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Exploring Windows 7 on the Mac: the Taskbar - Page 2

post #41 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.

There's still the 3rd party application Path Finder [1] which only costs a modest amount relative to the amount of features it provides. And it also features cut and paste, so it can't be rocket science if a company consisting of one developer can do something which Apple failed now for years. The Windows Explorer is actually developing nicely and borrows the best features from other file managers. I have to give it to the Linux community though: File managers like Dolphin 4 beat pretty all rivals on other platforms.

Adding to my former statement, I wish Apple would copy Windows Explorer's least destructive paste of folders if the folder in question already exists.

[1] http://www.cocoatech.com/
post #42 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

Maybe I'm wrong, but how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder?

Here try this.

Open your folder in list view by either selecting the list icon at the top of the Finder window or hold down command and hit 2 (Command+1 - icon view, Command+2 - list view, Command+3 Column view). If you want to open all of the folders within that folder at the same time while in list view, hold down option while you click on the little arrow next to folder you want to open. It will open all folders within the that folder's hierarchy. You can then easily move files from folder to folder.

Also, this list view comes in handy for printing out to show a client exactly what is on their disk that I have sent to them. In Windows you cannot show every single file in every single folder that is in a folder hierarchy. At least not that I know of. And that's something I hate about Windows. I actually love list view and pretty much always use it. And it's been with us since Classic.

Hope that helps.
post #43 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

I'm really surprised to hear that so many people prefer the Finder to Windows Explorer. Maybe I'm wrong, but how on earth do you move a file to a deeply nested folder in the Finder? The way I've been doing it is dragging it over the top level folder (usually Documents), wait for that folder to open in the next column while still holding down the mouse button, drag the file over the next folder, wait for that to open, etc. etc. I just hate it. Any enlightenment as to an easier way would be greatly appreciated.

You don't have to wait for the folder to open. No wonder you hate it. Just hit the space bar, and the folder will open immediately.

click, hold - drag - space - space - space - space- space... POP.

It works far better than Windows in my opinion. I hate cutting and pasting with files.
post #44 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenKids View Post

What? Okay so we agree that Finder is horrible. It's being horrible since the beginning of time. And we can only hope Apple fix it in the Snow Leopard.

But layout and functionality wise, it's waaaayyyy better the Windows Explorer. As a matter of fact, I find WE more and more annoying from 2000 to XP then to Vista, it gets slower increamentally, definately more crush prone, crazy shotcuts & most visited everywhere. I was so frustrated by Vista's Windows Explorer, finally decided to start to use the vastly visually unpleasing Total Commander instead. It took a while to get use to, but 2 days later I never intentionally opened a WE window ever since.

While I think Finder certainly has some weaker areas that need to be improved I'm overall fairly happy with it. As for Windows Explorer (my reason for posting), from a UI/UX standpoint is just terrible and confusing: Case & Point
post #45 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.

I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.

I like Finder much better than XP's Explorer. Vista is a big improvement, but not quite there. I really like the Cmd-Tab behavior in Mac- there's one icon for Finder instead of one icon for each Explorer Window. I eventually started using xplorer2 for Windows, which is a huge improvement and I'm playing with the Pathfinder demo right now. Two pane view is the way to go.
post #46 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

DID NOT INVENT FINDER, DOCK and more...

Google YZ Dock or Konfabulator

...Are you implying the OS X dock was copied from Yz Dock? The Yz Dock that came out in 2002 and was made specifically to work and act like the OS X dock and so was sent a cease and desist?
post #47 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.

Holy crap, I can't believe I just read that. Windows Explorer is so convoluted and a pain in my bum to use. The Mac Finder is awesome and simple. I can type in any document, application, anything, and it will be found easily. Windows never finds anything I'm looking for, and items are always scattered every which way it's so difficult to pinpoint anything.

I'm forced to use Windows every day at work, and I want to shoot myself. What gets me the most about Microsoft copying Apple is the fact that all those Windows users who don't know jack about OS X start thinking that Windows is *so* innovative and looks *so* awesome! What they will probably never know or care to realize, is OS X did it first, and also far better. Microsoft takes credit for things Apple has created, and the regular "PC" user will never know the difference.

