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Apple's Safari 4 UI changes hint at plans for Snow Leopard

post #1 of 145
Thread Starter 
The new public beta release of Safari 4 reveals the deepest look yet at the future of Apple's software, hinting at what's in store for the closely guarded user interface revamp coming in Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard, as well as appropriating ideas from other browsers and adding some original flourishes, some of which go boldly and decisively past the company's existing human interface design guidelines.

Something old, new, borrowed, blue

Some of the changes in Safari 4 are borrowed from external sources, some are new things that will likely migrate into future versions of Mac OS X, and some are features of Leopard or other Apple products that are just now making it to Safari.

Among the new changes is support for 'resolution independent' scaling of the entire web page, just like the iPhone. Rather than only bumping up the size of text and destroying the layout of the page, as web browsers have historically offered to do, Safari 4 allows users to scale the entire page up and down (below, scaled down), either using size buttons in the toolbar or multi-touch trackpad gestures on late modeled MacBook models.



Apple has also spruced up the Google search field to bring it up to par with other browsers, presenting Google Suggest results, Bookmark matches, and integration in-page search all in one instantaneous drop down of search results (below). There's also a curious holdover in the package: the Aqua blue scroll bar. For years, iTunes has signaled Apple's intent to drop the bubbly Aqua bar, so its appearance in the new Safari 4 is somewhat of a surprise.



Standards-based web development

To make standards-based web development even more attractive, Apple has expanded and improved upon its web development tools in Safari 4 to help debug, profile, and optimize the performance of JavaScript, CSS, and HTML code. The Web Inspector window (below top) can now be viewed within the browser window (below bottom).

The new Safari 4 raises the bar for other browsers in supporting HTML 5, which allows developers to build Rich Internet Applications (RIAs) using web standards rather than relying upon external web plugins such as Adobe's Flash or Microsoft's Silverlight. Other browsers, including Google Chrome, Firefox, and Opera are also actively working to support HTML 5 specification.

The new standard includes support for offline operations, allowing users to load RIAs that will continue to work even if they lose their Internet connection. These apps can also make use of HTML 5 databases, which work like huge web cookies to store data managed by a web app. This would allow a web application such as GMail to keep a local store of the user's email for access even when not connected to the Internet, for example.

Safari 4 also supports CSS Animations, Effects, and Canvas standards and supplies a big boost to JavaScript rendering via the Nitro JavaScript Engine, formerly called SquirrelFish Extreme. Together with HTML 5 support, these standards enable developers to do anything from adding animation effects to building full applications that run both within the browser and on mobile devices such as the iPhone, which already supports these standards.





Borrowing Google Chrome's "Tabs on Top"

While Safari originally borrowed the idea of tabbed windows from Opera and later introduced drag and drop tabs, the latest version takes a cue from Google's Chrome browser, which flipped its browser tabs upwards to poke into the unused space of the web browser's title bar.

This almost seems taboo; a window's title bar has long been a sacred cow designated solely for grabbing the window and presenting its title. Apple's earlier experiments to remove the title bar's stripes and slowly blend it into the body of the window in iTunes and later Tiger's unified look were rather conservative steps that were still met with some gasps from users resisting change.

While earlier versions of Safari made tabs an optional feature users had to activate themselves, Safari 4 takes the rather bold step of making its upward facing tabs replace the title bar all together, turning the former wasted space into a functional strip of tabs. The middle of any tab can still be used to grip and move the entire window, but the result is a more complex and advanced looking window, at least once several tabs are added to it.

The new convention also makes dragging a tab into its own window much more intuitive. There's now a gripper icon presented for each tab; simply grab it and the tab can be repositioned in the bar or dragged out into its own freestanding window. This drag behavior isn't new, but how to use it is much more obvious. Safari's title bar tabs (Apple calls it "Tabs on Top") may likely make it into other applications that make use of tabs sooner than later, perhaps even becoming a defining feature of many Snow Leopard apps.



