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Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: Apple ups the ante

post #1 of 153
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While Microsoft is working to refine its flagship operating system to be more palatable to a wide audience of PC users, Apple is working to keep Mac OS X a key attraction to Mac hardware to woo potential switchers and retain its loyal users. Here's what's known about Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard.

Previous Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard segments

Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: competitive origins
Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: Microsoft's comeback plan

Apple initially seemed to suggest that Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard would be a minor release following 2007's 10.5 Leopard, citing support for Exchange Server push messaging as the only customer-facing feature. However, Apple historically directs attention upon its currently shipping products rather than its future plans. As the Snow Leopard release grows closer (remarks at WWDC last summer indicated it would ship "in about a year," or Summer 2009), more details have been released.

New kernel features in Snow Leopard

Snow Leopard will deliver a full 64-bit kernel, requiring the same significant "all at once" upgrade in device drivers that Vista's significant kernel changes did. Apple will likely have an easier time pulling this off, as Snow Leopard is only designed to run on a relatively small number of higher end PCs, all made by Apple. Rather than trying to get lots of vendors on board as Microsoft must, Apple will be supplying the majority of kernel-level drivers for Snow Leopard.

While Microsoft has sold a 64-bit version of Windows for Intel x86 PCs since mid-2005, actual 64-bit adoption has been slow. Apple has incrementally supported 64-bit background servers and applications in Mac OS X since the release of the PowerMac G5 in 2003; all 64-bit capable Macs can already run 64-bit Mac OS X software because Apple doesn't offer two versions of its operating system; the same version of today's Leopard runs both 32-bit and 64-bit code.

In Snow Leopard, this will improve as the entire operating system, including all bundled apps, will be compiled for both 32-bit and 64-bits. This results in a roughly 15% increase in performance across the board for 64-bit Macs, such as those with Core 2 Duo processors (most models released since 2006, as the chart below depicts). It also has implication related to security hardening. Windows users also benefit from running the 64-bit version of Microsoft's operating system, but compatibility problems have made the move less attractive, leaving mainstream Windows users stuck on a 32-bit platform. Windows 7 perpetuates this problem by delaying the move to 64-bits to a future release.

In addition to bringing 64-bit processors into the mainstream of Mac computing by making 64-bit the default rather than an option, Snow Leopard also debuts the fruits of Apple's efforts in making full use of multiple cores and multiple processors. Snow Leopard's new Grand Central Dispatch is used to aggressively and efficiently schedule processes across all available processor cores in parallel, and OpenCL is being made available to allow developers to take advantage of the raw processing power that often lays idle in the system's GPU.



Strategic improvements

Apple is also advertising QuickTime X as a streamlined, highly efficient media playback library (originally developed for the iPhone), as well as new advancements to Safari 4.0 and its SquirelFish Extreme JavaScript engine. The latter two will help to accelerate a new wave of sophisticated web applications, including Apple's own SproutCore-based MobileMe and iWork.com, as well as other HTML5 applications from partners such as Google, which are similarly working to develop open, interoperable, and high performance web apps with desktop-style features based upon industry standards.

Microsoft, in contrast, is betting upon its own Silverlight, a Flash-like, proprietary platform for web development that ties web applications to the company's own development tools and runtime rather than leveraging open web standards for interoperability.

Like Microsoft, Apple hopes to bridge its desktop operating system with online cloud computing services offered as subscription software. The difference is that Apple is again working within open standards and in partnership with companies like Google, rather than offering entirely proprietary services. That strategy appears to be paying off, as Apple now has millions of paid MobileMe subscribers which represent more than ten percent of the Mac installed base, while Microsoft has yet to move its Live Mesh out of beta, and has struggled to put together a consistent strategy for its web services.

Next month, Microsoft is expected to announce SkyBox as a new mobile cloud sync service to take on MobileMe (and later its SkyMarket to rival Apple's iPhone App Store), despite having its Windows Mobile platform eclipsed by the iPhone and splintered among various hardware makers and service providers, each of whom might not want to cede the potential for software sales and cloud sync revenues exclusively to Microsoft.

