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Video of claimed next-gen Mac Mini surfaces online - Page 5

post #161 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Core i7 is not supposed to be a high volume mainstream cpu folks. It's an enthusiast system. This means you shouldn't be asking for a Core i7 iMac. The iMac is a high volume mainstream computing system.

The Mac mini has sadly been neglected but I hope Apple sees the light and keeps the mini dual core and affordable. The roadmap is laid out well for the mini hardwarewise.

The mini has been neglected and will continue to be neglected as long as people buy them up. Frankly I hope the next mini has the same internals (you know they have to be dirt cheap for the 2.0GHz and 965 northbridge with GMA950, hell give them GMA3100) and just add what they want to push, namely mini-DP. It'll be their recession buster. 50% or more margin on ancient tech, and the people continue to lap it up.
post #162 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by @homenow View Post

when the updates come out it will still be more bang for your buck than the mini will. It is unrealistic to use a low end consumer computer for high end design work, and the mini will never be up to the task compared to those computer that are designed for it.

The only real difference between the mini and the iMac is the hard drive. You can put a 7200rpm 2.5" drive in it or SSD and the performance will be about even. Apple likes to convince people that the iMac is better value by holding the Mini down. When the updates come out, unless they have some seriously good processors in the low end iMac, they are just a waste of money as you would just be paying for a screen you don't need.

If you look at the 24" LED Cinema screen and think you'd never buy one and then look at the iMac and think you would, all they've done is take that screen and put slightly faster than Mini hardware in the back of it.

But what do you do when your display backlight fails or you get dead pixels? What do you do when you need to take your hard drive out (the aluminum model you have to disconnect the display from the motherboard)? What do you do when display manufacturers bring out some great display technology and you don't want a shiny screen staring at you? Mini owners don't have to bother about it because it's such a modular device.
post #163 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Core i7 is not supposed to be a high volume mainstream cpu folks. It's an enthusiast system. This means you shouldn't be asking for a Core i7 iMac. The iMac is a high volume mainstream computing system.

The Mac mini has sadly been neglected but I hope Apple sees the light and keeps the mini dual core and affordable. The roadmap is laid out well for the mini hardwarewise.

iMacs already use an enthusiast CPU, the Core 2 Extreme. the iMac is not grossly underpowered like the mini, though. It's a very attractive desktop, pretty fast CPU, decent graphics for home and business use, and a host of other nice features. But I agree, the i7 is not as good a fit as the upcoming Lynnfield i5 CPUs. Who knows what Apple is planning.

The mini on the other hand is not a good value. The GPU will not leverage any of the cool graphics technologies Apple has coming up, the RAM ceiling is inadequate for a modern computer (spare me your "but 2GB is enough for emailing and web browsing, yadda yadda yadda". Great, get a netbook for that then). and it just plain suck.
post #164 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The only real difference between the mini and the iMac is the hard drive. You can put a 7200rpm 2.5" drive in it or SSD and the performance will be about even. Apple likes to convince people that the iMac is better value by holding the Mini down. When the updates come out, unless they have some seriously good processors in the low end iMac, they are just a waste of money as you would just be paying for a screen you don't need.

If you look at the 24" LED Cinema screen and think you'd never buy one and then look at the iMac and think you would, all they've done is take that screen and put slightly faster than Mini hardware in the back of it.

But what do you do when your display backlight fails or you get dead pixels? What do you do when you need to take your hard drive out (the aluminum model you have to disconnect the display from the motherboard)? What do you do when display manufacturers bring out some great display technology and you don't want a shiny screen staring at you? Mini owners don't have to bother about it because it's such a modular device.

What? the mini and iMac are leagues apart. Apple keeps it that way.

iMac - processors up to 3GHz
mini - processors up to 2GHz

iMac - RAM to 4GB
mini - RAM to 2GB

iMac - full sized HDD
mini - laptop HDD

iMac - dedicated graphics with discreet VRAM
mini - integrated graphics with shared VRAM

iMac - Firewire 800 AND 400
mini - Firewire 400

iMac - 1066 system bus
mini - 667 system bus

iMac - wireless N
mini - wireless G

iMac - not pathetic
mini - pathetic


The iMac does have a serious flaw, and it hasn't always been like this. the display does hinder upgradability, and this is Apple's decision. Just like you're not supposed to open up the mini and upgrade it yourself. So you can't use this against the iMac. At least the iMac lets you upgrade RAM easily.