Streamlined Toolbar

The original Safari aimed to present the web as efficiently as possible, paring the app's window frame down to nearly nothing and incorporating the loading progress bar into the URL address field itself. Safari 4 simplifies things even further, leaving one button for adding a bookmark of the current page and adding a refresh icon at the end of the URL field. This turns into the familiar spinning gear icon when the page is actually loading.

Combined with the new title bar tabs, Safari 4 sports the highest density interface found in Apple's consumer software. That's a surprising move for the company, which has historically aimed at targeting simplified needs of entry level users, at least outside of its Pro Apps such as Final Cut and Logic. It also suggests greater user interface sophistication on the horizon for Snow Leopard.

From Leopard to Safari: Cover Flow

Safari's bookmarks page now shows bookmark collections using animated Cover Flow thumbnails of the pages themselves, just like iTunes first demonstrated and as the Leopard Finder adopted shortly afterward. This adds some strong branding to Apple's unique visualizer, which has also shown up in the iPhone and in iPods.

Cover Flow also allows users to rapidly review hundreds of pages when performing a full text search across their web history, something Safari could already do, but which presented results as rather opaque lists of URLs and page names. Now you can visually scan over actual representations of the query-matching web pages themselves, which is far more intuitive when trying to find information from a previous browsing session.



Borrowing Apple TV's video wall: Top Sites

Another feature of Google Chrome adopted in Safari 4 is the presentation of recently viewed sites as a starting point. Apple presents these Top Sites as an encircling grid of thumbnails similar to the video wall in Apple TV ads. It also supplies a way to edit and rearrange this grid, intuitively with drag and drop and pin controls.

Users can also select from a grid of small, medium or large thumbnails, depending on how many icons they want in their Top Sites page. By default, the Top Sites page acts as the default page when opening a new window or tab.

Sites added to Top Sites are tagged with a dog eared star whenever their content changes, making the visualization work like a simple RSS reader to highlight favorite sites with new content.



Looks like Windows on Windows

For Windows users, Apple has released Safari 4 with the native windowing look rather than the original Mac OS X appearance it debuted with. While the original appearance tied Safari's look in with iTunes and retained Apple's branding, it clashed with what users might expect to see on the Windows desktop and appeared somewhat fake looking.

Safari 4 not only adopts the Orange and Blue "Fisher Price" theme of Windows XP or the Glass look of Vista, but also provides Windows users with the less accurate but more familiar Windows-style rendering for text.

Looks like Snow Leopard on the Mac?

While Safari 4 on Windows looks more like a Microsoft product, on the Mac it looks like the future of Mac OS X. The latest developer builds of Snow Leopard feature only minor user interface enhancements, currently carrying forward the Time Machine "universe" branding that originally debuted with Leopard in 2007. While the thrust of the Snow Leopard release is on internal improvements rather than marketing features aimed at consumers, Apple has historically branded each new release of Mac OS X with significant user interface changes.

This indicates that Safari 4 offers a peak into Snow Leopard's as yet unreleased makeover on the horizon. The overall look of Apple's operating system has long adopted the features of key Apple products being promoted at the time of their release.

Mac OS X 10.0 and 10.1 reflected the blue and bright white translucent striped plastics of the original iMac.

Mac OS X 10.2 Jaguar added a brushed metal look first used by QuickTime and then iTunes to introduce iChat and iCal, branding the new apps as virtual hardware devices along the lines of the iPod.

Mac OS X 10.3 Panther spread the metal look across the Finder and iSync and darkened the bright white Aqua interface using shades of grey to make the desktop appear more serious and professional.

Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger introduced a new "unified" appearance that toned down the metallic look of brush metal and made it the default window appearance. This move was foreshadowed by prerelease versions of Safari and iTunes.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard further refined the desktop with more dramatic shadowing on windows, a more subtle menu bar, and a new Dock presented in 3D perspective with reflections, as well as a new full screen 'back in time' mode for Time Machine and universe themed packaging alluding to the new backup and restore features.

Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard hasn't yet revealed its hand in the user interface department yet, but Safari 4 indicates a number of shifts that may make their way from the browser to the operating system, making them available to third party applications

Aspects of Safari 4 likely to find their way into Snow Leopard

Tabs on Top: by putting tabs into the title bar, they reclaim dead space in the user interface and make organizing the tabs within the window, and busting them out as their own window, more intuitive. Among the apps that could benefit from Tabs on Top are iChat, the iWork apps, and the Finder.

In more general terms, the Tabs on Top interface also shows Apple's increasing willingness to not only adopt good ideas from elsewhere, but also to change long standing rules that govern the user interface. Recently released iWork 09 apps similarly break convention to deliver useful new features, such as the ability to take a Pages document full screen and push the background desktop, menu bar, and other permanent user interface elements out of view. This deliberate effort to step out of the windowing structure is something a number of apps could benefit from without destroying the window metaphor when returning to a multiple window environment.

This step into interface isolation was pioneered by Leopard's Time Machine and Tiger's Front Row, and will likely find other uses in Snow Leopard outside of individual apps that take over the interface in the manner of Pages 09.

Top Sites: the new user configurable, visual presentation of recently viewed web sites would also make for a great opening screen for many document-centric apps. The new iWork apps present available themes as a grid of starting points. Why not supply a visual Top Documents view as an option in the standard open file dialog as well, allowing users to pin up an array of recently used documents, integrating Spotlight search results as well with Quick Look rendered results?

Lose the Aqua: one element found in Safari 4 that is unlikely to make it to Snow Leopard is the watery blue scroll bar. Already, iTunes has dropped the Aqua bar for a flatter and more subtle grey control. Snow Leopard may even go a step further to make scroll bars disappear until the user mouses over them or scrolls up and down using a mouse wheel or multitouch trackpad gesture. This is already the case on the iPhone and Apple TV, and is becoming common in other third party user interfaces as well.

What Snow Leopard will actually look like when it ships later this year is still kept tightly under wraps.
post #2 of 145
I really like the top sites view, but please replace the blue neon (when hovering over a site) with something more subdued. Neon is just too aggressive.
post #3 of 145
Great article! It was really enjoyable to read. I'm totally loving Safari 4 so far. Ahh!
post #4 of 145
I'm not sure about 'Tabs On Top' and I don't agree with comment that there is any 'wasted space' in the Title Bar.

Like whitespace on a page, the space in the Title Bar allows the user to identify the window quickly in an otherwise busy environment. When you start to introduce tabs, the OS will start to look cluttered very quickly.

Or perhaps I'm just scared of new stuff...
OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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OK, can I have my matte Apple display, now?
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post #5 of 145
"Top Favorites" screams for a full screen interface. Why couldn't Apple borrow Opera's full screen interface too? Add some gestures, keyboard shortcuts, and tie it to Spaces and it would be amazing.
post #6 of 145
I really enjoyed working with Safari 4 yesterday, but for some reason, my main email host started failing to connect via IMAP after the install. I don't know if part of web kit was updated, etc. but as I couldn't get mail I uninstalled 4 and went back to 3 and all is well with mail.

Could be a coincidence, but it makes me nervous about moving forward with this app. Having said that, the new feature, interface and speed were impressive.
post #7 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Among the new changes is support for 'resolution independent' scaling of the entire web page, just like the iPhone. Rather than only bumping up the size of text and destroying the layout of the page, as web browsers have historically offered to do, Safari 4 allows users to scale the entire page up and down (below, scaled down), either using size buttons in the toolbar or multi-touch trackpad gestures on late modeled MacBook models.

that feature has been in other browsers such as Opera for some time, so tying the "zoom whole pages" feature to resolution independence is rather far-fetched.
post #8 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I'm not sure about 'Tabs On Top' and I don't agree with comment that there is any 'wasted space' in the Title Bar.

Like whitespace on a page, the space in the Title Bar allows the user to identify the window quickly in an otherwise busy environment. When you start to introduce tabs, the OS will start to look cluttered very quickly.

Or perhaps I'm just scared of new stuff...

