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Apple sued four times in two weeks over iPhone 3G speeds

post #1 of 94
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Apple and AT&T are facing two more cookie-cutter lawsuits over what customers claim is poor iPhone 3G network performance and hairline cracks in the casing.

The latest pair of suits, identical in almost every way save for the names of plaintiffs, join two from last week.

Florida residents Onel Gonzalez and Ron J. Brayteson filed a 24-page complaint in the Southern District of Florida on behalf of themselves and all members of the class in their state, demanding statutory, compensatory, and punitive damages plus interest. They also seek a ruling deeming Apple and AT&T's practices ruled unlawful, an injunction preventing them from "continuing to disseminate false and misleading advertising," and pay restitution for any ill-gotten gains.

Meanwhile, New Jersey resident Timothy Ritchie filed a 23-page complaint in the District of New Jersey for himself and all similarly situated members of his state, making the same demands as Gonzalez and Brayteson. Ritchie claims to have purchased his iPhone 3G in September 2008, while Gonzalez bought one in June 2008, and Brayteson in August.

Both suits use many of the same allegations made in the class-action lawsuit filed by four Texans last week, right down to the same phrasing. They, too, cite the conclusions of Swedish engineering weekly Ny Teknik that some phones aren't sensitive enough to 3G signals and boost their own signal to compensate, creating the network conflict.

Successive and independent evaluations contradict this theory, however, concluding that the iPhone 3G does not suffer from hardware issues but rather congested and inadequate wireless networks.

The filings spend several pages reprinting comments from blog posts and messageboards, including one customer who posted on Wired, "I have a brand new [iPhone 3G], and my home is inside an AT&T 3G coverage map (suburban area) and I NEVER get 3G reception. The iPhone flickers "3G" for a second or two and then it's all Edge all the way."

The latest complaints also allege hairline cracks in the iPhone's casing around the camera, near the volume rocker, and in other areas. Ritchie, Gonzalez and Brayteson all accuse Apple and AT&T of knowingly marketing the inherently flawed iPhone 3G devices without disclosing the 3G speed problems and hairline cracks that form.

The two sets of plaintiffs also posture their claims by referencing a August 2008 ruling in the United Kingdom that required Apple to stop advertising the iPhone's ability to access "all parts of the internet" as proof of the 3G woes. The UK regulator did not take 3G speeds into account, but rather the lack of Java and Flash support.

However, a second iPhone 3G ad was indeed banned late last year by the agency on grounds that it "it exaggerated the speed of the iPhone 3G."
post #2 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple and AT&T are facing two more cookie-cutter lawsuits over what customers claim is poor iPhone 3G network performance and hairline cracks in the casing.

The latest pair of suits, identical in almost every way save for the names of plaintiffs, join two from last week.

One big difference of these suits vs one we argued about last week is the named defendants. One suit last week was against Apple and, amazingly, not AT&T. The slow real-world experience that some of us get is most likely AT&T's fault.

I'm wondering aloud if one of these suits finds AT&T liable (but not Apple), if Apple can break its exclusive deal with AT&T and sell iPhones via any carrier. That'll get more iPhones out there (except, of course, for the first version with cut-and-paste! )
post #3 of 94
The one thing I really hate about the iPhone is lack of carrier options. I would love to see how many people would get it if it was offered on Verizon, Sprint and T-Mobile. I don't mean to sound like an ATT hater, but I do live in an area that they don't provide coverage for. I have survived with my iPhone on the roaming (free on ATT), but the coverage is less than ideal.
post #4 of 94
I have had my iPhone 3G since it's release and sure it's had it's problems but the majority of those have been fixed, perhaps AT&T in the states is rubbish, here in the UK whilst at work I am enjoying a constant 3G signal with a tested 1.4mb connection.

I do live in the sticks and don't have it there, but that's what Wifi is for!

I would be worried about visiting America, I might get sued for not trying to sue someone else!
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post #5 of 94
This will work. They'll get millions yeah right.

I haven't been very successful in my suit against Toyota. My Avalon doesn't go anywhere near as fast as they say it can go. I've tried several times to get it to go that fast, and every time I get over 100 MPH, a cop stops me, so I don't know how fast it will really go

And my other lawsuit against my cable company isn't going well either. Seems that when ever I go online my Mac slows down after 6,000 neighbors decide to get online at the same time.

Skip
post #6 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Apple and AT&T are facing two more cookie-cutter lawsuits...

