 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:05pm
You have to be reasonable. No software company releases bug free software. Their is no way to test for all problems. At some point you have to put it out their and find problems from real world use. Look at the problems the BlackBerry Storm has been having.

Does that mean all the other 3G phones whose batteries don't last as long as the iPhone really really suck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Maybe they want to get the OS stable and not use their users as beta testers like Apple did with the 3G. The iPhone wasn't even remotely stable until 2.2 and the battery still sucks.
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post #103 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:07pm
Simply because Apple did not have a big product launch at MacWorld means nothing. Apple plays its plans close to the sleeve. Of course they have great new ideas.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

Now it LOOKS like Apple is being lazy or running out of ideas while others are passing them by.
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post #104 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

You have to be reasonable. No software company releases bug free software. Their is no way to test for all problems. At some point you have to put it out their and find problems from real world use. Look at the problems the BlackBerry Storm has been having.

Does that mean all the other 3G phones whose batteries don't last as long as the iPhone really really suck?

The battery life is still a problem. The iPhone's 2.0 software and especially MobileMe wasn't ready for release and in my opinion both should still be in Beta.

Apple promised push in the last rev and didn't deliver and has given no reason why.

Please don't make excuses for Apple putting out software before it's been tested or for using us as BETA testers.

Every version of the iPhone 3G software up to 2.2 was a joke and 2.2 has just got to the point of usable.
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post #105 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

SJ has already seen the iphone killer....we'll see it ourselves before june
other than the physical keyboard, iphone v3 will address them all including cut and paste
and i hope voicedialing..
i see this more as a competitor to RIM bold, storm, it doesn't have an ecosystem like apple, but we will hear
more with time....the devil is in the details
which are lacking

Yes I'm sure its going to raise the bar again. However, I'm not so sure that iphone 3.0 will allow multitasking......unless we are talking about their new grand mobile device the mactouch or whatever its going to be. WebOS (at least for now) had the iphone platform beat when it comes to multitasking because you can be DAMN SURE Jon Rubenstein has seen to it that multitasking will be stable and reliable on the palm pre.

Gawd, the drama the drama I love this stuff!
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post #106 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:49pm
appledailynews suggests palm is looking for a take over
Perhaps moro. Hmmmm what other compny needs an is
To survive. Sounds like a reasonable strategy
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #107 of 210
1/10/09 at 6:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

Pre, as in the video tour, is in way worse shape than iPhone in MacWorld 2007. It took Apple six months to release after the first demo. Pre will need at least 9 to 12 months.

Another way to do time estimation - whenever you hear a vendor talking about "release in X months", multiply by 3 and you will get a fairly accurate date. Palm and Sprint wouldn't even say "first quarter of 2009". Instead, it is "first half of 2009", meaning "in 4 to 6 months". In reality, that pushes the release date to 12 to 18 months from now.

Please view the video, and see how many times the demonstrator wants to show something and it didn't work. For example, rotate the webbrowser when the phone is landscape. Even that doesn't work.

Pre is about 80% to 90% feature complete, but anyone in the software would know, the last 10% takes 90% of the effort.

Actually, it makes little sense to release it too soon in this economy. If I were Palm, I would target Xmas 2009 (and hope the economy recovers, or at least stables by then). The only reason to release early is to get attention from potential investors. So, it is possible that Palm would release early, before the product is ready, but that would be a huge mistake.

BTW, I believe both Android (G1) and Blackberry Storm were released too early. They have too many holes. After testing Android for a few days, I just cannot imagine anyone would prefer it over iPhone.

No, economy or not they gotta release in the first half of 2009 or thats it for them. They have a KILLER product. But they are so far behind in the game that I think if they don't indeed release in the first six months then.....I dunno. We will see what happens. I hope for all the best for Palm.
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post #108 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

That's bull. I'm watching the video right now, it'll easily be ready in 6 months. Palm did a great job and deserve the credit for that.

What will Apple do in the next 6 months though? That's the real important question. The iPhone needs more RAM, better processor management and optimization in the OS. A WAY better camera, high quality 4MP with Xenon flash. There is always the mega pixel myth, but the iPhone needs a better camera. To a certain extent the MP also matter. Lots of other factors come into play like the size and quality of the light sensor etc., but the iPhone's current camera is pretty terrible, and it needs a flash.

But most importantly of all IMO. What the iPhone needs "above all other things", is an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I'll say that again, the next iPhone needs an OLED display. I won't say that again, cause you heard me the forth time.

Hell.......a flexible display! They have to stay 5 years ahead of the competition. That is the only way they are going to solve the problem of needing a mobile device with a large screen with the ability to easily fit in a pocket.
Its going to happen and the first company to do it commercially on a large scale will be APPLE!
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post #109 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Simply because Apple did not have a big product launch at MacWorld means nothing. Apple plays its plans close to the sleeve. Of course they have great new ideas.

