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The Preemptive Betrayed by the Messiah Thread - Page 2

post #41 of 132


But don't feel betrayed...he's promised to not smoke in the White House. But you know that once he gets down to business, all bets are off.

And trumptman, use this image with glee. I know you will.
post #42 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Okey dokey, let's get back on track.

There is a substantial body of right wing rhetoric that is pleased to pretend like Obama is viewed by his supporters as a "messiah" and that such supporters fully expect him to wave his magic wand and fix all that is wrong with America. This notion has been articulated on these boards, repeatedly, but it more importantly figures to be a repeated line of attack from the right during the Obama administration.

So, any given narcissist hereabouts not withstanding, I think it makes sense to articulate some of the perspective that liberals and Obama supporters bring to the new administration.

For my money, and as I have said, a lot of this involves the very low bar that has been set. An Obama administration doesn't have to be magic to do a much better job at governance, they just have to execute reasonably well without an incredibly blinkered ideological agenda backed with near total reliance on PR and message management calling all the shots.

At the same time, I (and every "liberal" that I know) do not expect miracles. I don't even expect all that much "liberalism", although I'm sure the contrast with the regressive thugs that came before will be striking. And I certainly intend to speak up when Obama makes choices that I think are wrong for the country, which I have no doubt he will.

I am impressed, though, that taking note of this (very widespread, very overt, and likely to be ongoing) wielding of a cartoon straw man of Obama and his supporters is itself (of course) being characterized as a cartoon and straw man.

Did I say "impressed"? I meant "bored to tears."

At any rate, I started this thread for a reason. As the "I bet the liberals are crying bitter tears now" threads and right wing noise rolls on in, we have a handy repository to check in with.

I don't mind you talking to the voices in your head. Just give me my socks back and stop using them for hand puppets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

But don't feel betrayed he's promised to not smoke in the White House. But you know that once he gets down to business, all bets are off.

And trumptman, use this image with glee. I know you will.

Where is that picture from? Actually, I don't think I've ever posted a pic of Obama smoking unless I'm mistaken and included it in the photo caption thread.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #43 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post



But don't feel betrayed...he's promised to not smoke in the White House. But you know that once he gets down to business, all bets are off.

And trumptman, use this image with glee. I know you will.

Actually, that's what the TeeVee told me yesterday with respect to LBJ (if I recall correctly). Apparently, after he left office he quite literally smoked himself to death.

The conservative blog-o-smear will look upon this with glee, hoping and praying Obama smokes himself to death while in office, as this is a much easier way of assassination.
Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #44 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Actually, I don't think I've ever posted a pic of Obama smoking unless I'm mistaken and included it in the photo caption thread.

??? ???

Uh, the one from 20 odd years ago with Obama wearing a Panama hat? The one that got you started with whether it was a joint or not? The one that has been debunked far and wide?

Quote:
Where is that picture from?

Anyway...here is the original pic's URL

http://students.washington.edu/lutho...ma_smoking.jpg

So it might have been taken at Washington University by a student.
post #45 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I don't mind you talking to the voices in your head. Just give me my socks back and stop using them for hand puppets.

Yessir, the voices in my head such as

Quote:

Originally posted by Trumptman
They can both be bad but Obama makes out much worse for it. See McCain polls 40-42% as a human being and a typical politician. Obama polls 45-48% as the messiah.

When Obama becomes just a regular guy instead of a once in a generation messianic change-agent who will lead us into a beautiful, peaceful, nuclear-free, carbon-neutral, post-partisan world, he will probably need even more money to buy votes and it will be even harder for him to maintain that lead
.

which is totally different from the kind of thing I'm talking about.

And isn't, itself, entirely a straw man and cartoon and sock puppet, which in no way makes my point.

So I guess you must have me there!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #46 of 132


All your base belong to Obama.
post #47 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post



But don't feel betrayed...he's promised to not smoke in the White House. But you know that once he gets down to business, all bets are off.

And trumptman, use this image with glee. I know you will.

You know when I see things like this my first feeling is that we've got a real person in there for a change. I don't see that as a negative ( even if it might be in his health ). But it speaks of a real guy that's not trying to be larger than life. That makes me feel more affirmative about him. Just a feeling.

Now trumptman before you start I'm not an advocate of smoking. I quit over 2 years ago.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #48 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

??? ???

Uh, the one from 20 odd years ago with Obama wearing a Panama hat? The one that got you started with whether it was a joint or not? The one that has been debunked far and wide?



