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Apple's Snow Leopard to load printer drivers on demand

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
As part of Apple's plans to help trim the footprint of Mac OS X Snow Leopard, the new system will cease the customary installation of several gigabytes of printer drivers and instead load only the files necessary for existing devices, relying on Software Update to obtain new drivers in the future as needed.

Prepared for anything

Back in the late 80s, Apple began bundling PPD files for various PostScript printers with its System Software. The files identified features specific to each model, making it simple for users to take full advantage of each model. However, as the consumer market for printers expanded, expensive PostScript licensing was left behind for simpler and cheaper alternatives that relied on custom driver software unique to each printer manufacturer.

Microsoft began installing lots of third party printer drivers with the installation of Windows to make it simpler for users to install their printer without needing to obtain printer software themselves, a practice Apple also adopted. However, as printer manufacturers have expanded their printer software offerings to differentiate their hardware with special software features such as ink management and other add on utilities, the size of driver software has expanded rapidly.

Additionally, printer drivers are being updated more frequently and new printer models are appearing quickly enough to make it hard for operating system releases to stay current. Both Apple and Microsoft now support the ability of printer installation software to search for new or updated drivers online; Leopard began handling updates for HP drivers in 2007.

Just in time downloads

With the release of Snow Leopard this spring, Apple will put an end to the default installation of tons of drivers, according to people familiar with the latest test releases of the software. Instead, it will only install a select subset of drivers, including support for any currently attached printers or those that had been installed on the same Mac under previous versions of Mac OS X.

Sources say the system will review devices attached via USB and will scan the network for any printers advertised as available via Bonjour in order to create a short list of drivers that need to be installed. Any new printers that are attached after the installation of Snow Leopard will cause Software Update to check for drivers online.



This new policy will shave several unnecessary gigabytes from the Snow Leopard footprint, compounding the savings related to the new HFS+ file compression for compacting read only files and the compression and/or removal of unnecessary NIB files that will result in a greatly reduced size of applications on the new system.

Skinny new software

A similar practice has been put into place in GarageBand 09, which offers a series of free video instructions for learning how to play instruments. Rather than installing all of the videos by default, the new app allows users to download just the lessons they want, saving considerable disk space.

The same policy could also be applied to foreign language localization files and fonts, which currently consume lots of disk space but are only used by relatively small portions of the Mac OS X user base.

While software developers have historically relied on the luxury of constantly expanding, cheap hard drive space to ignore any need to be conservative in the amount of files loaded during installation, Apple's interest in deploying systems that use more expensive but faster SSD devices has resulted in new efforts to make Snow Leopard smaller and leaner than the system it replaces.
post #2 of 89
Don't most of us do this already??

Whenever I do a fresh install of Leopard or earlier, I always only check the print drivers for the printers in my home, only Epson. Why would I need Lexmark or HP or Canon drivers? I never print wirelessly when out and about so no worries there about running into a strange printer on a network.

Oh and language support? Chucked out the window with the print drivers too.

But I have to say that I do like that Apple is being proactive with trimming the OS install.
post #3 of 89
Only downside I see is when working in an environment w/o internet access, and you need the driver.

Hoping you can pre-install what you need.
post #4 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

As part of Apple's plans to help trim the footprint of Mac OS X Snow Leopard, the new system will cease the customary installation of several gigabytes of printer drivers and instead load only the files necessary for existing devices, relying on Software Update to obtain new drivers in the future as needed.

The same policy could also be applied to foreign language localization files and fonts, which currently consume lots of disk space but are only used by relatively small portions of the Mac OS X user base.

While software developers have historically relied on the luxury of constantly expanding, cheap hard drive space to ignore any need to be conservative in the amount of files loaded during installation, Apple's interest in deploying systems that use more expensive but faster SSD devices has resulted in new efforts to make Snow Leopard smaller and leaner than the system it replaces.

Excellent move by Apple to make things tidier.
post #5 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Don't most of us do this already??

Whenever I do a fresh install of Leopard or earlier, I always only check the print drivers for the printers in my home, only Epson. Why would I need Lexmark or HP or Canon drivers? I never print wirelessly when out and about so no worries there about running into a strange printer on a network.

Oh and language support? Chucked out the window with the print drivers too.

But I have to say that I do like that Apple is being proactive with trimming the OS install.

