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Apple's mini connector set to be part of DisplayPort standard

post #1 of 75
Thread Starter 
After taking a gamble on the acceptance of Mini DisplayPort as a connection for computer screens, Apple is about to be rewarded as its technology is now expected to become part of an industry-wide format that also includes extremely high resolutions and multiple displays on a single link.

The Video Electronics Standards Association, or VESA, said last week as CES began that DisplayPort 1.2 should include Mini DisplayPort as part of the DisplayPort 1.2 specification.

Before this, Apple has had to license its technology itself and made the standard free as an incentive for rapid adoption from vendors constrained by the regular DisplayPort connector.

It's not known whether the officially approved Mini DisplayPort will involve the full range of features from 1.2, but it will let any company building a computer or graphics card adopt the port with the blessing of the standards group and know that it will work with other 1.2-supporting hardware.

In the meantime, those who use at least the full-size standard will have options that previously haven't existed in computer displays without special tricks. By offering twice as much bandwidth between the graphics hardware and the display, 1.2 will up the maximum resolution for a single computer display from the 2560x1600 found in the 30-inch Cinema Display and most other large monitors to a much larger 3840x2160, even with 30-bit depth that allows one billion colors.

Mini DisplayPort versus DVI; regular DisplayPort is significantly larger than Apple's offering.

Depending on the color and frame rate, the DisplayPort refresh will also permit two 2560x1600 displays to run from just a single connection or as many as four 1920x1200 displays; a sufficiently fast video chipset could drive multiple views from one port as a result.

Expanding further still, the standard enables a single display to run at a much faster 120Hz frame rate or else to create a stereoscopic 3D effect, usually viewable through special glasses.

Whether Apple embraces these aspects or not, its actual implementation will take some time: VESA doesn't publish its final DisplayPort 1.2 specifications until the middle of this year and thus makes it the earliest practical time that third parties can start making their own compatible hardware, even if Mini DisplayPort by itself is available early and should be present on all future Macs.
post #2 of 75
Either way, Apple has decided to move full steam ahead with the DisplayPort on Macs. The inclusion of it on first portables is a clear sign as portables outsell desktops.
post #3 of 75
Mini DisplayPort should be ammended to support audio and USB, eliminating the need for awkward connection between MacBooks and LED Cinema Display.
post #4 of 75
DisplayPort, the DRM is free
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post #5 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

Mini DisplayPort should be ammended to support audio and USB, eliminating the need for awkward connection between MacBooks and LED Cinema Display.

1. Mini DisplayPort has always been on the roadmap for DisplayPort 2.0 ( Now they have changed the name to 1.2 )
2. Apple went ahead and did all the techinical requirement for Mini DisplayPort, and submited it back. Instead of waiting for Displayport 1.2. Like What Intel did to USB 3.

Mini DisplayPort is Pin to Pin Comptabible to DisplayPort.
And since DisplayPort 1.2 is Pin to Pin the same as 1.1, Min Displayport Should get all the features update as well.

1.2 has an 100Mbit /s Backbone. Which means it will support Most of your USB prepheiphals. Like WebCam, USB Audio, etc.
post #6 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by filburt View Post

Mini DisplayPort should be ammended to support audio and USB, eliminating the need for awkward connection between MacBooks and LED Cinema Display.

The DisplayPort spec already includes audio and, as Ksec says, Mini DisplayPort is pin to pin compatible. Not sure why Apple chose not to do audio in their implementation.
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post #7 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

1. Mini DisplayPort has always been on the roadmap for DisplayPort 2.0 ( Now they have changed the name to 1.2 )
2. Apple went ahead and did all the techinical requirement for Mini DisplayPort, and submited it back. Instead of waiting for Displayport 1.2. Like What Intel did to USB 3.

Mini DisplayPort is Pin to Pin Comptabible to DisplayPort.
And since DisplayPort 1.2 is Pin to Pin the same as 1.1, Min Displayport Should get all the features update as well.

1.2 has an 100Mbit /s Backbone. Which means it will support Most of your USB prepheiphals. Like WebCam, USB Audio, etc.