Touch and Office features

While Microsoft made a lot of announcements about integrating touch screen features into Windows 7 back in 2007 around the rollout of the iPhone and its own Surface project, Apple will be delivering a more practical version of new touch functionality in Snow Leopard, one which enables developers to make use of the multitouch trackpads now built into all of Apple's notebooks (which make up more than half of the company's sales).

Apple has already delivered multitouch gestures that can be used system wide, as well as pinch and zoom features that work in its own specific apps. Snow Leopard will extend touch frameworks to developers to allow them to take full advantage of multitouch trackpads in innovative ways, all without users having go out and purchase their own touch screen monitors.

Other silent but practical additions to Snow Leopard include new text processing features that will give all Mac applications the kind of auto-complete and auto-correction features Microsoft provides inside Word. Mac OS X has already extended Word-style spelling and grammar checking to be a system wide service. Windows offers those services in Microsoft-authored apps but they don't yet extend to third party apps.

Open software updates

For Windows NT, Microsoft developed its own new sophisticated file system called NTFS, but it never shared or licensed the technology so that other vendors could build interoperable systems that used it. The result was a selection of patent-threatened, mostly-compatible software libraries that enable Linux, Solaris, and Mac OS X to use NTFS volumes in a limited way. That vacuum prompted Sun to develop its own sophisticated file system to go well beyond the capabilities of NTFS.

Sun has released its 128-bit ZFS as part of OpenSolaris, enabling Apple to build a compatible, read-only implementation in Mac OS X Leopard. In Snow Leopard, Sun's ZFS will be fully supported as a read/write file system, enabling mainstream Mac users to start taking advantage of its storage pooling, data redundancy, automatic error correction, dynamic volume expansion, and snapshot features.

Other open software improvements to make their way into Snow Leopard include the CUPS printing libraries used by both Mac OS X and Linux, which Apple acquired and maintains with the support of the community. Apple has also funded development of the open source LLVM compiler, which is intended to build upon and eventually replace GCC (the GNU C Compiler). LLVM is already resulting in major new code optimizations, but the explicit optimizations for parallel execution it supports will also help Snow Leopard apps take full advantage of Grand Central dispatching across multiple cores.

Microsoft develops its own kernel, file systems, printing technology, compilers, and other operating system components, resulting in less opportunity to take advantage of advancements by the open source community.

On page 2 of 2: Where's the open beta?; and Rumored enhancements.

Where's the open beta?

Some have wondered why Apple hasn't shipped a public beta for Snow Leopard, which appears set for release well ahead of Windows 7. The answer is that Apple unique position demands it take an alternative approach. Microsoft's new software will eventually be bundled on every new PC sold, outside of Apple's, so there's no need to worry about leaking features or showing off the flaws of an unfinished product. Microsoft doesn't have to sell Windows 7, it only has to worry about market rejection. Due to the volumes of PCs it will eventually be installed on, it's bound to be successful even if it is a marginal product.

By contrast, Apple has to vigorously sell Macs against all odds. It has to deliver products as they are completed in order to awe the market both with its differentiated features and its finished quality. If Apple were to open up Snow Leopard to public review, the Windows-aligned tech media would have a field day complaining about its minor errors, as they worked so hard to do at Leopard's actual release. There would also be an immediate call to port Snow Leopard's look and features into Windows, erasing Apple's competitive advantages before the company could even begin selling its work.

Windows Vista worked hard to incorporate versions of Mac OS X features, but Apple was still able to show off unique features in Leopard at its release.

Rumored enhancements

The lack of a public beta means that users will be kept guessing about the finishing touches to Snow Leopard up until its release. One rumor calls for a new unified appearance called Marble, a like assumption given Apple's consistent efforts to brand and identify each reference release of Mac OS X with user interface improvements. Apple's own apps, notably Logic Pro 8, iTunes, iLife, and iWork, provide clues to the company's direction.

