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Apple's Snow Leopard to load printer drivers on demand - Page 2

post #41 of 89
2/9/09 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

That was exactly the final straw that broke me away from Windows. After years of issues with windows, I ended up with a new laptop with vista, could not print and also could not connect to the Internet. I desperately needed to print and ended up buying a new router just to get hold of the drivers from the net. I swore then to switch.

So it's makes me wary to see that same scenario looming in this feature.

Let me get this straight. It's Microsoft's fault that you didn't have internet access and you are the idiot that went out and bought a brand new router to get a fricking driver?

Either you live in a box or you know no one on the planet that you could have gone to and used their computer. Either way, you shouldn't be using a computer Mac or PC.
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post #42 of 89
2/9/09 at 4:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

PPD files are small.

Binary proprietary files are bloated and large. That's HP and it's custom applications which are massive and unneeded, unless you have a device [scanner/print/fax] that requires certain applications to inter-operate with the device.

Otherwise, a straight PPD for a printer is puny.

Here is a list of Brother PPD files:

mdriftmeyer@horus:/usr/share/ppd/foomatic-rip/openprinting-gs-builtin/Brother$ ls -rhlt
total 184K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5170DN-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1240-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-DCP-8045D-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-MFC-9600-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-720-hl7x0.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-7050-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5250DN-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5150D-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5140-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5070N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5050-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5040-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5040-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-5030-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-4Ve-laserjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-4050CDN-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2460-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2400CeN-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.8K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2400CeN-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2060-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-2060-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.5K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1870N-hl1250.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1850-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.6K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1670N-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.7K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1650-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1470N-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1450-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1430-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.4K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1270N-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1260-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1260-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.3K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1250-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-HL-1050-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:40 Brother-DCP-8045D-hl7x0.ppd.gz

Here for HP:

mdriftmeyer@horus:/usr/share/ppd/foomatic-rip/openprinting-gs-builtin/HP$ ls -rhlt
total 592K
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_R80-cdj1600.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_940C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5000-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1315-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1100-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P100-pjxl300.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PaintJet-pj.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_R45-deskjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_Pro_1175C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_G95-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_500-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_300-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_300-djet500.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_Plus-ljetplus.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_9000-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_6-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4Si-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4ML-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4M-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4100-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4000-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3P_w_PCL5-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3310_MFP-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3300_MFP-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2-laserjet.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1220-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1220-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1100A-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_990C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_980C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_955C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_932C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_882C-cdj850.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_850C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_815C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_810C-cdj670.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_722C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_712C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_694C-cdj550.upp.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.0K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_690C-cdj670.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_680C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_610C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_400-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_350C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_310-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1600CM-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_750C_Plus-dnj650c.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_5500-chp2200.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5-cljet5.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_5500-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_2500-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-2500CM-Postscript.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1215-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-PhotoSmart_P1100-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_T45-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_LX-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_635-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-OfficeJet_330-djet500.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_8150-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_5Si-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.4K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4ML-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4M-ljet4d.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.8K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4050-pxlmono.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_4050-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3320N_MFP-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200m-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_3200-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2D-ljet2p.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_2100M-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1300-lj5gray.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.3K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1300-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1200-ljet4.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 4.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-LaserJet_1015-lj4dith.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_950C-cdj970.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_930C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_880C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_842C-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_832C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.9K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_810C-cdj880.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_697C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.1K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_600-cdj550.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.6K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1120C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.7K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1100C-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 6.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DeskJet_1000C-pnm2ppa.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 5.5K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-DesignJet_ColorPro_CAD-pcl3.ppd.gz
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 3.2K 2008-12-01 06:41 HP-Color_LaserJet_4500-pxlmono.ppd.gz


Yeah! That's the ticket! Sorry, but the big change will come from proprietary device drivers that people routinely install when they buy a device and it includes custom Preferences, Utilities people rarely, if ever use.

Custom nibs and moving all read-only print copies of documentation [pdf.gz/ps.gz] is standard on Linux, FreeBSD and other less known platforms.

Previewer.app, Acrobat should all be capable of reading these compressed read-only documents without the need to extract them.

Third parties will be late to cleaning it up in their applications.

Ultimately, hard drives with a lot of documentation laying around isn't something I'm frustated with, but applications with unnecessaryily bundled nibs and much more inside those bundles I definitely will welcome.

We never had this problem at NeXT because our QuadFat Applications weren't all in a single bundle.

The bundle is a nice solution when they couldn't finally nail down a streamlined and guaranteed clean installer/uninstaller solution for applications on the system.

