Gitmo

US President Barack Obama.

I have to admit that phrase is a surprising relief to see, after the last 8 years.

Hope the feeling lasts a while...but...

Government policies, especially ones that have a lot of thought put into them, have political inertia. You can't just sign something and expect the logistical, legal, and social framework associated with it to change that second.

This is why I think that Obama has to dismantle Gitmo piece by piece instead of just declaring it closed.

well gee....none of these had the Miranda read to them....so they will go free....return to their terroist ways....

On the 1st Day, the Lord said, Let there be Change, and there was change, and we were well pleased.

Of course, if it has been ruled that Guantanamo is an illegal holding centre, and as torture has now formally been removed from the book, then it is pretty clear, that criminals and torturers need to be bought to account.

On the second day, the lord said, let their be a war-crime tribunal.....

so the "lords" reign will be only 7 days, 6 with a rest....wonderful

...on the 2922nd day of our Lords dominion, he said, "Let Hilary win the election". and Hilary won the election, and the Lord was well pleased.

Ask any Palestinian householder, farmer, or market gardener, olive plantation owner, you name it. D9 bulldozers (as used by the Israelis) would raze Gitmo very effectively, in a few hours.

The POWs? If charges can be brought, try them federal court, in fair, open trials. What is wrong with that?

If they cannot charge them with anything (ie the overwhelming majority of Gitmo inmates)... then this implies lack of guilt. It does not require a stretch of the imagination that most of these people are simply there because they are from Afghanistan who were in the "wrong place at the wrong time", and the Bush administration preferred to keep these guys arbitrarily locked up in legal limbo, rather than lose face.

However... imagine something. It's November, 2001. You are a goat herder's son in Afghanistan. Suddenly a bunch of heavily armed men in uniform burst into your house, automatic weapons blazing. You dive for cover. Your father gets bludgeoned to death, your sister and mother get raped before being shot. You're hiding behind some furniture, listening to everything. Finally you get found. You get beaten up and blindfolded, dragged onto a helicopter and flown somewhere. You get thrown into a cell with only rats for company. Guards occasionally walk by and kick you in the testicles and piss all over you. Then a few days later, barely able to stand, starving and weak, you get marched onto a plane, still blindfolded and in leg irons and handcuffs. When you finally see the light of day, some 24 hours later, you're in an outdoor cell open to the elements, surrounded by razor wire. The sun is blazing, there's no shade and the humidity is 90%. You don't speak English. Nobody explains why you're there, or where you are. You don't have access to a lawyer. They feed you unfamiliar food that upsets your digestion. On regular occasions you get hauled into a room where guards bark questions about subjects you know nothing about. If you don't answer to the satisfaction of the guards, they pour water down your throat. You make stuff up to stop the terror. This goes on for 7 and a half years, until finally, one day in spring of 2009, you're told that you're being freed, and you are to be flown back home to Afghanistan.

That person would have to be the world's most forgiving man not to spend a good part of the rest of his life plotting ways of getting back at his tormentors. And without a legal way of doing such, the only avenue left open would be via the bomb and bullet.

Perhaps these people should not be freed?

Is this for real?

You would keep innocent people locked up indefinately, because they might be a little bit more than seriously pissed off when they get released.

Perhaps the dark side finally takes hold of you?

I was trying to preempt what many might be thinking. I don't know what to do. Each case has to be evaluated on its individual merits.

It goes way further than just Gitmo. Because of Iraq, Afghanistan, Gitmo and the so-called "war on terror" in general, we have undoubtedly made things far worse regarding motivation for possible future revenge attacks. Similarly with our blanket support for the Israelis, who can do whatever they want, regardless of international law, knowing they won;t have to answer for it. There are millions of people in the mid east who have lost family members and friends, murdered as a result of foreigners invading and trashing their land in just the last 8 years, for reasons that have no basis in truth and reality. How many will turn to revenge, rather than "forgive and forget" is an unknown. It only takes a few (or, failing that, a false flag op) and we can kiss our freedoms goodbye.

The problem will never be resolved because the folk who started this crap are incapable of apologizing and offering reparations. The victims will not have access to the courts to go the legal route.

In other words, a heckofamess.