I don't really like it either - I like having File, Edit, all that stuff up at the top. Now I don't mind having the do-it-all settings button but I'd like both and I think the lack of File, Edit, etc is going to keep many in the general population away from this...

Oh, and have links open in new tabs - what the heck is the point in tabbed browsing if when I click on something I get another freakin' window?

EDIT: I also find that I have more "mouse miles" with the tab bar up top as my mouse is normally inside the structure of the page, having to go all the way to the top to switch takes more time... All of this is moot tho I'm sure - no way they are going to ditch the tabs at top thing.
post #9 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by mn_hawk View Post

I really enjoyed working with Safari 4 yesterday, but for some reason, my main email host started failing to connect via IMAP after the install. I don't know if part of web kit was updated, etc. but as I couldn't get mail I uninstalled 4 and went back to 3 and all is well with mail.

Could be a coincidence, but it makes me nervous about moving forward with this app. Having said that, the new feature, interface and speed were impressive.

I had similar problems, with Apple Mail failing to download new messages and multiple copies of the same message ending up in my inbox before Mail crashed. The crash dialog mentioned Growl as a possible cause so I deleted Growl and Mail still can't finish downloading new mail (though it doesn't crash, I need to force quit to get beyond the endless download loop). Entourage 2004 (11.4.0) works fine.

I'll revert to Safari 3 to see if that fixes it, though I hate to since I love the new features and faster browsing of Safari 4.
post #10 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evangelize With Respect View Post

I had similar problems, with Apple Mail failing to download new messages and multiple copies of the same message ending up in my inbox before Mail crashed. The crash dialog mentioned Growl as a possible cause so I deleted Growl and Mail still can't finish downloading new mail (though it doesn't crash, I need to force quit to get beyond the endless download loop). Entourage 2004 (11.4.0) works fine.

I'll revert to Safari 3 to see if that fixes it, though I hate to since I love the new features and faster browsing of Safari 4.

Yup, reverting to Safari 3 seems to have fixed my Apple Mail connection problems (though it may have screwed up my account settings since I had to reenter account passwords again). Look forward to Apple working the bugs out!
post #11 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Object-X View Post

"Top Favorites" screams for a full screen interface. Why couldn't Apple borrow Opera's full screen interface too? Add some gestures, keyboard shortcuts, and tie it to Spaces and it would be amazing.

Agreed, kills me that Apple still refuses to build in full screen capabilities. I had a plugin called Glims for Safari 3 that did both full screen & max window, sadly no worky with 4 beta.

I really think the full screen being left out is just a stubbornness to not carry over anything that Microsoft pioneered. They will borrow from others but Apple really doesn't like borrowing from MS, especially since they like to bash MS for borrowing so much from them.
post #12 of 145
I think Tabs on Top could be problematic as it's currently implemented if it spreads to all other Apple apps. It just seems too cluttered and makes it more difficult to grab and move the entire window. The handle on the Tabs to move them around also looks like a resize control. Tabs on Top serves it's purpose saving space, but I'm not sure the trade-off in compacting everything together is worth it. Hopefully, like Leopard's dock and the transparent menu bar, it's a work-in-progress that'll see further refinement before release.
post #13 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I'm not sure about 'Tabs On Top' and I don't agree with comment that there is any 'wasted space' in the Title Bar.

Like whitespace on a page, the space in the Title Bar allows the user to identify the window quickly in an otherwise busy environment. When you start to introduce tabs, the OS will start to look cluttered very quickly.

Or perhaps I'm just scared of new stuff...

I'm still a bit dubious about it also, (especially this particular implementation), but I must admit I'm getting used to it already and it's only day two.

From a design point of view you could look at it as the removal of duplication. The title bar only ever had two uses, one is the name of the window/program/page/whatever, and the other was a place to grab the window when you want to move it. Tabs on the other hand served the same function as the first one, they were just labels on (multiple) windows. By combining the two they've removed the duplication of having a browser window name and sub window names. The user knows they are in Safari already, the only other information the title bar carried was the name of the page, which was actually carried by the tabs anyway. Now that they've done it, in retrospect it's quite an obvious move.