The screen dies, you get it replaced. In warranty it's not a big deal. Outside of warranty it can be. Those are the breaks.
post #165 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - processors up to 3GHz
mini - processors up to 2GHz

You have to take price into consideration though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - RAM to 4GB
mini - RAM to 2GB

The Mini can use 3GB out of a 4GB installation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - full sized HDD
mini - laptop HDD

Not important with 7200rpm 2.5" drives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - dedicated graphics with discreet VRAM
mini - integrated graphics with shared VRAM

Ram is plentiful these days anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - Firewire 800 AND 400
mini - Firewire 400

We are comparing the updated model with an old iMac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - 1066 system bus
mini - 667 system bus

iMac - wireless N
mini - wireless G

New model will have these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Just like you're not supposed to open up the mini and upgrade it yourself. So you can't use this against the iMac. At least the iMac lets you upgrade RAM easily.

Replacing the drive in the iMac could damage your screen, which costs half the price to replace or more. The worst you could do to a Mini is destroy the whole thing and you can replace the whole thing for the same as an iMac display.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

The screen dies, you get it replaced. In warranty it's not a big deal. Outside of warranty it can be. Those are the breaks.

It's still an issue in warranty as your whole machine has to be sent away with your work/personal files for over a week.

Concerning the update, Tim Cook said today at the shareholders meeting:

"I have very fond memories of Macworld. Where we are now with retail investment blows macworld out of the water. Also we can announce press conferences whenever we want now which is better for the company."

So I guess we're waiting for a press event. Now that this meeting is out of the way for another year and the board is re-elected, they can focus on delivering some products. I fear this is going to be a case of 'a watched kettle never boils' type thing. The more time goes on, the more frustrating it will get anticipating an update so it's best just to cool the expectations and just bother about it when they actually decide to do something. Their performance regarding their desktop lineup has just been shameful and more so if it turns out to be dual core across the entire consumer line. The Mac Pro should be great but still very pricey.
post #166 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

You have to take price into consideration though.


You're right. Add the cost of a monitor, speakers, keyboard, mouse, webcam to the mini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The Mini can use 3GB out of a 4GB installation.


Typical mini users won't know this. They bring it to the Apple store and Apple will not upgrade it beyond the official 2GB. Well some kid there may but you have no guarantee. In that case, let's say the iMac can be upgraded to 6GB.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Not important with 7200rpm 2.5" drives.

True. Capacity is still lacking though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Ram is plentiful these days anyway.

Performance can't be swept under the rug that way though. Performance suffers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

We are comparing the updated model with an old iMac.

What updated model? How do we know what it will have? For all we know they were testing putting the MCP79 in it but found a cheaper Intel solution that will let them get even more margins from it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

New model will have these.

We assume it will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Replacing the drive in the iMac could damage your screen, which costs half the price to replace or more. The worst you could do to a Mini is destroy the whole thing and you can replace the whole thing for the same as an iMac display.

I know \ That's the iMac's achilles heel. But you go into it knowing that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

It's still an issue in warranty as your whole machine has to be sent away with your work/personal files for over a week.

Tell me about it. My iMac powersupply died under warranty and I had it away for the weekend only because they had the part at the store.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

So I guess we're waiting for a press event. Now that this meeting is out of the way for another year and the board is re-elected, they can focus on delivering some products. I fear this is going to be a case of 'a watched kettle never boils' type thing. The more time goes on, the more frustrating it will get anticipating an update so it's best just to cool the expectations and just bother about it when they actually decide to do something. Their performance regarding their desktop lineup has just been shameful and more so if it turns out to be dual core across the entire consumer line. The Mac Pro should be great but still very pricey.

I hope so. I'm tired of steering people away from the mini and telling them to get a MacBook portable they don't need.
post #167 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by @homenow View Post

The average mini buyer is not going to be working on 500MB Photoshop files.

we are talking about future potential mini buyers. and, you can't tell the market what it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by @homenow View Post

If you need to regularly work on 500MB Photoshop files or larger/complex InDesign and Illustrator then you are a fool to buy a mini or even a Macbook for the task.

or, maybe i have a budget, and unfortunately it is not $1999 for a mbp, or $2799 for a mac pro. nor, do i want to spend $2199 for a top end imac, when i already have a nice 23" monitor. i think, looking at prices, the gap becomes quite obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

A Mac Pro would be nice but unnecessarily expensive, especially in this economic climate.