Microsoft needs it's own shtick, and to shtick to it.
post #48 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You don't have to wait for the folder to open. No wonder you hate it. Just hit the space bar, and the folder will open immediately.

click, hold - drag - space - space - space - space- space... POP.

It works far better than Windows in my opinion. I hate cutting and pasting with files.

Or you can just change the view of the window... I'm not on my Mac right now so I can't specifically explain myself, but it's the one with columns... Just click down to the folder you want, then drag the item you want into it.
post #49 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwarf420 View Post

While I think Finder certainly has some weaker areas that need to be improved I'm overall fairly happy with it. As for Windows Explorer (my reason for posting), from a UI/UX standpoint is just terrible and confusing: Case & Point

Hilarious!

I don't see how anyone can argue that Microsoft knows what it's doing "design-wise" when you see stuff like this. And this in Windows 7, after years and years of polishing the turd. Absolutely incredible.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #50 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac31 View Post

Or you can just change the view of the window... I'm not on my Mac right now so I can't specifically explain myself, but it's the one with columns... Just click down to the folder you want, then drag the item you want into it.

The other way is to open two Finder windows, navigate to the file on one, and to the destination on the other, then a single drag. This is the best way when you're moving more than one item to or from slightly different places. Again, works better than the Windows Explorer equivalent.
post #51 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

Must be early responders so far as most mac users, especially those who are POST INTEL and Post PPC, are those that demand faster products, know about overclocking, registry edit, are more likely to build a hack and use BBEdit to edit the .plist and .kext files, et-cetera, and most will know Apple

DID NOT INVENT FINDER, DOCK and more...

Google YZ Dock or Konfabulator

Then look here: for articles about Widgets.
http://wincustomize.com/articles.aspx?aid=318845&c=1

Then of course there is the truth that FINDER was created by Windows and they never got it out for XP, it
was then released first by Apple, then Microsoft finally got it with it's current VISTA release.

Of course, if you want to see 3d and glass effects and things like spaces, expose, look at Sun Micro systems "looking glass project" This BLOWS away any OS and is almost 10 years old.....click BELOW, select "WATCH PRESENTATION" and go in about 1:53 minutes.

PS. LOOKING GLASS was/is LEAPS and BOUNDS ahead of OS X - (at the time, many ideas from Sun made it to Leopard),
so ask yourself WHO copied who.

HECK, the DOCK on LOOKING GLASS is a DIRECT COPY from APPLE TO OS X Leopard .


Go in 5:10 to see how Apple got the idea of QUICK LOOK - (No wonder my cousin who wrote 3 books so far for Java doesn't partically like Apple -
I just re-watched the video - and when I first watched it YEARS ago, Apple had not come out with the QUICK LOOK - hmmmmm, interesting.
Project
LOOKING GLASS - go in about 1:53 minutes and you will see how Apple LEOPARD copied Sun - years ago.
http://www.sun.com/software/looking_glass/

I find it hillarious how Mac Zealots say MSFT copied Apple when it simply isn't true, plus anything that MSFT has vs Apple you can add another zero, example, Jobs woth (e.g.) 3 billion, Gates 30 billion, market share Apple 9%, MSFT 90%.

Personally, I think the more similar they are the better - as I use both and would rather have command C copy on both, or have interchangeable widgets. Also, in theory, since Apple machines (Asus motherboards), and Intel CPU's, Micron memory, run Microsoft OS, if I were Microsoft I would challenge Apple and create machines that could RUN OS X and make them go to court. Basically all the parts are NON APPLE with the exception of EFI vs BIOS but since BIOS is somehow emulated on the MAC to run WINDOWS, as Microsoft, I would make the argument that it's only fair to emulate EFI, all Microsoft would have to do (besides purchase Apple, which they could, even though they would end up in court), is purchase the patent to the Bios.

I also think that Microsoft could purchase Red Hat, or Ubutu (Linux) and release an 2nd OS and you would see developers jump all over it - for arguments sake, I'll say it again, I would much rather have two OS's close rather than a departure as it makes things easier to do. However, when one looks at Looking glass, just one point of view from 2003, it's easy to see that Apple copied Sun for many of their ideas, yet Fan boyz think its Apples idea.

Peace

Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.

