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Apple seeks user feedback on Apple TV - Page 3

post #81 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Yes please don't put any stock into my Blu-ray opinion because i'm still bitter (hey at least I honest about it).

Why would I put stock in when you have an obvious bias. If it makes you feel any better, I don't trust anything Steve Jobs says about Blu-Ray either since he also has an obvious bias against with iTunes/AppleTV trying to compete against it.

Quote:
Blu-Ray is great for those classic movies with fantastic audio and video but we're on the precipice of 2010 and we still cannot deliver movies safely without a plastic disc/dongle?

It's not just about "safely" delivering movies. It's also about delivering them in a practical manner. I think the last statistic I saw showed a U.S. broadband adoption rate of about 60%. Do you really think the studios want to drop disc formats and in the process lose at least 40% of their potential customers. And the term broadband covers all sorts of speeds so even the 768kbps/1.5Mbps DSL speeds still qualify as broadband and at those speeds a downloaded movie could take days to download.

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I'm at the point where I realize that HDD space is becoming the least limiting factor to my media experience. With 2TB drives available soon it'll be only a scant few years before the typical enthusiast has an 8TB media collection.

Last time I checked, 1TB drives were averaging $100, so your 8TB system would currently cost around $800. And for all that money, what have you ended up with? Basically a bunch of empty shelves. For that much money, you could bury the axe and buy a Blu-Ray player and around 25 movies. Which seems like a better investment? But feel free to sit around and wait for those 2TB drives to come out and then wait even longer for them to be sold at affordable prices.

Quote:
Yes Blu-ray holds a lot of data but it's been shown (on HD DVD) that a movie can be delivered with fantastic sound and video at under 15GB of data. Once you strip out the unecessary soundtracks and other junk you have a movie that's pretty svelte.

And it's also been shown that trying to compress a movie into that small a space has required downgrading video and/or audio quality (for example, the inability to fit a lossless audio track on the Transformers HD DVD even using a 30GB disc). And it seems like most HD DVD's came on 30GB discs so I'm not really sure how much stock I put in your 15GB comment.
post #82 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post



Hopefully Apple are finally going to take the hint!

This slot could be used to play users existing DVD collections, which is very important. It also gives people the opportunity to ditch their bulky DVD player and have a neater setup than they had prior to buying Apple TV. The last thing people want it *another* box under their TV. Apple then can add a subscription TV Show service so users can even ditch their cable/digital TV box from under their TV also. Apple then make a TV with this box and DVD drive built-in, and user could have *zero* boxes under their TV. If necessasary people can then plug in their super sound system, but that would be it!

One more thing; widgets for weather, TV guide etc., and live sports and news as an optional extra.

My job is done here


For the DVD drive, forget that, this is the past. It's like asking Apple to put a floppy drive in the iMac

You did not read my post at 12:55 today??
post #83 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by caliminius View Post



And it's also been shown that trying to compress a movie into that small a space has required downgrading video and/or audio quality (for example, the inability to fit a lossless audio track on the Transformers HD DVD even using a 30GB disc). And it seems like most HD DVD's came on 30GB discs so I'm not really sure how much stock I put in your 15GB comment.



And it's also been shown that the film rent on the Apple TV in HD is about 4 to 5 GB and I see no difference in quality with a Blue Ray film.

I mean the film in HD rent from the ATV not on your computer in iTunes brcause there is no HD in iTunes from the computer. You need to order on the Apple TV to get the real HD version.

And believe me, I made the test with the same film on the same TV (batman), one from a blue Ray and one from the Apple TV and I see no difference.
post #84 of 181
Any removal of the horrid stack of mismatched electronics and wiring next to my TV set would sell me.
Add DVR, large storage and slingbox like streaming to my iphone and ill take 2.
post #85 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

For the DVD drive, forget that, this is the past. It's like asking Apple to put a floppy drive in the iMac

You did not read my post at 12:55 today??

Why should anyone? DVD is still a bigger industry than Apple is, at least it was last year, Apple is still growing, but it is definitely far bigger than Apple's iTunes video/movie business.
post #86 of 181
Well as of Tuesday morning at 7:30am Central US time, the survey is closed. Wonder if it was ever supposed to be there!
post #87 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by gigi View Post

And believe me, I made the test with the same film on the same TV (batman), one from a blue Ray and one from the Apple TV and I see no difference.