I know I know. Its just it LOOKS like they don't have anything. Perhaps "looking like" they don't have anything is bad for them. Or perhaps it lulls the competition into feeling things are safe from an Apple Attack.
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post #110 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER View Post

appledailynews suggests palm is looking for a take over
Perhaps moro. Hmmmm what other compny needs an is
To survive. Sounds like a reasonable strategy

You mean macdailynews?

I can tell you right now that Jon Rubenstein's plan is NOT for a company to come and buy palm. They are in this to the bitter end. And I don't think its going to be a sad ending for them. They just might come back from the dead.
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post #111 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

The battery life is still a problem. The iPhone's 2.0 software and especially MobileMe wasn't ready for release and in my opinion both should still be in Beta.

Battery life is drained faster in 3G, but that's the same case for every phone. The iPhone lasts just as long or longer than phones with larger batteries.

I can agree both iPhone 2.0 and MM, had some serious bugs when they were first launched. Unless you have direct access to Apple's software development its difficult to say whether they could have done it much better than it was done. The bugs are being worked out in each service and both are successful for Apple.

Quote:
Apple promised push in the last rev and didn't deliver and has given no reason why.

Steve Jobs sent an email explaining that they want push notification to work properly and are working on it. You complain software should stay in beta until it works, then you complain that they are not releasing software fast enough.

Quote:
Please don't make excuses for Apple putting out software before it's been tested or for using us as BETA testers.

You can say early adopters are always beta testers to some degree.

Quote:
Every version of the iPhone 3G software up to 2.2 was a joke and 2.2 has just got to the point of usable.

I was using the iPhone 3G at 2.0. I agree it had some major bugs but it was usable. Apple wouldn't have sold millions of iPhones if it wasn't usable.
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post #112 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Battery life is drained faster in 3G, but that's the same case for every phone. The iPhone lasts just as long or longer than phones with larger batteries.

I can agree both iPhone 2.0 and MM, had some serious bugs when they were first launched. Unless you have direct access to Apple's software development its difficult to say whether they could have done it much better than it was done. The bugs are being worked out in each service and both are successful for Apple.



Steve Jobs sent an email explaining that they want push notification to work properly and are working on it. You complain software should stay in beta until it works, then you complain that they are not releasing software fast enough.



You can say early adopters are always beta testers to some degree.



I was using the iPhone 3G at 2.0. I agree it had some major bugs but it was usable. Apple wouldn't have sold millions of iPhones if it wasn't usable.

It was usable as a PDA for 2 hours and then as a paper weight after that. It had to be reset 6-10 times a day.
Vista was more stable than 2.0.

Apple has turned the iPhone into a gaming device and not even close to a business phone, which to me seems to make sense with the average intelligence of the FanBoy's that rant in this room that Steve Job's is the second coming.

It's amazing what a couple of Apple defecters can do without Steve making every decision for them.

The Pre Rocks and did what Apple hasn't been able to do. I hope nothing but the best for Palm and hope the App Store is as successful as the over bloated Apple App Store and gives users real applications that can be used on a business platform.
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post #113 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

It was usable as a PDA for 2 hours and then as a paper weight after that. It had to be reset 6-10 times a day.
Vista was more stable than 2.0.

That wasn't the average experience of those who stated in survey's that they were extremely satisfied with their iPhone purchase.

Quote:
Apple has turned the iPhone into a gaming device and not even close to a business phone, which to me seems to make sense with the average intelligence of the FanBoy's that rant in this room that Steve Job's is the second coming.

What if they can make more money from a gaming device than a business device? Is their a problem with that?

Exactly who said Jobs is the second coming?

Quote:
It's amazing what a couple of Apple defecters can do without Steve making every decision for them. The Pre Rocks and did what Apple hasn't been able to do.

I agree the Pre looks really good. I'm sure will be a big seller for Palm.

But honestly the Pre follows a lot of the basic UI principles that Apple started with the iPhone.

- A touch screen for your fingers not a stylus

- icons on a desktop with scrollable pages

- Multi-Touch gesture based UI

- the face of the phone is a large screen with only a home button

Quote:
hope the App Store is as successful as the over bloated Apple App Store and gives users real applications that can be used on a business platform.

What gives you the impression that the Pre will be any more business oriented than the iPhone? I would say its more a consumer device than business device.

All software platforms are bloated with a lot of useless apps.
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post #114 of 210
1/10/09 at 7:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

It was usable as a PDA for 2 hours and then as a paper weight after that. It had to be reset 6-10 times a day.
Vista was more stable than 2.0.