And who cares about Bill Gates net worth? He made the money by stealing other people's ideas and screwing over fifteen business partners royally in the years leading up to Windows 3.1. And as to market share, who cares? Do you know how many millions of people 9% of American users amounts to? Apple is a company having its best financial returns ever during the worst recession since the Great Depression because people want quality and the any hardware goes approach Windows takes simply doesn't produce that (especially if that hardware is made by Dell).

And if you honestly think your scheme for Microsoft to force Apple to open its OS would work, you lack an understanding of the American legal system at large and precedent law in specific (you also lack knowledge of who owns some of things you speak of).
post #52 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

What exactly are we looking at for the finder for change? I think the modifications for my needs would be simple. Give me a two pane view and perhaps a shelf of some sort for easy cut n paste.

I certainly think there are better tools for "finding" files.

I think there should be some kind of Advanced Search. Currently, the finder uses Spotlight, which only indexes the Applications & Home folders AFAIK, so I cannot easily search for a file located in the Library/Application Support folder for example. For most files normally in the User folders this is great but there should be the option to dig deeper. Last time I had to do a full search I ended up having to use Terminal and the BSD find command which seems to take forever (especially if you don't narrow the search down with multiple flags). BTW does PathFinder do any better with this aspect?
post #53 of 94
Thanks everyone for all the suggestions on moving files around the Finder. I don't really agree that most of these suggestions are as simple or intuitive as the dual pane view of Windows Explorer. The Path Finder application for Mac, which is kind of a Finder replacement, touts its dual pane view on its home page, so I don't think I'm alone in my love of the dual pane view.

That said, one suggestion caught my attention: open two Finder windows! Duh! So I did that, and resized them so that they are side by side in a semi-dual-pane format (with the left side in list view and the right side in column view). This is a very close approximation of what I was looking for, and it works great. Thanks again, this is going to make my life much easier.
post #54 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvri View Post

Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.

And who cares about Bill Gates net worth? He made the money by stealing other people's ideas and screwing over fifteen business partners royally in the years leading up to Windows 3.1. And as to market share, who cares? Do you know how many millions of people 9% of American users amounts to? Apple is a company having its best financial returns ever during the worst recession since the Great Depression because people want quality and the any hardware goes approach Windows takes simply doesn't produce that (especially if that hardware is made by Dell).

And if you honestly think your scheme for Microsoft to force Apple to open its OS would work, you lack an understanding of the American legal system at large and precedent law in specific (you also lack knowledge of who owns some of things you speak of).

He's a troll... Don't bother arguing
17" i7 Macbook Pro (Mid 2010), Mac Mini (early 2006), G3 B&W, G3 Beige Tower, 3 G3 iMacs (original, bondi, snow), Power Mac 7600/132, Power Mac 7100/100, Power Mac 6100/60, Performa 5280, Performa...
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17" i7 Macbook Pro (Mid 2010), Mac Mini (early 2006), G3 B&W, G3 Beige Tower, 3 G3 iMacs (original, bondi, snow), Power Mac 7600/132, Power Mac 7100/100, Power Mac 6100/60, Performa 5280, Performa...
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post #55 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Banalltv View Post

Open the folder you want and just put your stuff in. If you want to use that folder a lot then create an alias of that folder and put it somewhere convenient and drag and drop.

Or: Drag the folder's icon to the left bit - forgot what it's called - of any open folder window and it will appear there in all open folder windows and you can drag and drop from anywhere or any folder onto it.

Or: Drag the folder's icon to the dock and do the same.

When you're done just drag them back out and they're gone. Keeps your workspace tidy.

If you really love burrowing down into folders speed it up by hitting the spacebar to open a folder immediately or change the timing of springing open in the system prefs.

