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Apple rules out "iPhone nano," critically watching Mac netbook - Page 2

post #41 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

oh come on people, it's fairly obvious Apple are awaiting hardware developments before entering the netbook market. relax

With the "system on a chip" Pineview due in the second half of the year and the falling prices of SSDs, it would indeed be an interesting time for Apple to come out with a Pineview based netbook/travel companion with a "hybrid" drive system...a comparatively small SSD for the OS and such and a conventional HDD for data. MSI already has such a system, the Wind 115 and it makes the system more responsive and extends the battery life in many instances while leaving adequate storage space for downloading your digital pix and etc when traveling.

Something in the 10 to 11 inch widescreen size with 1280x800 resolution would be very sweet.
post #42 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

I own a netbook (taht I confess, I tried to get OSX working on). It was a workable (yay, two-finger scroll) but unstable solution. I also spent on the higher side for a large disk, and the resulting laptop was overpriced.

The main problem, stability issues aside, was the completely shitty hardware software integration.
All in all, compared to my aluminum macbook, it's completely unusable.

Which one do you have? It works flawlessly on my MSI Wind. And comparing a $300 netbook to a $1500 Macbook is patently absurd.
post #43 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

oh come on people, it's fairly obvious Apple are awaiting hardware developments before entering the netbook market. relax

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

(snip)And comparing a $300 netbook to a $1500 Macbook is patently absurd.

Precisely!

The netbook/travel companion will not replace a full featured powerful laptop. They are not intended to...or even desired to do so. With a six cell battery, the current generation of netbooks are capable of 5+ hours of battery life.

For $350 to $500 people have much more modest expectations of the device.
post #44 of 89
QUOTE: "We don't think people will be pleased with those products. It's a category we watch, we've got some ideas here, but right now we think the products are inferior and will not provide an experience to customers they're happy with."

Apple needs to do market research. About 10% of the people I see at a library where I sometimes work have netbooks and every one that I'd talked with is delighted by what they have.
post #45 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

QUOTE: "We don't think people will be pleased with those products. It's a category we watch, we've got some ideas here, but right now we think the products are inferior and will not provide an experience to customers they're happy with."

Apple needs to do market research. About 10% of the people I see at a library where I sometimes work have netbooks and every one that I'd talked with is delighted by what they have.

Why not just release a more powerful iPhone and have two iPhones...a standard and an elite.

Then sell a netbook shell that you slide the iphone into that has a screen, keyboard, and extra battery? You could even have extra flash memory, ram, graphics card or secondary processor (not sure about the logistics of this and if you would just end up with a complete computer rather than a shell while trying to make it fast enough to not be anoying).

You could use the same apps that come on the iphone and iphone operating system...maybe even use the iphone as the touch pad. The iphone would handle the wifi or 3g connectivity...seems pretty easy to me.
post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Same canned responses they gave a year before the iPhone and Apple TV debuted.

The difference is the iPhone was revolutionary and AppleTV was again in the first part of the breed of set top boxes (although a flop even with the incredible sales last quarter).

Apple is chasing the puck these days.
post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

QUOTE: "We don't think people will be pleased with those products. It's a category we watch, we've got some ideas here, but right now we think the products are inferior and will not provide an experience to customers they're happy with."

Apple needs to do market research. About 10% of the people I see at a library where I sometimes work have netbooks and every one that I'd talked with is delighted by what they have.

I wonder what library you work at :/ Ten percent netbook use seems pretty high.

In Brooklyn, most people who use a computer in a library are using the library's computers. There are a few people with notebooks (mainly college students), but even near schools, it's something like 5% or less. I've never seen any netbook users.
post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokuwaomar View Post

I wonder what library you work at :/ Ten percent netbook use seems pretty high.

In Brooklyn, most people who use a computer in a library are using the library's computers. There are a few people with notebooks (mainly college students), but even near schools, it's something like 5% or less. I've never seen any netbook users.

Granted, I haven't been to a library in 20+ years but I attend 4 or 5 meetings a day and all of us have our laptops. If you need numbers or part of a presentation it's wanted now.

