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Apple warns of reduced iMac availability in near term - Page 4

post #121 of 154
Wall mountable (with ports on the side instead) and touchscreen!
post #122 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnmcboston View Post

But I'd rather get snow leopard WITH a new computer - not have to buy and install an OS 2-3 months after a new computer purchase...

The problem is that Apple would rather sell a bunch of 10.5 iMacs to eager iMac buyers and have them upgrade later at $129/ea. Business is business.

Personally, I'll tough it out with what I have (15" iMac 400MHz Bondi Blue model and 12" iBook 1.0GHz G4) until 10.6 ships WITH the new iMac.

To each his own.
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post #123 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

You know the iMac in its current form factor is a no go.

I should be able to access the iMacs RAM and drive storage in a matter of
minutes. I care not that it's unbelievably thin when I can't do basic upgrades
myself.

The iMac is a classy system but dammit if you're gonna crame the whole widget
down my gullet give me sensible design.

I have a feeling they'll follow in the steps of the portable line and make drives more accessible. They are trying to make this thing into a mainstream computer, right?
Crentist?! That sounds an awful lot like *dentist.*
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post #124 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

It's not that simple their are other factors to be considered.

Apple would have to license and implement the various layers of Blu-ray DRM. I doubt Apple is interested in more DRM in OS X.

Which they have started implementing

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Their are no BD drives that fit into the MacBooks and iMac.

At the moment, I wasn't talking about them implementing it now, I was responding to someone that couldn't understand why you would want it implemented

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

BD storage is more expensive per GB than HD storage.

How does that hard drive go, thrown in an envelope and popped in the post then?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I cannot see Apple TV and iTunes movies being more expensive than a BD player and BD discs.

I can. One example, Wanted, in the NZ iTunes store, NZ$24.99 1.23GB with Dolby Digital . On Blu-ray NZ$38.99 23GB with DTS-HDMA. Considering the difference in quality, the Blu-ray is a lot more expensive (well actually the iTunes version is more expensive than a DVD).

Plus the Apple TV is NZ$498, Blu-Ray players are cheaper than that,
post #125 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Which they have started implementing

How has Apple started Blu-ray DRM.

Quote:
At the moment, I wasn't talking about them implementing it now, I was responding to someone that couldn't understand why you would want it implemented

Apple doesn't have to implement Blu-ray and they may never do it.

Quote:
How does that hard drive go, thrown in an envelope and popped in the post then?

Transporting data doesn't have much to do with the cost of storing it. But their are different ways to transport data. You don't necessarily need Blu-ray for that either.

Quote:
I can. One example, Wanted, in the NZ iTunes store, NZ$24.99 1.23GB with Dolby Digital . On Blu-ray NZ$38.99 23GB with DTS-HDMA. Considering the difference in quality, the Blu-ray is a lot more expensive (well actually the iTunes version is more expensive than a DVD).

Plus the Apple TV is NZ$498, Blu-Ray players are cheaper than that,

Well you have to choose what you feel works best for you. Apple is choosing digital downloads as its media business model. Blu-ray just does not fit into that.
post #126 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phong View Post

FIrst, if you can point me to whatever EyeTV Hybrid that has component ports, please do so. I have found find it quite difficult, since it apparently does not exist.

Maybe your inability to comprehend why anyone would want HDMI or component inputs is because you're not very young. Maybe paying between several hundred and sever thousand dollars for a separate screen makes sense in the world you came from. It does not make much sense in 2009, where every single new television, every single one, has been made to function as a computer monitor. That's because they are basically computer monitors that have been made to double as a television. There is no difference. They are the same.

You say computers sit on a desk and televisions in a living room. My desk happens to be in my living room -- and in my bedroom, and quite close to my kitchen. I'm young and live in a studio apt. I do not see the sense in wasting my hard-earned money on redundant displays. Even if my money was not hard-earned, I would not want to waste the space. The iMac is an inferior design at any price.