100% agreed. hopefully if mac pro sales dive, then apple will wake up to this fact.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I'm telling you though, the PC IT guy in the department would like to see the creative team go to Windows, but that is a whole other can of worms. Not going to happen.

sadly, though, to get the midrange specs we want, at a midrange price, this is the only choice. lucky for apple, for us designers, it is well... not a choice we want to make.

bring back the cube! or, actually, even a pizza-box case would be nice... if it is done apple style - hell, just cram a macbook pro or imac motherboard as-is into a nice slim pizza box case, and leave out the battery and 9600m - hell, that's the ticket! if it is mbp guts in a 15in x 6in x 1in case - slick! micro-tower, standing on edge. dont forget the designers who helped keep apple alive in the late 90's!
post #168 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsx View Post

sadly, though, to get the midrange specs we want, at a midrange price, this is the only choice. lucky for apple, for us designers, it is well... not a choice we want to make.

bring back the cube! or, actually, even a pizza-box case would be nice... if it is done apple style - hell, just cram a macbook pro or imac motherboard as-is into a nice slim pizza box case, and leave out the battery and 9600m - hell, that's the ticket! if it is mbp guts in a 15in x 6in x 1in case - slick! micro-tower, standing on edge. dont forget the designers who helped keep apple alive in the late 90's!

It won't take Mac Pro sales to dive, it'll take mini and iMac sales to dive. The Pro is still relevant in the high-end workstation market. iMac is a little weak but is a decent machine and sales should be OK. Hopefully people see the mini for what it is, an over-priced, under-speced machine and stop buying it. That will spur Apple into action, one way or another.

And, hell yeah! Bring back the LC
post #169 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

"Q8200 quad with 8GB Ram, 500GB HD, DVDRW, Geforce 9500GT w 1GB VRam for under £450."
How is the tower in the above example crap? And you get 8 gigs of ram in it! A gpu with 1 gig of vram you can only dream about in Apple's consumer desktop line up and it's a quad.

It only runs Windows or Linux, therefore it is crap.

Unless you want to try the hackintosh route. Then you have Mac OS X running in an unstable environment. That's not something I'd trust MY data to!
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post #170 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

iMac - processors up to 3GHz
mini - processors up to 2GHz

iMac - RAM to 4GB
mini - RAM to 2GB

iMac - full sized HDD
mini - laptop HDD

iMac - dedicated graphics with discreet VRAM
mini - integrated graphics with shared VRAM

iMac - Firewire 800 AND 400
mini - Firewire 400

iMac - 1066 system bus
mini - 667 system bus

iMac - wireless N
mini - wireless G

iMac - not pathetic
mini - pathetic

You forgot something:
iMac - Gigabit Ethernet
mini - 10/100 Ethernet

Also, there ARE 2 1/2" hard drives that are 500GB x 7200 rpm.

Why change the boot drive, unless it's to add a 7200 rpm drive? Use the FireWire 800 port and add external drives. I store all my media (photos, music, older project files, etc.) on an external hard drive to keep free space on my internal drive. that's what FireWire is for!
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post #171 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffharris View Post

You forgot something:
iMac - Gigabit Ethernet
mini - 10/100 Ethernet

Also, there ARE 2 1/2" hard drives that are 500GB x 7200 rpm.

Why change the boot drive, unless it's to add a 7200 rpm drive? Use the FireWire 800 port and add external drives. I store all my media (photos, music, older project files, etc.) on an external hard drive to keep free space on my internal drive. that's what FireWire is for!

The mini does have gigabit ethernet.

And that's all well and good about 2.5" 500GB drives but 3.5" are at 3 times the capacity! With the iMac, it's probably not essential to swap the HDD; the ones you'd get with it (500-1000GB) are spacious enough to last the lifetime of the machine with Firewire storage to supplement (and backup).
post #172 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

The mini does have gigabit ethernet.

And that's all well and good about 2.5" 500GB drives but 3.5" are at 3 times the capacity! With the iMac, it's probably not essential to swap the HDD; the ones you'd get with it (500-1000GB) are spacious enough to last the lifetime of the machine with Firewire storage to supplement (and backup).

