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Japanese "hate" for iPhone all a big mistake - Page 3

post #81 of 100
You had me until you started quoting Roughly Drafted.

Is there a worse Apple advocacy site?
post #82 of 100
I thought Wired was at least decent. Guess I was wrong. Mr. Chen ought to be censured and come after by Apple's famous lawyers.

Irresponsible journalism seems to be rampant these days, from the financial market to tech. At least one good reason to keep real newspapers alive.
post #83 of 100
I did wonder about the "article" that Chen wrote. I've been to Japan many times and have used their phones...not very user friendly. Every young commuter seems to be using an iPod so foreign tech is not an issue. I also saw quite a few with iPhones...they seem to have some sort of "cool" factor. I'm not a big Apple fan. I don't use a Mac but do have an iPod and iPhone. I don't seem to have a problem with this, just how I use things and my preferences.
This seems to be the way many Japanese are...my opinion.

Thanks
post #84 of 100
I'm not so sure if it's the lack of "cool" factor so much as it the lack of "wow" factor. Out of the box, there's not much an iPhone does, that the Japanese phones couldn't do 4 years ago; internet, GPS, email, videos, are all old news here.

And don't forget about wacky extras like bar-code/kanji readers, TV, video chat, e-wallets/train passes, deco-mail, IR/Bluetooth data transfer between phones.

When you consider that, it's no surprise that people aren't pissing themselves over it. But it's still a kick ass piece of hardware. I do think that the iPhone will really take off once Japanese developers start taking full advantage of what the App Store has to offer. Fanboys can rest easy. Nobody is laughing the iPhone out of Japan.

By the way, why is everyone poo pooing the UIs on the Japanese phones? The interface on my Sharp 812SH is nearly idiot proof. And bilingual (thank goodness).
post #85 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

Why should Apple care whether or not the iPhone sells in Japan and S. Korea? They're small countries and if Apple can sell the iPhone to 95% of the world then they can just forget about those two countries and still make huge profits. It's plain to see that the people in Japan and S. Korea march to a different drum. They do things their own way and are certainly out of step with the rest of the world. I said out of step, not behind, but different. Apple certainly could add some features to attract users in Japan and S. Korea, but then they'd have to build special models just for them. I suppose Apple could license those eWallet chips. Having an eWallet sounds very convenient, but it must be disastrous if you lose your phone, unless there's some password to protect it from working or the people are honest and will return your cellphone to you right away. Adding an attachment for mascots should be simple enough, but it really seems useless in my estimation. I'd never consider having some mascot on my cellphone.

So if Japan and S. Korea clearly don't have a need for iPhones, well that's their choice. Whether the rest of the world will eventually have Suica and eWallets is anyone guess, but until the rest of the world starts using that proprietary stuff, Apple should continue building devices that suit the majority of people in the world. There are always going to be some cellphone users that the iPhone doesn't fit, but if they're in the minority, so what.

I gather the same thing will happen in China too since everyone types in an Asian script. If Apple can get those iPhones to a small percentage of westerners living in China then maybe they'll be satisfied with that since there are probably a lot of westerners in China (don't know the stats). But as far as the native Chinese population goes I figure it would be pretty much the same as in Japan since the Asian input is so slow and not practical. IMO "touch only" input is not the way to go for global sales. You want both keyboard and touch just like Palm's new Pre. Apple is lucky that India speaks English for if it were not for that huge population they'd certainly be missing a huge opportunity. iPhone is just not suitable for most traditional Asian countries where English speakers are in the minority.

Places like India, Singapore, HK, Taiwan, etc where English is or is like a second language shouldn't be a problem. Apple might have good sales in China simply because there's over a billion people and they are sure to find many westerners wanting the iPhone, but excluding english speaking Chinese and western foreigners, proportionally I don't see sales being any different than Japan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony124 View Post

By the way, why is everyone poo pooing the UIs on the Japanese phones? The interface on my Sharp 812SH is nearly idiot proof. And bilingual (thank goodness).

Because they either don't live here and are talking out of their azz or can't afford to buy the new phones in Japan which are really nice and better than any phones in North America.

Try finding a mobile phone in North America with 1SEGTV, water proof, 8MP camera (with video), mp3, and a touch UI all wrapped up in one. There are other phones here with a touch UI, but they also have a regular keypad which is needed for economical and practical text input.
post #86 of 100
Thanks for the mention and balanced treatment of the topic. I was glad to read some of the other various opinions as well.