The article doesn't mention it but I think an obvious candidates for this kind of treatment in Leopard are multiple document situations in other apps. This would be a killer thing to do to the text editor for example, or even Preview.app. Being able to push documents into each other so they become tabbed or rip them apart into separate pieces would be a very efficient way to deal with clutter.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #14 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Messiah View Post

I'm not sure about 'Tabs On Top' and I don't agree with comment that there is any 'wasted space' in the Title Bar.

Like whitespace on a page, the space in the Title Bar allows the user to identify the window quickly in an otherwise busy environment. When you start to introduce tabs, the OS will start to look cluttered very quickly.

Or perhaps I'm just scared of new stuff...

Indeed, the window title bar is not wasted space at all.
post #15 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by PACraddock View Post

that feature has been in other browsers such as Opera for some time, so tying the "zoom whole pages" feature to resolution independence is rather far-fetched.

This comment doesn't make sense. It's a comma-splice of two separate ideas.

1) The feature has indeed been in Opera for a while, so?

2) To call it 'resolution independent' (in quotes) is merely correct, and is not necessarily "tying" it to the concept of resolution independence as an OS level feature AFAICS.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #16 of 145
What happened to the 'go back to the original page' button? (I forget what it was called). I use that all the time!!!

The browser itself is definitely faster but I not sure about 'Tabs on Top' yet. There's something unintuitive about it and greater mousing distance is required. The developer tools however are totally awesome.
post #17 of 145
http://www.flickr.com/photos/35835860@N08/3308614371/

Here's a mockup design of what I think could be the new look of the Finder in Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Has tabbed interface like Safari 4 beta and other interface elements from iTunes 8. I think this look could be used across all Apple applications too.
post #18 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

I'm still a bit dubious about it also, (especially this particular implementation), but I must admit I'm getting used to it already and it's only day two.

From a design point of view you could look at it as the removal of duplication. The title bar only ever had two uses, one is the name of the window/program/page/whatever, and the other was a place to grab the window when you want to move it. Tabs on the other hand served the same function as the first one, they were just labels on (multiple) windows. By combining the two they've removed the duplication of having a browser window name and sub window names. The user knows they are in Safari already, the only other information the title bar carried was the name of the page, which was actually carried by the tabs anyway. Now that they've done it, in retrospect it's quite an obvious move.

The article doesn't mention it but I think an obvious candidates for this kind of treatment in Leopard are multiple document situations in other apps. This would be a killer thing to do to the text editor for example, or even Preview.app. Being able to push documents into each other so they become tabbed or rip them apart into separate pieces would be a very efficient way to deal with clutter.

The reason why tabs on top was never done before today isn't because nobody had thought of it before and that Apple was the first to think about it. No, it's because it's a shitty idea that doesn't work well in practice.

Couple that on top with the notion that tabs is a solution in search for a problem (on the Mac with Spaces and Exposé) and you've got a mess on your hands.

Tabs are already unnecessary to begin with. They don't scale well beyond a certain number of tabs. They offer hardly any visuals to someone that would want to switch to a web page quickly. And when they replace the titlebar, they cause a handful of new problems.
post #19 of 145
It makes sense that all the other browser apps (Finder, iTunes, iPhoto) borrow from Safari (or from one another) to achieve a more unified interface. There are differences but these are all apps designed to browse and help decipher large amounts of information as efficiently as possible so uniformity and consistency, both visual and functional, is definitely a good thing. I would love to have tabs on top of my finder window, as well as a Bookmarks bar, for instance. I have a ton of folders in my Finder tool bar. This works great but there is no hierarchical drop downs. As I have said before, the only downside to visual streamlining and unification is that apps become indistinguishable from one another. When you have ten windows open you need an instant visual que as to what app is which.
post #20 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

The reason why tabs on top was never done before today isn't because nobody had thought of it before and that Apple was the first to think about it. No, it's because it's a shitty idea that doesn't work well in practice.

Couple that on top with the notion that tabs is a solution in search for a problem (on the Mac with Spaces and Exposé) and you've got a mess on your hands.

