Apple shareholder meeting dominated by politics - Page 2

I'm an idiot because I think that 35% (US top tax bracket) is higher than 29% (Canadian top tax bracket)?

Here is the data again, so you can read it this time.

Canada: http://www.taxtips.ca/taxrates/canada.htm
US: http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

US Federal tax rates are higher than Canadian tax rates, particularly for rich people.

God I wish more people in the USA had your reasoning. My family consists of extreme conservative Republicans and very liberal Democrats (I fall in the middle as I vote based on the candidate and not party lines - the two party system has/is destroying this country based on ego's, fear and greed), and yet I hear and witness the most animosity from my father and other Republican conservatives, especially in regards to health care and "socialism". Ironic as my father is a diabetic in a wheel chair with his legs being amputated from diabetic complications as well as heart disease and diabetic neuropathy - and yet even after all the arguments with HMO's and insurance providers about what should be covered (and 99.9% of the time is covered but they fight it hoping people will be weak/dumb enough to give in) he still is a die hard anti-socialized health care Republican. Sad.

I love how they argue with a Canadian, an American and a resident of the U.K.. Facts versus fear

Are you insane? this is a mathematical formula, not something subjective you can argue about. And I am also Canadian. I have lived in Canada, and also in the US - my taxes were much higher in Canada, but they lowered them after I left because too many people were leaving. When I lived there my tax rate was 60%, now it would be much less.

Edit - oops, I thought you were arguing with me, now I am not sure.

You're just full of insight aren't ya?

Sorry, I was agreeing with you. I was replying to comments so quickly I lost track of who was stating what (I edited my post just after I posted it and reread it). I am in agreement with you .

Please please please pick up a book (besides Ann Coulter's talking points rhetoric "Godless", she and O'Reilly are mere pundits and nothing more) and educate yourself. It is ignorant sheeple such as yourself that embarrass the USA.

I think it's awesome that Jobs will be back. I bet he's enjoying his new yacht, and it seems just more than a wee bit coincidental that he'll be back in June.

Histrionic outbursts at high profile shareholder meetings are nothing new, but certainly entertaining!

I'm sorry but I know that the official story about 9/11 is a lie and that the criminal elements of US government conspired to murder about 3000 Americans that day.


Your understanding of basic physics must be pretty bad, otherwise you would know that steel framed skyscrapers do not collapse to dust at near free fall speed from any kind of fire.

Any two year old paying with blocks should be able to quickly determine that World Trade Center building 7, a 47 story skyscraper reduced to rubble in 6.5 seconds, must have been a controlled demoltion. The case is irrefutably provable with nothing more than high school physics too.

NASA thermal images of ground zero and FEMA metallurgical analysis prove some kind military incendiary like thermate was used to demolish all three of the World Trade Center buildings. Again, basic physics irrefutably establishes controlled demolition as fact, here using the US government own data.

Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth (AE911Truth.org) has well over 500 professionals who agree with me, including almost 100 licensed structural engineers.

I could go on here and talk about:

-> the lack of plane debris in Shanksville and at the Pentagon, (which otherwise appears to have been hit by a cruise missile),

-> the absurdity of NORAD not defending US airspace for two hours (when it is on the record that they knew where the "hijacked" planes were),

-> how at least 15 of the 19 "hijackers" were issued US entry visas from the same consulate in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia (which is well known to be CIA front),

-> or how nobody in the biological weapons community believes the FBI story about the Anthrax attack on Congress (which just happened to coincide with the passage of the blatantly unconstitutional Patriot Act)

... but you should already know this information. Not only is it freely available on the Internet, but now at least two people are sticking it in your face.



So, I find you little attempt at a joke about 9/11 "conspiracy theories" to be very offensive.



I see the word "idiot" is already being used here... You are a TV watching MORON.

more and more I find our current economic situation as it was in Ayn Rand's "Atlas Shrugged"

In a downturned economy the government and looters all sought to regulate and create new laws and take from the successful who are so unjustly rich so that the playing field remain level at all costs.

