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Apple updates white 13-inch MacBook to NVIDIA architecture - Page 2

post #41 of 119
1/21/09 at 8:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

It could just be that it was too expensive to redesign the case without the Firewire port. Apple would never leave an unused hole in the case or plug it with a blank (like some other manufacturers do).

Could they have simply used the motherboard from the MBP, which supports Firewire, but use the MB's chipset for CPU and graphics? Of course, I guess they'd still need to get the DisplayPort converted to mini-DVI. But that would allow them to update the white MB without creating a whole new motherboard or a new case.

Guess we'll juset have to wait until someone gets their hands on one and tears it apart.

I guess I don't really know how usable the MBP motherboard might be for this new white MB. Is there a significant motherboard change going from FW800 to FW400? Regardless, the fact that Apple did make a significant update to the white MB and kept Firewire seems to make the lack of FW on the aluminum MBs more of a head-scratcher (whatever the real reason for it's removal).
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post #42 of 119
1/21/09 at 8:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I the "stupid conclusion" that was meant, was that this configuration was intentionally crippled by Apple.

Why do people always have to immediately assume Apple is "up to no good" when they have never shown any such indications throughout the entire life of the company? As far as corporations go, Apple is one of the most responsible and the most customer focussed, they have ridiculously high levels of customer service, excellent reviews by those same customers and are pretty good to their employees overall. I just don't understand why so many people's first reactions to something Apple has done is to assume some nefarious plot is in the works.

Thank you.
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post #43 of 119
1/21/09 at 8:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Dammit, where is my updated mini? If they can update the whitebook they can update the mini...

Only one updated product a week.
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post #44 of 119
1/21/09 at 9:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Only one updated product a week.

If any.
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post #45 of 119
1/21/09 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by hledgard View Post

I find this as good news. The plastic MacBook was a great design. I have the new aluminum MacBook, and my daughter has the white. The white appears much more durable. And the 999 is important.

The aluminum still wins on the trackpad and lower weight.

I have the white MacBook and I don't have a lot of experience with the Aluminum, so I'll take your word on that. But I can tell you, after about a year, my MacBook's plastic parts started chipping off. The infamous "splinters" coming off of the palm rest started to happen to me - this was probably the result of carrying it around in my backpack for so long. Still, when I replace my ol' Whitey, I'll splurge and get something with an aluminum casing.
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post #46 of 119
1/21/09 at 9:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

This certainly debunks the notion that the motherboard change is what kept Firewire off of the aluminum MacBooks. Could this new model with FW400 indicate that Apple has listened to the cries and will restore Firewire of some flavor across the product line?

No, it doesn't debunk anything. The motherboard in the new white macbooks is basically the old motherboard with the nvidia chipset instead of an intel one. Since that motherboard has room for a firewire port, apple was able to keep the firewire port. However, the motherboard in the the aluminum macbooks has no room for a firewire port. It was simply designed smaller. Firewire can return to the aluminum macbooks if apple uses a slightly smaller battery to make more room on the bottom left side of the notebook, but reducing battery life and stocking another battery model seems unlikely. It's more likely for Apple to wait for when the macbooks get an unswappable battery like the 17 inch pro.
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post #47 of 119
1/21/09 at 9:47am
I recall our discussions on the Mac Mini that it was one of only a few pieces of hardware yet to move to a 1066Mhz FSB.

Now we have one less piece of hardware not exhibiting this minimum.

I expect the Mac Mini to make the move to that as well and thus you can draw inferences onto which CPUs may or may not be chosen for it.
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post #48 of 119
1/21/09 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Their is no "so now" about it. The polycarb MB has always had a FW400 port.