Even easier yet, just put the alias of your important folders into the sidebar of the finder (something I don't think you can do in windows) and then dragging important files to your often used important folders is a simple drag and drop to the left on the sidebar. Simple and easy. But I can't figure out how to put an alias of a folder on the sidebar of windows XP, don't think you can? I have aliases of my important deeply nested folders right on the side bar, makes it real easy to navigate. As usual the easiest and most elegant way is so hard to see for some people.
post #56 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead View Post

Even easier yet, just put the alias of your important folders into the sidebar of the finder

I think the person you responded to was saying the same thing when he suggested "Drag the folder's icon to the left bit ... of any open folder window." This is a great suggestion if you have just a small number of folders that you are going to be dragging items to. It doesn't work so well for me, as I drag stuff to tons of different folders. I'm going to stick with my earlier idea: arrange two finder windows side-by-side to simulate a dual-pane view.
post #57 of 94
Note: You = author of article

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The new Taskbar in Windows 7 is so greatly improved that Microsoft’s more vocal proponents have begun calling it the Ultrabar, just as Apple fans began calling the new Dock in Leopard the UltraDock.

Everyone calls it the Superbar, not the Ultrabar as you tried very hard to link to the UltraDock. Try google "Microsoft new ultrabar windows 7" and "Microsoft new superbar Windows 7". The only link to the Ultrabar reference to Windows 7 is THIS review. What's your motive for this?

Quote:
...the Windows 7 version (which may yet still change before its release) must be manually "unlocked” before resizing it, and then can only be resized in half inch-sized increments.

What does half inch-sized increment means on a monitor? Maybe what you wanted to say was "in increments of xyz pixels," or maybe "double the original height," but I guess half inch-sized sounds "better."

Quote:
Even so, resizing the Taskbar ... nor provides more vertical room for organizing Taskbar items (as Windows users might expect). You can’t organize icons in vertical rows, making it fairly useless to change the vertical height of the Taskbar.

Unless my interpretation for this is wrong, what you said is completely wrong (except for icon resize, where you can only choose between "small" or "large" icons). The Superbar can incremented to be double-height so that you have more room to pin items onto the bar. Heck, you can have 4 rows of icons if you want, and you can move icons around to your liking. Is this intentional misinformation?

Double-height Superbar with icons on both rows: http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/298/d...uperbardi6.jpg

Quote:
The Dock comes to Windows

For over ten years, nothing significant happened to the Windows Taskbar apart from the application of new themes. After the release of Vista, Microsoft set out to develop conceptual ideas of how to rethink the Taskbar for the next major version of Windows. The ideas experimented with different types of round dial controls and busy box information panels to replace the standard Taskbar (below).

I thought all of those concepts were FAKE, in that they were never from Microsoft in the first place, in that they were all created by enthusiasts. Since you're the author, where can I read more on these concepts originated from Microsoft? Heck, one of the screenshot here is exactly the one you showed: Concept Seven


Suggestion: (you = all readers)

Read this review: Paradigms lost: The Windows 7 Taskbar versus the OS X Dock

Now, compare to what this author wrote. What are the differences? Which one do you learn more from? Which one is more objective?

You can see detailed screenshot of all the possible configurations of the taskbar: Detailed screenshots of Superbar
post #58 of 94
"Having said that, some features, such as the Docks zooming magnification effect, are far more fun than they are useful, resulting in many users turning it off after the novelty subsides. "

The above may be true for some, but for the elderly and the visually impaired, zooming magnification is a godsend --or is that Job-send.
post #59 of 94
There is a huge difference between Mac OS dock and the Windows taskbar... Microsoft seems to have a different perspective on the taskbar ; they are trying to transform it into a really powerful tool that will allow users to get as many things done as possible. A quick look into the right click menu available for the apps which are in fact on that Taskbar clearly shows that. On the other hand Apple is not walking the same path with the Dock. Dock is used more as a Quick Launch tool and really nothing more than that. For more in depth interaction with the running applications Apple has other tools [ expose,spaces,spotlight - which is far superior than the equivalent of Windows - to name some ] .

Now about the Windows 7 Taskbar,or the so called "Superbar" : I must say that if it wasn't for the right click menu on the applications,then i would consider it completely useless,not really that much of a power user tool and to be honest not even a decent productivity tool for regular users. The "Hover & Preview" feature is nothing more than eye candy and to be honest a simple key stroke for expose seems not only to be faster [ since you don't have to actually take your hands of the keyboard ] but also more intuitive. Even on a laptop a 4 finger swap is far superior in both speed and nature. The right click menu although useful still lacks functionality. As far as i know there are really no keyboard shortcuts to it which makes it a bit of a hustle for power users. Being able to preview multiple tabs of the web browser is cool but you still have to use the mouse hover technique...