Of course, much of the size of Apple Bundles in their applications will be reduced due to the applications not duplicating system frameworks/private frameworks and more.

Then again, if 3rd party app developers don't leverage those reusable frameworks in Snow Leopard their app bundles will still be quite beefy.

Of course, I think it was a mistake to make packages directories. The Java method of using the "zip" file format makes a lot more sense, and you could easily have applied compression. You could also easily transfer them on the network. Of course wasted unused languages and nibs are nice to eliminate, but more could be done...
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post #43 of 89
2/9/09 at 4:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I sympathize with all those who would like a more localized Mac experience and understand the market in the UK is larger than Denmark, Norway, Sweden and Finland put together. However, whether they like it or not, the people of the UK can understand how to use a computer running US English.

To be honest, the only time it bothers me is when spell-checkers get shirty with me (hello iPhone!). While I confess to hacking my dock to make the label say Wastebasket, that's more for nostalgic reasons than because of the language. Most Americanisms in menus and stuff are a non-issue compared to the things Apple could spend their time fixing.

Amorya
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post #44 of 89
2/9/09 at 4:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

That's not the problem. Sometimes I have to print to a file (or softproof) using a printer driver or profile for a comp. Without having the actual printer, how would I easily obtain that profile and driver?

I would have to search for that and bother installing them.

It's not too difficult, but it would be an annoyance that isn't there now.

I suspect you'll still be able to install drivers manually if you wish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkVsTheWorld View Post

It might be worth noting that "US English" is a bastardisation of "English". This isn't an insult, I actually like the phonetic theories employed in "US English", it makes sense, though it isnt really "English".

I have to agree that it is frustrating to be unable to spell "realise" with the "s" instead of a "z" without getting that annoying red squiggle under it. There are many words like this, and for some that are more difficult it would be good to be able to spell check the "English" version.

All english speaking countries outside the US (yes, there are many) speak "English", so it should be catered for.

Actually, the research I've read says that U.S. English is closer to English as it existed in the 18th century than British English is. Yours has drifted more than ours.
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post #45 of 89
2/9/09 at 5:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, the research I've read says that U.S. English is closer to English as it existed in the 18th century than British English is. Yours has drifted more than ours.

I think maybe you're recalling an article about certain villages in the Appalachian mountains that don't have much contact with the outside world, but I can't find that article to be sure. I did find an interesting article on PBS's site: http://www.pbs.org/speak/ahead/change/ruining/

The language has changed so much in the past millennium, and has so many influences from other languages that the idea of a pure English or real English is as spurious as the idea of eugenics. English itself is a bastardization or mixed breed of several languages, that's how it was formed, the idea of a pure mixed breed can only be pushed so far before it just falls apart.
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post #46 of 89
2/9/09 at 5:44pm
Whatever disk space we might reclaim as a result of Apple's diligence will be used right up again when the next Adobe installer dumps its truckload of elephant shit. Oh well.
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post #47 of 89
2/9/09 at 5:53pm
The installer DVD should have as much available as possible if that's the only option available for the user (ie. no net connection and/or traveling). But even the CD that comes with the printer itself is often useless if it doesn't contain the latest drivers. Just about every time I've bought a new printer I check the version on the CD against the manufacturer's support site (assuming it's at all navigable) and find that I have to download later versions anyway. So I'd rather see a consolidated and consistent method for getting those in the first place, and skip physical media altogether (except for the standalone case with no network.)

Furthermore, Apple should impose some discipline and common sense among the printer companies. I remember installing a Canon ink-jet where you had to download an installer (in a frigging .dmg.hqx.zip wrapper!) which then unloaded itself and left yet another installer on the desktop. THIS installer then took a separate payload package and disbursed everything within /Library. Who writes these installers? Chimps?
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post #48 of 89
2/9/09 at 5:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

The installer DVD should have as much available as possible if that's the only option available for the user (ie. no net connection and/or traveling). But even the CD that comes with the printer itself is often useless if it doesn't contain the latest drivers. Just about every time I've bought a new printer I check the version on the CD against the manufacturer's support site (assuming it's at all navigable) and find that I have to download later versions anyway. So I'd rather see a consolidated and consistent method for getting those in the first place, and skip physical media altogether (except for the standalone case with no network.)

Furthermore, Apple should impose some discipline and common sense among the printer companies. I remember installing a Canon ink-jet where you had to download an installer (in a frigging .dmg.hqx.zip wrapper!) which then unloaded itself and left yet another installer on the desktop. THIS installer then took a separate payload package and disbursed everything within /Library. Who writes these installers? Chimps?