Apple Computer = Rearden Steel

In other news, 9/11 conspiracy nuts crack me up... best not to feed the trolls.

Attn Admins,

I think that bofors3 post should be removed.

While I do not agree (or want to agree) with bofor3's statement(s), the only point I can state is: Pearl Harbor. I don't put anything past our own government or any one else's, however as I lost loved ones in 9/11 I would hate to believe our own government would have been involved in 9/11 just to get the U.S. involved in another Middle East war. Scary stuff .

I lived and worked in a socialist country for close to 10 years. Socialism sucks BIG time. You can not get ahead because of taxes and controls. If you do try, you will pay and pay and pay so that others who do not try can still get by on your dime/euro/pound.

Things will not change in places like Europe because politicians get elected by the poor majority. Pandering is not just a river in denial... or something something...

I don't believe (at least I'm not) that we are discussing "socialism" in general. I believe the conservation started and was directed around socialized health care (as per the discussion at Apple).

I found this BBC television series exploring the subject very interesting.

"9/11 Conspiracy Files: The Third Tower is directed by Mike Rudin, and produced for the BBC, part of a series investigating and debunking widely held conspiracy theories, while also exploring the inconsistencies and holes in the official accounts." (emphasis added)


Now back to our regular thread already in progress....


.

Trying to get your post count up tonight eh? I'd make a wack-o liberal comment but that would be too easy at this point. First off, sorry to hear about your dad but who's to say he would even be alive under another country's healthcare system at this point?

The two-party system has worked pretty good for years, it wasn't until recently when the far-left appeared that the real problems started. Sorry, I see a lot more vile, in your face, childish actions coming from people who "represent the left" than I do from people on the "far right".

Keeping in line with the subject of this story, companies make products, which should make money. I don't want a company I invest in worrying about political correctness or special projects. You want to do that, do it on your own time, on your own dime.

Oh for the record, I can't stand Coulter, and although I don't always agree with O'Reilly, he is as neutral as you can get on national TV. Sometimes he doesn't get it right but at least with him you hear two sides of the story, and that's more than I can say for anyone on any of the other networks.

I started reading your post but then I realized I don't have any aluminum foil or duct tape close by...

Sigh...


If steel weakening from fire isn't a big deal, why do they put insulation on steel in the first place?

Pearl Harbor wasn't a conspiracy - it was a failing of our own hubris. Many top military officials still considered air plains toys, and in the Navy in particular the battleship was still considered king.

In a way, Pearl Harbor hastened the end of the war by simultaneously proving the superiority of air power and removing the battleships from internal politics/discussions. When resources were dedicated to building new ships, they went towards much more effective aircraft carriers instead of more battleships. Who knows how long it would have taken to modernize our navy had Pearl not happened. Don't ever underestimate the power and momentum of culture. Sometimes the only way to break from tradition is through extreme pain...

Yes it was painful, but it was a lesson we learned quickly, and because of our natural resources and manufacturing might (at least at that time ) we recovered from fairly quickly as well.

You live in a very ideal world, unfortunately it is just that: an ideal world. Life doesn't operate on "ideas", and the right seems more apt at pointing blame than getting their hands dirty (take 8 years of a republican run administration, 6 of those 8 with a republican congress).

Lastly, name one "liberal" that is a counterpoint to the many Republican pundits such as Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, or any other Fox pundit (and please stop with the liberal media non-sense, most of the print and cable news is owned by News Corp/Fox News - Fox, Wall Street Journal, 60% of CNN, NY Post, MySpace, etc - owned by Rupert Murdoch - who also happens to be married to Wendi Cheng, who is a member of the Chinese communist party and funds a great portion of Murdoch's income to her party). Could we also please stop using liberal and conservative? Half of the time no one knows what they mean and those terms are just demonized false representations. Modern day conservatives that claim they are "conservative" as they believe in small government are batting for the wrong team as Bush and company have made the government bigger and have taken away more rights in the name of "terror". The Patriot Act took away due process/habeas corpus and we are not any safer. As for childish antics from the left, have you been watching the news lately? Obama has made a mission statement out of reaching to both sides, and the far right have slapped his hand back to him (Judge Dredd, Limbaugh stating he hopes Obama fails, 99.9% of Fox News commentary, I would state more but I don't want to crash Apple Insider servers).

