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Installing Windows 7 beta on a Mac with Sun VirtualBox

post #1 of 57
Thread Starter 
Microsofts public beta of Windows 7 is similar enough to Vista that it is fairly easy to install on a Mac, either using BootCamp to install it natively, or within a virtual environment. Heres whats involved with obtaining the beta and installing it using Sun's free VirtualBox software.

Not intended for Macs?

While Microsoft makes far more revenue selling a retail box of Windows to an Intel Mac user than it does bundling the software on a new PC (hundreds of dollars retail versus around $30 for an OEM license), the company doesnt seem too view that potential Mac market very seriously.

Prior to the move to Intel, Microsoft sold Virtual PC to Mac users as a way to enhance its Office suite. However, ever since Intel Macs gained the ability to run Windows at full, native speed, the company has spared little effort promoting it to Mac buyers, who as a demographic buy more software at retail prices.

That is likely because the majority of Mac users who have some need to run a Windows application work for a corporation that can supply them with a low cost volume license. Not too many home users who go out of their way to buy a Mac are likely to dash out and get a full retail copy of Windows, as one can often buy a new PC for nearly as much as the full retail copy of Windows, particularly since the price of retail boxes of Windows went up with the launch of Vista.

Jumping through the download hoops

As we prepared to install the Windows 7 beta, we found that Microsoft hadnt exactly rolled out the red carpet for Mac users. From the first login page (required to access the beta site), Microsofts warning message alarmingly trails off into nothing for Safari users because the text is too big for the space allotted (below).



The text actually says: To register for the Windows 7 Beta, please log-in here with your Windows Live ID. We strongly recommend only experienced computer users participatethose who are comfortable backing up a computer, formatting a hard drive, installing an operating system, and troubleshooting their own technical problems. Dont install the Beta on your primary home or work computer. The Beta will expire on August 1, 2009. Please be prepared to reinstall a prior version of Windows or a subsequent release of Windows 7 before that date.

Using Firefox, we ran into show stopper security warnings because Microsofts security certificate doesnt match its domain name. To get past this, you have to confirm a security exception, a step which Firefox insists legitimate banks, stores, and other public sites will not ask you to do (below).



Safari presents a slightly simpler warning that allows you to continue with a single click rather than stepping though the more elaborate exception process within Firefox.



Once past all this mess, Microsoft insists that you download and install its Silverlight 2 web plugin (a step that requires a browser restart) in order to pop up a simple download window to begin copying over the Windows 7 disc image (below).



The 2.44 GB image will take some time to download. Over our 16-megabit cable Internet connection, the download required 52 minutes to complete.

Along with the file download, Microsoft creates a 25-character string for you to type in during the installation, apparently so you dont pirate the free beta. Given that installing an operating system typically precludes being able to copy and paste the license key, this print out the key and type in manually step seems egregious, particularly for Mac users accustomed to not needing any license key to install Mac OS X.

A virtual install

Installing the beta in a virtual environment is identical to setting up Windows Vista, as the new operating system is essentially Vista with some general (largely user interface) enhancements. On an architectural level, they are nearly identical.

Burn the beta disc image to a DVD, then set up a new Vista PC in your virtual software of choice, and Windows 7 will pretty much install itself. We initially tried using Parallels Desktop 3, but it has some compatibility issues with the beta that render it unworkable.

The newer version of Parallels software addresses those, but we took the opportunity to try Suns free, open source VirtualBox software instead. Parallels, VMware Fusion, and VirtualBox are all very similar in how they work, making the free software from Sun an easy choice for quickly setting up the new beta without any added expense.

Suns software is a bit rough around the edges for a Mac application (using such weird user interface conventions such as the non-functional, purple close box on the preferences window below), but seems to work acceptably.



All three virtual environments emulate a basic PC with middle of the road components. The CPU itself isnt actually emulated, of course, because Intel Macs have one of those natively.

However, Windows 7 running in one of these environments doesnt see your Macs native hardware, but rather the more generic lowest common denominator PC hardware those virtual apps present to the operating system.

For example, the Sun VirtualBox software presents Windows 7 with an Intel PRO/1000 gigabit Ethernet network adaptor by default (below), regardless of the actual network interface actually installed in your Mac model.



This tends to make installing Windows in a virtual environment very easy, because no special drivers are needed to get it up and running. All you do is run through the basic setup steps presented by Windows.

