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"Hey Bob, would you consider outsourcing yourself?"

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/05/news...nies/ibm_jobs/

NEW YORK (CNN) -- IBM employees being laid off in North America now have an alternative to joining the growing ranks of the unemployed - work for the company abroad.

Big Blue is offering its outgoing workers in the United States and Canada a chance to take an IBM job in India, Nigeria, Russia or other countries.

Through a program dubbed Project Match, IBM will help interested workers whose jobs are on the chopping block to "identify potential opportunities in growth markets and facilitate consideration by hiring managers in those markets," according to an internal company document obtained by CNN.

The company also will help with moving costs and provide visa assistance, it says.

Other countries with IBM opportunities include Argentina, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Turkey, and United Arab Emirates, according to the document.

Only "satisfactory performers" who are "willing to work on local terms and conditions" should pursue the jobs, the document says. IBM would not immediately confirm if it means that the workers would be paid local wages and would be subject to local labor laws.

A spokesman for Alliance@IBM, a workers' group that is affiliated with the Communications Workers of America but does not have official union status at IBM, slammed the initiative.

"IBM not only is offshoring its work to low-cost countries, now IBM wants employees to offshore themselves," spokesman Lee Conrad told CNN. "At a time of rising unemployment IBM should be looking to keep both the work and the workers in the United States."

The Armonk, N.Y.-based company has confirmed recent layoffs but has not provided any specifics on the number of people affected.

Conrad said IBM (IBM, Fortune 500) has laid off more than 4,000 workers in the United States since the beginning of the year, but called that "a conservative number."

"This is unacceptable to the Alliance and we are pursuing this by asking our members and all IBM employees to contact their political representatives to demand an accounting and transparency in job cuts and offshoring from IBM," Conrad said.
post #2 of 18
Yea I'm going to have to go ahead and ask you to move your desk to India. Yea. It's not a half day there.
post #3 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by O-Mac View Post

http://money.cnn.com/2009/02/05/news...nies/ibm_jobs/

Only "satisfactory performers" who are "willing to work on local terms and conditions" should pursue the jobs, the document says. IBM would not immediately confirm if it means that the workers would be paid local wages and would be subject to local labor laws.

when I run that phrase through Google Translate -> www.google.com/translate <-
(selecting "thieving rat bastard corporation" > "english")

it reads:

"Only those who will work themselves to death for slave wages need apply."
post #4 of 18
At least IBM is giving them a chance. They should be thankful!

Complaints about this is my biggest issue with Democrats.

Why is someone in the US is more worthy of a job than someone in India?

I am all for universal healthcare, good public education and government investment in science and technology, but this protectionist attitude makes me sick.

It's all about exploitation. IBM has the right to sell their products everywhere and they have the right to employ anyone anywhere! Why do Democrats expect for IBM to make a profit out of foreign markets and not reinvest in them? In their narrow minds, they think it is the responsibility of "american" companies to suck the money out of the rest of the world and pump it into the US. Exploitation!

Get this into your mind, IBM is no more of an american company than Toyota. These are transnational corporations, their headquarters might be based in a particular country but they sell their products, make their products and employ people everywhere. This is the way it should be. Free trade and fair trade.
post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post

At least IBM is giving them a chance. They should be thankful!

Complaints about this is my biggest issue with Democrats.

Why is someone in the US is more worthy of a job than someone in India?

I am all for universal healthcare, good public education and government investment in science and technology, but this protectionist attitude makes me sick.

It's all about exploitation. IBM has the right to sell their products everywhere and they have the right to employ anyone anywhere! Why do Democrats expect for IBM to make a profit out of foreign markets and not reinvest in them? In their narrow minds, they think it is the responsibility of "american" companies to suck the money out of the rest of the world and pump it into the US. Exploitation!

Get this into your mind, IBM is no more of an american company than Toyota. These are transnational corporations, their headquarters might be based in a particular country but they sell their products, make their products and employ people everywhere. This is the way it should be. Free trade and fair trade.


Free trade & fair trade are 2 entirely different concepts. They are, imo, mutually exclusive terms.

For instance, multinationals thrive on so-called "Free Trade" (a couple of words that remind me of the phrase "Right to Work State"), while the rest of us would & could thrive on "Fair Trade."