Apple will also be incrementally improving upon technologies that already exist in Leopard, from accessibility features like Voice Over, to new font Auto Activation in Font Book, to resolution independence, which is required to support the increasing screen density of modern displays.

MobileMe suggests new features related to managing notes, tasks, and events in Snow Leopard's apps (as well as on the iPhone). Document sync with iWork.com makes sense too, as does expanded functionality within Back to My Mac, Leopard's mashup of Bonjour and IPv6 VPNs that allows users to share their home files and devices with their mobile notebook while traveling. New geotagging services in iPhoto and location lookups in iMovie indicate the potential for moving expanded location-related services to the operating system level for all apps to use.

Apple's tight integration between its operating system and its hardware allows the company to deliver new innovation at a remarkable pace. Apple can build in hardware support and deliver immediate operating system integration for it, as it did when upgrading its notebook audio to optical digital interfaces, or in moving decisively to MiniDisplayPort graphics and multitouch trackpads.

Until completed versions of Snow Leopard and Windows 7 ship, the closest we can get is a look at the betas. The next segment will look at installing and using the Windows 7 public beta.
post #2 of 153
I thought that GCC technically stood for GNU Compiler Collection.
post #3 of 153
What OSX really needs is a better support for multiscreen usage.
the minimum they could do is an expandable menubar. I hate the Dejamenu thing.
post #4 of 153
Where is it ?

I haven't seen any trace of improvement in the latest 10.6 10A222 dev preview

Come on Apple, it's been since 10.3 that you've been working on it ! Do we have to wait till 10.7 for it ?!

Adi
post #5 of 153
Really

I don't need the checklist comparison with W7.
There are plenty of sites giving me info on W7 and
not enough with good solid info on Snow Leopard.

What would make for a more interesting article is
a good explanation of how Grand Central is going to
work with the new programming paradigm Blocks. How
OpenCL is going to boost some applications. How UI
changes could finally bring Resolution Independence.
How metadata improvements will make Spotlight better.

Every sentence devoted to a platform W7 that I won't use
as my default OS is superfluous and dead space. I don't
care about W7 other than an app or two I may run. I do
care about OS X the OS I will spend hours in.

Just a helpful suggestion.
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post #6 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by adisor19 View Post

Where is it ?

I haven't seen any trace of improvement in the latest 10.6 10A222 dev preview

Come on Apple, it's been since 10.3 that you've been working on it ! Do we have to wait till 10.7 for it ?!

Adi

RI would be very nice. I do hope it is fully functional in SL.

PS: SL hasn't been updated since 10-DEC-2008. Still doesn't have driver support for the new unibody Mac notebooks.
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post #7 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by dichterDichter View Post

What OSX really needs is a better support for multiscreen usage. the minimum they could do is an expandable menubar. I hate the Dejamenu thing.

Right. Because they should really focus like a laser on a feature that bothers 1 or 2 percent of their user base to the exclusion of other things.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #8 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

R... Every sentence devoted to a platform W7 that I won't use
as my default OS is superfluous and dead space. I don't care about W7 other than an app or two I may run. I do care about OS X the OS I will spend hours in.

Just a helpful suggestion.

How is leaving out any mention of Windows 7 a helpful suggestion for a series of articles entitled:

"Windows 7 vs. Mac OS-X Snow Leopard"
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #9 of 153
I've been involved in computer user training since 1980. I have worked on operating systems from AppleDos and CPM through Unix, MS-DOS, Windows, and Mac. At this point, the debate between the latest Mac OS and the latest Windows OS is moot. Both systems do everything 99.999% of the users want and need and do it quite well. The user should try both of them in stores and make up their own mind.

