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Apple releases public beta of Safari 4 browser - Page 6

post #201 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

another issue:

how come even after i tell safari to open links in new tabs rather than a new window it STILL opens it in a new window?

annoying.

And how did you tell Safari to do that????
post #202 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shunnabunich View Post

Pretty much everything you said there is grumbling about how god-awful Windows looks in general. If you like the stylings of Aqua that much, throw WindowBlinds on your PC and go to town. It is not Apple's responsibility to make a Windows application (even theirs) look like an application from a different OS (as proud as they might be of their own OS and its UI). The more native appearance on Windows is a plus, not a minus, because it doesn't stick out based on visual glitz in the window dressing (if you can refer to gray gradients as "glitz" on an OS that normally bludgeons you with neon titlebars), but instead sticks out based on its own merits as a web browser. Safari is a web browser, not a Get A Mac ad at least not until you realize how nice it is, and that's as far as it should go.

Windows UI in general is inferior than OS X's, at least aesthetic wise. And there is no HIG to follow whatsoever, pretty much every major software maker compose its own interface arbitrarily, the use of native UI ellements also vary. As I mentioned before, MS is its own worst offender. I don't see why Apple can't bring its own very functional visual cue to the game. Antivirus Software sticks out, Office's ribbon sticks out, Acrobat sticks out, Nero' bloat suite sticks out, Zune software sticks out, EVERYTHING sticks out!!!

After all, dumbing down is a crime, so is "ugly down". Safari 4 for windows also shouldn't be a demo of how low Apple is willing to go.

And about the Stardock software, yeah, that's what I called Vanityware, throw out some shining object, slow the system down, really blingy ,really useful.

The title tabs works better on OS X than Windows, I like neither.
post #203 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And how did you tell Safari to do that????


Yes how did you do that?

Also, is anyone else wanting their desktop to be the Top Sites screen?
post #204 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core View Post

And how did you tell Safari to do that????

Quote:
Originally Posted by zenatek View Post

Yes how did you do that?

post #205 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Wow...Apple has really gone out of its way to fuck up all HI guidelines with Safari 4.

In you want to move a Safari window and you like tabs, good luck clicking part of the titlebar that isn't a "rip a tab out" grab-handle widget or a close widget.

Although the concept is interesting, in practice, this tab UI is horrendous.

Everything else about Safari 4 is excellent though...nice use of Cover Flow and Core Animation for the top sites preview wall. Great history and bookmark search. And full page zoom is finally enabled for the unwashed masses. Google search suggestions. Overall, this version of Safari is the biggest update since version 1.0...too bad about the unconventional tab UI.

In terminal you can change the tabs back to the bottom and you can do other things like restore the aqua progress bar:

http://swedishcampground.com/safari-...en-preferences
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Switching From Windows on Nov. 30th 2007
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post #206 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

There will be an update imminently, I am sure. Those guys update frequently and are quick to respond

Love the new S4 and I prefer the tabs on top - people just don't like change, I think. A lot of complaining at minor issues.

Commenting on my own post! Oh, the narcissism!

But seriously - 1password has been updated and supports S4. That is, you must go into 1password prefs and tick Include Beta Versions.
post #207 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zandros View Post

Agreed. Even more awful is that I have to hit the ribbed part to reorder the tabs

What where they thinking?

They weren't.

Cant stand that I dont have room to move the window because I have 12 tabs,

Shame on you Apple
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post #208 of 278
Gotta love the arm-chair HIG Gurus.
post #209 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Uh, I seriously doubt you're having any of the problems you claim to be having. It's clearly obvious that you just like to complain. I have a window with 12 tabs open... and I can grab a title bar and move the window around without ANY problems. I can grab the "move" widget, just fine as well. You shouldn't be so damned rude and ignorant to think that your experience is the same EVERYONE else is having.

Having said all of that... I do prefer the old method for tabs as well, but for aesthetic reasons, not because it is more or less functional and intuitive. Took me all of 30 seconds to get used to the new method.

If the window is maximized, you can't drag it around (shouldn't really need to, that's the point of maximized). If the window is less than maximized, you can drag it around no prob. I kinda wish the green button in the osx traffic lights did what the Windows maximize button does... I don't like manually resizing windows in mac to make them full screen...
post #210 of 278
Is there a way to have the entire URL bar highlight when clicking on it? It takes three or four fast clicks to get that to work on Safari. FF is instant.
post #211 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBigD23 View Post

Is there a way to have the entire URL bar highlight when clicking on it? It takes three or four fast clicks to get that to work on Safari. FF is instant.