By "so now" I meant that the white macbook is now less of a legacy product than it was previously. Yes, it's an 'old' design, but the internals have been updated to match current specs.
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post #49 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:04am
2ghz core 2 duo. Check
9400M graphics. Check
Firewire and TDM Check
affordable price Check
Replacement for G3 iBook found.
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post #50 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:09am
I am fresh in the market for a new macbook and was set to drop the extra money on an aluminum model until this morning. My concern is that ddr2 bottle-neck and if I'll be able to sleep at night (regardless of whether or not it will actually effect me in any way). Since I'd like 4GB anyway, can I update to 4GB DDR3 and no longer be crippled?
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post #51 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by acslater017 View Post

Still, when I replace my ol' Whitey...

everyone is replacing their ol' Whitey
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post #52 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:14am
I was just thinking that if someone had suggested that the white MB was going to get upgraded to near feature parity with the AL MB, they would have been laughed off the forums... I'm going to keep my mind open when I hear the next crazy ass prediction.
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post #53 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I was just thinking that if someone had suggested that the white MB was going to get upgraded to near feature parity with the AL MB, they would have been laughed off the forums... I'm going to keep my mind open when I hear the next crazy ass prediction.

Probably. I was expecting this old-body MB to last a good year, I would have only expected a default RAM amonunt and HDD capacity upgrade. Not a MoBo change.
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post #54 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:26am
This is a bit disappointing as it sort of rules out a price drop for the aluminium lineup any time soon.

I was hoping, as many others probably were that the white model would be phased out and the aluminium model would drop to the price of the white one sooner rather than later.

Now, all the aluminium one really has is the enclosure vs the white one and it's a fair bit more expensive and without firewire.

I think the metal enclosure is far better than aluminium but when people are struggling to justify paying for a machine at all, they should have taken a hit on the new ones. People now know the aluminium ones exist and if they can't afford them just now, they will just hold off and Apple will lose their sales for a few months.
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post #55 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:31am
So when do they re-name it "The MacBook Classic"?
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post #56 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:37am
i am super pissed i just got a macbook in nov the white one... and now they upgrade it WTF, why does apple do this? i am gonna try to sell mine on craigslist, or something. this pisses me off...
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post #57 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:38am
Since the arcitecture is still the 9400M, it supports 1066mhz ddr 3 ram. So you would have to buy the ram on your own even if apple doesn't put it on their website. Now, the only question i have is that the ram speed might be 800 mhz, not 667 mhz, because i don't think the 9400m can support 667 ddr2. but i could be wrong. But for sure, you can put 1066mhz ddr3 ram into the new white macbook.
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post #58 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:41am
I'm still waiting for the bullies over at Greenpeace to chime in on this.

Apple has stated a "goal" of eliminating certain plastics and toxins from it's products by the end of 2008. Previous to this, Apple could say that they were trying to reach the goal with each new product, but are still a bit short given the existence of some of the older product line. In other words they could say that they didn't have time to switch out those products for more green alternatives so far. The production of this notebook on the other hand (assuming it still has da bad stuff in it), can only be seen as an intentional decision to not worry about that for now.

Anyone know definitively if this new MB is still toxic or not?
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post #59 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortarican4711 View Post

i am super pissed i just got a macbook in nov the white one... and now they upgrade it WTF, why does apple do this? i am gonna try to sell mine on craigslist, or something. this pisses me off...

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post #60 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwhitney View Post

Since I'd like 4GB anyway, can I update to 4GB DDR3 and no longer be crippled?

No. DDR3 uses a different voltage and has a different number of pins. Whilst the chipset can support DDR3, it has to be hard-wired on the motherboard as such, the correct power supply must be provided on the motherboard for the RAM, and the correct slots must be used.
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post #61 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tazaracsp View Post

But for sure, you can put 1066mhz ddr3 ram into the new white macbook.

No you can't. See post above.
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post #62 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Anyone know definitively if this new MB is still toxic or not?

No- but some posts on AI certainly are.
Remember: we have entered a new era of civility.
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post #63 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortarican4711 View Post

i am super pissed i just got a macbook in nov the white one... and now they upgrade it WTF, why does apple do this? i am gonna try to sell mine on craigslist, or something. this pisses me off...

Breaking news! Computers get faster all the time and what you buy now will be out of date soon. Get used to it!
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post #64 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Anyone know definitively if this new MB is still toxic or not?