As for HDMI, of course it will not be around forever, but it has not reached its zenith. Apple seems fine paying for the license for AppleTV, which relies on it, and that's not going to change anytime soon. The real Apple TV is the Mac Mini, though, which is no coincidence, as computer monitors and television are the same.

Well unless you consider 26 old, then I guess I'm old. Age really has nothing to do with whether or not you understand technology. If thats the case you probably wouldn't care to be posting here unless you had an issue.

Like I said before, the iMac is a COMPUTER NOT A TELEVISION! Its not designed to be a TV, and never will be. Stop trying to make it to be something its not and then saying its not a good device just because it doesn't meet your needs. Go buy something that does!

Others beat me to the punch on HDMI and TV screens vs computer screens. So I'll just let you sit on your own stupidity there...

Of course Apple supports HDMI on the AppleTV. Its what televisions are using currently. Would be stupid to not include it. Also realize that box is made specifically for audio and video out. Its not a full blown computer. One last this is realize Apple pretty much breaks even on every AppleTV sale.

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post #127 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

How has Apple started Blu-ray DRM.

I think he's confusing HD movies from iTunes with Bluray. They aren't quite the same....

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post #128 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by JBanana View Post

I could be wrong, but didn't the G5 iMac from 2004 have a user replaceable HDD, CD drive and Display? I don't know what changed with the aluminum/glass one...

The original iMac G5 had a removal back. This was nice, but it meant Apple had to design the insides so all the wires were either very short, or were just simple plugs. Seemed to me that Apple was also worried about people getting inside and accessing everything (warranty issues). So after the ambient light sensor iMac G5 the back went back to non-removal.

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post #129 of 154
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post #130 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I think he's confusing HD movies from iTunes with Bluray. They aren't quite the same....

No I haven't, I understand the difference, and the fact that Blu-ray is far superior to HD iTunes downloads.

I was referring to the fact that Apple has implemented HDCP in the new MacBooks.
post #131 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

How has Apple started Blu-ray DRM.

HDCP is required for Blu-ray over digitial connections

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Apple doesn't have to implement Blu-ray and they may never do it.

True, and I don't have to give Apple money for Digital HD downloads, and I may never do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Transporting data doesn't have much to do with the cost of storing it. But their are different ways to transport data. You don't necessarily need Blu-ray for that either.

Depending on where you live in the world, moving large amounts of data is not that easy to do unless you copy it to a hard drive or optical disc

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Well you have to choose what you feel works best for you. Apple is choosing digital downloads as its media business model. Blu-ray just does not fit into that.

Their business model may end up winning, but it will be a long time in the future (years and years away), and they still have to sort out an industry standard for it yet (and depressly need to increase the quality of it).
post #132 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by elroth View Post

Funny - I want none of these things.

Me too, blu-ray? more Sony junk...
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post #133 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

HDCP is required for Blu-ray over digitial connections

Their isn't one version of HDCP, just like their isn't one version of DRM. Their are different flavors of them. Apple implements its own HDCP in Fairplay that has nothing to do with Blu-ray.



Quote:
True, and I don't have to give Apple money for Digital HD downloads, and I may never do that.

You are right that is completely your choice.



Quote:
Depending on where you live in the world, moving large amounts of data is not that easy to do unless you copy it to a hard drive or optical disc.

You can set up some limited and hypothetical situation where optical media storage is the best solution. That does not change the fact that hard drive storage is cheaper by the GB than Blu-ray.


Quote:
Their business model may end up winning, but it will be a long time in the future (years and years away), and they still have to sort out an industry standard for it yet (and depressly need to increase the quality of it).

I'm not saying that digital downloads will destroy optical media. Many people seem to think for one to win the other has to be destroyed. I think they will both coexist for a long time.

I agree with you that digital downloads need an interoperable standard that works in any media player and any platform.
post #134 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by imacmadman22 View Post

Me too, blu-ray? more Sony junk...

