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Apple releases public beta of Safari 4 browser - Page 4

post #121 of 278
I am a graphics person and I hate navigating website histories and favorites manually by trying to read incomprehensible lines of gibberish like showthread.php?t=95519&page=3. I need to see graphical elements so the top sites UI and history coverflow UI are welcome additions for me. This will definitely improve my user experience! Thanks Apple!
post #122 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

1) coverflow history doesn't show 'thumbnail' of SSL sites... just grey page with lock icon. If you use a lot of ssl pages, it makes the feature pretty ugly/useless.
2) ok, I know I'm just blind, but where is the 'home' icon anywhere on the page?
3) don't understand the griping about the tabs in the title bar. Seems like a better use of lost space, and dragging works fine, even with tons of tabs open.
4) can't find a way to import my Firefox favorites... if I could do that, I'd probably switch now.

Any change in in interface, no matter how trivial, takes a bit to get used to. The question always becomes, can I devote a day to just get used to it?
I can't get my wife to switch from Thunderbird to Mail because she doesn't see the learningCurve/benefits ratio as being worth if. Others of us just switch to keep things interesting.

1) It will once you've visited those sites - once you do, then there will be a snapshot of the page instead of the lock icon

2) Go to VIEW > CUSTOMIZE TOOLBAR... then insert the home icon into the toolbar...

3) I agree - I like it much better

4) Download Foxmarks for Firefox, create account, upload them to the cloud then download Foxmarks for Safari and pull them from the cloud - or at least that's how I get my bookmarks synced between the two. Not sure if you mean the same thing when you're saying favorites...
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Mac mini 2.26 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 4GB DDR3 SDRAM, 320GB HDD
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post #123 of 278
[QUOTE=kim kap sol;1380457In you want to move a Safari window and you like tabs, good luck clicking part of the titlebar that isn't a "rip a tab out" grab-handle widget or a close widget.[/QUOTE]

Really? I got it on the first try. Are you using common sense and grabbing near the top?
post #124 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Thanks! I was about to ask about that before going through the whole installation rigmarole. Heading for the download now. FAB, Virgil.

Just keep staking those vampires through the heart! (and don't listen to your editor)

1Password requires an input hack so it's broken right now I think (I don't use it).
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post #125 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Safari 4 looks effing amazing but breaks 1Password. Fail.

For 1Password and PithHelmet you have to edit their respective plist files to include the latest version of Safari. After doing that both work fine.

1Password: Control-click on 1Password, select Show Package Contents, go to Contents/Resources/SupportedBrowsers.plist, open it with Text Edit and in the Safari entry change MaxBundleVersion to 5528.16

PithHelmet: Go to Library/Application Support/SIMBL/Plugins/PithHelmet.bundle, control-click on it, select Show Package Contents, go to Contents/Info.plist, open it with Text Edit and change MaxBundleVersion to 5528.16
post #126 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

Where did the "Merge all windows" option go?

As others have mentioned, I like Chrome's ability to drag and drop and merge and pull out and put back tabs a lot better.

I will also be waiting for plug-ins and the ability to disable them individually rather than all or none

I also liked the ability to close tabs that I'm not currently viewing, can't do that anymore

Not sure what you mean here.

"Merge all Windows" is still there in the Windows menu.

Tabs behave exactly the same in Safari as Chrome (except the separate process thing I guess). Pulling out a tab results in a new window, putting it back in merges the windows, clicking on non-active Tabs closes them just as you want. None of the behaviour you are saying is missing is actually missing AFAICS.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #127 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTisNUM1 View Post

I thought i would give it another try but to no avail.

I reset my disk permissions thinking that, that was the problem, reset Safari 3 before i did the install of Safari 4 and BOOM! Unexpected Error message and i never get to see the Safari window.

If anybody can give me an explanation as to why this is happening to me, i would greatly appreciate it. I've deleted the .plist in hoping it would fix it but i got nothing.