Anyway...here is the original pic's URL

http://students.washington.edu/lutho...ma_smoking.jpg

So it might have been taken at Washington University by a student.

I remember him talking about that.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #49 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

??? ???

Uh, the one from 20 odd years ago with Obama wearing a Panama hat? The one that got you started with whether it was a joint or not? The one that has been debunked far and wide?

First your definition of debunked and mine must be different because saying "Dude that totally looks like a cig" when someone else says" Dude that totally looks like a joint" isn't debunked in my view.

Shows how mind classifies things though, I didn't think of that as a picture of Obama smoking a cigarette so I didn't remember it as a picture of him smoking. (When people say smoking that is what I think of first)

Quote:
Anyway...here is the original pic's URL

http://students.washington.edu/lutho...ma_smoking.jpg

So it might have been taken at Washington University by a student.

I'm not sure that is a real picture of him smoking though. Maybe it is just made up. There isn't any smoke from either cigarette.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #50 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First your definition of debunked and mine must be different because saying "Dude that totally looks like a cig" when someone else says" Dude that totally looks like a joint" isn't debunked in my view.

Shows how mind classifies things though, I didn't think of that as a picture of Obama smoking a cigarette so I didn't remember it as a picture of him smoking. (When people say smoking that is what I think of first)

I'm not sure that is a real picture of him smoking though. Maybe it is just made up. There isn't any smoke from either cigarette.

trump, sometimes you baffle the fuck out of me.
post #51 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

First your definition of debunked and mine must be different because saying "Dude that totally looks like a cig" when someone else says" Dude that totally looks like a joint" isn't debunked in my view.

Shows how mind classifies things though, I didn't think of that as a picture of Obama smoking a cigarette so I didn't remember it as a picture of him smoking. (When people say smoking that is what I think of first)



I'm not sure that is a real picture of him smoking though. Maybe it is just made up. There isn't any smoke from either cigarette.


Actually if you zoom in it clearly looks lit and resembles a cigarette more than anything else.

I blew it up to about 400%.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #52 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

trump, sometimes you baffle the fuck out of me.

Please explain.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #53 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Please explain.

These are little, inconsequential things, one that was a mere blip in the media and the other not even known (as far as I know, that photo hasn't circulated...and it is not Photoshopped). But you make it into a conspiracy theory of enormous proportions.

And you did rant about it.

Your fixation on the media is getting tired. Like I said, turn off the fucking TeeVee. Cancel your subscriptions.

Bob doesn't read Time magazine, and neither should you.
post #54 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

These are little, inconsequential things, one that was a mere blip in the media and the other not even known (as far as I know, that photo hasn't circulated...and it is not Photoshopped). But you make it into a conspiracy theory of enormous proportions.

And you did rant about it.

Your fixation on the media is getting tired. Like I said, turn off the fucking TeeVee. Cancel your subscriptions.

Bob doesn't read Time magazine, and neither should you.

Well I think little things are all the arguments the right has left ( oh a pun right/left..... ). Anyway I seem to find that they're nitpicking. Obama hasn't really had enough time to do much wrong yet. Bush has really proven to be a disaster. and you can't help but look at the end result of 8 years ( 6 all republican ) of rule without going " What the fuck were you guys thinking? ". So if you try to stick to your ideaology and still find reasons at this point to stick the other side with you have only little things to work with.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #55 of 132
I voted for him, just like I would approve blueprints for a new house.

I still reserve the right to complain or be unhappy with the builder. It's not my fault if he doesn't build to spec. All I can do is watch and hope.

I want to see what he can actually do in office before I run naked in the streets screaming my love for the man.

5 down...495 to go....
post #56 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

I voted for him, just like I would approve blueprints for a new house.

I still reserve the right to complain or be unhappy with the builder. It's not my fault if he doesn't build to spec. All I can do is watch and hope.

I want to see what he can actually do in office before I run naked in the streets screaming my love for the man.

5 down...495 to go....


Yes that's all anyone can do ( he said crossing his fingers ).

However he's got a long way to go if he's going to be as bad as the last one.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #57 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by @_@ Artman View Post

These are little, inconsequential things, one that was a mere blip in the media and the other not even known (as far as I know, that photo hasn't circulated...and it is not Photoshopped). But you make it into a conspiracy theory of enormous proportions.

And you did rant about it.

Your fixation on the media is getting tired. Like I said, turn off the fucking TeeVee. Cancel your subscriptions.

Bob doesn't read Time magazine, and neither should you.

I have no idea what you are talking about. I said it doesn't look like a real photo of Obama smoking to me and just looks like something someone would put together to put him in a negative light.