Well except it isn't a Sony product
post #135 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Their isn't one version of HDCP, just like their isn't one version of DRM. Their are different flavors of them. Apple implements its own HDCP in Fairplay that has nothing to do with Blu-ray.

You might want to read up some more about HDCP.
post #136 of 154
Yes their is only one standard of HDCP. The over all point is that is not evidence that Apple will support Blu-ray.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You might want to read up some more about HDCP.
post #137 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by crentist View Post

The problem is that Apple would rather sell a bunch of 10.5 iMacs to eager iMac buyers and have them upgrade later at $129/ea. Business is business.

I don't believe Apple explicitly aims at selling new hardware to get an update later. There are two reasons:
  • If they ship hardware with Snow Leopard pre-installed, they will save on supporting this gardware for 10.5. From marketing point of view, new hardware with new OS may look as a better package and could bring more profit at the end of the day
  • New OS versions boosts the financial results for the quater a little bit, but has small overall impact on the FY results.

Get it once and for all: Apple is not Microsoft. Apple's main source of revenue is not selling the OS.

Apple will ship the hardware when it is ready, and Snow Leopard when it is ready. Delaying one because of the other for more than 3-4 weeks could do more damage than profit.

Also get it: Snow Leopard is months away.
post #138 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You might want to read up some more about HDCP.

Apple still has a variant implementation, in that they encode video with HDCP and then break it up into packets to send over a serial cable. HDMI is an old-fashioned parallel cable.

Apparently this distinction matters to Big Content, because they don't want any additional meddling with their protection schemes and they don't trust any solutions other than their own, which is HDCP over HDMI, directly from the drive to the TV.

This is what Jobs meant when he described Blu-Ray as (from memory) a great big ball of hurt. Big Content want the entire machine engineered around DRM so that there is no possible way that their movies will be used in any other way than if you'd put the disc in a dumb component player, but it's nearly impossible to build a machine with the power or the flexibility to create content if you do.
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post #139 of 154
I recently bought a PS3 and it is AWESOME. It plays avchd, mp4 video, aac, avi, wifi file server (with free 3rd party software) and the list goes on. It even plays .mts video files straight out of my avchd camcorder. All I had to do was format a usb key with the same file structure as the PS3 (folders called VIDEO, GAMES , etc) .
I've been jumping through hoops trying to edit AVCHD in FCE, by the way, let alone not being able to play these files directly on a Mac.
Oh yeah, the PS3 has blu-ray and a sweet, growing game library.
Apple TV update better be something sweet.
post #140 of 154
honestly im not a huge fan of having an expensive Blu-Ray drive on my PC/Mac, however to say that its not a huge step forward is retarded.

sure i like to play games, so yes i own a PS3. however i also have an Xbox 360, as the PS3 is a shitty console, do you know what it is good at? a Blu-Ray player, is it worth having it just for that one purpose? yes. blu-ray is THAT good.

if i was still a college student, i'd have a computer, and play computer games, and play blu-ray discs on an HD monitor, you'd get all the HD experience on one "cheap" set up.

to not offer that at all is a pretty big assumption to what your customer desires. personally i would NOT go blu with my new iMac, but the option should be there, some would find it useful and would probably find it worth an extra $200 for the drive.
post #141 of 154
Ok, so this might not be the place to post this, but since the topic has turned to BluRay implementation on an iMac, I figured what the hell...

I was on WeLoveMacs, and saw they had a BluRay optical drive for Intel based iMacs. Has anyone tried one of these, or is the fact that they don't have a price or option to order (in addition to not responding to my email inquiries) proof that this just doesn't exist/work yet?*

I, for one, would love to have BluRay on my machine. It's the new medium, and with movies, I prefer to have a collection on my shelf rather than just a list on my iTunes. And, since my movie collection is going from a DVD/BD mix to almost exclusively BluRay, being able to watch movies and series on my computer would make things much easier (if just for compatibility, not quality).

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Well except it isn't a Sony product

I think all BluRay is a product of Sony. They might not make the player, but they own the rights to the technology, so their getting paid one way or another.