Just curious - do you have a source for this?
post #8 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The DisplayPort spec already includes audio and, as Ksec says, Mini DisplayPort is pin to pin compatible. Not sure why Apple chose not to do audio in their implementation.

My guess would be the Controller End ( Proberly the Macbook Nvidia End ) does not supporting the Audio Spec Yet. ( I am not sure if the audio part is required in the specification. )

A little bit like previous HDMI implementation in Video Card where Audio Passthrough are not always available.
post #9 of 75
As usual the dog (apple) leads while the sheep (windows) follows.
post #10 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

My guess would be the Controller End ( Proberly the Macbook Nvidia End ) does not supporting the Audio Spec Yet. ( I am not sure if the audio part is required in the specification. )

A little bit like previous HDMI implementation in Video Card where Audio Passthrough are not always available.

That sounds right.
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post #11 of 75
Hurray! Yet another display connector from Apple, has anyone else lost count of how many there are?
post #12 of 75
It's good that Apple got the mini port part of the standard (i kinda figured they would). Of course, this also means that the haters will be here shortly to preach about how VGA is superior and that Apple is dumb for not supporting it, or that HDMI is king and this whole Displayport thing is silly, standard connector or not.
post #13 of 75
The implication that 3840x2400 will not be supported is odd.
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post #14 of 75
Assuming the mini-DP connector gains all the capabilities of the full-size one, why would anyone bother with the latter in the future? More puzzling - why didn't VESA shrink the original down to the smallest size possible when they had the chance?

I'm just hoping that all future implementations go right to the mini connector so we don't have to dick around with adapters.
post #15 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokuwaomar View Post

Of course, this also means that the haters will be here shortly to preach about how VGA is superior and that Apple is dumb for not supporting it, or that HDMI is king and this whole Displayport thing is silly, standard connector or not.

Except that VGA is not superior and HDMI only supports resolutions up to 1920x1080 which isn't any good for computer monitors above 24-26 inches. I think the haters miss DVI.
post #16 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Hurray! Yet another display connector from Apple, has anyone else lost count of how many there are?

C'mon let's be fair to Apple. Like any company they have limited resources and have to prioritize. They made the decision to add yet one more display connector to a market already crowded with them, instead of developing more iLife apps and adding features to the iPhone.

I for one think it was absolutely the right decision, and support them wholeheartedly. Ermm.. hang on.
post #17 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

Hurray! Yet another display connector from Apple, has anyone else lost count of how many there are?

I'm amazed at all the animosity at Apple for dropping SL-DVI-D, DL-DVI-I, mini-DVI-D and micro-DVI-D in favour a single display connector for all their devices. Especially one that is considerably future-forward over the other available options.
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post #18 of 75
In my opinion, since all the "content providers" are worried about piracy and Apple is in bed with them, instead of using HDCP via DisplayPort, why not just use HDMI? HDMI is still smaller than a full DVI port and works fine. Is DP that much better than HDMI?

I'm still rocking a 23" Cinema HD Display with the dreaded ADC connector. I had to buy Apple's $100 ADC-to-DVI adaptor to get it to work on my PowerBook. The thing is a heavy white 5" equare brick that is always hot to the touch.
post #19 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil View Post

In my opinion, since all the "content providers" are worried about piracy and Apple is in bed with them, instead of using HDCP via DisplayPort, why not just use HDMI? HDMI is still smaller than a full DVI port and works fine. Is DP that much better than HDMI?

1) Read the article.
2) Do a quick comparison on Wikipedia.
3) Mini-DP, which Apple has stated it's adopting across the line, is smaller than HDMI.
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post #20 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post

The implication that 3840x2400 will not be supported is odd.

Why would you think that is the case? DisplayPort 1.2 Will support that resolution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

Assuming the mini-DP connector gains all the capabilities of the full-size one, why would anyone bother with the latter in the future? More puzzling - why didn't VESA shrink the original down to the smallest size possible when they had the chance?