I would love to carry in a 1lb netbook and get the same information that I can synch with my notebook that has wifi access to our network.

I could lose the planner and still have my notebook (which is my main desktop computer) and get the best of both.

My company doesn't support iPhones and even with my 3G pulling up a spreadsheet is painfully slow and wouldn't cut it during a meeting.
post #49 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Granted, I haven't been to a library in 20+ years but I attend 4 or 5 meetings a day and all of us have our laptops. If you need numbers or part of a presentation it's wanted now.

I would love to carry in a 1lb netbook and get the same information that I can synch with my notebook that has wifi access to our network.

I could lose the planner and still have my notebook (which is my main desktop computer) and get the best of both.

My company doesn't support iPhones and even with my 3G pulling up a spreadsheet is painfully slow and wouldn't cut it during a meeting.

I personally think the weight savings isn't worth putting up with a cramped keyboard. I'm a student so carrying around a typical 13 inch notebook isn't that big of a deal for me. A ultra slim notebook like a Macbook Air would be nice since it would lighten the load, but at the current price it's out of my budget, and SSDs will need come down in price more for the capacity to be decent.

I also don't buy the "if I lose it/if it gets stolen/if I break it, it's not a big deal" argument that some people bring up. People who think that way are typically more prone to lose their stuff. Losing/breaking my stuff is simply not an option, so I take better care of it.
post #50 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

In others, I really don't think iPhones can really replace what a netbook can do. The form factor is very different and fits different uses. Netbooks can operate regular desktop software without changes.

It would appear a lot of the cheaper ones use a flavour of Linux with a front-end for people who aren't used to using computers. So on that score, the low-end Netbooks are no more useful than having an iPhone or iPod touch.

Take my mum's - an Acer Aspire One. She uses it to browse the web, check and write emails, and at a push to listen to music and watch videos (although even that's not very easy). She can take it with her because it's light, even though she has back trouble.

I think most of these types will be buying either these cheap Netbooks or iPhones. But yes I guess the more fully-featured ones with Windows (or hacked for OS X) can be useful for people who have to use the train... Personally I don't have any need for such a device.
post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

You can actually shave quite a bit of space off the current iphone without reducing the screen size. My guess is the next iphone will be angular, and maybe even move that button behind or to the side. Er actually i shall make a mockup, excuse the bodge i dont have time to polish it.



This design would tie in with some of the behind-the-screen technologies in recent patents .

You're forgetting that they can't even seem to find space for 2 memory chips in there because of the cell chip. That's why the iPod Touch has twice as much space on it. If they can't find room for a second chip in there, what makes you think they can just cut off all that space?

There is no way they can remove all that and expect it all to fit in there... just can't happen.
post #52 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

I suppose all the people who install OS X on their Netbooks (and some struggle to do so!) doesn't mean there is a market. I counted 5 people on the train this morning with netbooks with OS X installed! That's gotta mean something, right?

Ah well... so much for that idea. Hackers can keep their night jobs I guess. Gotta keep it fun for some folks.

What are the probabibilities of seeing 5 people on the train in one morning running a hackintosh netbook?
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimUSCA View Post

You're forgetting that they can't even seem to find space for 2 memory chips in there because of the cell chip. That's why the iPod Touch has twice as much space on it. If they can't find room for a second chip in there, what makes you think they can just cut off all that space?

There is no way they can remove all that and expect it all to fit in there... just can't happen.

I can only assume they would use their own chip design the size of which we do not know right now. Improvements in battery technologies progress daily also.

Either way the size of components in general are not getting any bigger, nor are they staying still. The only possible outcome is that they shrink, and IMO the eventual evolution of the iphone (using traditional non flexible screens) is what you see in the mockup.
It's a war between required screen area VS phone size. Apple has already determined the minimum required screen area, now the phone itself must shrink closer to the confines of that space.

Also, dropping the curves utilizes the space more efficiently, hence why I dropped the curves.
post #54 of 89
I don't know what all Net Book users are like, but I see many users where I live (Budapest). They are almost always teenagers and are using them for checking Facebook and other social networking sites and for sending emails. That's it.