The majority of average consumers --not power users who may be forum members -- don't tinker with custom installs, is my bet. So this will have a positive affect on more people that you may think

Kasper
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post #6 of 89
I also like dumping these things, but I often have to print to machines that aren't connected to my network, so I do need some of those drivers. I hope there will be some way to retain the ones we want.
post #7 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I also like dumping these things, but I often have to print to machines that aren't connected to my network, so I do need some of those drivers. I hope there will be some way to retain the ones we want.

The whole concept is that SL will immediately search and obtain drivers for new wired and wireless printers as they're connected to a Mac running SL. So the only issue would be printing to a new printer in the absence of an internet connection to query SW Update.
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post #8 of 89
I agree that Apple needs to cut down the install size, but rather than using the software update mechanism, they should be rolling out a Mac OS X app store and offering all printer driver installations as free apps.

Using an app store model would allow people to get the full installations (scanner software, ink management, etc...) rather than just a simple print driver.

Plus it would keep the software update doing what it is meant to do - update existing software - not install new software. Remember how pissed the windows people got a year or so ago when apple installed safari by default when updating iTunes/QT??? Separating the two activities (updating and installing) would be a terrifically intelligent PR move.
post #9 of 89
One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English
post #10 of 89
PPD files are small.

Binary proprietary files are bloated and large. That's HP and it's custom applications which are massive and unneeded, unless you have a device [scanner/print/fax] that requires certain applications to inter-operate with the device.

Otherwise, a straight PPD for a printer is puny.

Here is a list of Brother PPD files:

mdriftmeyer@horus:/usr/share/ppd/foomatic-rip/openprinting-gs-builtin/Brother$ ls -rhlt
total 184K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5170DN-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1240-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-DCP-8045D-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-MFC-9600-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-720-hl7x0.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-7050-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5250DN-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5150D-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5140-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5040-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5040-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5030-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-4Ve-laserjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-4050CDN-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2460-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2400CeN-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2400CeN-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2060-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2060-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1850-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.6K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1670N-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.7K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1450-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1430-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1270N-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1260-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1260-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1250-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1050-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-DCP-8045D-hl7x0.ppd.gz

Here for HP:

mdriftmeyer@horus:/usr/share/ppd/foomatic-rip/openprinting-gs-builtin/HP$ ls -rhlt
total 592K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_R80-cdj1600.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_940C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5000-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1315-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1100-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P100-pjxl300.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PaintJet-pj.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_R45-deskjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_Pro_1175C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_G95-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_500-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_300-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_300-djet500.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_Plus-ljetplus.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_9000-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_6-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4Si-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4ML-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4M-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4100-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4000-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3P_w_PCL5-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3310_MFP-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3300_MFP-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2-laserjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1220-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1220-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1100A-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_990C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_980C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_955C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_932C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_882C-cdj850.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_850C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_815C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_810C-cdj670.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_722C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_712C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_694C-cdj550.upp.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_690C-cdj670.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_680C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_610C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_400-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_350C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_310-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1600CM-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_750C_Plus-dnj650c.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_5500-chp2200.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5-cljet5.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5500-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_2500-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-2500CM-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1215-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1100-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_T45-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_LX-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_635-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_330-djet500.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_8150-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_5Si-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4ML-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4M-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4050-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4050-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3320N_MFP-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200m-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2D-ljet2p.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2100M-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1300-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1300-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1200-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1015-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_950C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_930C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_880C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_842C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_832C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_810C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_697C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_600-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1120C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1100C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1000C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_ColorPro_CAD-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_4500-pxlmono.ppd.gz


Yeah! That's the ticket! Sorry, but the big change will come from proprietary device drivers that people routinely install when they buy a device and it includes custom Preferences, Utilities people rarely, if ever use.

Custom nibs and moving all read-only print copies of documentation [pdf.gz/ps.gz] is standard on Linux, FreeBSD and other less known platforms.

Previewer.app, Acrobat should all be capable of reading these compressed read-only documents without the need to extract them.

Third parties will be late to cleaning it up in their applications.

Ultimately, hard drives with a lot of documentation laying around isn't something I'm frustated with, but applications with unnecessaryily bundled nibs and much more inside those bundles I definitely will welcome.

We never had this problem at NeXT because our QuadFat Applications weren't all in a single bundle.