I'd guess this hinges on whether they've upgraded the display or not. With this motherboard change (which doubtless is a toxic-free MB) they've most likely updated all the cabling to non-toxic as well. That would leave the display and backlight as a potential source of toxic chemicals.
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post #65 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortarican4711 View Post

i am super pissed i just got a macbook in nov the white one... and now they upgrade it WTF, why does apple do this? i am gonna try to sell mine on craigslist, or something. this pisses me off...

Yeah, Apple should keep the same old hardware for decades, just so they don't upset anyone who purchased the older hardware. They should have called you to make sure you were okay with them building a better computer.

Your lesson is this: don't ever buy a new computer, because after you do, a better one will come along. Just keep waiting.
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post #66 of 119
1/21/09 at 10:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Yeah, Apple should keep the same old hardware for decades, just so they don't upset anyone who purchased the older hardware. They should have called you to make sure you were okay with them building a better computer.

Your lesson is this: don't ever buy a new computer, because after you do, a better one will come along. Just keep waiting.

im just sayin that it should have all been introdced at once
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post #67 of 119
1/21/09 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John.B View Post

Dammit, where is my updated mini?

The more I think about this (yes, I've been stewing over this all morning, can you tell?)...

I may just make one of these new whitebooks my "mini". I need better graphics than the X3100 in my Late 2007 blackbook so my kid can play games like Spore, etc. I'm thinking that he could use a new whitebook with better graphics in clamshell mode in the same way he's been using my blackbook in clamshell mode, but this way I'd get my MacBook back.

The current mini with 2.0 GHz Core2Duo, 1GB (no SR), SuperDrive, GMA950, and FW400 is eight benjamins; this has the option to be portable and has basically the same specs or better for two benjamins more (2.0 GHz, 2GB, SuperDrive, 9400M, 13" LCD, FW400).

OTOH, it'd be my luck that AAPL would update the mini 15 days after I bought one of these...

Regardless, I think they are going to sell truckloads of these at the $999 price point.

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post #68 of 119
1/21/09 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

No. DDR3 uses a different voltage and has a different number of pins. Whilst the chipset can support DDR3, it has to be hard-wired on the motherboard as such, the correct power supply must be provided on the motherboard for the RAM, and the correct slots must be used.

To quantify what you have stated correctly:

DDR2 Double Data Rate DRAM are 200Pin DIMMS.

DDR3 Triple Data Rate DRAM are 204Pin DIMMS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

The I/O data rate bumps from 333Mhz [DDR2-667Mhz] to 533Mhz [DDR3-1066Mhz], while the Power consumptions drops by 30% nominally. The Memory clock for DDR2-667Mhz is 166Mhz. The Memory clock for DDR3-1066Mhz is 133Mhz which can account for the reduction in power consumption.
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post #69 of 119
1/21/09 at 11:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

You would think that anybody who has been complaining about the New MacBooks sans FireWire would be happy. But then who the hell would be so stupid to think that?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr_lha View Post

A pretty nice upgrade really, especially if you don't care about the case and want Firewire..

I want FW and the better trackpad, dammit! And a personal jet pack. And a pony.

But seriously, I don't want a 15" notebook, I want all the rest of the new machine and fracking FW already.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I the "stupid conclusion" that was meant, was that this configuration was intentionally crippled by Apple.

Why do people always have to immediately assume Apple is "up to no good" when they have never shown any such indications throughout the entire life of the company? As far as corporations go, Apple is one of the most responsible and the most customer focussed, they have ridiculously high levels of customer service, excellent reviews by those same customers and are pretty good to their employees overall. I just don't understand why so many people's first reactions to something Apple has done is to assume some nefarious plot is in the works.

Apple is NOT up to NO good. They're up to Apple's good, and mgmt has long seen that as being served by "line differentiation" -- making you buy a bunch of features you don't want in order to get one or two you do, e.g., in this case, a bigger form factor, another video card, etc. to get Firewire.

It's like "packs" on cars. Want the heated seats? Sorry, only available with the moon roof and spoiler package. etc.

Not moral or immoral. More amoral. And has always PO'd me at Apple as they do it more than most hardware manufacturers.