*FastMac.com has the same device for $999.95. I'd still like to know if anyone's tried it and if it works.
post #142 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by 48v View Post

.

I think all BluRay is a product of Sony. They might not make the player, but they own the rights to the technology, so their getting paid one way or another.
.


I think you need to do some more researching and reading before you make that statement.

Who owns the Blu-ray technology
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post #143 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy View Post

I think you need to do some more researching and reading before you make that statement.

Who owns the Blu-ray technology

For all intents and purposes, I think saying that BR is a Sony tech is accurate. Calling it a product of the BRD Association and/or listing every company that has a piece of it is just too convoluted. Sony initiated it and the biggest benefactor of BR. The same goes for other physical media types and even FireWire, which "was initiated by Apple and developed by the IEEE P1394 Working Group, largely driven by contributions from Apple, although major contributions were also made by engineers from Texas Instruments, Sony, Digital Equipment Corporation, IBM, and INMOS/SGS Thomson (now STMicroelectronics)", according to Wikipedia.
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post #144 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For all intents and purposes, I think saying that BR is a Sony tech is accurate. Calling it a product of the BRD Association and/or listing every company that has a piece of it is just too convoluted. Sony initiated it and the biggest benefactor of BR. The same goes for other physical media types and even FireWire, which "was initiated by Apple and developed by the IEEE P1394 Working Group, largely driven by contributions from Apple, although major contributions were also made by engineers from Texas Instruments, Sony, Digital Equipment Corporation, IBM, and INMOS/SGS Thomson (now STMicroelectronics)", according to Wikipedia.

So if this is the case, and Sony is the major beneficiary, then how much, per Mac computer, do you think Apple would have to pay Sony if Apple included Blu-ray?
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post #145 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Royboy View Post

So if this is the case, and Sony is the major beneficiary, then how much, per Mac computer, do you think Apple would have to pay Sony if Apple included Blu-ray?

The cost of item includes the licensing fees, which is then distributed back to the parties. I have no idea what percentage Sony gets, but Apple would not be paying Sony directly unless they bought Sony drives.

However, with Apple's use of slim 9.5mm, slot-loading drives and push to physically free digital media the idea that Apple will offer BRD in any of their products is unlikely. BR would need to get a much firmer hold for that happen and we'd most likely see it in, regarding HW, in the Mac Pro first which can take the considerably cheaper and faster fullsize, tray-loading drives. We'd also have to see some evidence of Apple supporting it in software.


edit: I found some links that state a $30 per drive fee. The percentage that Sony receives is still unknown.
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post #146 of 154
Anywho, it's been three weeks since the original story re Apple warning of constrained iMac supplies.

Anyone know what the general lead time is before new models are released, once Apple starts talking like that? Anybody have an experience of finding an iMac out of stock? Does anyone even buy iMacs, at this point?

I wouldn't think Apple would want to go more than a month or so without being able to replenish the channel inventory, but who knows? Maybe iMac sales are slow enough to keep the shelves stocked for months on end while they dick around with whatever it is they're doing.
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post #147 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Anywho, it's been three weeks since the original story re Apple warning of constrained iMac supplies.

Anyone know what the general lead time is before new models are released, once Apple starts talking like that? Anybody have an experience of finding an iMac out of stock? Does anyone even buy iMacs, at this point?

I wouldn't think Apple would want to go more than a month or so without being able to replenish the channel inventory, but who knows? Maybe iMac sales are slow enough to keep the shelves stocked for months on end while they dick around with whatever it is they're doing.

Well with the 20" display being discontinued last week, this seems to point to a mini refresh this Tuesday (the 24th) and I would assume that they would want to update the iMac at the same time. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this Tuesday. I need a new system, be it a mini, iMac, or something else entirely.
post #148 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Anywho, it's been three weeks since the original story re Apple warning of constrained iMac supplies.

Anyone know what the general lead time is before new models are released, once Apple starts talking like that? Anybody have an experience of finding an iMac out of stock? Does anyone even buy iMacs, at this point?