Unlike XP, Windows 7 no longer drops down into DOS-looking text modes during its several reboots of the install process; instead, it begins with 2001 era, NT-looking windows that quickly adopt the Vista Aero-look as the install process continues.



After keying in that long license number, there isnt much to set up during the install process, apart from optionally setting up HomeGroup, Microsofts new technology for sharing files and devices with nearly the simplicity of a Mac.

Be sure to write down the insane password it generates for you (below), as a weak password would be far worse than a strong password jotted down on a sticky note next to your PC.



The dual boot alternative

Using Windows 7 in a virtual environment is fast enough for running the occasional Windows app, but it isnt suitable for playing Windows-only games or other applications that demand the full performance of the system. For that, youll want to set up your Mac using Boot Camp and install Windows natively.

The next segment will look at setting up Windows 7 natively on a Mac, and what additional issues are involved over using it in a virtual environment.

Previous Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard segments

Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: competitive origins
Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: Microsoft's comeback plan
Windows 7 vs. Mac OS X Snow Leopard: Apple ups the ante
post #2 of 57
Grabbed the download link from XP on my VMware machine. Downloaded with safari, burned to a DVDR.

Installed in VMware without a hitch (Told it was a vista box) installed the VM additions.
Installed in bootcamp too for native running, used the drivers from the OS X restore DVD with no problems.

Runs well and is faster than Vista.

To be honest apart from the faffing around to get the download link from microsoft its no more difficult than setting up XP or Vista on a virtual machine.
post #3 of 57
HomeGroup looks unnecessarily complicated. The average home user does not want to be presented with technical things and is going to freak out when they are forced to use a gobbledygook (but of course more secure) password.
post #4 of 57
Hey, Kasper, why didn't you just mounted the image in Virtualbox and let it install from the image? That would've been *a lot* faster, and hassle free.
Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
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Now running on a 20" aluminium iMac (Fall 2008), as well as a Macboook Pro 13" (mid 2009) and an iPhone.
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post #5 of 57
I just mounted the .iso with Parallels 4 and was Windows7-ing in less than half an hour. This Sun thing is a bit random, never heard of it, how does it perform? Something worth checking out compared to VMWare and Parallels? Stability? Anybody?
post #6 of 57
Bootcamps drivers won't load. So all you get is an 800x600 view. No trackpad clicks or sound.
post #7 of 57
If you check Parallels forums you will the way to make Win7 run just fine using Parallels 3. You have make a few parts of Parallels Desktop run in virtual mode set to XP.
post #8 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawporta View Post

Bootcamps drivers won't load. So all you get is an 800x600 view. No trackpad clicks or sound.

install drivers from your leopard discs then download the Bootcamp update from Apple. Works fine with my 24" iMac
post #9 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawporta View Post

Bootcamps drivers won't load. So all you get is an 800x600 view. No trackpad clicks or sound.

Works great with my unibody MBP too. My friend did have trouble with his Mac Pro though.
post #10 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I just mounted the .iso with Parallels 4 and was Windows7-ing in less than half an hour. This Sun thing is a bit random, never heard of it, how does it perform? Something worth checking out compared to VMWare and Parallels? Stability? Anybody?

I use it at work running XP and it does everything I need. Mostly just keeping Outlook running and a couple of Windows apps we use to interact with HR.
post #11 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by smoketx View Post

I use it at work running XP and it does everything I need. Mostly just keeping Outlook running and a couple of Windows apps we use to interact with HR.

XP is still dominant in the corporate space. For the life of me I can't come up with a reason to upgrade my VM to Vista, much less be an early adopter of W7.

It's supposed to be faster and lighter, but I doubt it. To the bloated .Net frameworks they now appear to have added Silverlight as another needless requirement. The basic Microsoft philosophy of adding interlocking layers of junk seems unchanged. I support my wife's Vista laptop, and that's enough of a headache as it is.
post #12 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

XP is still dominant in the corporate space. For the life of me I can't come up with a reason to upgrade my VM to Vista, much less be an early adopter of W7.

It's supposed to be faster and lighter, but I doubt it. To the bloated .Net frameworks they now appear to have added Silverlight as another needless requirement. The basic Microsoft philosophy of adding interlocking layers of junk seems unchanged. I support my wife's Vista laptop, and that's enough of a headache as it is.