Four times the capacity, the first 2TB drives are out now.
post #173 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

The mini does have gigabit ethernet.

And that's all well and good about 2.5" 500GB drives but 3.5" are at 3 times the capacity! With the iMac, it's probably not essential to swap the HDD; the ones you'd get with it (500-1000GB) are spacious enough to last the lifetime of the machine with Firewire storage to supplement (and backup).

If i'm going to change the drive in a mini it's going to be an SSD so that I have 10k performance and above and run cooler.

The iMac needs to be a quad core platform and the mini needs to stay as a dual core platform.

Intel has paved a road of gold for Apple to easily add the distinction. 210 should offer Arrandale dual core for SFF configs and lynnfield or whatever its 32nm replacement is for quad core. No iMac should be less than a quad core IMO and they should all have 22" or larger IPS screens.


Then the mini wouldn't cannibalize iMac sales because if you need mainstream power you need quad core.

The mini would be the perfect Kitchen or auxilliary computer.
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post #174 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by FuturePastNow View Post

Four times the capacity, the first 2TB drives are out now.

I know they were close, but I didn't know they were already out. 4 times then. Nice.
post #175 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by rpsx View Post

bring back the cube! or, actually, even a pizza-box case would be nice... if it is done apple style - hell, just cram a macbook pro or imac motherboard as-is into a nice slim pizza box case, and leave out the battery and 9600m - hell, that's the ticket! if it is mbp guts in a 15in x 6in x 1in case - slick! micro-tower, standing on edge. dont forget the designers who helped keep apple alive in the late 90's!

Dell Studio Hybrid

For the price of a 2.0GHz Mac mini, you get the same processor and DVD burner plus 3GB of RAM, almost 3x the HD space, wireless keyboard and mouse and 22" LCD. If OSX86 could be installed on this, it would be a killer Mini replacement.
post #176 of 185
Quote:
iMacs already use an enthusiast CPU, the Core 2 Extreme. the iMac is not grossly underpowered like the mini, though. It's a very attractive desktop, pretty fast CPU, decent graphics for home and business use, and a host of other nice features. But I agree, the i7 is not as good a fit as the upcoming Lynnfield i5 CPUs. Who knows what Apple is planning.

The mini on the other hand is not a good value. The GPU will not leverage any of the cool graphics technologies Apple has coming up, the RAM ceiling is inadequate for a modern computer (spare me your "but 2GB is enough for emailing and web browsing, yadda yadda yadda". Great, get a netbook for that then). and it just plain suck.

Agreed. But not offering the i7 and 'enthusiast' performance and price benefits care of a mid-tower or something...is poor.

It's about time Apple offered some innovation and variety in their desktop line up. Yeesh. Two laptops masquerading as desktops and the 'only' truly expandable computer is the Mac Pro with a price tag to match. Most Wintel buyers have the choice (whether they want to exercise that option...) to upgrade from prices starting at less than £500.

The mini just plain sucks right now. Geeze. Most computers in that price bracket at least have the optimism to offer a k/board and Monitor...

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #177 of 185
Quote:
No iMac should be less than a quad core IMO and they should all have 22" or larger IPS screens.

No kidding. Apple are in for a sales shock if they offer duos when quads are now the desktop norm. I wouldn't buy an iMac with a duo. I'm still hopeful they can stick a Nehalem i7 2.66 quad in the top end...and dreaming of a 28 inch version.

*Shrugs. Didn't they fit a G5 in the old white case? Didn't that run hot?

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #178 of 185
Well. I don't think either OS are 'crap'. But I take the sentiment. They are hard work and painful to use. I certainly feel like crap when I've used Windows. It's an obtuse 'little' program.

Quote:
It only runs Windows or Linux, therefore it is crap.

The spec certainly isn't crap. And Apple should be offering that kind of value in their consumer desktop line up. There is no need to offer such limited performance for a form factor re: desktops. Laptops, fine. I can even see the need for iMac and Mini form factors. But I dispute that design must take the lead over performance when there's an equal amount of desktop buyers or more that would like the mainstream performance and cost benefits of the i7 platform.

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #179 of 185
Quote:
A Mac Pro would be nice but unnecessarily expensive, especially in this economic climate.