Overall i think MS failed with that one again...not that it's not better than the previous version of the Taskbar but because they failed to give it the extra "push" which would transform that from just another useless thing to a real productivity tool.


ps: I would love for you guys though to give a review on the Record Problems App which comes with Windows 7 That one looks cool and imho can really make a difference,starting with Help forums
post #60 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvri View Post

Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.

And who cares about Bill Gates net worth? He made the money by stealing other people's ideas and screwing over fifteen business partners royally in the years leading up to Windows 3.1. And as to market share, who cares? Do you know how many millions of people 9% of American users amounts to? Apple is a company having its best financial returns ever during the worst recession since the Great Depression because people want quality and the any hardware goes approach Windows takes simply doesn't produce that (especially if that hardware is made by Dell).

And if you honestly think your scheme for Microsoft to force Apple to open its OS would work, you lack an understanding of the American legal system at large and precedent law in specific (you also lack knowledge of who owns some of things you speak of).

And you are as biased for Apple as he is for Microsoft so please don't pull the same BS.

And for a guy that made his money stealing it from so many companies and people he sure is a generous man that has saved millions of lives using billions of his own dollars.

You're right Gates is an ass.
post #61 of 94
I just find it humoring that there are so many zealots that claim MS stole ideas from Apple when if you look at Project Looking Glass, its easy to spot where many of the ideas came from.

I love Apple products and use them daily, however, ever since Apple put out these bogus technical charts and benchmarks that said the G4 was a STUDIO in a BOX, I never believe anything they say and especially anything a zealot has to say.
post #62 of 94
PS. The reason I post some of my opinions is it drives me nuts to see so many people walking blind.

Example, I posted that Apple Stores, BOH had virus protect software and took some screen shots to prove it and know one believed me until they saw the images. Months later a story comes out about Virus and the mac.

I post that Jobs is ill (reason for the bow out at MWorld 09 and then go on to say we'll see new iMacs before June and that this was planned and executed right before Mac World), now they are in the works and the SEC is investigating Jobs.

If people stopped making phony claims such as MSFT stole (insert hear) or that Apple could do no WRONG (remove Fire wire from Macbook and think it was a design issue), I mean really people, I probably wouldn't spend so much time posting this stuff and would be talking more about future hardware, software, wants and needs, fixes for Logic, FCP, et-cetera.

I don't mean to offend though.

For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
post #63 of 94
[QUOTE=MacOldTimer;1373489]And you are as biased for Apple as he is for Microsoft so please don't pull the same BS.

And for a guy that made his money stealing it from so many companies and people he sure is a generous man that has saved millions of lives using billions of his own dollars.

You're right Gates is an ass.[/QUOTE)
I am nowhere near as biased as he is, I simply can't stand you and your adoration for what amounts to the single biggest purveyor of crap on the earth: Dell. You claim mounds of bogus crap about Apple while treating Dell like some kind of g-d like creature, when the reality is that even most PC buyers hate the company (which is why it's tanking so hard right now). And please save your Bill Gates is a charitable man crap. His money was made on the backs of others fair and simple. It doesn't matter what he does with it after that point. You act like a crime lord who donates to his local church is somehow an okay guy under that logic.

Besides, most of what he does in the U.S. especially is give away Windows computers to schools contingent on their agreement to pay for various Microsoft services (such as servers). Again, donating to charity doesn't forgive a life of ethical violations and using your charity for company evangelism is in and of itself an ethical violation.

And why do you comment here anymore anyway? You hate Apple and seem to derive nothing but annoyance from your convos here.
post #64 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

I don't like how the OS X dock minimizes each window to its own icon. I really like how you can mouse over a taskbar icon in Win7 and see all the open windows for that application, while also making the other applications transparent. Assuming it runs smoothly and quickly, that seems a lot more functional than Expose. Expose organizes the windows on the screen in haphazard fashion, and the window thumbnails are too similar for me to be able to quickly jump to what I want. Win7, on the other hand, ties the window thumbnails to the application icon, so you always know exactly what you're looking at. Very smart, I hope 10.6 adopts some of these ideas.

By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.