Tabs are already unnecessary to begin with. They don't scale well beyond a certain number of tabs. They offer hardly any visuals to someone that would want to switch to a web page quickly. And when they replace the titlebar, they cause a handful of new problems.

Totally disagree. I would agree that tabs ought to be user invoked, however.
post #21 of 145
All this tabs on top complaining about mousing distance is lame.
ctrl+tab & ctrl+shift+tab switches between tabs. use it and stop whining.

--

So I've noticed the removal of the pill button in the top right corner. Usually you could cmd+opt click on it and edit the toolbar. Maybe this function will be removed in 10.6? I sure wouldn't like to see it gone, I like making my icons smaller and removing the text from below them in third party applications. It just saves space and cleans things up a little.

I applaud Apple on UI simplification and unity, but changing OSX to be MORE like iPhone's OSX is a big mistake. If the scroll bars disappear or fade away once a page opens that requires them, new users of the OS could be put off by how vastly different and inherently confusing life without scroll bars could be.

I think changing all the aqua to the iTunes style is a good step forward.
post #22 of 145
Few bugs with it.

Have had some Java glitches like on:
www.dslreports.com/stest
When selecting a speed test, the java applets 'start' button wouldn't show up.

I've noticed in Top Sites, that banner ad's will force the 'star' corner to signal the page has changed. Thats a bit annoying. Pretty much every commercial website has ad's on them or changing graphics.

It's crashed on me twice after quitting a pop up window that was streaming audio through WMV. That could be Flip thou.

I don't understand the complaint about the tabs on top... click anywhere and drag the window around with ease??? I don't get what the problem is...

Also, with the zoom feature, it would be nice if there was a way to quickly go back to default view. If there is, i haven't found it yet.

Looks promising.
post #23 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingdomArtist View Post

http://www.flickr.com/photos/35835860@N08/3308614371/

Here's a mockup design of what I think could be the new look of the Finder in Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Has tabbed interface like Safari 4 beta and other interface elements from iTunes 8. I think this look could be used across all Apple applications too.

That's awesome...let's hope so..

I'm loving tabs on top...tabbed finder would be double plus good and more intuitive with the + in the top right corner - as it stands I bet new users get totally stuck when they are asked by a recently installed application to drag it to the applications folder and find that when they click finder they just get the same window...tabbed finder with tear off would help solve that intuition gap...

Agree that it's time to bury aqua for good - subdued and discrete wins over Vista hideous technicolor vomit theme drawing unnecessary attention to itself and generally being hideously distracting...but I like the idea of the scroll region being invisible until I ever need them (which I never do basically)...
post #24 of 145
I'm also not understanding all the complaining about 'tabs on top'. It takes just a little getting used to, but I don't see it as dysfunctional in any way. In fact, I'm liking it the new way, and it wouldn't bother me to see Apple implement this feature in other places.

I have encountered one web site that doesn't display correctly in Safari 4.
post #25 of 145
While I look forward to Apple's Cocoa Finder in Snow Leopard, I think the Finder has gotten bloated and overly complex.
I personally would like to see the Finder become a single window app.
90% of the time I have just two Finder windows open in column view.
This should be the default layout of the single window Finder.

Tabs are just creating more complexity in an environment that needs to be streamlined.
post #26 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigmc6000 View Post

I don't really like it either - I like having File, Edit, all that stuff up at the top. Now I don't mind having the do-it-all settings button but I'd like both and I think the lack of File, Edit, etc is going to keep many in the general population away from this...

I think you're confusing the Title bar (formerly at the top of a Safari window, and usually at the top of app or document windows) with the Menu bar (which is where "File" and "Edit" are located). This discussion is about tabs replacing the Title bar, not the Menu bar.
post #27 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella View Post

Tabs are just creating more complexity in an environment that needs to be streamlined.

You don't have to use them. :-)
post #28 of 145
Absolutely no way that the scroll bar will be hidden until you mouse over it. That breaks it's functionality. You'd move your mouse over it then have to move it to find the draggable bar itself, rather than moving straight to where the bar is...
post #29 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


This indicates that Safari 4 offers a peak into Snow Leopard's...