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post #70 of 119
1/21/09 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

To quantify what you have stated correctly:

DDR2 Double Data Rate DRAM are 200Pin DIMMS.

DDR3 Triple Data Rate DRAM are 204Pin DIMMS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

The I/O data rate bumps from 333Mhz [DDR2-667Mhz] to 533Mhz [DDR3-1066Mhz], while the Power consumptions drops by 30% nominally. The Memory clock for DDR2-667Mhz is 166Mhz. The Memory clock for DDR3-1066Mhz is 133Mhz which can account for the reduction in power consumption.

Thanks for this. Hadn't fully appreciated that the memory clock is lower for 1066 DDR3 vs. 667 DDR2; whilst this does contribute to the lower power consumption, the main factor is the lower voltage (DDR2 =1.8 V, DDR3 = 1.5 V).

There's a typo in your post above - DDR3 is still "double data rate" (somewhat of a misnomer now), not "triple data rate".
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post #71 of 119
1/21/09 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H View Post

Thanks for this. Hadn't fully appreciated that the memory clock is lower for 1066 DDR3 vs. 667 DDR2; whilst this does contribute to the lower power consumption, the main factor is the lower voltage (DDR2 =1.8 V, DDR3 = 1.5 V).

There's a typo in your post above - DDR3 is still "double data rate" (somewhat of a misnomer now), not "triple data rate".

My apologies. I thought I'd edited that portion. And since the Voltage rate is Periodic, the lower frequency means a longer period and thus they are mutually dependent variables on the power consumption.
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post #72 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:06pm
Would this also improve battery life or is the 9400M more power hungry than the GMA X3100?
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post #73 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:11pm
Is there hope for a black model? Heck if your going to keep this model around, might as well give users a color choice.

I always thought the black ones looked better than the white ones.
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post #74 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

I think this is a good sign that Apple sees it needs to be more competitive with it's low-end models.
Hopefully we will see a well specd Mac mini for $499 or $599.

I think that Apple should offer a black version of this model and NOT charge more. I think they would sell a lot of them. White is just not cool for most users who are not kids!

This would do a lot to make it more attractive to more people. If you can not afford the 1300-1600 bucks for a MacBook you might have the 925.00 ( discount) for an awesome black one WITH firewire 400!!!
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post #75 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sortarican4711 View Post

im just sayin that it should have all been introdced at once

Yeah, that's a good point - it would have been better to improve the plastic MacBook at the same time as introducing the newer ones (just two months ago). I didn't think of that part of it.
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post #76 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

... Apple is NOT up to NO good. They're up to Apple's good, and mgmt has long seen that as being served by "line differentiation" -- making you buy a bunch of features you don't want in order to get one or two you do, e.g., in this case, a bigger form factor, another video card, etc. to get Firewire.

It's like "packs" on cars. Want the heated seats? Sorry, only available with the moon roof and spoiler package. etc.

Not moral or immoral. More amoral. And has always PO'd me at Apple as they do it more than most hardware manufacturers.

We'll have to disagree on this one.

I don't buy the premise that "business is business" or some such and not morally or ethically concerned. If you are in the business of making consumer products and actively trying to screw the consumers for the single reason of more cash, then (IMO) you are "up to no good" and not being very smart business-wise to boot. In other words I don't believe that the presence of capitalism makes moral or ethical behaviour irrelevant.

I also have to disagree strongly that "Apple (does) it more than most hardware manufacturers." I've never seen any evidence of that, and have to assume this slight is in your own head, as opposed to anything objectively real.

The business of a business, is not just to make money, it's to do the work or provide the service or product that it's in business for. Originally, most businesses had creeds or mandates attached to them by the founders expressly for the purpose of making sure that all the workers *knew* what they were in business for.

People who think business is "just about the money" are missing a very basic point, (and a great deal of life in general), and are doomed (eventually) to a life of waste, corruption and loneliness IMO.
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post #77 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

We'll have to disagree on this one.

I don't buy the premise that "business is business" or some such and not morally or ethically concerned. If you are in the business of making consumer products and actively trying to screw the consumers for the single reason of more cash, then (IMO) you are "up to no good" and not being very smart business-wise to boot. In other words I don't believe that the presence of capitalism makes moral or ethical behaviour irrelevant.