My mother is also looking to buy one as she wants a cheap PC that send emails. I live abroad and she simply wants a useable device for keeping in contact cheaply.
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post #55 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMad View Post

I don't know what all Net Book users are like, but I see many users where I live (Budapest). They are almost always teenagers and are using them for checking Facebook and other social networking sites and for sending emails. That's it.

yup, that s why I believe that when the netbook arrives it will run the iphone os. With some simplified iLife apps. There would be a clear distinction then with Apples macbook range. The OS would obviously run more efficiently on the low power chips.
post #56 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

yup, that s why I believe that when the netbook arrives it will run the iphone os. With some simplified iLife apps. There would be a clear distinction then with Apples macbook range. The OS would obviously run more efficiently on the low power chips.

This would make sense to me, and would be a great way to get kids using Macs. When they are older and have left school and are earning, then they'll be more inclined to stick with Apple.
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post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMad View Post

This would make sense to me, and would be a great way to get kids using Macs. When they are older and have left school and are earning, then they'll be more inclined to stick with Apple.

Apple Tv should go this direction as well. Apples traditional range should also be able to run 'iphone' apps in much the same way as they use Dashboard.
post #58 of 89
Maybe the answer for Apple, if they want to produce 'high end' Net Books with decent sized keyboards and screens is to wait until flexible screen technology is more production friendly (in terms of costs).

I saw a Samsung guy showcase something like this a year or so ago. Not anything for production but amazingly good picture on a screen that opened like a scroll. Made me dribble
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post #59 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMad View Post

I saw a Samsung guy showcase something like this a year or so ago. Not anything for production but amazingly good picture on a screen that opened like a scroll. Made me dribble

Interesting, i do not recollect seeing this, do you have a link?
post #60 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Interesting, i do not recollect seeing this, do you have a link?

No, the guy is a business contact who showed me the screen in person - he was in Europe for a meet-and-greet and was talking to his execs about future tech. I wasn't allowed to take pics, needless to say.

The thought did cross me mind to cosh him and run off with it. LOL.
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post #61 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMad View Post

No, the guy is a business contact who showed me the screen in person - he was in Europe for a meet-and-greet and was talking to his execs about future tech. I wasn't allowed to take pics, needless to say.

The thought did cross me mind to cosh him and run off with it. LOL.

Haha
post #62 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

Haha

But this tech has been talked about since 2004. Things have moved on a bit since. Here's a good link (from 2007):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...r-T-shirt.html
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post #63 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacMad View Post

But this tech has been talked about since 2004. Things have moved on a bit since. Here's a good link (from 2007):

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...r-T-shirt.html


I have been keeping an eye on various flexible screen technologies, but am yet to see anything that ticks all the boxes to be of use. With current publicly available prototypes that is. And for a product such as the iPhone.
post #64 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by saarek View Post

Sales would have been much better in the desktop machines had Apple not been so sloppy in the updates for them, overall good results.

Get a clue. Laptops have been more popular for a number of years now. Has nothing to do with updates.
post #65 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacojohn View Post

Doesn't this sound that Apple would indeed release something into that space that would have powerful hardware, great software, a full sized keyboard, and a large display?

aka a cheaper Macbook Air?

If it was more powerful, with a larger keyboard and larger display, it wouldn't be called a Netbook, now would it? Apple already has what you described, they call it a MacBook. They already have inexpensive MacBook Airs...visit the refurb section of the Apple Store.
post #66 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

Translated from AppleSpeak: "We will cut the price of iPhone to $99 in the US and lower pric appropriately in other markets". At least in the US, it would be a lot more effective if Apple can convince AT&T to offer $20/month data service plan for iPhone by reducing the subsidy payments Apple is receiving from AT&T per iPhone sold.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macshark View Post

Tranlated from AppleSpeak: "Apple will offer a "premium" NetBook soon at slightly above the $500 price point.". It is likely that Apple will offer a display with higher resolution (similar to the new HP 2140) instead of the 1024x600 LCD found in many low-end NetBooks. It is also likely that the Apple netbook will be based on a dual core Atom with the new NVidia chipset.

Of course, Apple will claim that the new Apple netbook is not a "netbook"...