I have played around with it and can attest that it is better in beta than Vista. I haven't used it too much but it seems just as quick and I'm sure it will get quicker in the GM. Vista noticeably improved from beta to GM. The company I work for was, at some point, going to upgrade to Vista, but after playing around with Windows 7 we are going to skip right to it. When Ballmer admits that it is what Vista should have been, you know you are better off waiting.
post #13 of 57
There is a more complete guide to setting up Windows 7 in VirtualBox at http://littlemacblog.wordpress.com/2...vm-virtualbox/ if anyone is interested
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post #14 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Be sure to write down the insane password it generates for you (below), as a weak password would be far worse than a strong password jotted down on a sticky note next to your PC.

I realise this is completely off-topic, but this point should be well made to all those idiots in IT who think that having password aging is a good idea. I work in an environment where I have to keep track of the logins for about ten different systems, all with different password requirements and which have passwords that expire at 30 or 60 days. Because I can't possibly remember these passwords, I have had to rely on storing those passwords in my bookmarks (I do use 1Password now, but that's not the point).

So my question to all of you password aging idiots is: Is it better to have a password that I can remember that never expires, or a password that expires and cannot be reused forcing me to store my passwords in a format (plain-text) that can easily be found?

Yeah, I thought you'd agree with me.

Now then, back on-topic
post #15 of 57
I am trying to install it with boot camp but I keep getting the error message that says "installer disc cannot be found."

I realize this message is a bit OT but man if anybody knows how to get around this, I would be extremely grateful. I'd like to wait for the next feature that covers boot camp, but the weekend is pretty much here and I want to get this done asap!

Thanks again!
post #16 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Microsofts public beta of Windows 7 is similar enough to Vista that it is fairly easy to install on a Mac, either using BootCamp to install it natively, or within a virtual environment. Heres whats involved with obtaining the beta and installing it using Sun's free VirtualBox software.

BTW, one really important point the article should have mentioned is that the public beta for Windows 7 is going to close any day. Microsoft has opened it up to the first 2.5 million downloads (which may sound like a lot, but remember how many PC users are out there).

When I downloaded it yesterday, the beta site specifically mentioned that people should download it as soon as possible because they would be closing the beta very shortly.
post #17 of 57
When I first installed Win 7 on my bootcamp partition I thought it was great (on my new MBP 2.8GHz/4GB). The first few programs installed just fine. Then I tried installing Adobe Reader 9, and it got to the end of the install and then said there was an error, so it uninstalled (this is after I installed bootcamp drivers). Then I tried installing Maya, and I got a similar error. Since I couldn't install all of my graphics programs, I had to go back to vista 64, which I hate because it freezes left and right. I'm thinking of creating a full backup of my windows partition, and then installing SP2 for Vista. Maybe that will help reduce the shut-down time from 13 minutes!
post #18 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlderMoore View Post

When I first installed Win 7 on my bootcamp partition I thought it was great (on my new MBP 2.8GHz/4GB). The first few programs installed just fine. Then I tried installing Adobe Reader 9, and it got to the end of the install and then said there was an error, so it uninstalled (this is after I installed bootcamp drivers). Then I tried installing Maya, and I got a similar error. Since I couldn't install all of my graphics programs, I had to go back to vista 64, which I hate because it freezes left and right. I'm thinking of creating a full backup of my windows partition, and then installing SP2 for Vista. Maybe that will help reduce the shut-down time from 13 minutes!

I thought that some of the AI topics on 64-bit Windows vs 64-bit Snow Leopard have suggested that there are a lot of compatibility issues with 64-bit Windows and not just drivers, but applications that are not written to be 64-bit compatible. This is undoubtedly why the vast majority of Windows installations are on the 32-bit platform... Unless you need 64 bit (which maybe you do for a memory-intensive program such as Maya), perhaps you should try out the 32-bit version of W7...
post #19 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

...
Installed in VMware without a hitch (Told it was a vista box) installed the VM additions.

The first time I tried installing in VMWare I used the Vista64 setting but I was running into strange screen problems. Looking at the VMWare support board I saw someone mention using Windows 2008 instead. I tried that and it has worked without issue.

I wonder what the difference might have been between our systems? I am using a BlackBook (2.2GHz, 4GB of RAM). I was also installing the x64 version of the beta (for no particular reason) so maybe that was the issue.

It does seem to run pretty well now that it is working.