As Benjamin Franklin stated, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

It is a very complex world we live in, shades of grey interspersed with unruly human emotions, demanding case sensitive and objective reasoning. There is no easy solution, but the global world needs to work together as a collective whole if humanity wishes to survive the times.

Professional Web Apps?

Well I'm assuming she's referring to the client side and not the server-side--WOF.

However, no one was there to ask about CAD/CAM/FEA or anything heavy lifting that Apple currently has no partner porting their flagship applications over? Pro/E, Ansys, Autodesk?

What a bunch of crap. I couldn't stomach such wealthy morons when I worked there, but to be a shareholder and see they are even worse now that the company is highly successful truly pisses me off.

Wow, if Jobs heard you say that he’d hit you upside your head! Reardon Steel is a myth, the Mac is not!

“Atlas Shrugged” itself was a myth, thus the name. Ayn Rand had some good observations, but they are not realistic, just like true communism and true libertarianism. Once you get more than a couple of hundred people involved, the purity of those philosophies doesn’t hold up to reality.

“Atlas Shrugged” was such a goofy story that supposedly had such an impact on the U.S. I mean aside from creepy love story of railroad officials, and the unreality of capitalist pirate ships destroying international shipping commerce, and that only capitalists seem to be able to believe in hard work and all somehow know how to fly all kinds of experimental airplanes flawlessly, it is a good story ... Not! Get real! If a couple dozen industrial capitalists took off to live in hiding in a Colorado valley, the world would never even notice. One thousand people would take their places.

Ayn Rand just wrote propaganda like all ideologues. She wrote a story in which one guy by himself could build a hyper efficient engine, without anyone else knowing and hide it behind a door, that itself could read you mind and intentions and if it didn’t like your intentions would self destructed the engine into powder with seemingly no external source of energy!?!?!? And that four people could mine enough copper to build a small town and that the small towns folk could arm their valley with a special “vision ray” that made the whole city invisible?!?!?!? WTF?!?!?! And then in the end the same “captains of industry” become some sort of bizarre “A Team” and break into government facilities commando style to free a friend?!?!?! And you think that resembles today’s economic situation?!?!?!?

It was the freakin’ captains of industry that looted Enron shareholders. It was the freakin’ masters of the universe that circumvented regulations and destroyed Lehman Brothers, 44 banks so far and counting, and trillions of dollars of the nation’s wealth in under 5 months AND YOU THINK THAT GOVERNMENT IS THE PROBLEM?!!? My family has lost more money to dishonest capitalists (as seen in their pension statements) than to any dozens of ineffective government bureaucrats and those are just the facts of dollars and sense ... And at least you can vote the government out of office. I can’t see that I can do anything to the CEO of CitiGroup or Exxon.

If this were really a free market, why are so many CEO’s keeping their jobs right now? Why is it that if government was so overly draconian, we can elect a new president and party and begin to affect change (even if some of it isn’t the best) in a few months while the supposedly nimble free market stuck and unable to do anything because all the banks are afraid of toxic assets??

Wow, take a reality pill, put the Ayn Rand and Objectivist propanda down, unplug the Reagan and Newt books on tape and actually listen to Ayn Rand’s own protege Alan Greenspan when he admitted in front of Congress that he was WRONG to think the free market could regulate itself.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122476545437862295.html

Ayn Rand’s philosophy started this. Atlas didn’t Shrug, he freakin’ stumbled and fell on his back end and is begging the tax payers for help. Pathetic!

I actually liked some things about Reagan, though he gets more credit for some things than he deserves. The nation needed the mini-revolution and just as Obama said, he was more transformational than Clinton was, but the current economy is simply the logical result of Reaganomics run by a Bush. Good money for a while, but not sustainable or responsible.

There seems to be a fair amount of evidence we didn't?