Maybe there is something wrong with your tv then. I can definitely tell the difference between appletv HD rented movie and the blu-ray version. The rented version from Apple looks as good as a DVD... but no better.
post #88 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post

You're 100% wrong about Hollywood, they absolutely WANT digital downloads as their distribution medium.

1. Costs are a fraction of Blu-ray and DVD distribution.

Sometimes I wonder if that's a really big deal. Replication costs aren't that much, and when discs are stored and shipped, that is in bulk quantities. I don't know anything about the expenses with respect to bandwidth costs for moving a couple gigabytes per customer using a content distribution network, last I heard a figure, it was surprisingly high for internet data. I've since forgotten that figure.

Quote:
2. No extras necessary (some of the extras on a special edition DVD can cost well into six figures)

I don't know if that really flies. The thing is that they generally charge a higher price for the movies with extras than the version without the extra disc, and those extras in the standard edition are supposed to be something to entice people to buy. Movie-only is $15, with extras might be $20-25. It seems to me that it has to be worth the expense if they're still doing it.

I'm usually not that into the extras, though I do like them in some cases. Maybe I would be more interested if they included the subs or closed caption tracks, sometimes I just can't make out a word or line that's spoken in haste or has a lot of chaos in the mix. I don't think any download service offers them like they are on DVD.
post #89 of 181
I own an AppleTV, didn't get the survey invite. I have bought video from iTMS but not rented it.

What I think they need mirrors a lot of people here, mostly to get some form of content that is advertising driven for free or a low monthly cost, and premium content for a reasonable subscription fee. It would be great if they could partner with HULU, Joost, and BBC to get more content or just go to the Networks directly. If they supported a plug-in architecture so that NetFlix, Amazon, and BlockBuster could add their services to it that would be great as well offering more choice to their customers.

One thing that I did not see mentioned was the interface, it needs revised. The iTMS should be an option, but not top of the list like it is. Navigation is getting easier with "Folders" but needs to be worked on for large collections of audio and video as well.

I don't see the need for DVR personally, but I could see it as a selling point. The main reason I don't see the need for it is the model that would work best for content would be closer to the on-demand services which would allow you to watch what you want when you want, and not be restricted to the schedule of the broadcasters. If you take this into account then there is no need for a DVR, if you want to watch something once watch it while it is on the servers or rent the movie from iTMS, if you want have a copy of it for multiple viewing then buy it.
post #90 of 181
What kid of survey asks you: "What % of your digital music is purchased online?" with an option answer of: 1.) "I prefer to buy DVDs in a record store."?? 2.) "I prefer to buy my DVDs online."?
This just verifies that Apple is clueless when it comes to home entertainment. What an embarassment.
post #91 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Why should anyone? DVD is still a bigger industry than Apple is, at least it was last year, Apple is still growing, but it is definitely far bigger than Apple's iTunes video/movie business.


Yeah, DVD's are still a big industry, but what Apple is doing is trying to create the next gen product, and digital formats are the next gen, not physical discs... It's much like CD's were still huge when the iPod was introduced, but Apple never put a cd slot on an iPod.
post #92 of 181
How about a survey for non-owners why they haven't bought one and what features you think should be added to make it more attractive? For me, what it comes down to is both the device and the movies are far too restrictive. Things I would like to see.

1. For the time being at-least, trade profit margins for adoption.
2. Work with the MPAA on a way to import your DVDs into iTunes. An option to export a copy of a digital movie to DVD (possibly with a fee) would also be nice
3. New Remote. What the simple Apple remote lacks in the amount of buttons, it makes up for in the number of times you have to press them to get anywhere. Give me something full featured, yet still smaller and elegant.
4. Work with Hulu and/or the TV networks on ways to view online editions of TV shows.
5. More configurations than just a set top box. For an Apple product, its ironically a cable mess. Your DVD player, your PVR, and your Apple TV all need to plug into different inputs and different wall plugs. Why not combine them into a single device? Better yet, why not combine all of it into a TV.
6. License the technology. iTunes digital movies aren't going anywhere as long as they're bound to Apple branded equipment. The home movie business is too diverse for a single company.
post #93 of 181
I wonder if Apple is taking this survey seriously at all, I've been trying to take it since yesterday but couldn't due to errors, and now it's offline.
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post #94 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Yeah, DVD's are still a big industry, but what Apple is doing is trying to create the next gen product, and digital formats are the next gen, not physical discs... It's much like CD's were still huge when the iPod was introduced, but Apple never put a cd slot on an iPod.