The bundle is a nice solution when they couldn't finally nail down a streamlined and guaranteed clean installer/uninstaller solution for applications on the system.

Of course, much of the size of Apple Bundles in their applications will be reduced due to the applications not duplicating system frameworks/private frameworks and more.

Then again, if 3rd party app developers don't leverage those reusable frameworks in Snow Leopard their app bundles will still be quite beefy.
post #11 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

The whole concept is that SL will immediately search and obtain drivers for new wired and wireless printers as they're connected to a Mac running SL. So the only issue would be printing to a new printer in the absence of an internet connection to query SW Update.

That's not the problem. Sometimes I have to print to a file (or softproof) using a printer driver or profile for a comp. Without having the actual printer, how would I easily obtain that profile and driver?

I would have to search for that and bother installing them.

It's not too difficult, but it would be an annoyance that isn't there now.
post #12 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

Yep. I am encouraged with the consolidation of system design for 10.6 that localization has been redesigned as well.
post #13 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's not the problem. Sometimes I have to print to a file (or softproof) using a printer driver or profile for a comp. Without having the actual printer, how would I easily obtain that profile and driver?

I would have to search for that and bother installing them.

It's not too difficult, but it would be an annoyance that isn't there now.

I imagine the foomatic list of PPDs will be included in the DVD, just not installed with CUPS.

Of course, as I said, PPDs are tiny. They aren't the problem.
post #14 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

I imagine the foomatic list of PPDs will be included in the DVD, just not installed with CUPS.

Of course, as I said, PPDs are tiny. They aren't the problem.

The PPD's are only part of the problem. The software and paper profiles for my Canon iPF5100, for example, take up about 30 MB.
post #15 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Don't most of us do this already??

Whenever I do a fresh install of Leopard or earlier, I always only check the print drivers for the printers in my home, only Epson.

The next step is to not install the Epson ones either and go to the Epson website to download the driver for your particular brand of printer.

The Canon driver for my printer is ~30MB, OS X wants me to install ~200MB of files to use it.

I think not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Only downside I see is when working in an environment w/o internet access, and you need the driver.

Hoping you can pre-install what you need.

I imagine all the drivers will be on the DVD, cause otherwise there wouldn't be any point tailoring the install for your printer if there wasn't a decent pool of no drivers to start with.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

Mac OS 8.5.1 does, use that instead.

Hopefully Apple will review. It made sense as a cost cutting measure as Apple got back to good financial health, but now they must have a big enough UK installed base to justify it.
post #16 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's not the problem. Sometimes I have to print to a file (or softproof) using a printer driver or profile for a comp. Without having the actual printer, how would I easily obtain that profile and driver?

I would have to search for that and bother installing them.

It's not too difficult, but it would be an annoyance that isn't there now.

I wonder if all of the drivers are included on install disk, but not installed by default. Then you would just need to customize your install.
post #17 of 89
If they do allow localization to be added in real time that would be awesome.

its currently a pain for developers to handle localization. Currently you have to either have several builds for each app in different languages or you have this massive download with all the localizations. its not great.

so ideally an app would be embedded with a url to check a server for additional localizations at first or succeeding launch. localizations could then be updated without having to rev the entire app. would be awesome.
post #18 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

Uh, because on October 19, 1781, General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.
post #19 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kasper View Post

The whole concept is that SL will immediately search and obtain drivers for new wired and wireless printers as they're connected to a Mac running SL. So the only issue would be printing to a new printer in the absence of an internet connection to query SW Update.

Ok, 3rd time I've seen this argument so I gotta respond.

Your printer came with disks, on those disks is a driver. Pop the disk in your CD-ROM & install those drivers. Boom, all done! Of course who is to say that the install disk won't have all existing drivers on it that you can download. They're trimming the footprint of the OS, not the install disk.

Still need internet to get latest & greatest but how is that any different from now? Seriously people.
post #20 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbonner View Post

Only downside I see is when working in an environment w/o internet access, and you need the driver.

Hoping you can pre-install what you need.

That was exactly the final straw that broke me away from Windows. After years of issues with windows, I ended up with a new laptop with vista, could not print and also could not connect to the Internet. I desperately needed to print and ended up buying a new router just to get hold of the drivers from the net. I swore then to switch.