If you don't have the latest security updates this would happen. I would make sure that you use Software Update before trying again just to eliminate that as a possible reason.
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post #128 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

No way to disable Google suggestions? So every key I press Google has to know about it now, it's not enough that they know the final search.

I don't understand you people with privacy paranoia. Are *you* so important that you think that Google is specifically interested in determining what sites *you* are visiting? Do you really believe that when you type something or click something, your name, address, and blood type are attached to the search results, and someone at Google is saying, "wow, look at the sites ascii's browsing"?
post #129 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

2) ok, I know I'm just blind, but where is the 'home' icon anywhere on the page?

Click on the Sprocket icon and then choose Customize Toolbar... to add the Homepage button.

Your other concerns are valid, but I imagine that Apple will be working on those as they seem like a natural step. I also think that Apple will follow Google's Chrome by making each tab a separate process but that such a low level redesign just wasn't possible for this release.
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post #130 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Assuming he’s right and 1Password indeed doesn’t (yet) work in Safari 4, let’s just get things straight. 1Password’s Safari integration is an input manager hack. There are no supported plugin APIs to enable what 1Password does. Apple can’t “break” something they never supported in the first place.

Oh, for crying out loud. Ask a simple question and get a pedantic lesson on what "officially supported" means. Let's get something else straight. Safari can't fill in user names and passwords on all sites. If I want to use very strong and thus difficult to remember passwords, Safari's autofill won't work on those sites and I'm forced to go look up the passwords. Hence, 1Password. Once Safari autofill works everywhere, then you can talk about how Safari doesn't need to support this or that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Londor View Post

For 1Password and PithHelmet you have to edit their respective plist files to include the latest version of Safari. After doing that both work fine.

1Password: Control-click on 1Password, select Show Package Contents, go to Contents/Resources/SupportedBrowsers.plist, open it with Text Edit and in the Safari entry change MaxBundleVersion to 5528.16

Thank you. Just what I needed.
post #131 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

I also liked the ability to close tabs that I'm not currently viewing, can't do that anymore

Yes, you can. Have you moused over any tabs, yet? :-)
post #132 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

If you don't have the latest security updates this would happen. I would make sure that you use Software Update before trying again just to eliminate that as a possible reason.

It is installed. I really want to use it too.
post #133 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordisco View Post

Gmail works on my PC running Safari 4, but it does not work on my Mac.

G Mail was down
Gmail problems
post #134 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Not sure what you mean here.

"Merge all Windows" is still there in the Windows menu.

Thanks, I thought that was oddly gone too. I think that I, like many others think that the Menu bar was removed in favour of only the Sprocket icon. You have to Show Menu Bar before you can see the Windows drop down menu to see Merge All Windows. Frankly, I like not having the Menu Bar so having the option to Merge All Windows within the Sprocket icon of even as a right-click on the Tab Bar would be ideal.
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post #135 of 278
Trying it out on 2.5 Ghz 17" Macbook Pro (made just before the unibodies).

So far:
\The track pad zooming could be a little more accurate. It is far easier to just use the command -/+

The fact that when you zoom, it zooms the page, not just the text. This is excellent for people who have the 17" laptop screens, are at the highest display settings, and can't see the tiny text. Usually I would have to zoom the text and it would mess up the format of some pages. Now everything works out great!

\Going forward and back using multi-touch works out the same way as it did before

\Doesn't really seem to load pages any faster; could be my connection though.

LOVE the Top Sites viewer

LOVE the Coverflow Bookmark/History bar.

DO NOT like the above tabs; I wish they went back to the old style. This would be more of a problem if I didn't know the keyboard shortcuts. It's also kind of weird to move around now; but that's just something that I could acclimate to.

Did I mention that Coverflow is really slick and smooth?

Overall interfacing is smooth and quick.

Summation
I was pretty happy with Safari 3 and it seems like I'll love this new one, I'll just need to adjust to the tabs thing.