Yes, Apple should enforce some standard on their Printer drivers. So those ugly stupid printer manufacture get their act together.
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post #49 of 89
2/9/09 at 5:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

Whatever disk space we might reclaim as a result of Apple's diligence will be used right up again when the next Adobe installer dumps its truckload of elephant shit. Oh well.

Then Don't use Adobe products and you can quit bitching, if you continue to use them then you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I personally think they are the best out there for the graphics community and think CS4 is the best suite of software on my computer.
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post #50 of 89
2/9/09 at 6:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOldTimer View Post

Then Don't use Adobe products and you can quit bitching, if you continue to use them then you have nobody to blame but yourself.

I personally think they are the best out there for the graphics community and think CS4 is the best suite of software on my computer.

The software may be quite capable, but the installers from Adobe are horrible. First, they use that god-awful VICE installer nonsense, and they smear their support files everywhere like a baby with a jar of chocolate syrup. I can only imagine what the file structure on the corporate servers within Adobe must look like...
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post #51 of 89
2/9/09 at 6:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

The software may be quite capable, but the installers from Adobe are horrible. First, they use that god-awful VICE installer nonsense, and they smear their support files everywhere like a baby with a jar of chocolate syrup. I can only imagine what the file structure on the corporate servers within Adobe must look like...

Then don't use them or go to an Adobe forum to post your feelings. This particular forum is on print drivers on demand in SL not Adobe Installers.
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post #52 of 89
2/9/09 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Of course, I think it was a mistake to make packages directories. The Java method of using the "zip" file format makes a lot more sense, and you could easily have applied compression. You could also easily transfer them on the network. Of course wasted unused languages and nibs are nice to eliminate, but more could be done...

Especially in the small office/enterprise where networked /LocalApps with NeXT meant you didn't install any software on your system, other than developer tools and the operating system.

All applications were mirrored on network servers and you launched the executable which used your system resources and none of the disk space to store documentation, localization packages, executables--everything that is a bundle.
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post #53 of 89
2/9/09 at 8:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, the research I've read says that U.S. English is closer to English as it existed in the 18th century than British English is. Yours has drifted more than ours.

I have heard that too. The z's that Americans use are closer to what English originally was, whereas the s's used by the English are due to French influence. Americans also use English measurements and English use French ones (kilometer = fail).
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post #54 of 89
2/9/09 at 9:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mariofreak85 View Post

I wonder if all of the drivers are included on install disk, but not installed by default. Then you would just need to customize your install.

I'm wondering if one of Apple's goals with the shrinkage of SL is to allow it to fit on an 8GB USB flash drive. This would allow for smaller packaging while decreasing the installation time considerably. There would be an additional cost over DL-DVD media, but with the general shunning of an optical media that Apple appears to be following, this would be the next step, though perhaps jumping the gun just a bit.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #55 of 89
2/9/09 at 10:29pm
Besides purging gigantic amounts of space-wasting printer drivers, I archive off-line Library stuff like Application Support iDVD Themes, Audio files for iLife and Garage Band, Dictionaries for foreign languages. Its amazing how much space this unused stuff takes up, probably at least 5-6 GB. It doesn't matter for the average user of course, but I do weekly off-site bare-metal backups.
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post #56 of 89
2/9/09 at 10:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

but canadians burnt down the white house in 1814... so how about it, eh?

Where the hell were they these last eight years when we needed them?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #57 of 89
2/9/09 at 10:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Actually, the research I've read says that U.S. English is closer to English as it existed in the 18th century than British English is. Yours has drifted more than ours.



Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I have heard that too. The z's that Americans use are closer to what English originally was, whereas the s's used by the English are due to French influence. Americans also use English measurements and English use French ones (kilometer = fail).

I left the UK twenty years ago to live in the US. When I flew back last year landing at Manchester I couldn't understand a word anyone said anymore. I think it must have drifted a lot faster recently!
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #58 of 89
2/9/09 at 11:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Where the hell were they these last eight years when we needed them?

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post #59 of 89
2/9/09 at 11:56pm
I think it's interesting that on this thread we're talking about saving some tens of MB's, possibly a couple of hundred, while on the ZFS thread, we're talking about "wasting" tens of GB's, possibly hundreds.