Sure, but the computer you used iTunes on to get the content to your iPod has an optical drive, and iTunes directly accesses that optical drive both for importing and just playing the content. You sit at that computer, load the iPod, them leave the house. The aTV stays home with you, and absolutely should be equipped to do the things you do with video at home. Without them, it's a completely useless device. People who are happy with their aTV's just aren't discerning enough to understand why this useless piece of crap can't do half of what it should for what it costs.
post #95 of 181
Steve Jobs : "AppleTV is a hobby."
Read "I'm just not that into you."
post #96 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Sure, but the computer you used iTunes on to get the content to your iPod has an optical drive, and iTunes directly accesses that optical drive both for importing and just playing the content. You sit at that computer, load the iPod, them leave the house. The aTV stays home with you, and absolutely should be equipped to do the things you do with video at home. Without them, it's a completely useless device. People who are happy with their aTV's just aren't discerning enough to understand why this useless piece of crap can't do half of what it should for what it costs.


And unless you have a MacBook Air, the computer you use to get the content to your Apple TV has an optical drive.. Unfortunately, the ripping of DVD's is an illegal practice.. Fortunately, it can be still be done with software like Handbrake.

People who are un-happy with their atv's just aren't discerning enough to understand that technology is shifting, little plastic discs will become obsolete, Apple knows this and is "skating to where the puck will be."
post #97 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

People who are un-happy with their atv's just aren't discerning enough to understand that technology is shifting, little plastic discs will become obsolete, Apple knows this and is "skating to where the puck will be."

Oh is that the reason that I am un-happy with my AppleTV? All this time I thought it was totally something else like usability of my own files, no visualizer for my music, no recording, no safari, etc, etc.
post #98 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Oh is that the reason that I am un-happy with my AppleTV? All this time I thought it was totally something else like usability of my own files, no visualizer for my music, no recording, no safari, etc, etc.

Then maybe you should not have purchased a product that did not do the things you wanted? Just a thought..
post #99 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Then maybe you should not have purchased a product that did not do the things you wanted? Just a thought..

FYI- When I purchased AppleTV back in May 2007 it was with the intention that Apple was offering and developing a solution to access my digital files in my living room. But what has happened its that it has been morphed by Apple into an iTunes Digital Jukebox with the sole intention of putting more $$ into Apple's pockets by either rental or purchases.
-Just so you know.
That shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.
post #100 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

FYI- When I purchased AppleTV back in May 2007 it was with the intention that Apple was offering and developing a solution to access my digital files in my living room. But what has happened its that it has been morphed by Apple into an iTunes Digital Jukebox with the sole intention of putting more $$ into Apple's pockets by either rental or purchases.
-Just so you know.
That shouldn't be that difficult to comprehend.

Apple TV is a solution to access your digital files in the living room, as long as they are in an iTunes format which is the software that ATV is designed to work with, that has never been a secret.. If they are not, you can convert them..
post #101 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

And unless you have a MacBook Air, the computer you use to get the content to your Apple TV has an optical drive.. Unfortunately, the ripping of DVD's is an illegal practice.. Fortunately, it can be still be done with software like Handbrake.

People who are un-happy with their atv's just aren't discerning enough to understand that technology is shifting, little plastic discs will become obsolete, Apple knows this and is "skating to where the puck will be."

Maybe you don't see it, but that platitude is dumb. By repeating it, you sound more like a clone than an individual, you're repeating someone else's propaganda.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Yeah, DVD's are still a big industry, but what Apple is doing is trying to create the next gen product, and digital formats are the next gen, not physical discs... It's much like CD's were still huge when the iPod was introduced, but Apple never put a cd slot on an iPod.

It took six+ years for Apple to become the dominant music seller, and Apple's uptake in videos seem to be going at a bit of a slower pace when compared to their music division.

iPod serves different needs, it's a portable device, and a CD drive would make it less portable. Maybe you haven't noticed, AppleTV isn't meant to be portable, and even if it were, it wouldn't really be any less portable with the drive. So portability really isn't the issue.

I'm not really saying that AppleTV should have a DVD drive, I'm just objecting to weak reasoning.

I can't say adding a DVD drive makes sense. Adding a DVD player would probably add another $50 to the device, maybe $10 in Apple's cost for the drive, and $20 for a DVD playback license, at least last I heard a couple years ago. The reason there are $30 DVD players is because those budget brands manage to duck the licensing fee, that's not something Apple can do. Also, those cheap brands try to slap together something that will barely last 100 days so the 90 day warranty is up. Given that so many other devices include a player, it's another duplication of capabilities.
post #102 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Apple TV is a solution to access your digital files in the living room, as long as they are in an iTunes format which is the software that ATV is designed to work with, that has never been a secret.. If they are not, you can convert them..