-kpluck

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post #20 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I just mounted the .iso with Parallels 4 and was Windows7-ing in less than half an hour. This Sun thing is a bit random, never heard of it, how does it perform? Something worth checking out compared to VMWare and Parallels? Stability? Anybody?

VirtualBox is pretty reasonable. Once you install the native package its integration is nice, and performance is adequate for casual use. Since it's free and can read VMWare virtual disks, it's pretty easy to try out, too.

I did the Windows 7 thing on it a couple weeks ago and it went a lot more smoothly than this article seems to imply. Just downloaded the iso, mounted it in a new virtual machine, and booted. It booted from the CD and installed Windows 7 normally.
post #21 of 57
geez... I can't see how all this can make a story.

on vmware site there are windows 7 virtual appliances, ready to use with the free player, since before the public beta release...

http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/61622
http://www.vmware.com/appliances/directory/63752
post #22 of 57
So im planning to run W7 on bootcamp, i was wondering which version i should use, 64bit or 32 bit. I have the new Unibody Macbook with 4gb ram. Im just not sure.
post #23 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

BTW, one really important point the article should have mentioned is that the public beta for Windows 7 is going to close any day. Microsoft has opened it up to the first 2.5 million downloads (which may sound like a lot, but remember how many PC users are out there).

When I downloaded it yesterday, the beta site specifically mentioned that people should download it as soon as possible because they would be closing the beta very shortly.

Beta download is available until February 10th. No download limit until then.

Source: http://windowsteamblog.com/blogs/win...ta-to-end.aspx
post #24 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I thought that some of the AI topics on 64-bit Windows vs 64-bit Snow Leopard have suggested that there are a lot of compatibility issues with 64-bit Windows and not just drivers, but applications that are not written to be 64-bit compatible. This is undoubtedly why the vast majority of Windows installations are on the 32-bit platform... Unless you need 64 bit (which maybe you do for a memory-intensive program such as Maya), perhaps you should try out the 32-bit version of W7...

The 64-bit versions of Windows does not need 64-bit applications, but drivers. And yes, every driver must be 64-bit and "signed" (=officially licensed for security) or the specific device will not work.

Most of new Windows systems come with 64-bit version of Vista.
post #25 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Beta download is available until February 10th. No download limit until then.

Thanks for the clarification. The note on the download site says, "Time is running out! We'll be closing the Customer Preview Program for new registrations soon. So if you want to try the Windows 7 Beta, be sure to register and download within the next few days. (Now would be a good time, actually.)"

This had me thinking any minute now
post #26 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by TiAdiMundo View Post

Most of new Windows systems come with 64-bit version of Vista.

I guess that makes sense, since the vendor will ensure that 64-bit versions of their drivers are available. I'm installing on a cheapo machine I built with generic parts and don't want to fight driver issues if I can avoid it, so I grabbed the 32-bit version.
post #27 of 57
Yeah, VirtualBox is pretty awesome. I introduced it at my company and the majority of our developers that use winblows in a VM are now using VirtualBox. Unlike the VMWare/Parallels solutions, VirtualBox is free and always will be, and it seems faster, too (though not for games).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

VirtualBox is pretty reasonable. Once you install the native package its integration is nice, and performance is adequate for casual use. Since it's free and can read VMWare virtual disks, it's pretty easy to try out, too.

I did the Windows 7 thing on it a couple weeks ago and it went a lot more smoothly than this article seems to imply. Just downloaded the iso, mounted it in a new virtual machine, and booted. It booted from the CD and installed Windows 7 normally.
post #28 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I realise this is completely off-topic, but this point should be well made to all those idiots in IT who think that having password aging is a good idea. I work in an environment where I have to keep track of the logins for about ten different systems, all with different password requirements and which have passwords that expire at 30 or 60 days. Because I can't possibly remember these passwords, I have had to rely on storing those passwords in my bookmarks (I do use 1Password now, but that's not the point).

So my question to all of you password aging idiots is: Is it better to have a password that I can remember that never expires, or a password that expires and cannot be reused forcing me to store my passwords in a format (plain-text) that can easily be found?

Yeah, I thought you'd agree with me.

Now then, back on-topic

Depends on other password requirements. The reason many organizations have password aging is because people do dumb things with their passwords & making them change them every so often helps minimize any damage from a password being leaked to someone with ill intent.

1. You should definitely have a password that includes 3 if not 4 different character types. If you use more character types then the number of possible combinations increases & this helps make it harder to be cracked.