Apple has turned the iPhone into a gaming device and not even close to a business phone, which to me seems to make sense with the average intelligence of the FanBoy's that rant in this room that Steve Job's is the second coming.

It's amazing what a couple of Apple defecters can do without Steve making every decision for them.

The Pre Rocks and did what Apple hasn't been able to do. I hope nothing but the best for Palm and hope the App Store is as successful as the over bloated Apple App Store and gives users real applications that can be used on a business platform.


Someone who appears to be incapable as making any kind of point beyond "Apple sucks" really isn't in any position to talk about the "average intelligence of the FanBoy's that rant in this room that Steve Job's is the second coming."

The only ranting in this thread is coming from you. The grown-ups are having a conversation about the relative merits of some new tech.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #115 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Someone who appears to be incapable as making any kind of point beyond "Apple sucks" really isn't in any position to talk about the "average intelligence of the FanBoy's that rant in this room that Steve Job's is the second coming."

The only ranting in this thread is coming from you. The grown-ups are having a conversation about the relative merits of some new tech.

Please do me the favor of giving at least an inteligent come back.

There is a lot a pro talk for the Pre and a lot of FanBoy's that can't accept that Steve is doing more harm to Apple than helping in the past year.

Yes, I think Apple Sucks big time these days and the Apple FanBoy's will follow them to their grave if Steve tells them to drink the Kool-Aid.

I switched to PC and have been happier ever since (XP).

The iPhone was the Razor of the day. Let it rest in Peace and make room for the BigBoy's with the power to back up their commercials.

Edit. I had to copy and paste something. Wait... I can't do that on my state of the art iPhone 3G.
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post #116 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:14pm
Sounds more like a personal grudge than any real perspective.

If Apple sucks, why are their so many muti-touch gesture based phones being released?

Why does Sony use MacBook keys on its new notebooks.

Why does Dell's new premium line of notebooks look just like the MacBook.

Why does ASUS have a new keyboard that looks just like the Mac desktop keyboard.

Why is Apple outselling the larger PC market.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Yes, I think Apple Sucks big time these days and the Apple FanBoy's will follow them to their grave if Steve tells them to drink the Kool-Aid.
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post #117 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Sounds more like a personal grudge than any real perspective.

If Apple sucks, why are their so many muti-touch gesture based phones being released?

Why does Sony use MacBook keys on its new notebooks.

Why does Dell's new premium line of notebooks look just like the MacBook.

Why does ASUS have a new keyboard that looks just like the Mac desktop keyboard.

Why is Apple outselling the larger PC market.

It was a cool idea

I don't have a clue what MacBook keys are, I have a Dell that has the more power than the latest 17" Apple Laptop and I have HDMI built in and at almost 1/2 the price.

I have the latest XPS an it looks nothing like a MacBook.

I don't care what ASUS keyboard looks like.

Why is Apple's stock down 58% in the last year?

It's because it has a CEO that can't admit that he is physically and mentally incapable of running the business day to day.
Not to mention he's and arogant SOB that has to have everything his way.

But this is off the subject we're here to discuss how the Pre out performs the 3G iPhone in every feature.
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post #118 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Please do me the favor of giving at least an inteligent come back.

There is a lot a pro talk for the Pre and a lot of FanBoy's that can't accept that Steve is doing more harm to Apple than helping in the past year.

Yes, I think Apple Sucks big time these days and the Apple FanBoy's will follow them to their grave if Steve tells them to drink the Kool-Aid.

I switched to PC and have been happier ever since (XP).

The iPhone was the Razor of the day. Let it rest in Peace and make room for the BigBoy's with the power to back up their commercials.

Edit. I had to copy and paste something. Wait... I can't do that on my state of the art iPhone 3G.

Anyone who has to rely on the creaky old straw-man of railing against (largely imaginary) "FanBoys" and their alleged fealty to their "messiah" doesn't deserve much of a response at all, beyond being ignored as a troll. And a kind of gratingly stupid one, at that.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #119 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Anyone who has to rely on the creaky old straw-man of railing against (largely imaginary) "FanBoys" and their alleged fealty to their "messiah" doesn't deserve much of a response at all, beyond being ignored as a troll. And a kind of gratingly stupid one, at that.

Last question.

Does the Pre out perform the iPhone 3G in every capacity of the phone.

Based on the specs and every review I've read it does. Not to mention a demo that made the iPhone look like the Newton of it's days.

The Newton couldn't copy and paste either but it did really bad hand writing recognition.

FanBoy Flamers need not reply.
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post #120 of 210
1/10/09 at 8:57pm
so many accolades for a phone that's not out yet and can't be fully evaluated, has palm infected AI???? give me a break, perhaps we can just wait 6 months to compare, we are justifying all this on what ???? a feature list come on guys how often has feature lists become quickly muted????
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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