So it's makes me wary to see that same scenario looming in this feature.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

Reply
post #21 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

Download monolingual. It will remove unwanted languages and saves space.
post #22 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Uh, because on October 19, 1781, General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.

post #23 of 89
That's Thinking Different
Apple had me at scrolling
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Apple had me at scrolling
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post #24 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

That was exactly the final straw that broke me away from Windows. After years of issues with windows, I ended up with a new laptop with vista, could not print and also could not connect to the Internet. I desperately needed to print and ended up buying a new router just to get hold of the drivers from the net. I swore then to switch.

So it's makes me wary to see that same scenario looming in this feature.

Except (at least in my experience) it's a tad easier getting online within OS X than Windows Vista, especially over WiFi.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #25 of 89
This could be troublesome on the road at hotel business centers and such. I run a for-profit business center in a luxury resort, and the Macs have always been the easiest to plug into a printer via USB and be printing in seconds with no user interaction at all needed. Windows either doesn't have the driver, requires user interaction, and sometimes fails completely. The printers are standard HP LaserJets.

If the Macs aren't going to come with the drivers, then users will need to first connect to the Internet. And since we charge for Internet in the business center, they would need to pay for that as well. In my case, I would of course waive the charge for Internet access just to load a driver.

Of course, they could also just use a driver CD (unless they have a Macbook Air) in which case they could load from our USB Flash/Thumb drive.

The main point I want to make is that it won't be a simple plug-and-play situation anymore.

- Daniel
post #26 of 89
Ahhhhh

First printer drivers ..next SU for 3rd party applications.
He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #27 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

that is annoying. considering how many countries use british english, it seems bizarre. i think it was in the days of OS9 that apple ditched 'english for the rest of us' in their choices for the operating system and nothing has been done to remedy this since then....

it shouldn't be that big a deal to implement it.
post #28 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Uh, because on October 19, 1781, General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.

but canadians burnt down the white house in 1814... so how about it, eh?
post #29 of 89
I think this is a good first step. Next I hope they purge all the un necessary languages from their application bundles. Even though you can choose to not install languages with OS X, their apps are still bloated big time with other languages which take up a huge amount of space.
post #30 of 89
Well chances are even if Apple does cut down on the drivers, there will still be a small handful of generic drivers installed. Does anyone know whether laser printers can provide the PPD that are needed to configure them?
post #31 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post


Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Uh, because on October 19, 1781, General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.

It might be worth noting that "US English" is a bastardisation of "English". This isn't an insult, I actually like the phonetic theories employed in "US English", it makes sense, though it isnt really "English".

I have to agree that it is frustrating to be unable to spell "realise" with the "s" instead of a "z" without getting that annoying red squiggle under it. There are many words like this, and for some that are more difficult it would be good to be able to spell check the "English" version.

All english speaking countries outside the US (yes, there are many) speak "English", so it should be catered for.
post #32 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkVsTheWorld View Post

I have to agree that it is frustrating to be unable to spell "realise" with the "s" instead of a "z" without getting that annoying red squiggle under it. There are many words like this, and for some that are more difficult it would be good to be able to spell check the "English" version.

All english speaking countries outside the US (yes, there are many) speak "English", so it should be catered for.

If you're talking about spell-checking, in the Language list of the 'International' System Preferences just move 'British English' to the top of the list. Now you can type 'raise' without the squiggle.

Originally I thought the reference was to actual OS language and not just spell-checking.
post #33 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

I wonder if all of the drivers are included on install disk, but not installed by default. Then you would just need to customize your install.

A lot of them are, but not always the latest, and never paper profiles and the like.

Usually though, the ones I need are there.
post #34 of 89
This is a LONG delayed feature that honestly Windows should have packed with it in XP. Windows has the largest market, so all hardware companies want to make sure they have the drivers for it, meaning Microsoft has access to the most robust database of drivers to download via an updater. But at the current moment I would say that Ubuntu has the best driver support when hardware is rarely build with linux in mind!

Its about time coporate America.
post #35 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by danielmaui View Post

This could be troublesome on the road at hotel business centers and such. I run a for-profit business center in a luxury resort, and the Macs have always been the easiest to plug into a printer via USB and be printing in seconds with no user interaction at all needed. Windows either doesn't have the driver, requires user interaction, and sometimes fails completely. The printers are standard HP LaserJets.