Note:
Starting it out was kind of slow because I guess it had to take all the information about my browsing habits, afterwards it worked pretty fast.
post #136 of 278
One "feature" that's still missing, is that when you click a link that opens in a new tab, and then close that new tab, you don't get sent back to the tab you were on when you clicked the link, but just to the next tab in the list.

Camino (and I suppose FF as well) sends you back to the tab you were last on, which is much much more logical if you ask me.
post #137 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

Assuming hes right and 1Password indeed doesnt (yet) work in Safari 4, lets just get things straight. 1Passwords Safari integration is an input manager hack. There are no supported plugin APIs to enable what 1Password does. Apple cant break something they never supported in the first place.

There will be an update imminently, I am sure. Those guys update frequently and are quick to respond

Love the new S4 and I prefer the tabs on top - people just don't like change, I think. A lot of complaining at minor issues.
post #138 of 278
Okay i finally got it to work! I had the Glims plugin installed and had to get rid of it ( i turned most of the stuff off anyway ). It works great. It's snippy and renders pages way faster than Safari 3. Any clue as to when this will be out?
post #139 of 278
I've already backdated to 3. Can't stand the tabs on top plus you can't close inactive tabs without first switching to it. I may have to move to firefox as much as i hate it.
post #140 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple has adopted the tab-in-menu-bar layout of Google's Chrome, but did they adopt the most important aspect of Chrome, the sandboxed processes of each tab?

It would seem not, but (humorously) no one seems to notice and a lot are talking about how Safari 4 is now "better than chrome."

I guess moving the tabs to the menu bar and inverting them copied the appearance of chrome which now means "chrome sucks!" or something of that sort?? This shows why you should never take a comment in an internet forum seriously I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

There were also two other issues with Opera passing. One was that it was only in an internal build,not a public one when it claimed to have passed. The second was that there was discovered an error with Hickson's test that pushed Opera back to 99/100. WebKit was the first to get real 100/100 with perfect pixel matching.

Interesting details.

I found this quote on the Apple web page describing the "150 features":

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple

Acid 3 Compliance:
Safari is the first and only web browser to pass Acid 3.

Is this true?

I immediately went to Operas web site and there is nothing I can find that mentions Acid 3. A search of their site fails to do anything. I would have assumed Opera passes Acid 3 in it's shipping version by now.
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post #141 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by plum1030 View Post

I've already backdated to 3. Can't stand the tabs on top plus you can't close inactive tabs without first switching to it. I may have to move to firefox as much as i hate it.

This is totally possible in the Mac version. Not sure about the Windows one.
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post #142 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbwi View Post

On XP, how do I force Safari to open all links in a new Tab rather than a new window?

Same problem here (on XP). Don't know the answer.
post #143 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I immediately went to Operas web site and there is nothing I can find that mentions Acid 3. A search of their site fails to do anything. I would have assumed Opera passes Acid 3 in it's shipping version by now.

From the Wikipedia page it looks like Opera has still only received a 100/100 on an Alpha developers preview, which I assume is an internal build. But getting a 100/100 on Acid3 does not mean you have passed. You also have to render the page pixel-by-pixel perfectly and each test has to complete within a set time limit. The latter seems to be the hardest part to achieve. I know WebKit struggled with some of the tests for quite some time after the initial race between Presto and WebKit to get a perfect rendering score was over. It's like being able to get a perfect score on your SATs but if you need more time that alloted to do so then you ultimately fail. I'm glad that Hickson made time a factor for the test. I look for forward to Acid4.
PS: To the chagrin of the Presto team I think it was the WebKit team that found the error Acid3 that brought everyone's score down by one right after Opera passed. I also recall the Gecko team crying foul on the WebKit team for coding in an unethical or wrong or something way. I didn't really know what the Gecko team's problem was.
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post #144 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by plum1030 View Post

I've already backdated to 3. Can't stand the tabs on top plus you can't close inactive tabs without first switching to it. I may have to move to firefox as much as i hate it.