Not if they used a cheaper alternative IN ADDITION to the Xeons. ie the i7. And you'd have a reasonably prices line of towers underneath the workstation range.

Quads or Octos. You could take your pick. With a price to fit both pockets. And they'd sell boat loads more towers. Wintel buyers could buy them KNOWING they'd got a PC and they'd get to try the Mac.

(If I was 'armchair' CEO for a day...this is the one thing I'd change. Mid-tower! ...and I'd bundel a k/b and Monitor with the mini...)

Lemon Bon Bon.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #180 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Dell Studio Hybrid

For the price of a 2.0GHz Mac mini, you get the same processor and DVD burner plus 3GB of RAM, almost 3x the HD space, wireless keyboard and mouse and 22" LCD. If OSX86 could be installed on this, it would be a killer Mini replacement.

There you can perfectly see why the Mini is still around and hasn't received a update till now.
Profit in the size of what Apple makes from the MBs. We are told that Apple makes about 30% margin on the MBs, but thats margin not profit. 30% of $ 1,500.- ~ $ 500.-

If you subtract all things from the studio hybrid to match the Mini you save about $ 460,-.

With the Mini you can't match the HD size and you don't get draft n wireless and no way to upgrade the Mini to 3 GB RAM by Apple. Furthermore the studio hybrid incorporates the X3100 IGP.

So even if dell doesn't make any profit on the studio hybrid and just covers costs, Apple is making $ 460,- of pure profit (Apple can for sure match dells BOM and manufacturing costs).
Until no-one is buying the Mini Apple will sell it as it is, because it is pure gold for Apple.

And as we all prefer MacOSX that much more over Windows as we do, Apple may find a full year of life left in the Mini as it is specced now.
Good for Apple , bad for us Mac aficionados.
post #181 of 185
Even forgot to say that most of the development costs for the Mini could be laid of to the MB 2006
as the Mini shares most/all(?) features of the motherboard with the MB from 3 years ago.
post #182 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by copeland View Post

There you can perfectly see why the Mini is still around and hasn't received a update till now.
Profit in the size of what Apple makes from the MBs. We are told that Apple makes about 30% margin on the MBs, but thats margin not profit. 30% of $ 1,500.- ~ $ 500.-

If you subtract all things from the studio hybrid to match the Mini you save about $ 460,-.

With the Mini you can't match the HD size and you don't get draft n wireless and no way to upgrade the Mini to 3 GB RAM by Apple. Furthermore the studio hybrid incorporates the X3100 IGP.

So even if dell doesn't make any profit on the studio hybrid and just covers costs, Apple is making $ 460,- of pure profit (Apple can for sure match dells BOM and manufacturing costs).
Until no-one is buying the Mini Apple will sell it as it is, because it is pure gold for Apple.

And as we all prefer MacOSX that much more over Windows as we do, Apple may find a full year of life left in the Mini as it is specced now.
Good for Apple , bad for us Mac aficionados.

There is little likelihood that the mini will soldier on unchanged for another year. Don't forget that for Apple to sell the mini with components not used in other Apple products is inefficient. Not going to happen. The mini makes sense using pretty much the same basic internals as the macbook line of computers. It means, for example, that Apple has more clout with nVidia if it's using that company's 9400M GPU in more products. So opting for the 9400 in the mini is a no-brainer.

Certain sites have been reliable in terms of their claims of what Apple is working on and I do believe that Apple has put some effort into reworking the mini. As such, it's unlikely the machine will not be revised in the next short while.
post #183 of 185
I've started a website about this:
www.newmacmini.com
Latest rumor shows that the new mac mini may use intel's new upcoming core i7 mobile processor!
post #184 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by movingincircles View Post

I've started a website about this:
www.newmacmini.com
Latest rumor shows that the new mac mini may use intel's new upcoming core i7 mobile processor!

We know that mobile Nehalem isn't coming until the end of the year but the Mini won't be delayed because of that in the same way the laptops weren't. The Mini has a number of significant upgrades to go before it jumps to Nehalem.
post #185 of 185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

We know that mobile Nehalem isn't coming until the end of the year but the Mini won't be delayed because of that in the same way the laptops weren't. The Mini has a number of significant upgrades to go before it jumps to Nehalem.

First post whose only goal is to get you to go to his site equals SPAM.
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