You really do live in a dreamworld, don't you? Apple doesn't believe in making cheap shit. A small display with an even higher resolution? What a great idea, make it even harder to read! $500 price point? Netbooks average price is $300. Apple making a netbook for more than $500? Get a clue, that would be a useless product. Then you would be the first to complain about it because it was too expensive. The $99 iPhone rumor was also fake too. I already pay $20 for data on my iPhone. So keep dreaming about fake products and illusions.
post #67 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

You can actually shave quite a bit of space off the current iphone without reducing the screen size. My guess is the next iphone will be angular, and maybe even move that button behind or to the side. Er actually i shall make a mockup, excuse the bodge i dont have time to polish it.



This design would tie in with some of the behind-the-screen technologies in recent patents .

So the phone you created would be about an inch thick in order to pack in the electronics in a smaller space. What a great idea. Guess what part you left out...the ear piece speaker! There is no such thing as a 1mm speaker as you created. Also, a smaller phone means a smaller battery. Do you see the problem in that idea?
post #68 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

You really do live in a dreamworld, don't you? Apple doesn't believe in making cheap shit. A small display with an even higher resolution? What a great idea, make it even harder to read! $500 price point? Netbooks average price is $300. Apple making a netbook for more than $500? Get a clue, that would be a useless product. Then you would be the first to complain about it because it was too expensive. The $99 iPhone rumor was also fake too. I already pay $20 for data on my iPhone. So keep dreaming about fake products and illusions.

It would only be a useless product if the numb skulls at Apple chose to make it so...which, unfortunately, they do all too often.

$20 for iPhone data? The going rate is $30 (3G), which is one of the reasons people look at the whole deal about a crippled iPhone with high charges for small amounts of data and give it a pass. AT&T (and the others for that matter) are overpricing their product, but their networks do not seem able to handle the current traffic so I guess that it does not matter to them. It is more than a little co-incidental that none of them have lowered the price of data plans...an unspoken conspiracy of sorts...which would attract a lot of customers. Price the plan attractive and let people buy whatever device they want for it, be it a BB or a netbook and worry about signing up more customers and providing decent service.

The interesting thing about the current generation of netbooks is that they represent a statement that being connected to the internet 100% of the time is just not that important to a lot of people. The ability to connect periodically via a wi-fi connection is "good enough". As wi-fi availability spreads, I think this trend will continue to grow.
post #69 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

I already pay $20 for data on my iPhone.

Can a new customer still get that rate?
post #70 of 89
I think Apple can't do it. The market is there.

Apple can do the Mac Air and left out a lot of features... Imagine a Mac netbook?

It be bare bones and it won't happen.

I don't think Apple has the tech to build such a small netbook. The thinnest yes... At an expense of missing the most important thing found on every computer... an ethernet.
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post #71 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by r00fus View Post

I own a netbook (taht I confess, I tried to get OSX working on). It was a workable (yay, two-finger scroll) but unstable solution. I also spent on the higher side for a large disk, and the resulting laptop was overpriced.

The main problem, stability issues aside, was the completely shitty hardware software integration. The laptop "came" with windows, and the touchpad drivers for XP were ok, but windows XP just completely sucks with a 600 pixel height monitor.

Linux and OSX looked and worked better, but didn't have the customizable drivers (ie, I couldn't turn off the touch-to-click, which resulted in many mistyped docs as there was no room to rest the base of my hands while typing).

All in all, compared to my aluminum macbook, it's completely unusable.

Thank you! Someone that actually owns a Netbook and gave a valid opinion on how they really are! I am tired of reading all the posts from people that don't own them, but think how great they are and how Apple should make one. Someone finally explained how useless they really are.
post #72 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

I think Apple can't do it. The market is there.

Apple can do the Mac Air and left out a lot of features... Imagine a Mac netbook?

It be bare bones and it won't happen.

I don't think Apple has the tech to build such a small netbook. The thinnest yes... At an expense of missing the most important thing found on every computer... an ethernet.

WiFi is wireless ethernet, and better embodies the idea of an "ether" network than wired ethernet does. Wired ethernet makes sense for desktops, but not as much for notebooks.