How's that for irony?
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post #60 of 89
2/10/09 at 12:46am
I would hope that apple just defaults to not installing excess printer drivers and language packages, but lets you customize your install to opt in for all the drivers/languages you need.
Afterwards software update should take care that your printer drivers are up to date.
And when you plug in a new printer it should check the internet for the latest drivers as those distributed on the disks are mostly out of date already.
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post #61 of 89
2/10/09 at 2:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post

Uh, because on October 19, 1781, General Lord Cornwallis surrendered at Yorktown.

obviously the concept of localisation goes over your head
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

nagromme - According to Amazon: "SpongBob Typing Tutor" is outselling Windows
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post #62 of 89
2/10/09 at 2:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But we saved England during WW II,so why bother?

Only on film.
I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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I don't see how an anti M$ stance can be seen as a bad thing on an Apple forum I really can't!

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post #63 of 89
2/10/09 at 3:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

One of the things that annoys me about an OS X install is it spends ages loading umpteen foreign languages which Im never going to needs yet it still doesnt support British English

I couldn't agree more.
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post #64 of 89
2/10/09 at 3:23am
I did what Nutts (who is hardly that) suggested:

I opened System Preferences [this is Leopard]; clicked on 'International', and the 'Language' tab was foremost by default.

In the list on the left, it simply said 'English' at the top... but when I clicked the 'Edit List' button ~ my goodness: a long list which had a bunch of languages checked... and a larger number unchecked.

'English' comes third down, but it must be that thing called 'International English'... because, further down ~ unchecked on my machine ~ I found 'Australian English', 'British English', 'Canadian English' [I didn't know there was one] and 'U.S. English'.

Years on, I'm still discovering things on my Mac. \
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post #65 of 89
2/10/09 at 4:12am
Why don't they just leave them on the install disc, but make it a separate process from the OS install?
[center] "Hey look, it's in the center. I am SO cool!"[/center]
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[center] "Hey look, it's in the center. I am SO cool!"[/center]
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post #66 of 89
2/10/09 at 4:13am
A super side effect of this will be the mega-quick Snowy Leo installation time.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #67 of 89
2/10/09 at 4:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by m2002brian View Post

Why don't they just leave them on the install disc, but make it a separate process from the OS install?

Because there's no need.

DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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DaHarder just got banned. Let's crack open the champagne.

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post #68 of 89
2/10/09 at 4:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

But we saved England during WW II,so why bother?

Hmmm, well I suppose it could be argued that the Nazis would have developed weapons of mass destruction before the US without the British keeping them occupied long before the US showed up and history might have been slightly different.

Of course the British also kind of invented the first computer which I suppose caused this discussion in the first place, in a roundabout way!

Printer drivers for Colossus were probably a pain also!
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post #69 of 89
2/10/09 at 5:41am
As someone who doesn't own a printer I have stripped all these print drivers already. But I have come across times when I've needed to print, if the printer is PostScript compatible (majority are) then OS X can print to it using the Generic PostScript driver.
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post #70 of 89
2/10/09 at 5:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Hue Carroll View Post

I did what Nutts (who is hardly that) suggested:

I opened System Preferences [this is Leopard]; clicked on 'International', and the 'Language' tab was foremost by default.

In the list on the left, it simply said 'English' at the top... but when I clicked the 'Edit List' button ~ my goodness: a long list which had a bunch of languages checked... and a larger number unchecked.

'English' comes third down, but it must be that thing called 'International English'... because, further down ~ unchecked on my machine ~ I found 'Australian English', 'British English', 'Canadian English' [I didn't know there was one] and 'U.S. English'.

Years on, I'm still discovering things on my Mac. \

The options have been there basically from day one.

Unfortunately, most of the dumb asses here can't read or understand English or their home laguage.

Then there are those that think that Apple is going to introduce an install disk that only lets you install drivers for printers that are only currently connected or only 'official' languages in the country that you are residing in.

Worse yet, are those that think that Apple is going to press SL install disks customized by country to reduce the size a few MBs or even GBs. Just how stupid are they?

Cripes, the first option you can choose when you install Leopard or any Mac OS is your Language!
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post #71 of 89
2/10/09 at 5:59am
in a pinch - when traveling - if you do not have a needed print driver - you could print to PDF instead and then transfer that file to a computer which is connected to a print and print from PDF (transfer being via either USB stick or emailed to yourself - of course if you can email to yourself you can connect to the internet and get a device driver).
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post #72 of 89
2/10/09 at 6:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I have heard that too. The z's that Americans use are closer to what English originally was, whereas the s's used by the English are due to French influence. Americans also use English measurements and English use French ones (kilometer = fail).

As an American mechanical engineer, I'll take SI Units over English every damn time.
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post #73 of 89
2/10/09 at 6:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

As an American mechanical engineer, I'll take SI Units over English every damn time.