Your mantra over and over is getting old. You just don't get it. Too bad.
post #103 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Maybe you don't see it, but that platitude is dumb. By repeating it, you sound more like a clone than an individual, you're repeating someone else's propaganda.



It took six+ years for Apple to become the dominant music seller.

iPod serves different needs, it's a portable device, and a CD drive would make it less portable. Maybe you haven't noticed, AppleTV isn't meant to be portable, and it wouldn't really be any less portable with the drive. So portability really isn't the issue.

I'm not really saying that AppleTV should have a DVD drive, I'm just objecting to weak reasoning.
I can't say adding a DVD drive makes sense. Adding a DVD player would probably add another $50 to the device, maybe $10 in Apple's cost for the drive, and $20 for a DVD playback license, at least last I heard a couple years ago. The reason there are $30 DVD players is because those budget brands duck the licensing fee, that's not something Apple can do.

In my opinion, (I don't claim to know what goes on in the Cupertion offices,) It's not about portability or weak reasoning.. It's about creating a new product.. Apple tv is designed to be an alternative to the methods we are used to. Digital files will become a replacement for the physical discs we are used to today. I've never known Apple to jump into an existing market, they try to create new ones. That's what Apple tv is.. Apple's future entertainment stake lies in the iTunes store, not in Blu-ray, DVR's or current physical media. Apple tv is their way of accessing that content into the living room.
post #104 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your mantra over and over is getting old. You just don't get it. Too bad.

It's not a mantra, it's the truth. You want Apple TV to be something other than it is.. I'm simply telling you that it's not those things.. Take it for what it is, if you don't like or want it, then don't use or purchase it.
post #105 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

It's not a mantra, it's the truth. You want Apple TV to be something other than it is.. I'm simply telling you that it's not those things.. Take it for what it is, if you don't like or want it, then don't use or purchase it.

You don't know what your talking about.
It was neither a rental nor buying machine when I purchased it.
Why am I wasting my time discussing with you? You just don't get it.
post #106 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

You don't know what your talking about.
It was neither a rental nor buying machine when I purchased it.
Why am I wasting my time discussing with you? You just don't get it.

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about.. Apple tv still does everything it did when you purchased it.. Access to the iTunes store was a feature added in V2, but it doesn't mean the ability to access your personal content was taken away.
post #107 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

In my opinion, (I don't claim to know what goes on in the Cupertion offices,) .

Then why do you keep claiming that you know what Apple's intentions are??
post #108 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Then why do you keep claiming that you know what Apple's intentions are??

Im stating my opinion, just like I said.
post #109 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Actually, I do know what I'm talking about.. Apple tv still does everything it did when you purchased it.. Access to the iTunes store was a feature added in V2, but it doesn't mean the ability to access your personal content was taken away.

Features you spew about that many of us don't want. It should now, 2 years later, be easier to access that content without the purchase of an iPhone. etc, etc, etc.
post #110 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Features you spew about that many of us don't want. It should now, 2 years later, be easier to access that content without the purchase of an iPhone. etc, etc, etc.

Well again, this is my opinion, but, perhaps in the future you should not buy products based on what you think they may become and instead buy products based on what they are...
post #111 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Well again, this is my opinion, but, perhaps in the future you should not buy products based on what you think they may become and instead buy products based on what they are...

In this case - that is failed reasoning. If so then what is the USB jack for? Wasn't that to become useful for something? Why else is it there? It was already there when I purchased it- at least I thought so.
post #112 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

In this case - that is failed reasoning. If so then what is the USB jack for? Wasn't that to become useful for something? Why else is it there? I was there when I purchased it- at least I thought so.

Yes, it was there when you purchased it, and it's still there today.. When will it become enabled, and what will it be used for? Lots of possibilities, your guess is as good as mine...
post #113 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Yes, it was there when you purchased it, and it's still there today.. When will it become enabled, and what will it be used for? Lots of possibilities, your guess is as good as mine...

Are you afraid to speculate what it may become because if it doesn't then your whole house of cards collapses?
post #114 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Are you afraid to speculate what it may become because if it doesn't then your whole house of cards collapses?