Sounds to me like you are still a victim of Windows work flow habits. That's all it is. Why would you need to minimize any window in a Mac? This is a habit from Windows. You close a window in Windows and the App quits. You then find yourself waiting for the app to re-start again when you open a another file for that app. Not so on the Mac. Remember that. When you are done with a window, close it. Make it a habit and Expose will start working perfectly when you need to use it.

As far as the Mac Finder being worst then Windows Explorer. Here again, it just a training pattern you have from using Windows. The Mac finder is way more customizable and much more efficient than Windows Explorer.

Retrain yourself to use the work flow of the Mac and you will find yourself shaking your head at Windows even more.

post #65 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvri View Post

Please go elsewhere with your vile, no one here is claiming Apple came up with everything it does. The difference is that Apple typically either buys the company doing what it wants to integrate or it licenses the technology. Microsoft on the other hand copies the idea outright just enough to not legally violate copyright/patent laws and acts as if it invented the idea. Steve Jobs has mentioned many companies during keynotes that he derived ideas from (even Microsoft once). The entire conversation here is about how ridiculous it is that Microsoft claimed for years that a dock was an inefficient and unworkable solution and now it's adopting it in full.

Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?

I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?

I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).

Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.

All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.

Regs, Jarkko
post #66 of 94
What's with all the Windows "news" lately?
post #67 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

By the way, the Mac Finder is horrible. That's definitely been the worst thing about switching to Mac, in my opinion. Can we please get something better? Windows Explorer is far better in my view.

Windows Explorer is overly complex, inconsistent and downright hideous. Pure Microsoft!

I think dealing with the Finder is just a matter of switching mindsets.
For Instance: Try activating the Path Bar (in the View menu). And adding the Path button to the ToolBar. These things really help knowing where the hell you are in the folder hierarchy! I find very few people activate them, or even know of their existence!

I think that Apple itself, in their striving to keep the interface as simple as possible has done absolutely NOTHING to let users know about extremely useful and powerful features that are hidden. I see their reasoning, Keep It SImple, but find that they've gone too far and need a way for users looking to work more efficiently an easy intro into what Apple seems to consider "advanced" features. There are only so many things that one is likely to stumble across!

I use file and folder labeling quite a bit. I WISH that the labeling were somehow reflected in open Finder windows, like tinting the Title Bar then label color or something. OS 9 colorized the Title Bar icon, I believe.

Try PathFinder as an alternative to the Finder.
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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post #68 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonX View Post

That said, one suggestion caught my attention: open two Finder windows! Duh!

I first did that in 1985 on my Mac 512K!
Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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Macintosh: It just WORKS!
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post #69 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?

Yes Apple bought it. No, not from Sun. Read the Wiki entry, it's all there.

And yes, this paticular implement is patented.


Claiming that Apple “stole” the idea from Sun without checking out your fact makes you fall into the exact group of people you just dissed, only in an anti-apple manner.
post #70 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

As always, Mac OS X and Windows assert themselves (in that order) as the best GUI operating systems, superior in most ways to Linux and the various Unixes. I run OpenSolaris at home, with a GNOME configuration that looks a lot like Ubuntu's.

There are not one, but two "taskbars" (panels), instead of one.

Here's a screenshot:

http://blogs.sun.com/amitsaha/resour...box/shot-2.png

The top panel contains:

1) Launchers for Applications, Places, and System
2) Various quick launchers
3) Notification icons and various applets
4) Date and time

The bottom panel contains:

1) Show desktop
2) Running programs (pre-Windows 7 style)
3) Multiple desktops
4) Trash

It's a terribly inefficient use of space.

KDE 4.2 also supports this inefficient use of space.

The Dock (which Microsoft has used for inspiration for its new taskbar), for some of its flaws, combines the following functionality:

A) Application launcher.
B) Application switcher.
C) Application-specific notifier (ex, Firefox is trying to install an update, so it bounces up and down).

Microsoft hasn't implemented the Mac-style menu bar at the top, and have chosen instead to hide the window-specific menu bar whenever it can.

Still, despite its flaws, I like the Dock, and I'm glad Microsoft is finally using its design principles. I wish GNOME and KDE would do the same.