I'm just hoping that all future implementations go right to the mini connector so we don't have to dick around with adapters.

Good Question. Although i would like to ask the same thing. Why we all dont just use Micro USB Port or even Mini USB Port and Get Rid of the Big USB Port?

Quote:
Originally Posted by vandil View Post

In my opinion, since all the "content providers" are worried about piracy and Apple is in bed with them, instead of using HDCP via DisplayPort, why not just use HDMI? HDMI is still smaller than a full DVI port and works fine. Is DP that much better than HDMI?

I'm still rocking a 23" Cinema HD Display with the dreaded ADC connector. I had to buy Apple's $100 ADC-to-DVI adaptor to get it to work on my PowerBook. The thing is a heavy white 5" equare brick that is always hot to the touch.

Well, technically DisplayPort is much better then HDMI. Like Firewire and USB.

Except this time around. Firewire ( DisplayPort ) is Free.
post #21 of 75
The "full-size" Display Port is roughly as big/small as a USB port. I don't see any practical reason why this had to be repaced by a mini version.

My MBP early 08 has a full-size DVI port and 2 firewire ports, yet it's smaller in dimensions than the late 08 MBP. What a miracle of product design!
post #22 of 75
hummmmmm how good of apple to provide the world with another forward thinking and futuristic type of port. Does it remind anyone of anything.

HOW ABOUT FIREWIRE

We can all look forward to its demise in three years time and leave everyone stranded
like... FIREWIRE

Thank you Apple
post #23 of 75
I have owned a Mac since The 1st 100 Days, 3/06/84. I just bought my 6th Mac, & got it on 10/20. It is a 15.4" 2.8 GHz MacBook Pro. I am not happy because there's absolutely no reasonable way for me to put the screen's display up on my 1996 40" Mitsubishi Diamond Vision. This TV has no HDMI or component inputs in front but does have composite & S-Video inputs, which worked just dandy w/my 06/2004 1.5 GHz PowerBook G4, which has an S-Video output. It will display HD broadcast programming (probably 720P). So I cannot get HD movies from my new MacBook Pro onto the screen!

I estimate that there will be ~2 year gap while technology in-use catches up with what is currently available. There is no transition adapter-equipment available that I can find which will successfully adapt Mini DisplayPort output onto S-Video or Composite video inputs. What a waste of Life!

Until I can afford to get the Pioneer Elite 111FD-Pro 50" TV of my dreams (lowest price seen was just South of $3K) & the HR-21 Pro DVR, I am stuck with falling back to using my older PowerBook G4. I sure wish that there were some gap-filling solution, but so far, I find none.
post #24 of 75
Oh man, I knew Display 1.2 was going to bring improvements and potentially double the max data rate, but i wasn't sure of the details. This is excellent!
I have been waiting for practical high resolution ~3840x2400 displays forever! Obviously this is just the interface standard --- production ~30" 3840x2400 displays are obviously many years down the road. Although we don't need displayport for it, I'd love to see 20-24" 2560x1600 displays...

I have probably personally bitched about the stagnation of computer display pixel density more than anyone else on the internet. I still blame both Microsoft and Apple for not building in full resolution independence into their operating system interfaces.... At this point, the vast majority of consumers associate high display resolution with small text and interface elements. Unfortunately, that is the case since both windows and OSX have poor DPI scaling. I currently use XP on a 1920x1200 17" laptop, and it's builtin DPI scaling is atrocious. Many 3rd party applications have problems with it... text boxes and UI elements disappear or get hidden behind dialog boxes that are now too small for the elements they contain and cannot be resized. In other cases, interface elements overlap each other. I haven't used a high-resolution/small display Mac running OSX lately, So perhaps the scaling issue is handled much better than my XP experience. Vista has improved this somewhat, but isn't even close to perfection as I've heard.

Let's all hope that Snow Leopard brings improvement on this front. Considering that future iPhones will most likely need to support greater (and perhaps smaller) display resolutions, maybe this is now the perfect time for Apple to make all OSX versions resolution-independent.. We can wish
post #25 of 75
Get a mini-Displayport to VGA adaptor, and then a scan convertor from VGA to S-Video.