All the desktops in my ownership or care are wired, but all the notebooks are wireless. Wires are usually too inconvenient to deal with for the occasional time that I really need the highest speed possible.
post #73 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by monstrosity View Post

You can actually shave quite a bit of space off the current iphone without reducing the screen size. My guess is the next iphone will be angular, and maybe even move that button behind or to the side. Er actually i shall make a mockup, excuse the bodge i dont have time to polish it.



This design would tie in with some of the behind-the-screen technologies in recent patents .

You forgot one thing though. You need to also hold the phone and that isn't happening if you've got your thumb on top of the screen. That's why the iPhone has some space on the top and bottom, for a comfortable grip especially when it's sideways.

For me the iPhone does exactly what a netbook would do.
post #74 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

COOK WROTE :: "You know us, we're not going to play in the low-end voice phone business. That's not who we are. That's not why we're here. We'll let somebody do that, our goal is not to be the unit share leader in the phone industry. It is to build the best phone."

The best phone? Why not include the basic features found on every single phone? Without them, you cant be the best phone. You lack video, MMS, copy and paste, flash etc...

Add these features and you probably got the best phone... Without them, you are a joke.

I don't care about MMS or video (copy and paste would be nice, but my last phone didn't have it either so I am not missing out). So yes, I have the best phone out there because all the others are pieces of SHIT with their half-assed attempt at writing software to run the phone! I am guessing you don't even own an iPhone, so you don't have a clue what you are talking about.
post #75 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by RBR View Post

If these devices are canabalizing anything, it would be so called smart phones, which are not very smart at all in the experience of a lot of people.

The experience of a lot of people? That's what you think. I love my iPhone, and so do the millions of others that own one. I am assuming you don't own one. My iPhone is brilliant compared to my last phone.
post #76 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitespecter View Post

Which one do you have? It works flawlessly on my MSI Wind. And comparing a $300 netbook to a $1500 Macbook is patently absurd.

Correct. One is a lousy PC and the other is a full featured laptop worth the money. In case you didn't know, MacBooks start at $999, not $1500.
post #77 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inkling View Post

QUOTE: "We don't think people will be pleased with those products. It's a category we watch, we've got some ideas here, but right now we think the products are inferior and will not provide an experience to customers they're happy with."

Apple needs to do market research. About 10% of the people I see at a library where I sometimes work have netbooks and every one that I'd talked with is delighted by what they have.

Give them a laptop and I am sure they would be delighted too. If people want to buy a cheap PC for $300, that is what they have always purchased. Doesn't mean Apple needs to join that crowd. 10%. Wow, that is enough to make them worthy. Meanwhile the remaining 90% use regular laptops.
post #78 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Can a new customer still get that rate?

I don't know. That is why I am happy with my iPhone (Original). I think AT&T should offer the $20 plan for people that don't want to use 3G, or live in an area with no 3G coverage. I don't know why people complain about the iPhone data rate. Other providers charge just as much, or even more if they don't have an unlimited data plan.
post #79 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

So the phone you created would be about an inch thick in order to pack in the electronics in a smaller space. What a great idea. Guess what part you left out...the ear piece speaker! There is no such thing as a 1mm speaker as you created. Also, a smaller phone means a smaller battery. Do you see the problem in that idea?

Try using your imagination (if you have one), the speaker does not need to sit at the front does it. It could be seated at the back and channelled through a narrow slit. OR they could use flat panel speaker and use the whole screen as the 'speaker'.

If we all lived in your world we would have never progressed, who would have thunk we could have compressed this...




into this...



AND added features.

Obviously not someone such as yourself.
post #80 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

What are the probabibilities of seeing 5 people on the train in one morning running a hackintosh netbook?

Haha, I would have to say very small. Especially seeing he is from Arizona. Train? About the only train that know of is the new light-rail that just opened in Phoenix. But they aren't that big, so just seeing five people using netbooks on the same train would be an accomplishment...let alone all five running a hackintosh too. I don't know of any popular Amtrak routes in AZ. They don't even service Phoenix unless you take a bus too. But who knows, there might be one? I doubt it though.
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