[1] There as a simple Terminal command to put the tabs back
[2] Hover over the tab you want to close to get the close icon

This is a beta not the final version. Feedback should go to Apple.
post #145 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by supremedesigner View Post

Interesting that Apple mentioned "built-in Firewire" since there is no FW included on the new MB. I don't think FW is required for Safari... but who does use FW for Safari? I think PR need to be more careful what to say. :P

No. "G3 with built-in firewire" easily identifies which of the old iMac G3s will work. I think these are the slot-load ones but "built-in firewire" is as descriptive.
post #146 of 278
Another way to think of the tabs:

The old titlebar, aside from about an inch on one end, was devoid of any useful function (not counting double-clicking to minimize, which still works). Now, instead of taking up screen real estate with the tab bar and titlebar, Safari 4 essentially gives us multiple selectable titlebars in one window. Kim kap sol's oft-quoted complaints are factually incorrect, so aside from the very subjective argument of "but they're ugly!", there's not that much wrong with 'em. The HIG is, in most cases, a valuable touchstone to have, but it shouldn't be the be-all and end-all just because it's there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AllenKids View Post

I hope the opposite, in fact I feel so strongly against this move, not only did I just write a feedback concerning this tweak, but also reinstalled safari 3 on my windows machine for its far more visually pleasing appearance. (A lot of animations are been abandoned by Safari 4 beta for windows, which is ludicrous also, now it's just a mediocre WebKit browser for windows with a mediocre interface, but without plug-ins. Well done, Apple)

[Windows XP's Luna is so outdated it looks ridiculous to say at least, especially the default bright blue theme; and Aero's window bezel tend to drive me crazy, not to mention the unnecessary transparent title bar (combined with Safari's new tabs position, seriously take the word messed-up to a new level ). BTW Win7 manage to make things worse somehow.]

OS X's marble on the other hand is a very good looking, un-intrusive UI kit, I would prefer more of these or the likings come to the windows world, screw the native UI of windows!!!

Pretty much everything you said there is grumbling about how god-awful Windows looks in general. If you like the stylings of Aqua that much, throw WindowBlinds on your PC and go to town. It is not Apple's responsibility to make a Windows application (even theirs) look like an application from a different OS (as proud as they might be of their own OS and its UI). The more native appearance on Windows is a plus, not a minus, because it doesn't stick out based on visual glitz in the window dressing (if you can refer to gray gradients as "glitz" on an OS that normally bludgeons you with neon titlebars), but instead sticks out based on its own merits as a web browser. Safari is a web browser, not a Get A Mac ad — at least not until you realize how nice it is, and that's as far as it should go.

[disclaimer]All of the above = IMO[/disclaimer]

Edit: I do miss the progress bar terribly, though, and hope they bring it back. Looking at it gives me an idea of whether a page is successfully loading or not, without having to wait forever for an error page to come up. Into the feedback bin she goes.
post #147 of 278
seems slower to me too, and why has the progress bar gone?
post #148 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluedalmatian View Post

seems slower to me too, and why has the progress bar gone?

That's interesting, I hadn't realized that it was missing until you mentioned it.. I wonder if it will be included in the final version. I get a mixed bag when it comes to load times. Some pages show up almost immediately and others.. not so much.
post #149 of 278
tabs on the top seem weird in windows, they are absolutely natural in mac os, the application menu is anyway above them, no, i wouldn't switch it back into safary 3 style. terrific coverflow view...
khm... thanks, apple. i believe i finally got the browser i'm gonna love...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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post #150 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boogerman2000 View Post

.... I get a mixed bag when it comes to load times. Some pages show up almost immediately and others.. not so much.

That's what I'm finding as well the more I use S4.