It reminds me of when I was a professional photographer (before digital cameras). People would ask "Nikon vs. Canon" and I would say "Both of them are more than you need. Buy the one that feels best in your hand." The same could apply to the OS wars now.
post #10 of 153
I'll be very happy if the ZFS file system will be available also in the ”client” version of Snow Leopard.
Last thing I heard was that it will be released for the server version of OS X only.
post #11 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: SL hasn't been updated since 10-DEC-2008. Still doesn't have driver support for the new unibody Mac notebooks.

Uh, no.

If you think that Snow Leopard hasn't been updated since early December you are sorely mistaken. I assure you that internal builds are far more advanced now.

What you mean is that no newer builds of Snow Leopard have been leaked or released to developers outside of Apple. BIG difference.
post #12 of 153
Have we got any idea when it expected for release? 2Q/3Q? I am on OSX 10.4 and i have a iPhone app i really want to put together. The SDK says it runs on 10.5+ and i don't really want to upgrade to that if 10.6 is just a couple of months down the line.
post #13 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdPrize View Post

Have we got any idea when it expected for release? 2Q/3Q? I am on OSX 10.4 and i have a iPhone app i really want to put together. The SDK says it runs on 10.5+ and i don't really want to upgrade to that if 10.6 is just a couple of months down the line.

I'd be willing to wager that Snow Leopard will be released when Steve is well enough to do the Keynote for it. I'm just sayin'....

They are probably using every extra day that they have to further improve everything, not to mention the list of known bugs that they normally have to squash shortly after release with an update. Perhaps this extension (until July if I remember correctly for Steve's medical leave) will allow them the time to really squash a lot of the problem bugs and ship a remarkably solid OS.

Regardless, my 3 GHz Octo-core Mac Pro eagerly awaits Snow Leopard.
post #14 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Right. Because they should really focus like a laser on a feature that bothers 1 or 2 percent of their user base to the exclusion of other things.

yeah, only someone like microsoft would do something that stupid.

I love dual monitor support, and you probably would too if you did any business. I cross reference every day between multiple documents and its so much easier to be able to see them all at once, and you only have to double click the title bar and windows automatically sets the window to take up half the screen, so two documents fit perfectly side by side on the screen.

And the guy who wrote the article should get his facts straight. I've been using multi-touch trackpads for years now on my $400 laptop. Synaptics has been coming up with new gestures faster than anyone. Also, every program I use on my laptop has spell check. And my laptop runs Windows XP. And Windows XP is almost 8 years old?

I hardly call those innovations.


Oh, and last I checked "Steve" is still on the board of directors with Disney. I think you are sadly mistaken that he is even sick.
He leaves, stocks drop 10-15%. They slowly go back up because Apple is a reliable company. "Steve" comes back and stocks boom. Then he invests even more in other companies.
post #15 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry-T View Post

I've been involved in computer user training since 1980. I have worked on operating systems from AppleDos and CPM through Unix, MS-DOS, Windows, and Mac. At this point, the debate between the latest Mac OS and the latest Windows OS is moot. Both systems do everything 99.999% of the users want and need and do it quite well. The user should try both of them in stores and make up their own mind.

Surely those complaints about Vista are coming from more than 0.001% of users. I imagine you could say the same about OS X though the percentage satisfaction numbers are much different than Vista.
post #16 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by PersonMan View Post

Uh, no.

If you think that Snow Leopard hasn't been updated since early December you are sorely mistaken. I assure you that internal builds are far more advanced now.

What you mean is that no newer builds of Snow Leopard have been leaked or released to developers outside of Apple. BIG difference.

Um, yeah, of course that is what I mean. Who would honestly think that Apple has shelved their next OS for over a month? And why would I mention the internal builds that I have no ability to access and would surely not be discussing on this forum if I did have access to them because I'd then be an Apple employee or doing something very shady?
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post #17 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpg131313 View Post

I'd be willing to wager that Snow Leopard will be released when Steve is well enough to do the Keynote for it. I'm just sayin'....
.

Ok, exactly how much are you willing to wager?