If I read this right, I'm now nuts for defending Obama.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #58 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I have no idea what you are talking about. I said it doesn't look like a real photo of Obama smoking to me and just looks like something someone would put together to put him in a negative light.

I hate to use a meme from 2008, but I've seen (and done) a lot of Photoshops in my time, and that image is real. I can tell from the pixels. So what? He smokes, he admits he smokes, he says it will be hard, but he'll try to quit. Good fucking Lord, he's human!

Quote:
If I read this right, I'm now nuts for defending Obama.

Well, it's a start.
post #59 of 132


...Obama's a Samurai.
post #60 of 132
Thread Starter 
About that straw man thing......
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #61 of 132
Thread Starter 
Again:

Quote:
Originally posted by Trumptman
They can both be bad but Obama makes out much worse for it. See McCain polls 40-42% as a human being and a typical politician. Obama polls 45-48% as the messiah.

When Obama becomes just a regular guy instead of a once in a generation messianic change-agent who will lead us into a beautiful, peaceful, nuclear-free, carbon-neutral, post-partisan world, he will probably need even more money to buy votes and it will be even harder for him to maintain that lead.

Of course there's plenty more where that came from.

So how is the topic of this thread a straw man or puppet or whatever?

Signed,

Anxiously awaiting
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #62 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Again:

Of course there's plenty more where that came from.

So how is the topic of this thread a straw man or puppet or whatever?

Signed,

Anxiously awaiting

What is wrong with that? Obama spent more than any candidate ever? The man raised three-quarter of a billion dollars to get to office.

If you want to find Obama messianic imagery, you don't have to hit trumptman posts, you can hit the daily show, SNL skits, pretty much anything. It isn't hard at all to find and it isn't just from the right.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #63 of 132
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

What is wrong with that? Obama spent more than any candidate ever? The man raised three-quarter of a billion dollars to get to office.

If you want to find Obama messianic imagery, you don't have to hit trumptman posts, you can hit the daily show, SNL skits, pretty much anything. It isn't hard at all to find and it isn't just from the right.

OK, great, now we're getting somewhere.

So then the premise of the thread is that there has been a kind of straw man being set-up: that Obama's supporters uniformly regard him a "the one", "the messiah", that they fully expect him to heal all wounds and fix the country by magic and usher in a new golden age; and that there will inevitably follow a great deal of bwa-ha-ha-ing and general celebratory snark from the right when Obama, as he inevitably will, does things that the left don't like, or behaves like a politician, or comports himself poorly.

And I thought I'd start a thread were people could talk about their actual misgivings, reality checks, etc., because I maintain all this talk of mindless devotion is largely coming from the right and has never been anything but an obvious and overt manipulation of the expectations game, an effort to set the bar so high that Obama cannot but fail.

Yeah? So if we're through pretending that nobody ever said any such thing, I would like to proceed from the idea that liberals have been and remain guardedly optimistic about the prospects of an Obama administration, while being fully capable of being disappointed without having their entire world view collapse around them, in that they never actually believed Obama to be some kind of super human über liberal redeemer.

While at the same time allowing for a fair amount of slack, owing to the appalling track record of the previous administration.

Doesn't even seem that debatable, to me, I don't see why it was necessary for anyone to get all cranky about the outlandish idea that conservatives would like to make hay out of the "Obamessiah" meme.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #64 of 132
Thread Starter 
Also, despite whoever thinking whatever, I did not intend this thread to be a referendum on any particular poster hereabouts. Obviously, opinions expressed here frequently mirror opinions expressed nationally; local versions offer expedient examples, is all.

In that spirit, here's more of what I'm talking about, here, here, here, and here.

And the inevitable "then the liberals will cry bitter tears", here and here.

Just a representative sampling; I don't have time to wade through the reams of material available.

I think it's pretty clear that this in no way constitutes some of kind generally accepted shorthand for how Obama is perceived by his "followers" or "the media" but rather a rather obvious campaign to set the guy up for a fall, one that is predicated on a willful and wildly disproportionate burlesque of what Obama's supporters generally think. Naturally their are zealots, I submit they do not make up a significant percentage of the people who wish Obama well.

And, again (I'm getting sort of tired of repeating this but somehow the topic keeps getting shifted to bats and fire and gibbering monkeys, or something, not quite sure how) it is very clear indeed, for anyone who follows liberal commentary, that all of this is simply horse shit.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #65 of 132
When Obama leaves office at the end of his term and the next president is in/watching the parade, there won't be any fan-club TV channels lovingly following him as he touches down in his hometown and gives a speech like there was for Bush. The same channels that didn't show Bush doing that this time around will be doing the same thing next time: focusing on the incoming president, not dwelling in the past while trying to belittle the present and future.