Ars and Anandtech load at blistering fast speed. Other sites seem about the same as S3.

I'm at work and my internet connection here isn't as good as at home. I'm curious how S4 does when I get home.
post #151 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

Oh, for crying out loud. Ask a simple question and get a pedantic lesson on what "officially supported" means. Let's get something else straight. Safari can't fill in user names and passwords on all sites. If I want to use very strong and thus difficult to remember passwords, Safari's autofill won't work on those sites and I'm forced to go look up the passwords. Hence, 1Password. Once Safari autofill works everywhere, then you can talk about how Safari doesn't need to support this or that.

Thank you. Just what I needed.

My point is simply that its not Safari that 'breaks' 1Password. If someone is using input manager to obtain functionality (not supported by Apple) instead of Plugin APIs, then its the calling app that 'broke', not Safari that 'broke it'.

I make the point not to be 'pedantic', but simply because its sounds too much like iPhone jailbroke folks who blame Apple when an update 'breaks' their favorite hack. Sorry, but its the hack that's at fault, not Apple.
post #152 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by ivan.rnn01 View Post

tabs on the top seem weird in windows, they are absolutely natural in mac os, the application menu is anyway above them, no, i wouldn't switch it back into safary 3 style. terrific coverflow view...
khm... thanks, apple. i believe i finally got the browser i'm gonna love...

It's weird, I use tabs in Vista but not in OS X at home. Even with the "Tabs on Top" feature, it sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the relatively clean 3.x Safari. Sadly, while I hate the organization of IE7 as a browser, the tabs are exactly as they should be for usability: right in the middle of the window, below the address bar, and promient. It's incrementally better than before for Safari, but like I said, I think IE takes it for tabbed browsing.
post #153 of 278
Anyone have a link for CSS 3 in action? I'm curious about the animations and reflections especially...
post #154 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by plum1030 View Post

I've already backdated to 3. Can't stand the tabs on top plus you can't close inactive tabs without first switching to it. I may have to move to firefox as much as i hate it.

I don't know if you are referring to the Windows version, otherwise there is a [x] on the left side of the tab you want to close when you mouse over to it.
post #155 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Thanks, I thought that was oddly gone too. I think that I, like many others think that the Menu bar was removed in favour of only the Sprocket icon. You have to Show Menu Bar before you can see the Windows drop down menu to see Merge All Windows. Frankly, I like not having the Menu Bar so having the option to Merge All Windows within the Sprocket icon of even as a right-click on the Tab Bar would be ideal.

I was assuming you were on a Mac also, where the menu bar never disappears. Thus my confusion.
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post #156 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

Anyone have a link for CSS 3 in action? I'm curious about the animations and reflections especially...

Below are two postings from the WebKit official blog. Note: The second link will require you to click on the item to go to a page that will show the CSS in action. They all work with Safari 4 and Safari for the iPhone.
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post #157 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogun View Post

Anyone have a link for CSS 3 in action? I'm curious about the animations and reflections especially...

Here:

http://webkit.org/blog-files/leaves/index.html

http://webkit.org/blog-files/bounce.html

http://webkit.org/blog-files/pulse.html

Edit: too late
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post #158 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by chaurjyh View Post

Hey guys, is it me or do u guys feel that safari's active window colour shade is a bit less grey than the overall system? Cos now its hard to distinguish which window is the open one..

Yep they have the color scheme for the tabs reversed.
post #159 of 278
Very nice.
How come no beta tester has ever thought to implement a way to sort the bookmarks,
like Firefox does since ages ?
Does Apple, so clever in so many things, suggest that I should sort manually my 1200 + bookmarks (and a dozen more every month) ?
A joke.
I'll keep Firefox 3.
post #160 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Ah...I guess that explains why the "Hide Tab Bar" option is still in the View menu. Still...why is it there is there's no way to opt out of this madness without resorting to the CLI?

If you do not like the CLI you could just edit the .plist file.
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