That's an AppKit Design decision that goes beyond URL wishlists.

I suppose they could subclass NSTextField with NSURITextField and have that as alternative behavior, but the point is to be able to have finer control over the textfield you are editing.

Look at it from the opposite view: I want to change a subpath inside that URL which OS X defaults to by being able to double click a string between subpaths.

The following next click highlights the entire field.

In Linux it inserts a cursor at the point of click entry. Then I double click and it highlights the entire textfield.

I have to click, then click drag release to get the same affect I see with a single click in OS X.

That subclass would override the standard NSTextfield select behavior with a boolean configuration option in preferences.
post #212 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

My point is simply that its not Safari that 'breaks' 1Password. If someone is using input manager to obtain functionality (not supported by Apple) instead of Plugin APIs, then its the calling app that 'broke', not Safari that 'broke it'.

You're arguing semantics. Safari changed. It provided the action. By definition, it did the breaking, for those of us who believe in the transitive. You obviously prefer the intransitive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theBigD23 View Post

Is there a way to have the entire URL bar highlight when clicking on it? It takes three or four fast clicks to get that to work on Safari. FF is instant.

Haven't gotten around to installing it yet, but if it's like older versions, click on the border of the URL box, not in it. Takes a bit of precision, but you soon get the hang of it. That gives you options with a single or double click that Firefox doesn't. You can select the whole thing at once (single click on box border) or you can position the cursor within the URL (single click in URL) or you can drag-select an entire section of the URL for deletion or editing (double click, hold and drag). Firefox would require one click, two clicks or four clicks for the same actions.
post #213 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londor View Post


That works but outbound links open in a new window. Why does it do that? I'll go to a certain page and click on the "forum" link and it opens a completely new window but in other pages it doesn't, wtf?
post #214 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

They weren't.

Cant stand that I dont have room to move the window because I have 12 tabs,

Shame on you Apple

12 open tabs? Whaaa. At any rate...

What are you talking about? Click and hold on any tab to move the window. \
post #215 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

You're arguing semantics. Safari changed. It provided the action. By definition, it did the breaking, for those of us who believe in the transitive. You obviously prefer the intransitive.



Haven't gotten around to installing it yet, but if it's like older versions, click on the border of the URL box, not in it. Takes a bit of precision, but you soon get the hang of it. That gives you options with a single or double click that Firefox doesn't. You can select the whole thing at once (single click on box border) or you can position the cursor within the URL (single click in URL) or you can drag-select an entire section of the URL for deletion or editing (double click, hold and drag). Firefox would require one click, two clicks or four clicks for the same actions.

He's not arguing semantics. He's arguing a broken hack that doesn't leverage the Plugin API sanitized by Webkit for such purposes.

It's up to the third party developer to keep up on the new Plugin API architecture that has been in trunk for nearly 12 months.
post #216 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

That works but outbound links open in a new window. Why does it do that? I'll go to a certain page and click on the "forum" link and it opens a completely new window but in other pages it doesn't, wtf?

How do you have Tabs configured?
post #217 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by rnaoncfixd View Post

Trying it out on 2.5 Ghz 17" Macbook Pro (made just before the unibodies).

So far:
\The track pad zooming could be a little more accurate. It is far easier to just use the command -/+

What is this trackpad zooming you speak of? You mean the Leopard default zooming? Or something else I'm missing here?

I keep finding myself pinching or pulling apart pages on my trackpad, so I'd love the same functionality from mobileSafari somehow finding its way on here. I think that dream is out at least until I pick up a new MBP.
post #218 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

How do you have Tabs configured?

As far as I can tell, the screenshot posted above is the only place where link behaviour can be set, and there's no option to make off-site links open in a tab not in a window. Not a showstopper, but I'll miss it.

My other two niggles so far; when you click on a link, then go back to the page you clicked from using Back, Firefox puts a dotted box round the link you came from - this feature isn't in Safari 4 (don't believe it was in Safari 3 either). This is a feature I relied heavily on (for forum browsing etc) without even noticing, and I find it almost impossible to use my favourite sites without it. Second (I might just not have found it yet) it doesn't seem possible to add the currently displayed URL directly to the Hot Sites screen; you have to wait for it to appear there because Safari decides you've been there enough times, then pin it?