2. You should use a password that is 8 characters in length or more. Going from 8 to 10 characters gives a password more strength than going from 3 to 4 character types. Length makes a big difference in how difficult a password is to crack.

Another way to protect yourself is to always use a different password for things such as IM, e-mail, etc from what you use for accounts with access to financial data.

By the way, you idiots calling others idiots for requiring passwords be changed every so often are a big reason that identity theft is such a huge problem.

I hope you don't work for a financial institution cause if you do let me know so I can avoid giving them access to any of my personal financial data!
post #29 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Depends on other password requirements. The reason many organizations have password aging is because people do dumb things with their passwords & making them change them every so often helps minimize any damage from a password being leaked to someone with ill intent.

As opposed to making those password requirements so difficult to remember that people write their passwords down in plain text?

Quote:
1. You should definitely have a password that includes 3 if not 4 different character types. If you use more character types then the number of possible combinations increases & this helps make it harder to be cracked.

2. You should use a password that is 8 characters in length or more. Going from 8 to 10 characters gives a password more strength than going from 3 to 4 character types. Length makes a big difference in how difficult a password is to crack.

Completely agree with you there. Many breakins are caused by brute-force hacking using simple dictionary words.

Quote:
Another way to protect yourself is to always use a different password for things such as IM, e-mail, etc from what you use for accounts with access to financial data.

Another good idea. As some systems are easier than others to break into (one of my coworkers here was able to break the admin password on his XP box in under 30 seconds, for example), best to use different passwords on high-security systems.

Quote:
By the way, you idiots calling others idiots for requiring passwords be changed every so often are a big reason that identity theft is such a huge problem.

Afraid I'm going to disagree with you there. Simply common sense would dictate otherwise. But hey, if I'm stupid enough to give my password out to others, then I deserve what I get. But since I'm not stupid enough to give out my password, don't force me to do something stupid (like write my password down in an unsecure location) because of your stupid policies.

Quote:
I hope you don't work for a financial institution cause if you do let me know so I can avoid giving them access to any of my personal financial data!

No, I don't, but I'm sure there are plenty of people working in financial institutions with stupid password requirements who will allow hackers to access your personal financial data.
post #30 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I realise this is completely off-topic, but this point should be well made to all those idiots in IT who think that having password aging is a good idea. I work in an environment where I have to keep track of the logins for about ten different systems, all with different password requirements and which have passwords that expire at 30 or 60 days. Because I can't possibly remember these passwords, I have had to rely on storing those passwords in my bookmarks (I do use 1Password now, but that's not the point).

So my question to all of you password aging idiots is: Is it better to have a password that I can remember that never expires, or a password that expires and cannot be reused forcing me to store my passwords in a format (plain-text) that can easily be found?

Yeah, I thought you'd agree with me.

Now then, back on-topic

Password aging is a tool of the Devil !
post #31 of 57
All this password nonsense would be easily solved by ubiquitous thumb-scanning. :-)
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post #32 of 57
Note: You = the author who wrote the article.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

While Microsoft makes far more revenue selling a retail box of Windows to an Intel Mac user than it does bundling the software on a new PC (hundreds of dollars retail versus around $30 for an OEM license), the company doesn’t seem too view that potential Mac market very seriously.

Prior to the move to Intel, Microsoft sold Virtual PC to Mac users as a way to enhance its Office suite. However, ever since Intel Macs gained the ability to run Windows at full, native speed, the company has spared little effort promoting it to Mac buyers, who as a demographic buy more software at retail prices.

You came to the above conclusion that MS doesn't care about potential Mac market because they failed to enhance Virtual PC for Mac? They don't need to considering that there's VMWare Fusion, Parallel, VirtualBox, and BootCamp. Either way, it's a rather large assumption to make from a single data point.

Quote:
Using Firefox, we ran into show stopper security warnings because Microsoft’s security certificate doesn’t match its domain name. To get past this, you have to confirm a security exception, a step which Firefox insists “legitimate banks, stores, and other public sites” will not ask you to do (below).

Safari presents a slightly simpler warning that allows you to continue with a single click rather than stepping though the more elaborate exception process within Firefox.

I didn't get this with Chrome, Safari, Firefox, or Internet Explorer. This is not to say that you didn't. Does anyone else notice a security certificate problem?

Quote:
Once past all this mess, Microsoft insists that you download and install its Silverlight 2 web plugin (a step that requires a browser restart) in order to pop up a simple download window to begin copying over the Windows 7 disc image (below).