Just thought I'd throw that out for decision.

Skip

"NASA has been flying the equivalent of a 1970's station wagon into space for 20+ years"

Actually the correct NASA equivalent is more like a 50's Chrysler Desoto, driven off after it was wrapped around a telephone pole, and then passed off as a new innovation in auto design.

NASA only got to the current shuttle design after having turned down the safer USAF design with the shuttle mounted on top. And only got to that point after Project Orion was canceled for short-sighted political reasons. Orion would have given us a true space program at half the cost, and we would have had manned missions to Mars in 1965.

Innovation is only as good as the politics of the era in which it appears.

Apple like all other tech companies today that foster better information access are in danger of political limitations as we move closer to socialism - and yes I do know what socialism is. Ho Chi MIn 2,000,000 people murdered, Pol Pot 3,300,000 people murdered, Hitler 20,946,000 people murdered, Stalin 61,911,000 people murdered, and Mao 76,702,000 people murdered. Socialism always leads to only one end sooner or later.

Don't worry, be happy.

I just would like the AAPL to reflect this fact. \

Because there has never been a country that was purely socialist or communist; not by definition, anyway. Killings of millions of people are due to government corruption, not because of political structure.

Just like the killings of innocent people in Iraq that have been going on for the past several years - all due to government corruption.

By the way, people risk their lives to come to other countries too. The difference is other countries don't treat them like cr*p after they arrive like they do in the USA. Well, some don't anyway.

The world isn't black and white. There are no purely democratic, socialist, or communist countries. It isn't the good and true USA vs. the big bad rest of the world.

Agreed.

AppleInsider thread on Apple shareholder meeting dominated by politics

Can anyone tell me if Americans really know how the vast majority of Europeans regard US right-wing politics, and the persistence of devout Christianity in the US?

So you're suggesting that Sweden is going to elect a mass-murdering despot as leader soon? Should I start stock-piling cheap furniture now?

Is there a cure for Carpal Tunnel Syndrome?

One example of government efficiency should serve as enough because you can't stand there and tell me there is not waste, fraud and abuse by the government no matter which party is in control and you can't tell me that any division of the government's arm be it NASA or the CIA, DEA, EEOC, EPA, FAA, FBI, FCC, FDA, FDIC, FEC, FTC, ICC, INS, IRS, NIH, NLRB, SEC, USIA, USPS or any other alphabetic agency does not also have the tendency to display waste, fraud and abuse?

Heck we just had this government open a Visitors Center so our esteemed politician, Harry Reid, democrat from Nevada, doesn't have to smell we the people, and this projetct was two years delayed and several hundred million dollars over budget. But hey, that's okay, politicians know where to get more money!

I'm not saying government and it's associated agencies is the root of all evil. Just most of it!

The best way to control government is two fold. First, if term limits are good enough for the president, they should be good enough for Congress and the Senate and there should a rule that you can't hop from Congress to Senate or Vise-Versa to extend the stay of your worthless hide. The longer one stays, it is far too easy for corruption, so we need to get these idiots out of Washington - period! The second way, budget constraint! Notice how the government works out a budget and then demands the money?! Imagine if you are a parent and the kid dictates what their allowance is and when they need an increase in pay! No, again, We the People, should have the authority to tell our representatives that this is the amount you are going to obtain for your budget this year and not a penny more until next year (outside of extreme emergencies, war, natural disasters, etc.). That way, the money will be better spent, government will look for the best bang for their buck and better auditing of the money trail. Yes, put government on a peoples defined budget and not a government defined budget that the people are then raked over the coals to pay for, that will reign in those big wasteful spenders in Washington!

Should we Americans care how the vast majority of Europeans regard US right-wing politics?

So tell me, if you have another little Kosovo scrap or if Russian tanks roll into your country as they did Georgia, you'll have no need to ask anything from America, especially if at such time, America had a "right-wing" (usually hawkish) administration in power? Right! Spend your billions of dollars on your own damned defense! I say America should pull out of all European bases and let the Europeans do some heavy lifting for a change. Imagine all those budgets for their Social Programs if they were halved because of the need to pay for the increases in cost to their own countries defense!