Sentimentality plays no part in Apple's thinking. Anybody suggesting that to Steve would be out on their arse.
post #18 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threpac View Post

Oh, and last I checked "Steve" is still on the board of directors with Disney. I think you are sadly mistaken that he is even sick.
He leaves, stocks drop 10-15%. They slowly go back up because Apple is a reliable company. "Steve" comes back and stocks boom. Then he invests even more in other companies.

AND he shot Kennedy.... from the grassy knoll..... 9/11.......bzzzt...ftt...zzzz....
post #19 of 153
Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!

Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!

OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees!
post #20 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

AND he shot Kennedy.... from the grassy knoll..... 9/11.......bzzzt...ftt...zzzz....

hah

____________
iPhone, iPod
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iPhone, iPod
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post #21 of 153
All I want from any new OS release is please, for the love of God, do something about system font conflicts with the Helvetica family. License the real Helvetica and Helvetica Neue, fix the system versions so the font metrics match... ANYTHING.

That'd be a feature most design shops would kill for.
post #22 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bpg131313 View Post

I'd be willing to wager that Snow Leopard will be released when Steve is well enough to do the Keynote for it. I'm just sayin'....

They are probably using every extra day that they have to further improve everything, not to mention the list of known bugs that they normally have to squash shortly after release with an update. Perhaps this extension (until July if I remember correctly for Steve's medical leave) will allow them the time to really squash a lot of the problem bugs and ship a remarkably solid OS.

Regardless, my 3 GHz Octo-core Mac Pro eagerly awaits Snow Leopard.

Sorry, but from the looks of Jobs AIDS infection, I don't see him returning to Apple!
post #23 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post

Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!

Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!

OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees! And I like Dildoes in my bum

Wow..haven't seen a winbot troll here in a while. Welcome to AI...leave your toys on your dresser please.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #24 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post

Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!

Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!

OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees!

I feel a bit bad about dignifying your input with a response, but three words:

100% POSIX compliant.
post #25 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by luvwknd View Post

Why even make the comparison because it's like comparing a Porsche to a VW!

Windows is an Enterprise level platform used by major corporations world wide!

OSX is a toy platform used by people in the homes and it still can't do this well. Mac and their OSX will never grow up to be an Enterprise level platform and will always be a toy for people that think they are IT professionals or wannabees!

This has to be the saddest trolling I have seen in a long time.
post #26 of 153
Very good article, thanks for the reading!
post #27 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Threpac View Post

yeah, only someone like microsoft would do something that stupid.
Oh, and last I checked "Steve" is still on the board of directors with Disney. I think you are sadly mistaken that he is even sick.
He leaves, stocks drop 10-15%. They slowly go back up because Apple is a reliable company. "Steve" comes back and stocks boom. Then he invests even more in other companies.

The "Steve" you're "talking about" is also still on the board of Apple, and is also still CEO. So much for your "theory."
post #28 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As the Snow Leopard release grows closer (remarks at WWDC last summer indicated it would ship "in about a year," or Summer 2009), more details have been released.

What the heck are you talking about? I knew about all this back when it was discussed at WWDC. There was already all the mention of QuickTimeX, multi-core developer tools, 64 bit, new filesystem, multitouch improvements, microsoft exchange, and all that other stuff. Anything not mentioned back at wwdc was a minor feature. Leopard had hudnreds of new features, and only really talked about ten of them. Snow Leopard only really talks about 4 or 5 of them... And if you ask me, the performance and cross-compatibility improvements in Snow Leoaprd greatly outweight the next Time Machine or Spotlight.
post #29 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Right. Because they should really focus like a laser on a feature that bothers 1 or 2 percent of their user base to the exclusion of other things.

You know, adding a menu bar to the top of each screen isn't exactly difficult, and it would make a lot of people's lives easier.
post #30 of 153
>"Due to the volumes of PCs it will eventually be installed on, it's bound to be successful even if it is a marginal product."