If you try to download the beta with Internet Explorer, then you'll get the bad old ActiveX or Java-based download manager. If you use Firefox, like you did, then you get a Java applet download manager (and java applet doesn't require a browser restart). I don't think what you installed was Silverlight 2, but I suppose it could...

Quote:
Along with the file download, Microsoft creates a 25-character string for you to type in during the installation, apparently so you don’t pirate the free beta. Given that installing an operating system typically precludes being able to copy and paste the license key, this “print out the key and type in manually” step seems egregious, particularly for Mac users accustomed to not needing any license key to install Mac OS X.

I suppose it's better than not being able to public test Snow Leopard at all. I believe the key along with activation tells Microsoft the total number of unique installations. For beta testing, you probably want to know how many people downloaded, but also have many installed and currently using it.

Quote:
Installing the beta in a virtual environment is identical to setting up Windows Vista, as the new operating system is essentially Vista with some general (largely user interface) enhancements. On an architectural level, they are nearly identical.

You've already mentioned this in the previous 3 installations. I suppose it doesn't hurt to continue mentioning this and believing that it's true.

Quote:
After keying in that long license number, there isn’t much to set up during the install process, apart from optionally setting up HomeGroup, Microsoft’s new technology for sharing files and devices with nearly the simplicity of a Mac.

You can't really see how "simplicity" the feature is without having at least two Windows 7 PC. Have you used this feature before actually making the comparison? This statement make no attempt at explaining why something isn't or is simple. It seems nothing more than a blank statement without any rationale or reason. Please, explain why it's not as simple in the next installation (considering that it'll be a native install).

Quote:
Be sure to write down the insane password it generates for you (below), as a weak password would be far worse than a strong password jotted down on a sticky note next to your PC.

Microsoft didn't auto generated password haphazardly. They've found that people often use a few common passwords for most private stuffs including emails, bank accounts, credit card accounts, and so on. Why is this important? Well, this password HAS to be shared with other members who want to join the HomeGroup. This might be a potential security and privacy problem. The person who created the HomeGroup can view or change it later from Control Panel > HomeGroup. Essentially, you don't have to write it down immediately if you choose to not to. More reading here: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/200...windows-7.aspx
post #33 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

BTW, one really important point the article should have mentioned is that the public beta for Windows 7 is going to close any day. Microsoft has opened it up to the first 2.5 million downloads (which may sound like a lot, but remember how many PC users are out there).

When I downloaded it yesterday, the beta site specifically mentioned that people should download it as soon as possible because they would be closing the beta very shortly.

They went through the 2.5 million in a few hours the first day, they have enough testers at this point so that is why tehy're closing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djames42 View Post

I realise this is completely off-topic, but this point should be well made to all those idiots in IT who think that having password aging is a good idea. I work in an environment where I have to keep track of the logins for about ten different systems, all with different password requirements and which have passwords that expire at 30 or 60 days. Because I can't possibly remember these passwords, I have had to rely on storing those passwords in my bookmarks (I do use 1Password now, but that's not the point).

So my question to all of you password aging idiots is: Is it better to have a password that I can remember that never expires, or a password that expires and cannot be reused forcing me to store my passwords in a format (plain-text) that can easily be found?

Yeah, I thought you'd agree with me.

Now then, back on-topic

I agree completely. My problem is getting people to use a somewhat secure password (pass, password, or your name is useless) without knowing how important it is. I think the point behind the homegroup password is to secure them from from open wireless access points. If you have it written down in a drawer somewhere it isn't secure, but it is better than having a completely open network with all your documents open to everyone.

Its not perfect, but I think its a better system then either has had in the past.
post #34 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

Note: You = the author who wrote the article.



You came to the above conclusion that MS doesn't care about potential Mac market because they failed to enhance Virtual PC for Mac? They don't need to considering that there's VMWare Fusion, Parallel, VirtualBox, and BootCamp. Either way, it's a rather large assumption to make from a single data point.



I didn't get this with Chrome, Safari, Firefox, or Internet Explorer. This is not to say that you didn't. Does anyone else notice a security certificate problem?



If you try to download the beta with Internet Explorer, then you'll get the bad old ActiveX or Java-based download manager. If you use Firefox, like you did, then you get a Java applet download manager (and java applet doesn't require a browser restart). I don't think what you installed was Silverlight 2, but I suppose it could...