Muricans love to sue, huh?

I have a 3G and it has two hairline cracks, one at the jack-hole and one on the lower corner. I also get my service from fido in Canada, so it's pretty much a lock that the service sucks, the speed sucks, the coverage sucks, and the price is through the roof.

But am I going to sue? No.

You see there is this thing called "life," where not everything is fair and there is not always someone at fault just because you didn't get what you want.

Seriously though, the irony of suing a company for failing in it's responsibilities because you don't yourself want to take any responsibility for anything is priceless. Suck it up Murica!
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post #7 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Muricans love to sue, huh?

I have a 3G and it has two hairline cracks, one at the jack-hole and one on the lower corner. I also get my service from fido in Canada, so it's pretty much a lock that the service sucks, the speed sucks, the coverage sucks, and the price is through the roof.

But am I going to sue? No.

You see there is this thing called "life," where not everything is fair and there is not always someone at fault just because you didn't get what you want.

Seriously though, the irony of suing a company for failing in it's responsibilities because you don't yourself want to take any responsibility for anything is priceless. Suck it up Murica!

I'm glad someone realizes how the world works...or how it should work at least. These are my thoughts exactly!

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post #8 of 94
A load of us got iphones at our office and when we first got them the speeds were ok but not great and over time it just got worse and calls started to not get through. Edge was fine 3G was rubbish.

We would call O2 (in the uk) and they said there is nothing wrong with the coverage.

A few of us noticed that the 3G speed issue was only happening around the office. So we pestered o2 until they sent an engineer out. In the end they 3!

They did some tests and rebooted all the cell towers in the local area. The speeds have been great since then!

So O2's cell towers had a fault that needed it to be rebooted that lasted for a couple of month without them picking up the problem. If you have a problem with speeds, dropped calls in your area and it affects multiple iphones then it's a problem with the carrier and not Apple.

The iphone 3G speeds are fine and when on 3G they are definitely quicker than edge. Which is what apple compared the speeds to in the first place!
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post #9 of 94
This is lawsuit is a complete waste of time and further clogs the court system. The answer is simple- Don't buy the phone, return it! Move on! Is downloading your precious emails that important to your existence? ..you spoiled American twits.
post #10 of 94
When I put my iPhone in the front pocket of my jeans, they sag. Also I have the seemingly contrary problem that it's so thin that sometimes I waste time looking for the phone on my desk before I realize it's in my pocket. This was not disclosed prior to purchase. How do I get Apple to provide everyone free belts for their pants and sharp cleats to poke their leg?
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post #11 of 94
Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.
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post #12 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.

Fine. You should be able to return phone and get a partial refund.
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post #13 of 94
At least Apple's legal team doesn't have to worry about job security
post #14 of 94
No I like my iPhone. I don't like how they lied and lured me in with twice as fast.

All this bad rep for Apple will hopefully teach them not to BS.

I am very glad the EU pulled the ADs that were false.

Wishing other countries did the same - and that goes for any company that tries to push the limits.
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post #15 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

At least Apple's legal team doesn't have to worry about job security

LOL love it
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post #16 of 94
If Apple broke its contract with AT&T today. The iPhone 3G as is today won't work with any other US carrier.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

I'm wondering aloud if one of these suits finds AT&T liable (but not Apple), if Apple can break its exclusive deal with AT&T and sell iPhones via any carrier. That'll get more iPhones out there (except, of course, for the first version with cut-and-paste! )
post #17 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.

What? I think if you really look into it you'll find that Apple get sued way more than they sue anyone else. Get your facts straight.
post #18 of 94
So consumers are just supposed to go about their business and pay no attention to the quality of the products that they buy?

It's called holding the company accountable. Just as if the government decided it was going to take an extra 5% from your pay check just because they feel like it. You would be screaming and yelling about that.

When you don't hold companies accountable for their actions, the consumers are the ones that get screwed. First it's a crack, then down the line it's a screen or a battery.

You don't feel a crack in your phone is important enough to make a big deal out of it. Congratulations, you're an individual. Thousands of other people would prefer that moisture doesn't leak into their phone through cracks.

When Apple sends out compensation checks, you can send yours back.

THAT is life.


Quote:
Originally Posted by macxpress View Post

I'm glad someone realizes how the world works...or how it should work at least. These are my thoughts exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Muricans love to sue, huh?