The OEM scenario was the same when Vista was released and it was not successful. Many corporations decided not to upgrade and consumers demanded an XP downgrade. SUCCESS NOT GUARANTEED. false statement

>"Windows 7 perpetuates this problem by delaying the move to 64-bits to a future release."

Most applications will have a 64-bit version for windows 7. Certainly all microsoft products will and game developers have been making 64-bit binaries for years. If there are a few apps that are still 32 that's only because Windows has 500x the software firm development as Mac. Mac is at an advantage because they are so proprietary with their hardware but Windows 7 comes in 64-bit. period.

>"Snow Leopard will extend touch frameworks to developers to allow them to take full advantage of multitouch trackpads in innovative ways, all without users having go out and purchase their own touch screen monitors.

In the context of mac you say "trackpads" but when talking about non mac users you say they have to buy "touch screen monitors". Making it sound like a huge purchase. Windows users can easily buy affordable multitouch trackpads. It's not as though the mac Multitouch trackpad is not factored in to the mac total price. Way to exaggerate the contrast between the two.

>"Microsoft, in contrast, is betting upon its own Silverlight, a Flash-like, proprietary platform for web development that ties web applications to the company's own development tools and runtime rather than leveraging open web standards for interoperability."

How is Microsoft's use of "proprietary platform" different from Apple's MobileME and iWork? What "open standards" is Apple trying to promote? Or are you saying because they are working on a java engine that they are promoting open standards indirectly?The only difference between MS and Apple here is your characterization which is way off.

I'm going to stop here. This article was so disappointing. Apple has not upped the ante. Although the author is forcefully trying to on his own. This is a worthy of an editorial post in the forums, not a news article. There was nothing new! Up your standards.
post #31 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince View Post

The "Steve" you're "talking about" is also still on the board of Apple, and is also still CEO. So much for your "theory."

You've never taken an English class have you?
But first, let me answer.
The SEC has been investigating Steve Jobs sudden disappearance from Apple and apparently had met with executives after his leave of absence, according to the SEC's sources.

And here's how quotations work: When taking a term or name used by another source, it is required by the English language to put quotations around the word. Also, it is common courtesy to address someone you do not personally know either by using his or her last name, or by using his or her full name. I was simply mocking the people who are in love with this man. He is definitely an innovator but he is also a jerk. He stole the idea of the mouse from xerox, and now gladly takes all of the credit for that. he has stolen many ideas, just like everyone else, and is nothing special.

Seriously, can't anyone read the news?
post #32 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by a Martin View Post

I'll be very happy if the ZFS file system will be available also in the client version of Snow Leopard.
Last thing I heard was that it will be released for the server version of OS X only.

I really don't know if it will be released in client or not, but the more important question is whether it will matter at all. Even if it is released the chances of being able to boot off a ZFS volume are really slim. And since 95%+ of all users have only a single hard drive, and only a single (non-Bootcamp) volume on that, ZFS becomes moot.

Additionally I would argue that ZFS's strengths really kick in only when you have multiple drives put into the same pool, and that sort of thing is beyond most people. I do recognize that there are some strengths with only a single volume (checksum scrubbing, snapshots, etc), but there are also a lot of problems with it at the moment (Sun is only now starting to have support for booting, and recognize that there are problems on heavily loaded systems). And some of the strengths come with huge caveats: snapshots are nice, but when you start running out of space on the drive what do you do? You can't just eliminate older versions of a large file, you have to wiping out the whole snapshot.

So Apple may well have read/write support for ZFS in 'client, but it is only going to be advertised for 'server, where having your remote-user data on a separate volume is not only supported bu actively recommended. And even there I bet Apple will be conservative and list it as supported rather than recommended.
post #33 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokuwaomar View Post

You know, adding a menu bar to the top of each screen isn't exactly difficult, and it would make a lot of people's lives easier.

Well, yeah. I was being overly snarky I guess. Sorry.