FFS your TV is 13 years old, do you really expect modern hardware to support it out of the box?
post #26 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zauner View Post

The "full-size" Display Port is roughly as big/small as a USB port. I don't see any practical reason why this had to be repaced by a mini version.

My MBP early 08 has a full-size DVI port and 2 firewire ports, yet it's smaller in dimensions than the late 08 MBP. What a miracle of product design!

I agree completely.

Apple used to use custom monitor ports and firmware (ADC, Old/New World ROM), and people complained they weren't being interoperable. So they changed to Mini DisplayPort and EFI which are standards, but which are so new, the effect is the same: still not interoperable.

Be sure that as soon as EFI and Mini-DP are widespread, Apple will move on to something else. You will have to buy your Mac peripherals from Apple, always.
post #27 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm amazed at all the animosity at Apple for dropping SL-DVI-D, DL-DVI-I, mini-DVI-D and micro-DVI-D in favour a single display connector for all their devices. Especially one that is considerably future-forward over the other available options.

So this will be the display connector to end all display connectors?

Pardon but I think I have heard that before.

For a start it doesn't even necessarily do the obvious of including audio in it.
post #28 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'm amazed at all the animosity at Apple for dropping SL-DVI-D, DL-DVI-I, mini-DVI-D and micro-DVI-D in favour a single display connector for all their devices. Especially one that is considerably future-forward over the other available options.

If options weren't lost in the process, there wouldn't be animosity. If Mini/Micro-DVI did not have connections to full-size DVI and Video out, there would have been animosity there too. Likewise, if there would have been additional adapters for video out, full-DP, and HDMI and the new cinema display was not completely locked to Mini-DP, moving to this port world have been a non-issue like Mini-DVI and Micro-DVI before it. Apple has handled its implementation in a way that left users guessing if Apple was trying to box them in.
post #29 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel84 View Post

Except that VGA is not superior and HDMI only supports resolutions up to 1920x1080 which isn't any good for computer monitors above 24-26 inches.

HDMI can support larger resolutions right now, such as 4k. Just that no one has done it yet.
post #30 of 75
The VESA web site refers to "Mobile Display Device Interface Standard (MDDI) 1.2". Is this the same as DisplayPort?
post #31 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

Assuming the mini-DP connector gains all the capabilities of the full-size one, why would anyone bother with the latter in the future? More puzzling - why didn't VESA shrink the original down to the smallest size possible when they had the chance?

You could ask the same thing about Apple's Mini DVI and Micro DVI. But Apple defenders don't criticize Apple for that. Yet they still criticize VESA even though the full size DisplayPort is already much smaller than a standard DVI connector. What's next from Apple? Micro DisplayPort? Nano DisplayPort?
post #32 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

The DisplayPort spec already includes audio and, as Ksec says, Mini DisplayPort is pin to pin compatible. Not sure why Apple chose not to do audio in their implementation.

Daisy chaining displays is another feature that seems to be unsupported by Apple. It goes to show that no matter what features DisplayPort can support, some manufacturers will simply provide token support-- supporting the absolute minimum level of functionality just so they have an excuse to claim that they follow the standard.
post #33 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by gastroboy View Post

So this will be the display connector to end all display connectors?

Pardon but I think I have heard that before.

For a start it doesn't even necessarily do the obvious of including audio in it.

Huh? How in the world do you get such a finite answer by me stating that Apple will use it on all their machines and it's more future-forward than other offerings. Tech evolves at a fast pace, but at least with DP, and now mDP being free and part of the spec, we can expect a standard connector from Apple longer than we saw with some of their other options. Would you really have had Apple stick with DL-DVI-I just so you don't have to change your adapters? HOw about going back to ADC or VGA?


Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig View Post

If options weren't lost in the process, there wouldn't be animosity. If Mini/Micro-DVI did not have connections to full-size DVI and Video out, there would have been animosity there too. Likewise, if there would have been additional adapters for video out, full-DP, and HDMI and the new cinema display was not completely locked to Mini-DP, moving to this port world have been a non-issue like Mini-DVI and Micro-DVI before it. Apple has handled its implementation in a way that left users guessing if Apple was trying to box them in.

If you need a certain adapter then you'll have to wait until Apple or a 3rd-party supplies it. One should wait to buy a new Mac or buy a refurbished previous-gen Mac if the connecting to an external display is a requirement. Since it's free and part of the standard we will see adapters shortly. I think Monoprice advertised a time for later this month.
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post #34 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tauron View Post

As usual the dog (apple) leads while the sheep (windows) follows.

I know, it's hilarious aint it?

Two Button Mouse
Intel Processors
Notebooks
USB
Ethernet
Compact Disk
Blu-Ray
Mobile Phone OS

Oh, better stop there, not really working out as planned!
post #35 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Would you really have had Apple stick with DL-DVI-I just so you don't have to change your adapters? HOw about going back to ADC or VGA?

Interesting that you left out the choice of full size DisplayPort which currently has greater industry support than Apple's MIni DisplayPort. And in the place of full size DisplayPort, you put in ADC. Great way to ask a loaded question.
post #36 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If you need a certain adapter then you'll have to wait until Apple or a 3rd-party supplies it. One should wait to buy a new Mac or buy a refurbished previous-gen Mac if the connecting to an external display is a requirement. Since it's free and part of the standard we will see adapters shortly. I think Monoprice advertised a time for later this month.

It wasn't free and part of the standard when released. If apple had actually communicated rather than taking the "we like it, so you're going to use it approach", much of this would have been avoided. What users saw was a new port, with fewer connection options and no word from Apple when or if those options would ever arrive form Apple or a third party. Users had no idea if once DVI and VGA were full phased out in favor of DP and HDMI would they be able to buy a non-Apple display or if they would ever be able to hook their Mac up to a TV or projector.
post #37 of 75
Quote:
CES 2009: HDMI Introduces Next Generation Specification
Posted January 7, 2009 11:55 PM by J.C. Ribera

HDMI Licensing, LLC the agent responsible licensing the High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) specification has announced five key capabilities and features that will be introduced on the next version of their HDMI technology, which will launch in the first half of 2009.

"HDMI has reached an installed base of more than 600 million devices and now touches almost every consumer device that plays HD content. We want to give the industry a preview of where the HDMI specification is headed as we continue to innovate and meet the needs of this dynamic marketplace," said Steve Venuti, president of HDMI Licensing, LLC.

In the upcoming spec, HDMI will address key industry trends, which will include five innovative features, such as 3D capability, Ethernet connections, and increased resolution performance.

Networking
Consolidation of HD video, HD audio and now high speed data with the addition on Ethernet in the HDMI cable.

Audio Return Channel
Elimination of a S/PDIF cable by allowing for a TV to send audio streams upstream to an A/V receiver for processing and playback over the HDMI cable.

Performance
4K x 2K and 3D are high performance features to be met by increasing the upper limit of the HDMI link.

HD In Your Car
New connector specification for the auto industry as the world's largest auto makers move to digital HD video and audio for 21st century cars with HDMI.

Smaller connector
New, smaller 19-pin connector

Sounds pretty good to me.
post #38 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimMcDosh View Post

Seems Apple is staying one step ahead of the rest!

www.anonweb.pro.tc

No idea what your talking about.

You surely are not equating 'private browsing' with this are you?

You either have no even looked at the link you gave or you have no concept of what 'private browsing' actually does, which to be honest is not that much.
post #39 of 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

HOw about going back to ADC or VGA?

Can't. Apple changed the connectors, remember?
post #40 of 75
I know it's crazy talk, but just imagine this:

All devices, all manufacturers, get together to develop one single standard. Imagine both sides of your laptop being lined with a row of small round holes for plugging in anything you like. The power cord, a mouse, a monitor, an iPhone, a camera, a printer, a blender.....Well maybe not a blender.

Amen
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