I have a 3G and it has two hairline cracks, one at the jack-hole and one on the lower corner. I also get my service from fido in Canada, so it's pretty much a lock that the service sucks, the speed sucks, the coverage sucks, and the price is through the roof.

But am I going to sue? No.

You see there is this thing called "life," where not everything is fair and there is not always someone at fault just because you didn't get what you want.

Seriously though, the irony of suing a company for failing in it's responsibilities because you don't yourself want to take any responsibility for anything is priceless. Suck it up Murica!
post #19 of 94
Given a good network connection and speed, the iPhone with 3G has been found to be 3 times faster than the iPhone with EDGE. So Apple is telling the truth that 3G is faster than EDGE.

If you are seeing slower 3G data rates, it has more to do with your network connection or network speed. That has nothing to do with the iPhone itself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

No I like my iPhone. I don't like how they lied and lured me in with twice as fast.

All this bad rep for Apple will hopefully teach them not to BS.

I am very glad the EU pulled the ADs that were false.

Wishing other countries did the same - and that goes for any company that tries to push the limits.
post #20 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.

It's fun to make up stats on the spot!
post #21 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Given a good network connection and speed, the iPhone with 3G has been found to be 3 times faster than the iPhone with EDGE. So Apple is telling the truth that 3G is faster than EDGE.

If you are seeing slower 3G data rates, it has more to do with your network connection or network speed. That has nothing to do with the iPhone itself.

Really? Give me a network that show its 3x faster.


Have you seen those Ads? You can do everything in 30s. LOL

The same Ad was mimicked and it took over 2m 50s to do the same thing.

That is the problem.

Sure Apple can say it does it all... But don't show an Ad with everything it can do it 30s supercharged. If it wants to do an Ad in 30s.... then show what it really can do in that timeframe. Don't try to fit all 10 things in 1 Ad to get customers to buy the phone to only find out it ain't so.
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post #22 of 94
Aren't there disclaimers on the website and in the ads that 2x as fast is only in optimal conditions? As in standing next to an ATT tower to test 3G speeds.

This isn't nutrisystem we are talking about, where people say they lost 100 pounds but at the bottom it says "results not typical", which is a nice way to say we are making it up.

As far as I'm concerned, if it has been tested and got 3x the speed of EDGE, don't sue apple, sue ATT.
post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.

I know for a fact that its AT&T and not Apple because I can be in Gastonia, NC and be surfing on the 3G network at 1.4Mbps for hours on end. Then I can drive 20 minutes to Charlotte, NC and the 3G network drops to below 500Kbps and in some places it even drops you to the EDGE network.

My brother has a Blackberry and he also is dropped to the EDGE network at places in Charlotte as well. So its definitely the network.
post #24 of 94
No you don't get to sue simply because you find a product unsatisfactory. This would open to door to anyone coming up with their own definition of what is unsatisfactory.

The fact that you have 14 days to try the iPhone and return it if you don't like it, weakens this argument.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

So consumers are just supposed to go about their business and pay no attention to the quality of the products that they buy?
post #25 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Apple deserves it.

They sue everyone. Karma on them.

What goes around. Comes around.

As far as I am concerned, I was using the internet via 3G. It was horribly slow.

And its the phone, not the provider. I am on Rogers and they are not AT&T.


Apple should market the phone with real facts not BS.

i just upgraded to an iphone 3g from old edge iphone and its great, and it flies on 3g, so not sure what most peoples problems are.
post #26 of 94
Get used to the idea that this sort of thing is normal. We read about lawsuits against Apple because we're interested parties. Just go poking around the internet and you'll find lawsuits filed against just about every consumer product company out there. It really is the american way. The structure of our legal system allows suits to be filed for almost any reason without any consequences for the claimants if they lose. For companies like Apple it simply boils down to what is the cheapest route to make the lawsuit go away. None of these lawsuits ever go to trial. It's cheaper to settle even if Apple knows they are not at fault. It's not about principle; it's about cost. The lawyers know this; they set this system up in the first place. Everybody knows it. This is how it works in this country. It's the cost of doing business.

No matter what product is released somebody is going to be disgruntled and the lawyers are always trolling for these people.
post #27 of 94
When are these plaintiffs ever going to learn that in any class action lawsuit they will get less than $20 while the lawyers rake in millions.
post #28 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Really? Give me a network that show its 3x faster.

Walt Mossberg: "The new iPhone typically was between three and five times as fast as the old one."

MacInTouch: "about 2.5 times faster than the best speed we have seen on the EDGE network."