Free Trade (as it tends to manifest) destroys communities & instead of creating true Wealth actually generates illth.

Fair trade builds communities and definitely has the potential to spread the ducats around -> distribution of wealth instead of concentration of wealth.
post #6 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post

At least IBM is giving them a chance. They should be thankful!

Complaints about this is my biggest issue with Democrats.

Stupidity is my biggest issue with Republicans and I are one.

Quote:
Why is someone in the US is more worthy of a job than someone in India?

Because I am a US citizen rather than an Indian one? Therefore US jobs have more value to me than Indian ones.

Quote:
I am all for universal healthcare, good public education and government investment in science and technology, but this protectionist attitude makes me sick.

What on earth does this have to do with the topic at hand? Nada.

Quote:
It's all about exploitation. IBM has the right to sell their products everywhere and they have the right to employ anyone anywhere! Why do Democrats expect for IBM to make a profit out of foreign markets and not reinvest in them? In their narrow minds, they think it is the responsibility of "american" companies to suck the money out of the rest of the world and pump it into the US. Exploitation!

I searched for democrat in that article and got zero hits. I searched this thread and got...zero hits (other than yours).

Quote:
Get this into your mind, IBM is no more of an american company than Toyota. These are transnational corporations, their headquarters might be based in a particular country but they sell their products, make their products and employ people everywhere. This is the way it should be. Free trade and fair trade.

If I were young and laid off from IBM I'd consider working in India for a while as something fun and different to do. Or China...but more likely India since it is a former british colony and english is probably better understood there. Dubai would be interesting too since the going local rate PROBABLY doesn't put you in a slum.

On the other hand, if I were making policy I'd immediately slash all H1-B quotas to 0 and send all 65,000 of them home if the US tech market is taking a hard job hit. Then pay for retraining of US citizens to fill those H1B slots.

And if IBM prefers to be an Indian company they can move their headquarters to Bangalore. There are advantages to being a US based company...and implied responsibilities to the host nation.

How odd...that has always been more a Republican stance than a Democrat one. We did coin that idiotic term freedom fries and there are probably more Buy American adherents in the republican party than the democratic one.
post #7 of 18
Thread Starter 
I'm sure there are tons of Americans out there who would love to see their jobs outsourced to another country. NOT.

So, since this is happening and doesn't look like it's going to stop as Americans we have to do what we do best. Recover, adapt and be independently resourceful.

Giving up is NOT the American way.

Complain till the cows come home, absolutely!
But save yourself some time to find another way to success.
post #8 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by user_23 View Post

"Only those who will work themselves to death for slave wages need apply."

Not likely. In my travels I've found that Americans work harder than pretty much anyone else, at least in general. The myth about workers in "emerging markets" pulling crazy hours is just that: a myth. If these workers were so motivated, their nations wouldn't still be emerging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by soulcrusher View Post

At least IBM is giving them a chance. They should be thankful!

Complaints about this is my biggest issue with Democrats.

Why is someone in the US is more worthy of a job than someone in India?

Bang on. The concept of entitlement makes my blood boil.
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post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

Not likely. In my travels I've found that Americans work harder than pretty much anyone else, at least in general. The myth about workers in "emerging markets" pulling crazy hours is just that: a myth. If these workers were so motivated, their nations wouldn't still be emerging.

Bang on. The concept of entitlement makes my blood boil.

OK. So when is it OK to be patriotic and when is it not?

I mean, for example, when you go to war to protect the American way of life, what are you trying to protect?
post #10 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

OK. So when is it OK to be patriotic and when is it not?

I mean, for example, when you go to war to protect the American way of life, what are you trying to protect?

This is pretty poor bait.

I am for equal opportunity in all aspects: the job market and the enemy market, for example. If a very obvious group of people somewhere in the world wants to do business with me, then that's great. If a very obvious group somewhere in the world wants to attack my land, then I'm going to vote for leaders that are going to fight back. It's pretty simple, really.
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post #11 of 18
Guys -- I love you all to death, but the only thing that AI is missing is a full-on JonesTown Kool-Aid festival.


Good night and good luck!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

This is pretty poor bait.