I've told the spider in the corner about most of these
post #219 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

He's not arguing semantics. He's arguing a broken hack that doesn't leverage the Plugin API sanitized by Webkit for such purposes.

It's up to the third party developer to keep up on the new Plugin API architecture that has been in trunk for nearly 12 months.

Aren't Input Managers deprecated? Didn't Apple warn everyone that they plan to remove that functionality? The makers of IMs are at fault for any Safari 4 incompatibilities.
post #220 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by treschny View Post

I kinda wish the green button in the osx traffic lights did what the Windows maximize button does... I don't like manually resizing windows in mac to make them full screen...

Indeed - this is top of my niggle list for OS X...
post #221 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuppingmaster View Post

What is this trackpad zooming you speak of? You mean the Leopard default zooming? Or something else I'm missing here?

I keep finding myself pinching or pulling apart pages on my trackpad, so I'd love the same functionality from mobileSafari somehow finding its way on here. I think that dream is out at least until I pick up a new MBP.

On the multitouch Macbooks you can use the pinch zoom gesture to change the font size on the page. But the OP of that comment is right, it's horrendous in S4 - way too sensitive. In S3 it was fine.
post #222 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Well fuck you too, pal.

Ha! I'm glad you said this. I was reading through the forum thinking "what the hell? Did someone declare it Insult the Fuck out of Kim Kap Day?"
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post #223 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

Not true. Opera passed the Acid 3 test about half a day *after* Safari. I know it's picky, but it happens to be true.

If you are being picky Webkit != Safari

In terms of released browsers Opera 10 alpha beats Safari 4 beta by almost 3 months.

Any if you are being really picky both browsers still do not have the complete pass, in terms of 100/100, pixel to pixel and smooth animation. Hint: Click the A on a completed test to see any errors. Safari 4 and Opera 10 both report problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPepper View Post

Tabs on top is a Chrome feature that I hated, and Safari adopted it.

You mean an Opera feature

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erunno View Post

Google should have patented their tab UI concept to let Apple have a taste of their own patent trolling medicine.

I don't see how they could seeing as Google copied it from Opera.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

From the Wikipedia page it looks like Opera has still only received a 100/100 on an Alpha developers preview, which I assume is an internal build.

Assumed wrong. Opera 10 alpha has been out since December 3.

http://my.opera.com/desktopteam/blog...-alpha-is-here

When it achieved 100/100 and pixel perfect. Although it still hasn't completed the smooth animation test.



Overall Safari 4 is a good update to Safari but I haven't really seen anything to get me to switch from Opera. So Safari will be my fall back browser.
post #224 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Londor View Post


Mine does. No roblem here.
post #225 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

They weren't.

Cant stand that I dont have room to move the window because I have 12 tabs,

Shame on you Apple

Settle down.

After having spent a good part of the day checking out the new features and lately reading Macworld's review (http://www.macworld.com/article/1390...firstlook.html), I am quite sold on Safari 4.

No problems with tabs, as it conforms with real live file folders who have them along the top. I have suggested to Apple to add "Cascade" so that I could see all the open windows (stacked) and their tabs at once.

Click and hold on any part of name in the tab to move the window. Since all my bookmarked names are 4-letter or less acronyms, I don't have a problem grabbing and moving the page. Notice that the tab on the page you are no on is nearly an inch and a half wide which gives more than enough room to grab onto. Incidentally, I just made up a couple of a dozen single-letter titled tabs. When I opened them all in tabs, I could get 16 of them across my Macbook Pro 15 window. They being about half an inch each, was more than enough room move the page.
post #226 of 278
It's better then Safari 3.
- Quicker
- Stable.
- The tabs-on-top thing is nice and the "+" button is a welcomed addition.
- The 3D galore history thing is slow, but nice.
- There seems to be better memory management - it looks like S4 takes less memory.
- Didn't like the fact that they removed the blue progress from the address menu - it was a comfortable thing. Don't know if someone already posted, but there is a way to return it:

"restore the blue loading bar behind the URL - HOW TO
For those screaming to have this feature back...

DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign and DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle

When both set to NO it restores the blue loading bar behind the URL. Also puts a page loading spinner in the tab itself, which looks odd with the new tabs.

$ defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool NO
$ defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool NO
"

All in all - Safari is better for me.
Cheers.
post #227 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by cordisco View Post

Gmail works on my PC running Safari 4, but it does not work on my Mac.

Gmail + Safari 4 works perfectly fine on my PowerMac G5.
Check if there is some addon that is causing problems...
post #228 of 278
haven't they added "top sites" to those bookmarks & co managed via the cover flow view? 3D-ed legacy coming from chrome looks not bad, sure, yet it wouldn't be worse to have all eggs in one basket too...

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post #229 of 278
TABS
Why not introducing the little bubble in the top right corner?! Like they have done allready in Mail & Pages?! It's a great way to get rid of all the commands (and tabs) when you don't need them!

iCAL & ADDRESS BOOK
Here's a thought to introduce a feature from Mail I found very useful. Make dates & addresses selectable! It's a great way to add events to your calender with a direct link to the web page!

These two allready existing features would make this great Beta even more otherwordly
post #230 of 278
oh no! when are they going to get rid of those horrendous aqua sliders?!
post #231 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crowley View Post

It's a beta people, if you don't like it send feedback.

Good point. I asked for a Reload button in the customize menu option, I have to think they simply forgot to put it in there. I also agree the tabs seem to be the wrong side of the menu bar or at the very least should be movable. I really like the iTunes left side area but i want mine open all the time and there seems no way to do this.

I find the images of web pages a logical development, it is far easier to recognize a web page visually for me and out of hundreds of book marks this makes my life far easier. My 2 cents on this: Add a 'go get the all bookmark images' (in background) option like iTunes' get album art work option and why refuse to image a secure locked page (such as a bank log in) just make an image of the log in page.

Overall I am a total convert and look forward to the next update.
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post #232 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by theBigD23 View Post

Is there a way to have the entire URL bar highlight when clicking on it? It takes three or four fast clicks to get that to work on Safari. FF is instant.

Yup. Click the favicon at the lefty of the URL (been that way for years).
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post #233 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

He's not arguing semantics. He's arguing a broken hack that doesn't leverage the Plugin API sanitized by Webkit for such purposes.

It's up to the third party developer to keep up on the new Plugin API architecture that has been in trunk for nearly 12 months.

You sound like you're agreeing with the guy who started this whole argument (for no reason than he wanted to be pedantic), but he contradicts you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

There are no supported plugin APIs to enable what 1Password does.

All I did was ask if Safari works with 1Password or not, then all of a sudden you people decide it must become an argument about which is the broken and which is the breaker. Does it even matter? It's either broken or it's not! Get a grip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elixir View Post

That works but outbound links open in a new window. Why does it do that? I'll go to a certain page and click on the "forum" link and it opens a completely new window but in other pages it doesn't, wtf?

The option to open in tabs applies to links coming from other apps. It cannot override links with Javascript that tell Safari to open a new window.
post #234 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post

I don't understand you people with privacy paranoia. Are *you* so important that you think that Google is specifically interested in determining what sites *you* are visiting? Do you really believe that when you type something or click something, your name, address, and blood type are attached to the search results, and someone at Google is saying, "wow, look at the sites ascii's browsing"?

Cheney asked Google to do this but they refused ...
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post #235 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post

All I did was ask if Safari works with 1Password or not, then all of a sudden you people decide it must become an argument about which is the broken and which is the breaker. Does it even matter? It's either broken or it's not! Get a grip.

Get a grip indeed. Whoever stated that Safari was to blame, and Apple better fix it... they were just being ridiculous.

APIs are a contract between software components - step outside those APIs, and you're on your own. That's just standard practice. If what you rely on is not an established API, but an undocumented behavior, then you risk it going away or being altered in a way that makes your software not work. That was the risk you took. Sometimes it's worth it, sometimes it's not. (It's rather like a grey market reseller whining that new security measures at a loading dock are putting him out of business.)

The funny thing is... that isn't what happened here. 1Password simply had a 'max version' string embedded in it so that it *would not work* with newer versions of Safari. Period. It's a simple thing to fix - dive into the bundle, alter the string to include Safari4b's build number, and relaunch.