I would like to point out that the taskbars are totally reconfigurable. You can get rid of one if you like. You can reorganize where anything is. You can get rid of both taskbars completely and use a Dock (which can look like OS X or W7, or something else altogether). There are many more possibilities out there for you in Linux in terms of a simple taskbar/dock than there are with Windows or Mac.

Although, like Windows, there is still no Window Specific Menu bar. I'm curious if anyone has worked or is working on that feature? (Though for me, that was often confusing when I had multiple windows open, but everyone works differently)
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
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Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
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post #71 of 94
"Having said that, some features, such as the Docks zooming magnification effect, are far more fun than they are useful, resulting in many users turning it off after the novelty subsides."

Sorry, but this statement is patently false. The reason for the zoom in the Dock is 2-fold. The primary reason is ergonomic. The human hand does not travel horizontally in a straight line, rather, it arcs. The Dock magnification mimics this and is more ergonomically correct. The second reason - the minor one, actually - is that the Dock "comes to you" as you approach it, thus minimizing cursor travel.
post #72 of 94
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #73 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

Unchecked and uncritiqued fandom (or should we call it blind faith religion?) seems to be at play here. Why would you claim that stating a fact and proving it is "vile"? Is it because it doesn't fit the official AppleInsider dogmas?

I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?

I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).

Even the last announcement about Apple creating a new battery technology with the new Macbooks went down without so much as a cough here. Li-Poly batteries have been used in mobile phones for ages and is not an Apple innovation.

All I'm hoping to find here is insights to technology (and Apple is bringing new stuff or new applications of stuff), but the unchecked fandom and hatered of everything against the dogmas of this site is really limiting the possibilities of discussion and sharing of ideas. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dogma. Fandom is fine, but badmouthing people for stating and proving fact in my opinion IS vile.

Regs, Jarkko

Yes, Apple did license the technology from the Palo Alto. It licensed the right to some of the elements of that GUI because at the time Xerox thought doing that would make it more money than enforcing its rights to keep it to itself. There was also an exchange of stock with Xerox, for that matter. Apple, took took that GUI into entirely different places than Xerox did and a huge number of PARC employees moved to Apple as a result. Given none of us have any idea what the original PARC system looked like, its really hard to say just how much was changed. However, since we have seen the OS Apple released after that and then Windows 1.0 which was released after working with Apple, it's pretty obvious what happened. And he did not prove anything as fact, he offered a link to Sun's site, which does little more than explain what Project Looking Glass is. I Googled more information than that site provided. I might add, though, Sun was also invited to PARC and no agreement was ever made, but look what it came up with.

Cover flow was purchased from Andrew Coulter Enright in 2006, it was not just lifted from Project Looking Glass. And Looking Glass was doing a 3D, not a 2D effect. So, again Apple bought the rights to what it wanted to implement. Might they have seen Looking Glass and wanted to implement something similar to it? Sure, but that doesn't mean they lifted the idea outright as you seem to believe. There are far more similarities to Looking Glass in Linux distros than there are in OS X. And on a side note, given the presentation on Sun's website, is it not comical that Sun itself has adopted very few of Looking Glass's elements?

The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.

I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.
post #74 of 94
He has made this looking glass claim before, he was told that this was wrong. The basic UI concepts of OS X come from NEXTStep which was released in 1989.

OS X was introduced in 2000, while Sun's Looking Glass was introduced in 2003.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jahonen View Post

I believe he merely stated, that Apple stole many of the ideas for OS X UI from looking glass after many cheerful shouts about how Microsoft steals everything from Apple. Even Coverflow for iPods comes from there. Did Apple pay for it or did they just "borrow" the ideas?

I believe his post was not vile (at least the reference to Looking Glass). Merely a good point and wakeup to those who (rightly so) blame Microsoft for lack of innovation and a tendency to copy and repackage but at the same time claim (incorrectly so) that Apple only innovates and if it doesn't, it buys the rights (did they do so for Looking Glass, Xerox Palo Alto etc.?).
post #75 of 94
You are not being offensive the ultimate problem is that you use outright wrong information as facts, and make flawed conclusions from wrong information.

The other problem is that it can be difficult to understand you posts. If English isn't your native language this is understandable, but all the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hiimamac View Post

PS. The reason I post some of my opinions is it drives me nuts to see so many people walking blind.