"...devout Christianity in the US" Obviously you didn't research enough of our left wing politics or didn't watch the Academy Awards to know the fallacy of that part of your statement.

Unfortunately this country is very divided by politics. Many Americans, especially in the midwest "Bible Belt", strongly believe in Religion. Many of those strongly believe in creationism/Intelligent Design. Having lived in NYC, London, Barcelona, Palo Alto, San Francisco, Denver and Boston, from my personal experiences the coastal cities tend to have a more diverse international culture and as such tend to be more moderate/left leaning. America is a very diverse country, unfortunately it's a divided diversity as homogeneous suburbia tends to isolate people based on many variables. Los Angeles has been an example used by many modern urban theorists in describing post modern America, while the 19th Century New York City has been the ideal to which compare modern day America. The LA riots and its aftermath have been a much discussed issue with American socio-politics.

The main issue is that America is a very young nation comparatively, with many different cultures being influenced by religion, politics, drastic changes in technology and communication. The Republican party used to be a very respected force, unfortunately sometime in the mid-20th century, the religious right (and many corporations) became highly influential with the republican party, resulting in what it has become today. As a moderate (I vote based on the candidate, not the party) I find it troubling that the present Republican party seems determined in making social policy law. The founding fathers established America to flee religious persecution and to establish a nation in which all men are created equal, yet the Republican party seems more concerned with taking the rights away from Americans and intent on placing the church in the white house. I wish more Americans would travel and experience the world, they may not take everything they are told for face value and would learn that the "evils" that certain politicians and parties preach about aren't exactly evil. The notion that their own government can't be guilty of the same "evils" it claims to fight is ignorant and dangerous. I'm not stating that the government is an evil, corrupt entity, I am stating that it would be foolish to blithely accept everything given to us without questioning its authenticity. Further, the two party system seems to have created more strife than solutions for a better government, as people seem more apt in fighting with blanket terms such as "liberal" or "conservative" instead of calmly discussing the issue and coming to some sort of understanding. In the end, we all lose.

Some people need to hide in their unibomber shack in the sticks with their guns.

Why are you so angry? Certainly you can not ignore the 8 years of what the Republicans have done (6 of those with a Republican congress) and find fault with the current administration that has not even been in office long enough to make a difference. Compared to the corruption of two past terms, I believe we're doing the best we can given the extreme circumstances.

Georgia attacked first, at the request of the US, and with our weapons.

Do me a favor and don't read my comments- problem solved.
I'm not the only person that has said the meeting was dull without SJ. Schiller was the only one that read somewhat exciting IMHO.
You really have a major problem- name calling from you is consistent on here. And if all you care to do is pick at all my posts- go ahead but you are wasting space here and your own energy.
Get over it -analyze yourself.

You are right that Obama has said many times that he wants to reach out to both sides, however his actions don't always live up to his words.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/44/...blicans_o.html

"But let no one be mistaken that this bill is the result of bipartisan negotiations. While Republicans were courteously consulted at the member and staff level, we were never at the negotiating table,"

Sounds like he invited them just to appear to be bipartisan.
If he treated me this way I probably would have just slapped his hand back to.

What about Dredd, the Republican who Obama tapped to be on his administration and then declined last minute? Or the numerous other Republican on his staff?

Unfortunately Obama had little to do with the last bailout as it was written mostly by the Democratic congress, headed by Pelosi and Reid (and I can not stand Pelosi). Compared to the last few Presidents, Obama has made a point in extending an olive branch to the other side. Unfortunately the other side slapped it back.

I feel he do the right thing. They needed to work fast. Time was too important to lose. To bring a full bipartisan negotiation would have led to locked horns, stagnant and stressful debates, this not helping the public at large (Though we still don't know if these stimulus bills will help). The Obama party was respectful by including their desires and wishes, the way a parme may ask her child what he thinks, but in the end they make the final decision. Fair? No! Necessary? IMO, yes.