Pentagon: Ex-Gitmo detainees resume terror acts


Guantanamo Bay detention facility has had a radicalizing effect among hardcore Muslims around the world and I wouldn't be surprised if many of those "returning to terrorism" suspects (of which are 43, only 18 confirmed) have been subjected to acts of torture by US officials.

we need to hear their story and be horrified by it, so that something like this can never happen again.

Just like we needed to know the horrors of the haulocast after ww2.

I have no particular reason to believe anything the Pentagon says about detainees. They were the ones that threw a bunch of innocent people into detention in the first place, then lied for years about their status, when they weren't simply blacking out information altogether.

Any claims now about what former detainees "have done or are suspected to have done", (which is quite the handy all encompassing phrase, is it not?) should be taken with a grain of salt, if that.

I mean, what would you expect them to say? "Most if not all of the people that we held for years without charges, many of whom we tortured, have, upon release, returned to the quiet, utterly unremarkable lives they were leading before we illegally abducted them in a frenzy of xenophobic rage. We are, therefore, criminals and rightfully international pariahs, and probably deserve to be prosecuted for war crimes"?

The vague, unverifiable stuff the Pentagon is putting out is pure face saving propaganda, and they know that no one will ask to see the evidence. Which is what they've been doing for eight years, so it's not particularly surprising. Doesn't mean we have to give it any credence.

Yes, I agree that last statement is ironic to say the least...


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Also...


So renditions will have to be documented now. It certainly seems so what with the prohibition on using black sites along with an Attorney General who appears to actually care.

Or perhaps I am missing something, who knows...?

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Oh dear, the Hanninites aren't to happy...

Maybe KSM will get released into the US on a technicality by the 9th circuit and move into a foreclosed home and go back to sawing the heads off of jews.

and make bombs in his new home using TARP subsidized mortgage...because he can't find gainfull employment and lives the life of "victimhood" at our mounting dept expense.

bail will be set at -100k, that's right our government will pay HIM to go to court.
he's not a flight risk....he has it too easy.

Two THOUSAND Nine HUNDRED and NINETEEN days of COMPLETE IRRELAVENCE left to go.

How many days nordkapp stays on my ignore? It will remain up to whether he provides anything worth replying too I guess.

He's making a show for the cameras. Bush wanted to close Gitmo and deal with people there. His admin' reviewed interrogation and Obama may come up with standards that are similar. Water boarding was used on only three people and was discontinued years ago. Nothing to see here folks ... move along.

But the cameras love it and it fits the Change slogan and gives terrorist Hope that my may get back to killing Jews and Americans some day.

maybe that's the terroist "hope" portion of his slogan

Wait, so Bush wanted to close Gitmo and end torture and now Obama's just following through on what Bush was going to do anyway, but when Obama does it it will give hope to terrorists?

Maybe Bush knew his version wouldn't give hope to terrorists because it was going to happen in the his alternative universe third term?

This is very confusing.

Anyone up for betting that the information did exist before Dick Cheney pulled a back muscle shredding all relevant documents?

Tell me about. I see unicorns dancing on rainbows now. I'm all giddy about a black person for President, even though he has less political experience than Sarah Palin.

And about Gitmo... if you bleeding hearts love these guys so much, house them in your house after Gitmo is closed. Listen up you fucking retard liberal Americans:

THESE PIECES OF SHIT CAMEL FUCKING CAVE DWELLING RAG HEAD FUCKS HATE YOU AND WOULD RATHER KILL YOU THAN LOOK AT YOU.

Which is no doubt why the Bush admin released the vast majority of Gimo detainees after holding them without charges for years on end and never bringing them to trial.

Because they love them some terrorists.

It can be confusing when same is marketed as Change. What is Obama against these days? The military commission that Congress passed into law (is Obama disreguarding federal law)? The slow process of justice that Obama made even slower this week? Keeping Gitmo open which everyone wanted closed anyway?

We don't have crystal balls. I would imagine that Bush would have emptied Gitmo via the millitary courts that were setup whereas Teh Hope and Teh Change will move these people to the US and give them more legal standing so we can tie the civil court up in knots OJ style.

I hope when KSM get out of jail and no country will agree not to off his ass he'll move into a nice liberal part of the country and go right back to the peaceful activities he was doing before he was "radicalized" by Gitmo.

July 4, 2009.