For any PAST transgressions, I apologize. I love Apple and their products, I really do, I just wish they would hurry and give us all the products we need e.g., I've been asking for an Apple TV that has DVR for years, now they are doing it. Nonetheless, I really do apologize for going off on tangents and spewing things that have offended anyone. Again, my apologies.
post #76 of 94
What year did the OS X dock come out? What year did Windows 95 come out? When was quicklaunch and a dock/taskbar added? Why does MAC even have a desktop... resembling that of windows... with a screen saver... and a desktop backround.... hmmmmmmmm hmm hm hmm.. lol some mac users are feeling a little scared about now. All the hype about windows 7 is causing panic... puting out articles for an attempt at a cheap shot lol. Good luck with that. More computers have Vista than OS X and people hate vista... lol People love windows 7 and just wait till its launch when all computers have it... offices switch to it because of how efficient it is and even every net book will have it... uh oh apple fan boys what now?
post #77 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel0418 View Post

What year did the OS X dock come out? What year did Windows 95 come out? When was quicklaunch and a dock/taskbar added? Why does MAC even have a desktop... resembling that of windows... with a screen saver... and a desktop backround.... hmmmmmmmm hmm hm hmm.. lol some mac users are feeling a little scared about now. All the hype about windows 7 is causing panic... puting out articles for an attempt at a cheap shot lol. Good luck with that. More computers have Vista than OS X and people hate vista... lol People love windows 7 and just wait till its launch when all computers have it... offices switch to it because of how efficient it is and even every net book will have it... uh oh apple fan boys what now?

Do you have anything intelligent to contribute or do you just enjoy making idiotic forum posts?
post #78 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvri View Post

The reason his comments are vile is because he comes here, by his own admission, to piss people off. And since his facts are nowhere near as thought out as you seem to believe, he, consequently, has offered nothing to the debate. And you aren't doing any better: no one claimed that Apple invented the new battery technology they showed off. All Apple claimed it invented was the processor they use to regulate its output.

I very much stand by my comment: Apple innovates and licenses, Microsoft steals. Plain and simple. Apple uses open source technology, Microsoft has yet to realize that anything other than proprietary technology/formats exist. I don't worship Apple or any other company, the simple fact is that I can see Microsoft for the fraud that it is.

I stand corrected on the Palo Alto example even though most if the references on the net still do say that there are several controversies still about how much Apple copied form PARC (for example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_GUI). However this is the kind of discussion I'm looking for in general. Multiple sides are brought out and dissenting views are not immediately "squashed".

It cannot be assumed that a person has read every single post on the site before one can comment. I reacted to the immediate calling of someone "vile" when they were introducing dissenting views to existing dogmas. My apologies for not reading all of his posts on the site and researching his "tendencies".

But my main point was about allowing viewpoints that do not support the existing dogmas. I do believe my point was already proven a, when I was promptly called an anti-Apple zealot for daring to point this out. Maybe I used the wrong tactics (not a thorough research on the examples), but at least it did prove my main point.

Personally I usually vote for innovation and choice. Thus I prefer to champion linux and Apple for the change in the industry they are forcing to occur. But it's a benefit to all if opposing thoughts are encouraged instead of being immediately extinguished. In this particular case I didn't know the background of the post and poster I defended (should I have?). And yes, I took too much at face value.

I do applaud Apples innovation especially in user interfaces and usability. No question about it.

Regs, Jarkko
post #79 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by fryke View Post

What's with all the Windows "news" lately?

I was wondering the same thing, but my only guess is that because Apple has done nothing of merit lately, besides a couple SW packages, and a (delayed) 17" laptop, there is nothing to else write about.

As far as the Dock vs. the Win7 taskbar, I don't see any real similarities. The Dock is just a container with icons, but it doesn't do anything like application previews (unless you minimize the app), whereas the Win7 taskbar is like a combination of the Quick Launch bar and the taskbar found in previous versions of Windows, but with a much improved application preview, compared to Vista.

In either case, it's just a slow news day.
post #80 of 94
Over on the right of the new ultrabar - That golf flag is immediately recognizable as a... tee time alert, and the... um... monitor with the devil's spear on the left margin means... oh yeah, meeting in Ballmer's office in 30.
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