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What is legal and what isn't in terms of music sharing, etc?

post #1 of 18
1/22/09 at 11:46am
Thread Starter 
I've decided to go 100% legal, and remove from my computer anything that is not legal.

I've removed all software, music and videos that I had on the machine that I had not paid for, and would within the law be required to pay for in order to acquire.

This included any copyrighted music, tv shows, videos or software downloaded via bittorrent, or something like acquisition.

What I'm unsure about are the following things. Are these illegal?

1. Ripping a movie that I own on DVD into my iTunes library in order to put on my iPhone.
2. Ripping a movie that I own on DVD into iMovie, and making a music video out of it, set to a track of music that I purchased from iTunes.
3. Doing #2, followed by uploading the video to youtube.
4. Extracting the audio out of a movie that I own on DVD, cutting it up into tracks, and putting it in iTunes as a soundtrack, to listen to on my computer or on my iPhone.
5. Burning a purchased album to disc, from iTunes.

None of the copying/ripping/extracting/editing stuff that I do with movies or music that I have paid for ever results in somebody else acquiring something that they would normally have to pay for, so that's why i'm curious about whether it's actually illegal.

I'm going 110% legal, so i'll do whatever it takes to achieve that.

Thanks.
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post #2 of 18
1/22/09 at 11:55am
I wouldn't bother to play by the rules.

Its of noble intent to be honest, but you will find that nobility is only pushed by people who want to rip you off.

I dont mean lie, cheat and steal from your friends and family, but know how the system works and play by the unwritten rules.

That is what everyone else is doing. Its just a game of cat and mouse.
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post #3 of 18
1/22/09 at 11:57am
It depends on where you live. The laws are different in different parts of the world. Some places have no copyright laws.
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post #4 of 18
1/22/09 at 12:04pm
Thread Starter 
What about borrowing a CD from the library, importing it into iTunes, and then returning it? Is that legal?
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post #5 of 18
1/22/09 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

What about borrowing a CD from the library, importing it into iTunes, and then returning it? Is that legal?

yes its fine
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post #6 of 18
1/22/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordkapp View Post

yes its fine

(not)
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #7 of 18
1/22/09 at 1:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

(not)

I was going to say, what does "yes it's fine" mean? Is it illegal or not?

edit: Here's another question. My family members have all installed Leopard on their Macs, using my single user disc. If I buy a family pack of Leopard, does that for all practical purposes make their installations legal? Or do they actually have to reinstall leopard on their machines using the family pack disc?
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post #8 of 18
1/22/09 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

I was going to say, what does "yes it's fine" mean? Is it illegal or not?

Its fine to borrow music from the library, rip it to itunes and then return the CD.

Then, when your film music is released on CD, people will be able to go to the library, rip it into itunes, and return the CD.

Everything is A OK.

So why are you on this crusade of righteousness?
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post #9 of 18
1/22/09 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordkapp View Post

Its fine to borrow music from the library, rip it to itunes and then return the CD.

Then, when your film music is released on CD, people will be able to go to the library, rip it into itunes, and return the CD.

Everything is A OK.

So why are you on this crusade of righteousness?

I'm not on a crusade of righteousness. It's just wrong to listen to and enjoy a CD of music that you didn't pay for. The artist put time, effort and money into creating it, and they deserve to be paid.

I just deleted thousands of tracks from my iTunes library and spent over $200 at the iTunes Store, re-acquiring the CD's that I really wanted. It's just wrong to get somebody's product without paying, when they put a price tag on it.

Can anyone answer my question about the Leopard family pack?
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post #10 of 18
1/22/09 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

I'm not on a crusade of righteousness. It's just wrong to listen to and enjoy a CD of music that you didn't pay for. The artist put time, effort and money into creating it, and they deserve to be paid.

So thats what you think, yet you ask a question that completely undermines your statement.

I would consider deleting 2000 tracks,spending $200 dollars, and expressing desire to be 110% legal - a moral crusade, what would you call it?

And what has changed in your mind regarding these 2000 tracks, there must have been a time when you thought it was OK to steal 2000 songs.

I guess its the thought that someone might be ripping you off, that made you change your POV. Its all ok, until it has the potential to effect me...Right.

Like I said, your moral crusade wont change anything, if I were you, play by the same rules as everyone else. Rip, steal, lie, cheat, deceive, whatever - but just dont do it close to home so you get caught, and the consequences will never effect you.
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post #11 of 18
1/22/09 at 4:59pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nordkapp View Post

So thats what you think, yet you ask a question that completely undermines your statement.

I would consider deleting 2000 tracks,spending $200 dollars, and expressing desire to be 110% legal - a moral crusade, what would you call it?

And what has changed in your mind regarding these 2000 tracks, there must have been a time when you thought it was OK to steal 2000 songs.

I guess its the thought that someone might be ripping you off, that made you change your POV. Its all ok, until it has the potential to effect me...Right.

Like I said, your moral crusade wont change anything, if I were you, play by the same rules as everyone else. Rip, steal, lie, cheat, deceive, whatever - but just dont do it close to home so you get caught, and the consequences will never effect you.

I came in here to find out what is legal and what's not. But thanks for your input.

I guess i'll go ask a lawyer.
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post #12 of 18
1/22/09 at 6:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

I was going to say, what does "yes it's fine" mean? Is it illegal or not?

edit: Here's another question. My family members have all installed Leopard on their Macs, using my single user disc. If I buy a family pack of Leopard, does that for all practical purposes make their installations legal? Or do they actually have to reinstall leopard on their machines using the family pack disc?

no. technically not. but no one is going to prosecute you for it.

legality isn't a matter of words -- its actions as well... you own the licenses, but didn't want to break out a new copy of the dvd... no one will care.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #13 of 18
1/23/09 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

I came in here to find out what is legal and what's not. But thanks for your input.