I also have to disagree strongly that "Apple (does) it more than most hardware manufacturers." I've never seen any evidence of that, and have to assume this slight is in your own head, as opposed to anything objectively real.

The business of a business, is not just to make money, it's to do the work or provide the service or product that it's in business for. Originally, most businesses had creeds or mandates attached to them by the founders expressly for the purpose of making sure that all the workers *knew* what they were in business for.

People who think business is "just about the money" are missing a very basic point, (and a great deal of life in general), and are doomed (eventually) to a life of waste, corruption and loneliness IMO.

I agree with much of what you wrote. The desire to make money doing something is not a differentiator. Anyone can want to make money. It's having a vision to do something better and a passion to carry it out is what makes one better than a competitor. Without doubt you want to make money doing it, too.
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post #78 of 119
1/21/09 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson1 View Post

I agree with much of what you wrote. The desire to make money doing something is not a differentiator. Anyone can want to make money. It's having a vision to do something better and a passion to carry it out is what makes one better than a competitor. Without doubt you want to make money doing it, too.

Thanks. On reflection I might have got a bit high-handed in some of my remarks, but the basic point is that if business were just about money and ethics be damned, then every business person should be a crack dealer.

We all have ethical lines we don't cross, it's just a matter of where they are. In the case of the car dealer example, the dealer is okay with screwing people over on price and features, but probably wouldn't actually sell them a defective car (whereas others would).
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post #79 of 119
1/21/09 at 1:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorre View Post

I find this a bit weird. It's a bit too extensive to just be an error on the site.

On the other hand, I don't think a new chipset+gfx is just a dropin replacement on the old mobo, but if it is a new mobo, the DDR2 seems a bit strange... does the GeForce 9400 even support DDR2?

If it is an entirely new mobo, one would thin the old MacBook design is here to stay...

it's not an error. I checked at the local store. it is real.

they couldn't comment but I think that the reason for the slow redo is that they had too many other parts still in the warehouses. so they are burning off bits and as they run out we will see slow silent upgrades into perhaps even the white body is gone.

that said, I wish they would shift back to firewire on all the MBs if only to shut folks up about it. although perhaps they are still burning off old processors and that's why still the fw400 and mini-dvi specs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hledgard View Post

The white appears much more durable.

tell that to my roommate who had to replace his white macbook because his fat cat took a nap on it closed one day and put a pressure break in the screen. which by the by isn't covered by apple care cause it is accidental damage. they were nice enough since he was in the first year and basically had not used the apple care to let him transfer it to the new computer even though they didn't have to. but it was still a pain.

he tried several times to do the same damage to a demo at the store (they actually invited him to try it right in front of them) and couldn't do it. and i've got Porky on top of the machine a half dozen times and so far nothing
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post #80 of 119
1/21/09 at 1:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorre View Post

Where? The FSB is labelled as 1066MHz but the RAM itself appears to be 667... which seems pretty strange to me anyhow, must be a way of deliberately crippling this machine.

I don't think so, the RAM is probably in dual channel configuration, and is twice as wide as the FSB. So slower memory can still keep up with the FSB and then some.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I'd take the aluminum over the plastic anyday in terms of durability. The plastic may *look* more durable but I'd almost guarantee the unibody aluminum would mop the floor with it in durability tests (dropping, hitting, etc).

Polycarbonate should be more impact resistant, but that's assuming they still use it in the white model. Aluminum can be bent, dented and cracked, but it's much tougher to do same with equivalent weight of polycarbonate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sortarican4711 View Post

i am super pissed i just got a macbook in nov the white one... and now they upgrade it WTF, why does apple do this? i am gonna try to sell mine on craigslist, or something. this pisses me off...

It's been what, five months since the MacBook update? Sometimes product updates happen. The only way around it is to either not sell computers or not update them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

It's like "packs" on cars. Want the heated seats? Sorry, only available with the moon roof and spoiler package. etc.

Packages tend to reduce production and distribution complexity.
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