MacWorld: "An iPhone 3G on AT&T's 3G network downloaded media files and loaded Web pages between two and four times as fast as an original iPhone on AT&T's EDGE network."

Arstechnica: "3G usually matched Apple's claims of at least twice the speed of EDGE, and even almost a full three times faster in some cases."


Quote:
Have you seen those Ads? You can do everything in 30s. LOL

You use common sense to understand they only have 30 seconds to show a demonstration of the phones functions and does not necessarily represent real world speeds.

The same way you use common sense to understand you won't have bikini clad girls all around you simply because you drink a certain brand of beer.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

So consumers are just supposed to go about their business and pay no attention to the quality of the products that they buy?

No, it's a matter of degree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

... You don't feel a crack in your phone is important enough to make a big deal out of it. Congratulations, you're an individual. Thousands of other people would prefer that moisture doesn't leak into their phone through cracks.

These things are a matter of how picky you are about stuff and how much hassle it it to fix and are certainly not black and white issues.

I was a bit pissed about the cracks at first, but what I am saying is that even though I noticed them in the first week, I've had the iPhone for about 3 months and never done anything about it. I was going to go and get a replacement for it, but Apple is pretty bad about this actually in that they actively try to dissuade you from getting that replacement. You have to make a big stink about it to get them to do it is what I heard. The point is while I haven't decided what I will do about it really, it turns out (so far) that I guess I have better things to do so far than going through that awful process, just to get two microscopic cracks fixed that I can't even see without a magnifying glass and a strong light. In the end they are just tiny imperfections and nothing is perfect.

I might still get the replacement, but I'm a busy guy so maybe not also. There is no way "moisture" is going to go through these cracks anyway, we are talking sub-micron cracks here that you can't even see most of the time and can only confirm by running your fingernail over them to see if they are cracks or just tiny surface marks.

I would compare the situation to those that obsess about tiny scratches in the finish of their automobiles. To a normal person, if there is a tiny tiny scratch in the paint on their car they would just shrug their shoulders and move on (or perhaps not even notice it in the first place). A certain percentage of people (certain pathetic relatives of mine being some of them sadly), will "rage out" about the scratch and even pay hundreds of bucks to get it "fixed."

If Apple said "turn in your cracked iPhone and we will give you a new one" I would probably do it in a second, but for me the hassle of it all makes it not worth it at the moment. The law suit would be even more hassle and I couldn't live with myself if I was so pathetic as to obsess about this to the point of launching same.
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post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubert View Post

When are these plaintiffs ever going to learn that in any class action lawsuit they will get less than $20 while the lawyers rake in millions.

The plaintiffs named in the suit most likely have a private deal with the lawyers to split the proceeds. Everyone else in the class gets a free song on iTunes.

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post #31 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Really? Give me a network that show its 3x faster.


Have you seen those Ads? You can do everything in 30s. LOL

The same Ad was mimicked and it took over 2m 50s to do the same thing.

That is the problem.

Sure Apple can say it does it all... But don't show an Ad with everything it can do it 30s supercharged. If it wants to do an Ad in 30s.... then show what it really can do in that timeframe. Don't try to fit all 10 things in 1 Ad to get customers to buy the phone to only find out it ain't so.

Obviously. It's also very clear that the TV spot is edited. As are ALL TV spots. I can't think of one commercial that is shown in real time from start to finish (besides Honda "Cog" ad - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEF0cg1j35o (and even this was done in two takes)).

If someone buys an iPhone thinking they can do all that stuff in 30s, then they are very gullible. You most likely couldn't do that on a desktop computer either. Do people actually believe that McDonalds burgers look like the ones in ads? Yet they buy them and don't complain or sue.

It's called advertising. You show the features of the phone. Speeds will be different if you are on EDGE, 3G or WiFi.
post #32 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikraz View Post

This is lawsuit is a complete waste of time and further clogs the court system. The answer is simple- Don't buy the phone, return it! Move on! Is downloading your precious emails that important to your existence? ..you spoiled American twits.

I find it quite sad when I read something like this. It's amazing, the cognitive dissonance - people who apparently believe they are from a superior culture, yet who will happily lash out at an entire country's people for the stupidity of a few. Do you truly believe that your country, whatever it is, is without it's greedy, jealous, stupid groups? And do you think it makes you sound intelligent to slander an entire country?
post #33 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave View Post

One big difference of these suits vs one we argued about last week is the named defendants. One suit last week was against Apple and, amazingly, not AT&T. The slow real-world experience that some of us get is most likely AT&T's fault.