Without making a mountain out of a molehill... that really should be 'peek'. (Skulks back into language police guardhouse.)
Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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Believe nothing, no matter where you heard it, not even if I have said it, if it does not agree with your own reason and your own common sense.
Buddha
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post #30 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by shawnathan View Post

So I've noticed the removal of the pill button in the top right corner. Usually you could cmd+opt click on it and edit the toolbar. Maybe this function will be removed in 10.6? I sure wouldn't like to see it gone, I like making my icons smaller and removing the text from below them in third party applications.

Select "View>Customize Toolbar..." or Control-click anywhere in the toolbar.
post #31 of 145
[QUOTE=surferfromuk;1381154]That's awesome...let's hope so..

BRAVO APPLE!!!!
post #32 of 145
Tabs on top may be useful and save space, but they're damn ugly in my opinion. And as stated earlier, the grab icon is the same as a resize icon, which could end up being confusing.

But it's a beta so that stuff will probably be refined for the final version.
post #33 of 145
Great article! Very thorough and informative.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Snow Leopard may even go a step further to make scroll bars disappear until the user mouses over them or scrolls up and down....

I certainly hope not. Scroll bars serve a very useful function, even when not actively in use: They indicate (a) the size of the page being viewed and (b) one's position in the current page.

I rely upon this information constantly, and the fact that it's unavailable on the iPhone until one actually scrolls is one of my disappointments with the iPhone. (Don't get me wrong; I love my iPhone. I'm just saying....) "Disappearing scrollbars" that only appear when one mouses over them would be a horrible step backwards.

I'm not one who resists change. To the contrary. I love Safari 4, and I'm always eager to adapt. What I hate is new versions of anything that remove previous features (e.g., Apple's removal of the "Put Away" command, which was immensely useful. WTF? Now, 9 years later, it's finally coming back).

---

The one thing in Safari 4 I don't like is the "Create a new tab" button. That corner is ugly. I use keyboard shortcuts, so I'll be glad when someone figures out how to remove that button.
post #34 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57 View Post

What happened to the 'go back to the original page' button? (I forget what it was called). I use that all the time!!!

The browser itself is definitely faster but I not sure about 'Tabs on Top' yet. There's something unintuitive about it and greater mousing distance is required. The developer tools however are totally awesome.

Select "History>Search Results SnapBack..."
post #35 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post

The one thing in Safari 4 I don't like is the "Create a new tab" button. That corner is ugly. I use keyboard shortcuts, so I'll be glad when someone figures out how to remove that button.

Shit no...if you're going to accept the terrible "tab on top" design, you have to accept its 'terribleness' in its entirety.
post #36 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundsgoodtome View Post

I think you're confusing the Title bar (formerly at the top of a Safari window, and usually at the top of app or document windows) with the Menu bar (which is where "File" and "Edit" are located). This discussion is about tabs replacing the Title bar, not the Menu bar.

Well where the heck is the menu bar then??? There is no menu bar in the windows version and it's frustrating. I don't know if there's a menu bar for the Mac version or not (I'd imagine there is since Apple always keeps the menu bar on top of everything).

It's still more mouse miles but I'm fine with that - it's the absence of the Menu bar that's frustrating (again, this might be windows only)

EDIT: And you shouldn't have to select a corner to drag the tab around - you should be able to drag from anywhere, why else would you be clicking in the tab bar anyway?? (other than to close which already has it's own button)
post #37 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingdomArtist View Post



Here's a mockup design of what I think could be the new look of the Finder in Mac OS X Snow Leopard. Has tabbed interface like Safari 4 beta and other interface elements from iTunes 8. I think this look could be used across all Apple applications too.

WOW. Bravo!!

What's interesting about Tabs on Top is that it's basically moving something akin to Microsoft's Taskbar (pre-Win7) up into the window.

What I'm constantly irked by in OS X is the situation of having two windows open in the same application and if I don't stagger them or they don't auto-cascade...there's no immediate visual cue that lets me know they're there at all. I have to use Expose or the Window list in the Menu Bar or ctrl-click on the application's Dock icon.