I guess i'll go ask a lawyer.

So you're a self-proclaimed fledgling genius, yet you do not know the basics of theft...so much for home schooling.

However, im always here to help as well as take the piss, and I advise you to avoid asking Lawyers - they only want to fleece you of your money - a bit like Republicans and the occasional Fundie Jew perhaps.

However, I did come across this whilst perusing topics of interest, while I havn't watched it (there is nothing more boring than laws, rules and disclipline - especially when youre young) - it does come from MIT, which so far have been a wonderful source of inspiration for me. All hail Walter Lewin. The new Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis...A42FFCB382F2F1
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post #14 of 18
2/1/09 at 8:40pm
A calculator is a very small device that when used you take little numbers like 9 and 8 and type them in or put them in, and out pops another number. Then you get bored sitting in class and then you pop more numbers to see the results. Over and over as a kid in school with your calculator you sit and punch numbers in over and over.

A computer is basically a larger calculator that you sit and dump large numbers into, these numbers come in the form of files and that is all, and you see the results. Honestly.

I think people that think they own the exclusive rights to a number (or words) are LOST fools and have no concept of what is going on.

Laters...

and good luck being a lawyer just to barely survive in this SICK society.
Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
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Adobe Systems - "Preventing the Case-Sensitive revolution everyday..."
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post #15 of 18
2/2/09 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

1. Ripping a movie that I own on DVD into my iTunes library in order to put on my iPhone.
2. Ripping a movie that I own on DVD into iMovie, and making a music video out of it, set to a track of music that I purchased from iTunes.
3. Doing #2, followed by uploading the video to youtube.
4. Extracting the audio out of a movie that I own on DVD, cutting it up into tracks, and putting it in iTunes as a soundtrack, to listen to on my computer or on my iPhone.
5. Burning a purchased album to disc, from iTunes.

I'm not a lawyer, but have spent considerable time tying following such things. And I'm assuming you are in the US, since copyright law varies widely in different regions.

1 - Sort of. Circumventing copy protection is not legal. But the idea of being able to use purchased media in different capacities for personal use does come under fair use. It's really a mess here. Since CDs have no copy protection it is legal to rip them to your computer and ipod for personal use. But commercial DVDs have protection on them, which under the DMCA ripping them would be illegal.

2 - See above for the "ripping part". Making a music video (remixing) is considered fair use as long as it's not for commercial use or profit... then you need to license the content.

3 - Probably, but if the original copyright holder may have rights to request that youtube remove and copyrighted content if they feel that it violates their rights. There is really no standard here.

4 - Again see number 1.

5 - This is 110% legal.

6 - (from other post, RE: ripping a friend's CD) - This is really not legal, but people tend to think it is. You can borrow a CD from a friend and listen to it and return it... but you really can't copy it and return it and say it's legal. The exception being if the friend GIVES you the cd or you buy it from them.... then you own the media and you can use it within fair use.
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
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"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
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post #16 of 18
2/2/09 at 8:29am
Holy shit, it's dogcow!
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post #17 of 18
2/2/09 at 11:08pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogcow View Post

I'm not a lawyer, but have spent considerable time tying following such things. And I'm assuming you are in the US, since copyright law varies widely in different regions.

1 - Sort of. Circumventing copy protection is not legal. But the idea of being able to use purchased media in different capacities for personal use does come under fair use. It's really a mess here. Since CDs have no copy protection it is legal to rip them to your computer and ipod for personal use. But commercial DVDs have protection on them, which under the DMCA ripping them would be illegal.

2 - See above for the "ripping part". Making a music video (remixing) is considered fair use as long as it's not for commercial use or profit... then you need to license the content.

3 - Probably, but if the original copyright holder may have rights to request that youtube remove and copyrighted content if they feel that it violates their rights. There is really no standard here.

4 - Again see number 1.

5 - This is 110% legal.

6 - (from other post, RE: ripping a friend's CD) - This is really not legal, but people tend to think it is. You can borrow a CD from a friend and listen to it and return it... but you really can't copy it and return it and say it's legal. The exception being if the friend GIVES you the cd or you buy it from them.... then you own the media and you can use it within fair use.

What about burning a purchased CD from iTunes to disc, and giving the disc to a friend?

So I guess i'll continue to do things that fall under fair use, such as creating music videos out of movies and music that i've purchased, etc.
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post #18 of 18
2/3/09 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehellgate911 View Post

What about burning a purchased CD from iTunes to disc, and giving the disc to a friend?

Again, the law not very clear. The right of "first sale" states that you have the right to sell works that you purchase without the permission of the copyright holder. But this appears to only be valid for physical copyrighted works, not digital. So in your case, it would be illegal to buy an iTunes cd, burn it and then give or sell it to a friend since you still have possession of the original copy (and technically always will hold a digital license even if you delete the files).

This is why you can't sell iTunes tracks on eBay unlike physical CDs.

This is a huge lose to the consumer because it kills the whole second hand media industry and forces consumers to buy media for themselves with no option to resell or give away the rights.

The exception of course being that iTunes allows you to "gift" an album, but you are still paying full retail price for the "new" purchase, not passing off a "used" item.

See: http://news.cnet.com/Apple-Reselling...3-5072842.html
"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
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"Education is what remains after one has forgotten what one has learned in school." -- Albert Einstein
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