In that case may I offer you this plate of snails for your personal enjoyment.
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post #74 of 89
2/10/09 at 6:51am
This is why people should do a custom OSX installation, removing whatever foreign language fonts and printer drivers they don't need.

For languages, I just leave English.

For printers, I leave HP (I only buy HP printers) and the open source multi-printer drivers (CUPS or whatever it is now) in case I plug in something non-HP.

I always rip the extras out.
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post #75 of 89
2/10/09 at 7:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

In that case may I offer you this plate of snails for your personal enjoyment.

Well if you do want to be consistent then you should have all your prices in base 12
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post #76 of 89
2/10/09 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by abrooks View Post

As someone who doesn't own a printer I have stripped all these print drivers already. But I have come across times when I've needed to print, if the printer is PostScript compatible (majority are) then OS X can print to it using the Generic PostScript driver.

I suppose life would be a bit better without printers, though there's no way I can do that. Even if the only thing I printed were shipping labels, it's worth using.

I thought PostScript compatible printers are quite a bit more expensive than the ones that aren't I know two or three of my printers are PS printers, but I don't think the others are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

In that case may I offer you this plate of snails for your personal enjoyment.

I suppose you liked it when you knew there were two hogsheads to a fortnight, but SI units are more consistent. It's a good system, it doesn't make any sense reject it out of racism or whatever ugly -ism that would be because you can't separate an idea from the people and look at it objectively.
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post #77 of 89
2/10/09 at 8:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

Of course, I think it was a mistake to make packages directories. The Java method of using the "zip" file format makes a lot more sense, and you could easily have applied compression. You could also easily transfer them on the network. Of course wasted unused languages and nibs are nice to eliminate, but more could be done...

The reason that packages aren't compressed in some way is two-fold:

1) In order to load executable content into memory it has to have a 1-to-1 mapping between memory and disk. This is so the virtual memory system can deal with it. This assumption in built into a lot of places in the kernel and so would take a lot of work to unwind. I am all in favor of this work being done, but with drive sizes increasing as fast as they have I can easily think of other places I would rather the kernel developer's time being used.

2) Bundles can contain Bundles, so you would wind up with a Russian doll problem of how you would compress all of that, and without some complicated machinery you would have to run multiple decompression rounds to get things buried a few levels deep.

Now all that being said: Apple seems to be looking in that direction since they have started putting data files into archives. The new "flat-file" pkg format was the first (the old style bundle stuffed into a XAR), and with the latest version of iWork the output is a ZIP-encoded bundle. However, the implementations have left me wanting.

I would have much rather that they fully used the XAR format in pkg's so that I could have used tools to go in and examine (and replace) individual files in the package format, and there are some very interesting things that could have been added to pkg's with that idea. I also wish that they had chosen XAR for iWork. I know ZIP is more widespread, but there is an open implementation of XAR, and you can just do so many more things with it.
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post #78 of 89
2/10/09 at 9:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Hue Carroll View Post

I did what Nutts (who is hardly that) suggested:

I opened System Preferences [this is Leopard]; clicked on 'International', and the 'Language' tab was foremost by default.

In the list on the left, it simply said 'English' at the top... but when I clicked the 'Edit List' button ~ my goodness: a long list which had a bunch of languages checked... and a larger number unchecked.

'English' comes third down, but it must be that thing called 'International English'... because, further down ~ unchecked on my machine ~ I found 'Australian English', 'British English', 'Canadian English' [I didn't know there was one] and 'U.S. English'.

Years on, I'm still discovering things on my Mac. \

Here in the US Macs may soon start up in Spanish and we'll have to 'press one' for even US English let alone UK English
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #79 of 89
2/10/09 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

Whatever disk space we might reclaim as a result of Apple's diligence will be used right up again when the next Adobe installer dumps its truckload of elephant shit. Oh well.



I for one would love Apple to bring out a Pro end rival suit for Photoshop, Illustrator and InDesign ... I dumped all M$ software next I'd love to dump all Adobe too. At one time Premiere ruled on Mac (the level below Avid and Matrox that is) and then came FCPro. Apple could do it.
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #80 of 89
2/10/09 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I suppose life would be a bit better without printers, though there's no way I can do that. ....

I can imagine one day not too far off, a material used by FedEx et al for label (just one example) that can form text and graphics sent wirelessly and then be digitally locked. Then unlocked with the right key and reused. Consumer versions would be close behind ... reusable 'paper' if you will. Oops ... I've got to stop reading Harry Potter books
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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