Don't fool yourself.. My house of cards is standing tall... Yours collapsed two comment pages ago!
post #115 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun View Post

Don't fool yourself.. My house of cards is standing tall... Yours collapsed two comment pages ago!

Dream on!
post #116 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Steve Jobs : "AppleTV is a hobby."
Read "I'm just not that into you."

Or "since I don't really watch TV, I really don't have a clue what you people want in this device."
post #117 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by tacojohn View Post

Add an inexpensive subscription plan ($20 or less a month) and I'm there.

and/or

Add hulu streaming support and I'm there.

That's all it would take.

You're looking for a Comcast killer, and I'm totally on board with that.

I would like to see Apple TV add:

* Blu-Ray DVD capability. Ripping DVDs, putting them on your network, blah blah blah is a hobbyist pursuit. The more practical option for most consumers is a set-top device that plays DVDs but makes downloading the same content just as easy. Playing DVDs is not a unique feature, but it would motivate people who are Blu-Ray shopping or want to get rid of a box under the TV if they're going to add a new one.

* A TV content subscription plan with a critical mass of content. That's going to mean live content -- cable news, Academy Awards, college and pro sports, etc. I don't think a subscription plan will get mass adoption unless it is either cheap enough to add to cable to comprehensive enough to replace it.

I would even be OK with tiered and/or a la carte plans if that's what it takes to make the licensing work with the content producers.

A DVR is just a stop-gap, and it would wreck Apple's ability to move content through the Apple Store. And you wouldn't need it if all the same content was available anyway.
post #118 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Do you even own an AppleTV? If you had been burnt, you'd too would complain and whine yourself.

Yes, I own one. I mentioned it in the second paragraph of my post and it's also in my signature. It's not perfect but for the most part I'm very happy with it - so much so that I bought one for my brother for Christmas.

iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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post #119 of 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Porchland View Post

You're looking for a Comcast killer, and I'm totally on board with that.

I would like to see Apple TV add:

* Blu-Ray DVD capability. Ripping DVDs, putting them on your network, blah blah blah is a hobbyist pursuit. The more practical option for most consumers is a set-top device that plays DVDs but makes downloading the same content just as easy. Playing DVDs is not a unique feature, but it would motivate people who are Blu-Ray shopping or want to get rid of a box under the TV if they're going to add a new one.

* A TV content subscription plan with a critical mass of content. That's going to mean live content -- cable news, Academy Awards, college and pro sports, etc. I don't think a subscription plan will get mass adoption unless it is either cheap enough to add to cable to comprehensive enough to replace it.

I would even be OK with tiered and/or a la carte plans if that's what it takes to make the licensing work with the content producers.

A DVR is just a stop-gap, and it would wreck Apple's ability to move content through the Apple Store. And you wouldn't need it if all the same content was available anyway.

I agree with the idea of adding a small BluRay drive...it would be nice but it's not going to happen. I disagree with the DVR being a stop-gap though. I think being able to use it as a DVR would be fantastic AND lead to people buying the more expensive model with the larger hard drive. Besides, Apple writes great software where as the maker of my current DVR does not.

iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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iPod, iPad, iPad2, iPad 3, iPad Mini, iPhone, iPhone 3GS, iPhone 4, iPhone 4S, iPhone 5, AppleTV (1,2 & 3), 13" MacBook Pro, 24" Cinema Display, Time Capsule, 21.5" iMac (Mid 2011)

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post #120 of 181
I like how a bunch of people who do not own AppleTVs comment about how dumb this is. Your problem is that you don't own one and you do not realize how many hacks are available for it.

I think they just want to know what people are doing with them so they can make a better product that doesn't require a bunch of hacks to make useful.

A lot of people install a full version of OSX on it, others (like me) just copy over a bunch of kext from a 10.4 combo update to enable things like the USB port (and the USB port is supposed to be for diagnostic purposes only, its not a end user thing).

My ATV has a 1TB external HD with movies and TV shows connected to it, it is also sharing that drive over the network via SSHFS (Its possible to do it via standard apple protocols, but I didn't bother enabling that). I have also installed Perian and Sapphire that allow me to watch all my media on my external though the standard ATV interface. I also have boxee on there, which I like a lot, particularly Hulu.

And I am just one person, there are a boat load of hacks and 3rd party plugins that you can download and install. If you are not afraid of the terminal the possibilities are endless. I think Apple is just trying to find out what every one is doing with the AppleTV and maybe release a product that more closely resembles the uses.

Too bad the damn survey is down...

Jim
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