I bet if you asked Apple's designers about this though, they would say that this problem was "fixed" by the addition of spaces in Leopard. I'm not sure I would disagree either. It's the same kind of "solve it with software" thing that Apple did with iPhone's keyboard.

Almost all the techies where I work use multiple screens so I know what you are talking about though. IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that. The extra screen is typically for watching some process or other, or monitoring a server somewhere, neither of which is *really* necessary to have the second screen for (again IMO).

Personally I never liked switching my head around all the time, so I've used virtual desktop (software) solutions (on every computer I've had that allows it) for many years.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #34 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbread View Post

>How is Microsoft's use of "proprietary platform" different from Apple's MobileME and iWork? What "open standards" is Apple trying to promote? Or are you saying because they are working on a java engine that they are promoting open standards indirectly?The only difference between MS and Apple here is your characterization which is way off.

Read: http://www.apple.com/opensource/

They are very different.
post #35 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by wonderbread View Post

>This article was so disappointing. Apple has not upped the ante. Although the author is forcefully trying to on his own. This is a worthy of an editorial post in the forums, not a news article. There was nothing new! Up your standards.

QFT, this article is completely one sided when not simply intellectually dishonest. Some people should stop writing for fanbois...
post #36 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that.

Shortsighted!

What about studio use? In Logic I can have the workspace (audio tracks/midi tracks) on one monitor, and all the EQs, faders and effects on another. Its infinitely more conducive to a smooth work flow than constantly opening/closing/arranging windows, or COMMAND+`ing through the app windows.

Video editing? One monitor dedicated to the video output, and one for all your editing/tracking.

Full screen gaming? Lots of games force-fullscreen, meaning you have to quit out of them to do anything else. Dual monitors negates that.
post #37 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Karl Kuehn View Post

Additionally I would argue that ZFS's strengths really kick in only when you have multiple drives put into the same pool, and that sort of thing is beyond most people. I do recognize that there are some strengths with only a single volume (checksum scrubbing, snapshots, etc), but there are also a lot of problems with it at the moment (Sun is only now starting to have support for booting, and recognize that there are problems on heavily loaded systems). And some of the strengths come with huge caveats: snapshots are nice, but when you start running out of space on the drive what do you do? You can't just eliminate older versions of a large file, you have to wiping out the whole snapshot.

Yes I'm pretty sure that if Apple embraces ZFS it'll be in 10.7 and come with Time Machine 2 which will leverage ZFS snapshots. My hope is that by the time 10.7 ships Apple has somehow delivered a method for saving iTunes ,iWork, iLife etc documents on a network share. I'd really love it if they made it easy to only send delta changes across for most documents for fast network performance.

Right now many consumers are at the precipice of needing network storage. In a couple more years I feel like we'll be at the point where it'll make more sense. We'll have the final 802.11n specification and NAS running on ARM or Atom class chips will make storage devices faster. ZFS will benefit from another 2 years of development and be ready for primetime.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
- SolipsismX
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post #38 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Well, yeah. I was being overly snarky I guess. Sorry.

I bet if you asked Apple's designers about this though, they would say that this problem was "fixed" by the addition of spaces in Leopard. I'm not sure I would disagree either. It's the same kind of "solve it with software" thing that Apple did with iPhone's keyboard.

Almost all the techies where I work use multiple screens so I know what you are talking about though. IMO however, having multiple screens is mostly a status thing, even though none would admit to that. The extra screen is typically for watching some process or other, or monitoring a server somewhere, neither of which is *really* necessary to have the second screen for (again IMO).

Personally I never liked switching my head around all the time, so I've used virtual desktop (software) solutions (on every computer I've had that allows it) for many years.

Apple is marketing their new LED Cinema Display as a docking station for notebooks though, and the main benefit of using the LED Cinema Display would not be the second screen, but the larger screen.
post #39 of 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by arkizzle View Post

Shortsighted!