I suppose it's better than not being able to public test Snow Leopard at all. I believe the key along with activation tells Microsoft the total number of unique installations. For beta testing, you probably want to know how many people downloaded, but also have many installed and currently using it.



You've already mentioned this in the previous 3 installations. I suppose it doesn't hurt to continue mentioning this and believing that it's true.



You can't really see how "simplicity" the feature is without having at least two Windows 7 PC. Have you used this feature before actually making the comparison? This statement make no attempt at explaining why something isn't or is simple. It seems nothing more than a blank statement without any rationale or reason. Please, explain why it's not as simple in the next installation (considering that it'll be a native install).



Microsoft didn't auto generated password haphazardly. They've found that people often use a few common passwords for most private stuffs including emails, bank accounts, credit card accounts, and so on. Why is this important? Well, this password HAS to be shared with other members who want to join the HomeGroup. This might be a potential security and privacy problem. The person who created the HomeGroup can view or change it later from Control Panel > HomeGroup. Essentially, you don't have to write it down immediately if you choose to not to. More reading here: http://blogs.msdn.com/e7/archive/200...windows-7.aspx

Yeahthe whole post is a sad attempt to make windows 7 look bad. Just every chance the writer got to make it look worse and worse. There are hundreds of reviews saying it's an easier experience than any previous version of windows. Why even post how to install if you hate windows so much?
post #35 of 57
Microsoft looks to come back strong with Windows 7. Thanks to Vista and Steve Jobs making some kick ass moves, the Mac is going into the recession as strong as it could ever have. Next 5 years will be somewhat tough, PC vs Mac will be back in full force. Though the Mac has got a good following and momentum... It will be interesting. I will probably be using both Mac and PC over the next few years. But probably just running BootCamp for gaming on a new MacBook/iMac I am saving up for.
post #36 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

XP is still dominant in the corporate space. For the life of me I can't come up with a reason to upgrade my VM to Vista, much less be an early adopter of W7.

It's supposed to be faster and lighter, but I doubt it. To the bloated .Net frameworks they now appear to have added Silverlight as another needless requirement. The basic Microsoft philosophy of adding interlocking layers of junk seems unchanged. I support my wife's Vista laptop, and that's enough of a headache as it is.

I think we can all relate to you with getting headaches from vista!
post #37 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by groverat View Post

All this password nonsense would be easily solved by ubiquitous thumb-scanning. :-)

So to invite someone to your HomeGroup you would send him your thumb instead of the HomeGroup password???
post #38 of 57
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Microsoft looks to come back strong with Windows 7. Thanks to Vista and Steve Jobs making some kick ass moves, the Mac is going into the recession as strong as it could ever have. Next 5 years will be somewhat tough, PC vs Mac will be back in full force. Though the Mac has got a good following and momentum... It will be interesting. I will probably be using both Mac and PC over the next few years. But probably just running BootCamp for gaming on a new MacBook/iMac I am saving up for.

Windows 7 should not be overestimated. XP switchers have to get used to it like when switching to Vista. The biggest chance for Windows 7 could be the cheap but nice looking multitouch netbooks that we are going to see.

I really doubt that Apple is interested in really increasing the Mac market share. They are doing good and at some point they can't get a larger market share because the Mac product line will always be limited compared to all other PC makers. For instance people who want a blue notebook or a Tablet PC can't switch.

I think Apple will concentrate more on the iPhone/AppStore/mobile games business. Otherwise they definitely have to update the Mac mini, introduce a netbook and offering more customized hardware (non-glossy displays???) like different colored aluminum chassis.
post #39 of 57
Quote:
So to invite someone to your HomeGroup you would send him your thumb instead of the HomeGroup password?

No, man, you use a piece of tape like in the Bourne Identity.
proud resident of a failed state
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proud resident of a failed state
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post #40 of 57
Up and running the 64 bit version fine on my Mac Pro using Paralles v4. I didn't need to waste time burning and DVD, I just used the disk image that downloads. I was never asked for any serial number or pass key.

So far Safari, iTunes and Quicktime all work well. I was asked to switch to iTunes 64 bit version my Apple's download after i started the standard version. I have Parallels set to allocate all 8 Cores, 2 GIGs of RAM and 256MB VRAM.
Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
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Enjoying the new Mac Pro ... it's smokin'
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini.
Reply
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