I wouldn't think Apple would want to go more than a month or so without being able to replenish the channel inventory, but who knows?

As I mentioned a bit earlier, the last time Apple sent out an advisory like this was the great iMac drought of Summer 2004.
It lasted about three months.

But there was a difference. Apple made a public statement in 2004. As opposed to this time, where the warning's only gone out to the channel - not the general public.
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post #149 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Well with the 20" display being discontinued last week, this seems to point to a mini refresh this Tuesday (the 24th) and I would assume that they would want to update the iMac at the same time. So I'm keeping my fingers crossed for this Tuesday. I need a new system, be it a mini, iMac, or something else entirely.

Agreed! If you asked me yesterday, I would have said no. That's because the 17" MacBook Pro "anti glare" models hadn't shipped yet. Apple started shipping them out of the factory this morning. This is good news for new hardware. Apple doesn't announce any new hardware until previously announced hardware is shipping (Of course there are a few exceptions to this rule).
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post #150 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For all intents and purposes, I think saying that BR is a Sony tech is accurate. Calling it a product of the BRD Association and/or listing every company that has a piece of it is just too convoluted. Sony initiated it and the biggest benefactor of BR. The same goes for other physical media types and even FireWire, which "was initiated by Apple and developed by the IEEE P1394 Working Group, largely driven by contributions from Apple, although major contributions were also made by engineers from Texas Instruments, Sony, Digital Equipment Corporation, IBM, and INMOS/SGS Thomson (now STMicroelectronics)", according to Wikipedia.

Panasonic is the major benefactor of Blu-ray, not Sony
post #151 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Panasonic is the major benefactor of Blu-ray, not Sony

Why don't you prove it instead of posting false statements that are backed up by nothing.
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post #152 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Why don't you prove it instead of posting false statements that are backed up by nothing.

You are some piece of work, it is ok for you to post false information without backing things up, but no one else is able to?

Why don't you do search yourself and find out for yourself that you are wrong.

Go to places like http://www.blu-ray.com and look, there are plenty of people (knowledge people) that have listed that info there (here is one http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=4101. You can find the rest yourself.
post #153 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

You are some piece of work, it is ok for you to post false information without backing things up, but no one else is able to?

Why don't you do search yourself and find out for yourself that you are wrong.

Go to places like http://www.blu-ray.com and look, there are plenty of people (knowledge people) that have listed that info there (here is one http://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.ph...postcount=4101. You can find the rest yourself.

Speaking of a piece of work... Your first link is to the main page of a website. It states nothing about your attempts that Sony not being a major benefactor in BR. Your second link is to a forum post that clearly states in a large font that Sony owns the physical media of BR. You are apparently focusing on the part where a forum poster states that Panasonic holds more patents but you have failed to post proof that Sony does not have a major stake in BR or realize that holding a patent does not mean you hold ownership, rights or have a way to make money from an established item.

If you still still think Sony has little to nothing to do with BR you are living in your dream world yet again.
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post #154 of 154
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Speaking of a piece of work... Your first link is to the main page of a website. It states nothing about your attempts that Sony not being a major benefactor in BR. Your second link is to a forum post that clearly states in a large font that Sony owns the physical media of BR. You are apparently focusing on the part where a forum poster states that Panasonic holds more patents but you have failed to post proof that Sony does not have a major stake in BR or realize that holding a patent does not mean you hold ownership, rights or have a way to make money from an established item.

If you still still think Sony has little to nothing to do with BR you are living in your dream world yet again.

No, my second link was a posting from a Sony employee saying that Pioneer owns more of the physical layer that Sony. Try reading for once.

I haven't said that Sony has a large interest in Blu-Ray, I am saying you are being very simple for saying that the Blu-Ray is Sony only, or the majority is only Sony. There are a lot of companies that have an interest in Blu-Ray, I can't tell you who they are, I don't know if the patent pool has been completed yet.
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