What about studio use? In Logic I can have the workspace (audio tracks/midi tracks) on one monitor, and all the EQs, faders and effects on another. Its infinitely more conducive to a smooth work flow than constantly opening/closing/arranging windows, or COMMAND+`ing through the app windows.

Video editing? One monitor dedicated to the video output, and one for all your editing/tracking.

Full screen gaming? Lots of games force-fullscreen, meaning you have to quit out of them to do anything else. Dual monitors negates that.

Well yeah I was talking from my own experience only and completely ignored the creative workers.

On the other hand, none of the uses you mention necessitates a second menu bar or a travelling menu bar.

In any case I'm not rabidly opposed to multiple monitors, I'm just reasoning through why Apple may not have included the support the original poster asked for.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #40 of 153
There's one part of this column that I disagree with:

Quote:
...as well as new advancements to Safari 4.0 and its SquirelFish Extreme JavaScript engine. The latter two will help to accelerate a new wave of sophisticated web applications, including Apple's own SproutCore-based MobileMe and iWork.com, as well as other HTML5 applications from partners such as Google, which are similarly working to develop open, interoperable, and high performance web apps with desktop-style features based upon industry standards.

Microsoft, in contrast, is betting upon its own Silverlight, a Flash-like, proprietary platform for web development that ties web applications to the company's own development tools and runtime rather than leveraging open web standards for interoperability.

The author assumes that rich internet applications (RIA) won't gain traction, and that standards-compliant AJAX apps will be the preferred development and delivery mechanism for next-generation (Web 3.0) websites. He's wrong.

First of all, I'm a Java programmer who's spent the better part of my career developing web applications. I've dealt with the pain of learning HTML, JavaScript, and CSS, and having to integrate them all into web applications. I've also done basic AJAX programming and have dabbled in Google Web Toolkit and Flex. Most importantly, I had to support those web applications in Internet Explorer and Netscape, even though I wished I only had to develop them for Firefox.

Having said that all of that, there are several very important reasons why Web 2.0 and AJAX technologies that rely on open standards (and broken standards like in IE) will not be prevalent for Web 3.0 applications:

1) Developers of server-side technologies such as Java hate working with client-side technologies such as HTML, JavaScript and CSS.
2) Web developers despise having to test their webapps on different browsers and get them to function identically across them. With the rise in fortunes of Macs and Firefox, any serious web developer must test their webapps on at least 4 browsers (IE 6, IE 7, Firefox, and Safari). There is no unified runtime to develop on.
3) The quality of development tools for server-side technologies (Eclipse, Netbeans, and VisualStudio) has historically been radically superior to those for client-side web technologies. For instance, it's only been recently that there have been quality JavaScript debuggers.
4) Internet Explorer. As long as Microsoft either purposefully or accidentally breaks web standards, there will be one less reason to develop web applications in HTML/JavaScript/CSS.
5) Even with a single browser that implements web standards perfectly, there is only so much functionality that can be implemented in web standard technologies.

And here are the reasons why RIA technologies like Flash, Silverlight and JavaFX will prevail:

1) Unified runtime. Developers only need to code to a single runtime and test within that runtime. There's no need to switch between the browser and IDE, and there's a full debugging environment available for the client-side code.
2) Rich GUI functionality such as charts, animations, graphs, and other bells and whistles come as pre-packaged and reusable components that developers can simply plug into their apps.
3) This is not true of Flash, but Silverlight and JavaFX offer seamless integration with their server-side equivalents (ie, .NET/C# and the Java VM and libraries).

Having said that, which RIA framework has the advantage? Well, I would say either Silverlight or JavaFX, based on point #3. .NET and Java are mature server-side technologies with fantastic development tools (Visual Studio, Eclipse, and Netbeans).

JavaFX has one important advantage over Silverlight in this regard: JavaFX will be 100% open source, although only the compiler and tools are fully open source, with parts of the graphics libraries still closed source. This means JavaFX has the opportunity to become the open source community's RIA tool of choice, which will be a tremendous advantage.
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