Tabs on Top, combined with the Sidebar many applications already have, would pretty much eliminate this problem.


The only thing I absolutely don't understand is the removal of the loading bar inside the address bar. The iPhone version of Safari, which Safari 4 takes many cues from, has it. Why not Safari 4? It's not like Apple's going to get rid of loading bars in Snow Leopard, so I'd urge people to send request to Apple for the return of this very helpful visual queue or at least ask them to consider providing some new and better alternative.
False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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False comparisons do not a valid argument make.
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post #38 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

The reason why tabs on top was never done before today isn't because nobody had thought of it before and that Apple was the first to think about it. No, it's because it's a shitty idea that doesn't work well in practice.

Well, that's your opinion I guess, but you might want to think of an actual argument instead of just using the (meaningless in this context) word, "shitty."

Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Couple that on top with the notion that tabs is a solution in search for a problem (on the Mac with Spaces and Exposé) and you've got a mess on your hands.

Tabs are already unnecessary to begin with. They don't scale well beyond a certain number of tabs. They offer hardly any visuals to someone that would want to switch to a web page quickly.

I think rather that it's pretty obvious that having multiple windows (one for each document) and using expose to manage them, and having multiple tabs (one for each document) and using a tabbed dialogue to manage them, are really just two different choices. Two different ways of solving the same problem.

You are (sort of) right about the scaling, in that tabs only work up to a certain point before you have to re-size the window, but I think you are seriously overstating the case. Expose can handle a lot more windows in theory than Safari can handle tabs, but I don't see the practical limitations of either being so different from each other. I have a 23" ACD which is big by most users standards, but even so more than about a 20 windows is unmanageable in Expose. On the other hand, a full screen browser on the same screen real estate can easily handle 20 tabs.

I would bet also that Apple has done usability studies and come up with a ballpark figure on how many windows people generally have open at once, or how many tabs. I would also bet that the number is quite low. The only people I have seen seriously upset about the tabs on top thing are (so far) all users that habitually have dozens of tabs and dozens of windows open, or people who seem to want to stick to the "window is a single document" metaphor and use Expose to manage them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

And when they replace the titlebar, they cause a handful of new problems.

I keep hearing this, but I don't see any major "new problems" caused by tabs on top. I find some things about it ugly, like the "new tab" button the lack of a progress indicator, the "mushing together" of all the previously discrete buttons, and some of the graphics, but the basic implementation seems workable to me. it takes a bit of getting used to, and I have to move my mouse up a further 20 pixels or so to change tabs, but the more I use it, the more I like it.

There are quite a few other aspects of the OS-X GUI that I have never liked or seen as useful/logical and although I get used to them, I still wish they were not there. Tabs on Top takes some getting used to, but I can see the elegance and simplicity of the feature already and I don't think it will fall into the category of "things that they never should have done" like the traffic lights or window minimisation.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
Reply
post #39 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by eAi View Post

Absolutely no way that the scroll bar will be hidden until you mouse over it. That breaks it's functionality. You'd move your mouse over it then have to move it to find the draggable bar itself, rather than moving straight to where the bar is...

Not only that but you want to be able to see with a quick glance approximately how long the page is. The scroll bar gives you an indication by its length. To have to hover over it to see it is silly. It would be like changing the color of the scroll bar because you can, you know... silly.
post #40 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim kap sol View Post

Shit no...if you're going to accept the terrible "tab on top" design, you have to accept its 'terribleness' in its entirety.

The tab-on-top design isn't "terrible," and customization is a basic privelege from which we all benefit. The Toolbar, for example, is customizable, and that's why most apps have something called "Preferences." I'm very picky about UIs, and I like the tabs on top. I simply want to remove the button, because I don't need it.

If you don't like tabs on top, that's fine. You can revert to the old style:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE

But to say that we shouldn't be able to customize Safari's "look and feel" because of your opinion about a feature is ridiculous and, frankly, immature.
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