If the Macs aren't going to come with the drivers, then users will need to first connect to the Internet. And since we charge for Internet in the business center, they would need to pay for that as well. In my case, I would of course waive the charge for Internet access just to load a driver.

Of course, they could also just use a driver CD (unless they have a Macbook Air) in which case they could load from our USB Flash/Thumb drive.

The main point I want to make is that it won't be a simple plug-and-play situation anymore.

- Daniel

I would hope that they would allow the option of having the drivers loaded at installation if we so desired.
post #36 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

but canadians burnt down the white house in 1814... so how about it, eh?

But we saved England during WW II,so why bother?
post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas View Post

Well chances are even if Apple does cut down on the drivers, there will still be a small handful of generic drivers installed. Does anyone know whether laser printers can provide the PPD that are needed to configure them?

You can find most profiles with Gutenprint:

http://openprinting.org/show_driver....ver=gutenprint

The DMG for OS X: http://gimp-print.sourceforge.net/MacOSX.php

What's also interesting is how Foomatic and OpenPrinting is coming along with CUPS. How this effects OS X most likely will be the convergence of PDF workflows.

Now, from the Foomatic 4.0.0 announcement that though it is at the Linux Foundation [OpenPrinting/Cups is very much Apple inclusive].

http://forums.linux-foundation.org/r...p?21,8139,8139

Foomatic OS X: http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Op...acOSX/foomatic

From the article you have a reference to the new CUPS 1.4 PPD Spec where suddenly you'll find some interesting answers to your question(s).

http://www.cups.org/documentation.ph.../spec-ppd.html

You also get a link to the standard overview and how it impacts printing.

OpenPrinting/PDF as standard Print Job Format

http://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Op...int_Job_Format

-------------

There is a lot of information to research on OpenPrinting and CUPS. With Apple owning and extending CUPS in OS X moving forward, you can expect a lot of work within both communities [Linux & OS X] to overlap with differences being at the appkit levels for their various desktop environments.
post #38 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by KindredMac View Post

Don't most of us do this already??

Whenever I do a fresh install of Leopard or earlier, I always only check the print drivers for the printers in my home, only Epson. Why would I need Lexmark or HP or Canon drivers? I never print wirelessly when out and about so no worries there about running into a strange printer on a network.

I tended to forget, it's a button that just doesn't catch my eye when it shows up.

As an aside, I hate to type in all the registration crap that the OS X installer requires, is there a way to by pass that? That just puts me off of trying to do an OS install. I'm much better off making a small partition a clean OS install and cloning it when I need to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hezekiahb View Post

Ok, 3rd time I've seen this argument so I gotta respond.

Your printer came with disks, on those disks is a driver. Pop the disk in your CD-ROM & install those drivers. Boom, all done! Of course who is to say that the install disk won't have all existing drivers on it that you can download. They're trimming the footprint of the OS, not the install disk.

Still need internet to get latest & greatest but how is that any different from now? Seriously people.

I don't know about you, but for me, the manufacturer generally tends to include crap for drivers, and they tend to install odd helper apps that I usually don't want. Usually those drivers are about a year out of date even when I buy the printer new, and use an installer that looks like it somehow managed to survive since the OS 9 days. I'd generally rather use the plain CUPS drivers if possible.
post #39 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Ahhhhh

First printer drivers ..next SU for 3rd party applications.

One could only hope. I've been waiting for 3rd party software support in Software Update for years now!

I know some people are gonna laugh but, what about people on dialup still? They are not gonna try and download an 80 MB printer driver on dialup. So I agree, they should still include them on the installer DVD, just make it so no printer drivers install by default. Or they could somehow look at what printers are connected during the installation and install them from the DVD as its installing OS X.
post #40 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post

Mac OS 8.5.1 does, use that instead.

Hopefully Apple will review. It made sense as a cost cutting measure as Apple got back to good financial health, but now they must have a big enough UK installed base to justify it.

I still remember going to help someone with their Mac many years ago and seeing the Wastebasket on their desktop.

I sympathize with all those who would like a more localized Mac experience and understand the market in the UK is larger than Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland put together. However, whether they like it or not, the people of the UK can understand how to use a computer running US English.

If Apple wants to be the leader of the 21st century they really need system-wide support for Arabic plus the major languages of southern Asia and eastern Europe.
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