One network seemed to follow their messiah ...

Bleh, you get the picture.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #66 of 132

I got the picture.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #67 of 132
In the 3 days he'sbeen at the helm, he's righted 3 wrongs already:

1. Signed order to close Gitmo.
2. Signed order to end abortion gag rule.
3. Banning the use of torture when questioning terror suspects.
post #68 of 132
4. Returned access to presidential records to their pre-Bush-era-of-secrecy levels, increasing freedom of information.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #69 of 132
The Obama administration also just tried to have the pool reports posted on their blog so that *everyone* could see them. The press wouldn't let them.
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post #70 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter View Post

The press wouldn't let them.

Damn dirty pinko liberal commies!







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post #71 of 132
At the end of Wednesday’s CBS Early Show, co-host Harry Smith reflected on Barack Obama’s inauguration: "Politics, and patriotism, and the presidency. It is the place where the secular and the religious merge. And one of the sacraments of our national religion is the inauguration...So it was that as many as 2 million pilgrims made their way to Washington and the Mall to witness this most sacred event."

Smith continued to use religious language throughout the report: "As the oath was recited, as the speech was delivered...emotions were laid bear. Tears were shed...An inauguration is a renewal of faith...A confirmation that the republic, and our belief in it, endures."


Thank goodness those secular humanists aren't practicing any sort of civic religion.


COWAN: We even found doctors with a TV in the operating room who paused before surgery on a young Marine. In the end, though, it really didn't matter where you were as long as you weren't alone. Just ordinary street corners like this one here in Chicago fell silent, almost becoming a political cathedral of sorts. And almost everyone was making that mental scrapbook, noting the time and place where they were on this day and, perhaps, shared a collective tear.

Wow wow wow


Also thank goodness the association of President Barack Obama with religious iconography is just some meme of the right.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #72 of 132
Anybody who knows their American history understands the historical significance of Obama's inauguration.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #73 of 132
Thread Starter 
Observers of the American scene frequently speak of our relationship to our governmental institutions as a kind of secular religion, and there's nothing at all unusual in regarding a presidential inauguration as a great occasion in the observance of same.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #74 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Anybody who knows their American history understands the historical significance of Obama's inauguration.

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Observers of the American scene frequently speak of our relationship to our governmental institutions as a kind of secular religion, and there's nothing at all unusual in regarding a presidential inauguration as a great occasion in the observance of same.


This shit is just funny.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #75 of 132
Hey look guyz, even more!

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #76 of 132
let people build shrines: commemorative plates, coins, candles. massive huge posters like Mao, or stalin, his policies are his framework for america's future. from what he has done so far, and his priorities, my president is wrong
I APPLE THEREFORE I AM
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post #77 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


This shit is just funny.

Enough.

I remember seeing images of George Bush with a halo, George Bush deep in thought with the ghost of Abraham Lincoln putting his hand on his shoulder and all sorts of nonsense, made without satire by George Bush cheerleaders. There was a website called georgebushisgod satirising this stuff.

They laid it on thick after 2001. It was repellent, and I remember it very well even if you've conveniently forgotten it.

Don't pretend this is new.

Edit: here's the Wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/200409190...ushislord.com/
post #78 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

Enough.

I remember seeing images of George Bush with a halo, George Bush deep in thought with the ghost of Abraham Lincoln putting his hand on his shoulder and all sorts of nonsense, made without satire by George Bush cheerleaders. There was a website called georgebushisgod satirising this stuff.

They laid it on thick after 2001. It was repellent, and I remember it very well even if you've conveniently forgotten it.

Don't pretend this is new.

Edit: here's the Wayback machine http://web.archive.org/web/200409190...ushislord.com/

Sorry, NOT ENOUGH.

I remember no Bush halo photos. However I do remember a rather strong discussion on here about Huckabee and his amazing subliminal floating cross.









Look, it is that evil right wing mag, Rolling Stone making light come off Obama while calling him "The New Hope!"

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #79 of 132
and dont forget the fundie summercamps, where brainwashed 5 year olds had a religious indoctrination into gw's brand of republicanism.
post #80 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Sorry, NOT ENOUGH.

You forgot the Bush halos?

How convenient. They were everywhere in 2002 when we were all saying 'If we go into Iraq it will be a disaster'.





(Above from a website called 'retakingamerica'



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