I'm wondering aloud if one of these suits finds AT&T liable (but not Apple), if Apple can break its exclusive deal with AT&T and sell iPhones via any carrier. That'll get more iPhones out there (except, of course, for the first version with cut-and-paste! )

How did AT&T cause the cracks in the iPhone's casing?
You're only mentioning a portion of the lawsuit.
post #34 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

So consumers are just supposed to go about their business and pay no attention to the quality of the products that they buy?

It's called holding the company accountable. Just as if the government decided it was going to take an extra 5% from your pay check just because they feel like it. You would be screaming and yelling about that.

When you don't hold companies accountable for their actions, the consumers are the ones that get screwed. First it's a crack, then down the line it's a screen or a battery.

You don't feel a crack in your phone is important enough to make a big deal out of it. Congratulations, you're an individual. Thousands of other people would prefer that moisture doesn't leak into their phone through cracks.

When Apple sends out compensation checks, you can send yours back.

THAT is life.

Life these days means dealing with whiners. That's just something the rest of us need to get used to, because it's not getting any better in the future. Whining about the whiners only makes it worse. Just ignore.
post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

No I like my iPhone. I don't like how they lied and lured me in with twice as fast.

BIG YAWN...
All of a sudden we have become such pitiful victims. Everybody needs to grow up and remember how we interpreted advertising bull pi (that's 'pre iPhone'). Then everybody needs to stop whining and learn to manage their expectations. Sure, it would be great if the iPhone lived up to our dreams but please, we are on 2nd iteration and if you remember hand held devices pi the device in your hand is pfa (that would be pretty fucking amazing).
post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Really? Give me a network that show its 3x faster.


Have you seen those Ads? You can do everything in 30s. LOL

The same Ad was mimicked and it took over 2m 50s to do the same thing.

That is the problem.

Sure Apple can say it does it all... But don't show an Ad with everything it can do it 30s supercharged. If it wants to do an Ad in 30s.... then show what it really can do in that timeframe. Don't try to fit all 10 things in 1 Ad to get customers to buy the phone to only find out it ain't so.

Why do you keep capitalizing "ad" as if it's a proper noun?
post #37 of 94
Apple needs to use a better grade of plastic- end of story. Sure it gives them higher profit margins and made people ugrade yearly to new iPods due to the wear and tear (Planned Obsolescence) but with a phone its different. Most cellphone makers users a more durable , scratch and crack resistant plastic- so should Apple.
I've never seen a cellphone where you have to buy an additional case just to keep it from scratching due to a paper towel cleaning. A friend showed me his 3G he bought last August - the thing looks like crap because he didn't want a case.
post #38 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne View Post

A load of us got iphones at our office and when we first got them the speeds were ok but not great and over time it just got worse and calls started to not get through. Edge was fine 3G was rubbish.

We would call O2 (in the uk) and they said there is nothing wrong with the coverage.

A few of us noticed that the 3G speed issue was only happening around the office. So we pestered o2 until they sent an engineer out. In the end they 3!

Wouldn't you rather use wi-fi around the office?
post #39 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I've never seen a cellphone where you have to buy an additional case just to keep it from scratching due to a paper towel cleaning. A friend showed me his 3G he bought last August - the thing looks like crap because he didn't want a case.

Seems like an exaggeration to me. I've had the 3G since August as well. With the 2G I had a Zagg protector, but with the 3G I decided I wanted to have the feel of the real device, so I never protected it. I drop it all the time, at least once a month, usually when the headphones get snagged on something. You would have to look at the iPhone under bright lights to see any scratches, a fact that I'm always amazed by. I've never had a phone that performed so well with the abuse I put it through.
post #40 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Really? Give me a network that show its 3x faster.


Have you seen those Ads? You can do everything in 30s. LOL

The same Ad was mimicked and it took over 2m 50s to do the same thing.

That is the problem.

Sure Apple can say it does it all... But don't show an Ad with everything it can do it 30s supercharged. If it wants to do an Ad in 30s.... then show what it really can do in that timeframe. Don't try to fit all 10 things in 1 Ad to get customers to buy the phone to only find out it ain't so.

Next time use your EYES when you watch the advert, it very clearly states that steps have been shortened and network speed will vary. You are an idiot!
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