So yeah, it kind of was 1Password's fault, just not in the way anyone is arguing.
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post #236 of 278
The uninstaller doesn't delete Safari 4. It creates a folder called Safari 3 in the Applications folder. After you run the uninstaller, Safari 4 no longer runs. You have to delete Safari 4 manually, then move Safari 3 back to the Applications folder.
post #237 of 278
am i still feeling kinda uncomfortable? wait... where's that lovely reload button in the windows version
a-ha... search box isn't `google only' anymore.... yahoo is proposed as well. so they're probably moving towards firefox custom searches...

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post #238 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Gotta love the arm-chair HIG Gurus.

So we're not allowed to discuss the UI changes? Come on mdriftmeyer. Be serious for a second. Some of us are discussing a clear problem in the way the window behaves. There is a clear problem with the lack of white (gray) space to move the browser window around.

Instead of calling people arm-chair HIG Gurus, open a fucking window up in Safari, open 8 tabs and do an honest test of the usability of "tabs on top".

I have a browser window open with a modest 8 tabs which takes up about 1000 pixels of width. But out of those 1000 pixels I have 8*12px tab-close widgets, 8*16px grip widgets, 3*16px close/min/fit-to-content widgets and a new-tab widget that takes up about 24px.

Close to 300 pixels out of 1000 pixels are in my fucking way. Almost 1/3. With 10 tabs open...we've got exactly 1/3 of the titlebar that simply will get in the way of moving the window.

Don't "arm-chair HIG Guru" us.

edit: Also, there's no more "well if you don't like it, don't use it" excuses that can be thrown around. Apple is no foisting this garbage tab implementation on everyone. There are no options to not use tabs anymore other than try to avoid eye contact with it. The options to not use tabs or to revert to the old tab design is only accessible to people that don't mind using Terminal.

edit2: However, as I have said before, if the default behavior for a click and drag of the titlebar is to move the window and a click-pause-drag is required to rip tabs out or move them around, then most of my gripes will be gone. If they fix the color gradient issue when a window is inactive, all but one of my gripes will be gone. My last gripe would simply be lack of calming white space and too much clutter...but at least the usability would be fine.
post #239 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak View Post


The option to open in tabs applies to links coming from other apps. It cannot override links with Javascript that tell Safari to open a new window.

Firefox does it
post #240 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by YNWA View Post

When it achieved 100/100 and pixel perfect. Although it still hasn't completed the smooth animation test.

As previously stated, it still hasn't passed if it achieves 100/100 too slowly. Also, Presto would have the been first browser engine to get 100/100 if the error wasn't discovered shortly after it reached a 100/100 rendering. WebKit passed (I mean everything) on 25-SEPT-2008.
Regardless of who was first the fact that this test has allowed for such positive competition and the push for more current standards to be in place faster is a great thing. Microsoft has even made a huge jump toward open standards, though it pales in comparison to others it's a big first step for MS.


edit: Webkit team achieved 100/100 rendering, not a passing score on 26-MAR-2008 with Ian acknowledging Opera's 100/100 rendering and the error the next day, which put Opera back to 99/100.

"Making a fancy new data structure was a fair bit more complicated than my last two fixes, so I was hacking on this for a couple of days. On Wednesday morning, I heard that Opera was going to announce an Acid3 score of 98/100. The WebKit developers who had been noodling on Acid3 realized that we had fixes in progress for most of the remaining issues, and could likely pass the test by the end of the day, and get it out there.

At this point, I would like to commend the Opera developers for their achievement. At the time they posted the 100/100 screenshot, we had no idea there was a bug in test 79, and hoped at best to be the first to release a 100/100 public build, and both our teams could get some credit and positive exposure. It was not until we were fixing the very last bug in our code that we spotted the bug in the test, as you’ll see below.

Anyway, once we realized it was game on and Opera was much further ahead than we expected, we decided to complete our fixes. Eric fixed handling of charset encoding errors in XML, Antti got two SMIL test fixes in, and I cleaned this patch up, made a regression test, and landed it in r31324 and r31325. (We have a policy that every fix has to come with an automated regression test, no matter how much we’d like to rush - this is so we can move faster in the long run, by having a comprehensive regression test suite that will catch mistakes. Even with all that I had a bit of a commit oops but the team caught it right away, thus the two revisions.)

[...]

I’d also like to thank Opera for giving us some serious competition and making this a real horse race. We have huge respect for their developers and all the work they do on Web standards."

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