Originally Posted by @_@ Artman
I don't know how you can go on about this when for a period of time spanning 20 years with Limbaugh to the last 8 or more with Coulter, Hannity, Beck and others of their ilk have been doing this and have CONTINUED
to do this and WILL
keep doing this caricaturization of the left.
But you see, I have turned off the teevee and have reminded myself that most of what is presented as news on television and even on the web is pure shit
. The HuffPost especially, since they have become more of a celebrity web site than a news site. If you notice, whenever I do link an article there, it's from a reliable writer and linked to the print version. Their site design has become abysmal and is too distracting. Plus, with there rise in popularity, they have started to get what all web sites get, the idiots who post comments worthy of absolutely nothing. Why read them?
Eventually, I will have to go elsewhere, which is exactly what you should do trumptman
I think it is pretty clear I have gone somewhere for the majority of my news. Unlike others on here though Artman, I'll applaud your candor and note, unlike them, that it seeking more signal and less noise makes you more informed and not less. Others have readed the opposite conclusions when actions such as those you state are taken and it is a strange conclusion.
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah
Yes, we have satire in the United Kingdom, too. I'm familiar with it. They had satire in ancient Rome, in Renaissance Italy, in Elizabethan England and we've had it on TV for decades. But thanks for the examples nevertheless.Here in the UK we have politicians whose behaviour is worthy of being mocked, as do other nations. They are mocked, on television, and sometimes on the radio, too.
Your leaders, Nick, act in ways that lend themselves to satire and instead of asking for better leaders you're complaining that people are mocking them.
They're going to carry on mocking Sarah Palin, Nick, because she's a twat.
I've not complained about anyone whose behavior is worthy of being mocked having that behavior mocked. Quite the opposite in fact, I've complained that when everything is a mockery then it isn't comedy anymore but sad and just mean. The second and most important point though is when people are begging for someone to be mocked not because of their behavior, but so that when they do engage in the public arena of ideas the caricature will be what has taken hold instead of what is actually presented.
The clip I linked to on SNL, it is mocking events that NEVER HAPPENED. Do you get that? There is nothing they are exaggerating.
As a quick reverse example, Clinton got caught in the campaign talking about how she flew into Bosnia. She talked about coming in under sniper fire and it turns out there was nothing of the sort and it was found in archival footage. She was mocked for it and that was deserved.
Now imagine instead she didn't make the claim about coming in under sniper fire but you just wanted to discredit her as a candidate. So you have a Hillary caricature make the claims and then mock how they are different from reality.
That shouldn't be funny because it is jut a lie. It would be attempting to portray someone as a liar when they didn't lie. It would be a claimed exaggeration of an event that had no basis in reality.
Don't you think that would be damaging to public discourse? As you note, you mock their behaviors, when they don't have behavior though and you just make it up and mock it, that isn't comedy, that is a lie and an attack.
Originally Posted by Bergermeister
The Daily Show is certainly not The Evening News... but what John does manage to do is to actually show the idiocy and hypocrisy of certain people out there who are influencing matters.
I recall referencing a Daily Show clip and its being dismissed simply because it came from TDS. The clip, actually, had no real input from John, the host, but rather showed the idiots in all their glory, in their own words, saying completely opposite things that simply could not both be true but were presented as such at the time so that the official opinion™ could be presented.
TDS does their homework and recalls the older clips that clash with the new and present them; most of the people watching the single clips never connect the dots.
Palin, Hannity, Rove, O'Reilly, and many others have had the honor of having their own words prove beyond a doubt that they are complete and utter idiots.
Hats off to TDS because they have a team that will sit down and review old tapes to match them with the new.
Case in point:http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...in-gender-card
I've never said the Daily Show never hits the mark. I've even put up clips from it I thought others would enjoy. My beef is biggest with the Colbert Report but the real issue with both of them though is that they are one note songs and eventually that is damaging. Stewart himself specifically asked that when a show becomes damaging that it stop. So that is is why I call him out on that. I used Carlin as a good example of something gone too far. Saying all families have quirks and isn't it funny to laugh at the commonality of those quirks is good fun. To say fuck all families and if they all died and disappeared tomorrow nothing would be worse off isn't comedy, it is morose.
I forget if I posted the clip or not but the best recent example was Stewart was making fun of someone in the Senate trying to explain the concept of a trillion dollars and how huge that happens to be. The person was doing so to try to bring some levity to the proceedings. Stewart just mocked him for trying to explain what a trillion happens to be. The person may have had a view attached to that explanation but that wasn't shown. It wasn't about how the money was spent, just about the fact that we were spending it and so it was mocked.
It wasn't funny. It was desperate. They needed something to fill the time that day so they just did damage to the process by making fun of someone trying to bring about understanding. That sucks and hurts us as a country and community. It is exactly what he told Crossfire to stop doing.
When people would rather snicker that a trillion dollars is a blanket that can cover Jupiter because they don't want to think about how it should be spent, that is damaging. It should stop. Lastly Stewart is straddling some lines here that didn't start quite that way. His show originally looked like a talk show making fun of the news. Over the years the set has keep changing and it now appears more and more like an actual news show yet he uses the defense that he isn't a journalist and so he can't be viewed the same way. When you take on the airs, you take on the criticism and Stewart, in my opinion has lost his shield. Carlin may be philosophizing with a microphone but you aren't going to mistake him for something he isn't.