I am for equal opportunity in all aspects: the job market and the enemy market, for example. If a very obvious group of people somewhere in the world wants to do business with me, then that's great. If a very obvious group somewhere in the world wants to attack my land, then I'm going to vote for leaders that are going to fight back. It's pretty simple, really.

Jobs protectionism makes your blood boil.

You will send Americans abroad to fight for the American way of life.

But if they come home to find to their jobs are in South Africa now, that's OK.

Basically, for you capitalism trumps nation.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz View Post

Guys -- I love you all to death, but the only thing that AI is missing is a full-on JonesTown Kool-Aid festival.


Good night and good luck!

And I was just saying how nice it was to have a religious fundamentalist periodically drop in to patronise everyone and disappear without listening.
post #14 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah View Post

And I was just saying how nice it was to have a religious fundamentalist periodically drop in to patronise everyone and disappear without listening.

What would be cool would be if he keeps coming back every few months, with increasingly frantic, disjointed bulletins from the front lines of Obama's America, chronicling the descent of his part of Texas into a hellscape of brutal feudalism as heavily armed local strongmen emerge to counter the horrors of deficit spending and the Fairness Doctrine. He could finish up with a series of nearly unintelligible fragments from a bunker containing only a bible and stock market ticker.

I guess that wouldn't be terribly different from the average DMZ post, but the back story would be fucking hilarious.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What would be cool would be if he keeps coming back every few months, with increasingly frantic, disjointed bulletins from the front lines of Obama's America, chronicling the descent of his part of Texas into a hellscape of brutal feudalism as heavily armed local strongmen emerge to counter the horrors of deficit spending and the Fairness Doctrine. He could finish up with a series of nearly unintelligible fragments from a bunker containing only a bible and stock market ticker.

I guess that wouldn't be terribly different from the average DMZ post, but the back story would be fucking hilarious.

I thought he was in Alaska?

That buzz from the beyond the stand of pines is the approach of the militia of the warlord Todd Palin, their terrible squadron of snow machines leaving widows in its wake. Submit, submit.

There will be red on the snow ere morning.

—We ride for Fairbanks tonight, said dmz quietly.

FOR TODD AND FOR GOD came the answering cry.
post #16 of 18
I really wish that were merely satire.

Quote:
After the pending Second American Revolution results in killing the people who have wrecked this country -- yes, you KNOW who I'm talking about -- what are we going to do as a nation to move forward?

Wheeee!!!!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #17 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splinemodel View Post

The myth about workers in "emerging markets" pulling crazy hours is just that: a myth. If these workers were so motivated, their nations wouldn't still be emerging.

Well, if we focus on one country I have some awareness of - China - then I would have to disagree. I personally know of an individual (American) who operates 3 factories in China. While his factories have the fairest conditions he can create given where they are located, he has informed me that the stories of abuse/overwork/little pay/slave-like conditions are very real. I tend to believe this fellow. That aside, googling "chinese factory worker overworked" pulls up many, many hits spanning years & years. Additional googling on countries such as "mexico" "indonesia" "thailand" "vietnam" pulls up the same stories of woe & misery.

I tend to believe that so-called emerging nations will always be so until & unless their governments cease the exploitation of their peoples by way of super low pay, and super crappy working conditions. The work-forces of many countries are going through (have been going through) precisely what labor went through in the U.S.A. - up until the (approximate) 30's. Labor conditions in this country (fair pay for labor, 8 hour work day, safe working conditions, etc.) were hard fought for back in the day through protest & demonstration. Big business _never_ liked the concessions they were forced to make. Big business simply bade its time until it could export the jobs of America to countries which support tyrannical & dehumanizing conditions. The spread of illth needs to stop, really.

ps: an excellent reference on the history of the labor struggle in the U.S. would be Howard Zinn's "A People's History of the United States."
post #18 of 18
Quote:
Other countries with IBM opportunities include Argentina, Brazil, China, Czech Republic, Hungary, Mexico, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia, South Africa, Turkey, and United Arab Emirates, according to the document

Pssst, they are not talking about India. Don't let that stop you from bashing them though. This whole premise is bull shit.
Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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Most of us employ the Internet not to seek the best information, but rather to select information that confirms our prejudices. - Nicholas D. Kristof
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