Regards,
Rick Cogley
Tokyo
http://rick.cogley.info
post #87 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by tony124 View Post

By the way, why is everyone poo pooing the UIs on the Japanese phones? The interface on my Sharp 812SH is nearly idiot proof. And bilingual (thank goodness).

Over about 9 years, I've used probably 9 models of Japanese phones from different makers, and one or two have been somewhat intuitive. The rest pretty awful from a UI usability perspective. I have not tried the one you mention though, so maybe things have improved since the last one I had which was a Sony, and, had one of the not-so-good interfaces in my opinion. Too many glitchy problems and too much complexity.

Sincerely,
Rick Cogley
Tokyo
http://rick.cogley.info
post #88 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Even in the US, the iPhone is not the most feature rich phone out there. There are a lot of other phones which have more features than the iPhone. Where iPhone trumps the others, is in the usability. Even the most complex features of the iPhone can be used by anyone in just a few minutes. Everything is so intuitive.

There are literally dozens of e-Money and e-ticket options in Japan, and the phones there support only ONE option. Practically everyone in Japan has multiple e-Money cards, because there is no way you can manage with one card on all the varied networks. Till there is some standard, and till these networks manage to talk to each other, no phone in Japan will be worthwhile as an e-Money option. If you have 5 e-Money cards, and one card is supported on the phone, what's the bloody point? Might as well carry 6 cards instead of 5!

As for TV, yes - live TV is interesting and nice - but the iPhone kind of makes up for that by its access to YouTube. And I think we are not too far from the day when we have a YouTube like solution for LiveTV - at that point even this shortcoming will be moot.

The other shortcomings of the iPhone - like lack of Infra-red contact transfer, etc -- all these just amount to different ways of doing things. E-Mail is so much better and more reliable than IR transfer. This issue is a lot like the lack of MMS in the US.

I think at some point, Apple will leverage its gestures edge to allow Japanese direct gesture based text entry. The current form of text entry in Japanese phones is a pretty crude method - using the number keys to enter words phonetically, and then select the kanji from the list displayed. Agreed people get used to the system, and some people can message really fast with this system (even without looking at the phone!!) - but a direct gesture based input method where the Kanji can be directly entered on the screen would be a whole lot better.

People in Japan complain that because of the way computers and mobile phones use phonetic input and translate to the kanji, youngsters in Japan have no opportunity to write the kanjis. So they can write the basic kanji that they learn in school, but cant write other kanji properly.

All Asian languages, with complex scripts, and characters with defined stroke orders, will actually benefit from the iPhone. It is just a matter of time before Apple (or some third party) delivers this "killer" functionality, and then people will be wondering how crude the current phones are!

The iPhone has been a fair success in Japan - and the reason it has not been an even bigger success is because of reasons outside of the phone itself. Softbank's image and network need an upgrade. I think most people would agree that whatever success iPhone has had in Japan has been inspite of Softbank - not because of Softbank. For a parallel in the US, imagine if Apple chose to launch with T-Mobile or even worse, with Sprint.


Interesting points. You're right about there being multiple e-cash standards (crazy), but a single phone can hold several. Still, it's a pain in the ass having a separate Java app for each. Moreover, the e-travel passes (prepaid anyway) are usable on any train or bus network that uses the FeliCa RFID tech.

More pertinent to your point, perhaps, is the fact that companies like NTT are looking at the problem of having separate apps for similar RFID-related tasks and are about to combine up to 100 store loyalty cards into a single RFID app. There are full details here from a demo last week in Tokyo if you're interested :-)
post #89 of 100
Wow, Wired really have screwed themselves over with this cut and paste hatchet job...
post #90 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by RickCogley View Post

I have not tried the one you mention though, so maybe things have improved since the last one I had which was a Sony, and, had one of the not-so-good interfaces in my opinion. Too many glitchy problems and too much complexity.

Have not tried the ONE? LOL I think you've been looking in the toy store rather than the mobile shops. Or you must be living in a part of Tokyo I don't know about where all the good phones are quarantined away from the stores you purchase from. There are a LOT of sweet Japanese phones. 8MP camera with video, 1SEGTV, water proof, touch UI (not Palm Pre or iPhone touch UI of course but good enough), and some are a lot smaller than the iPhone too. I'm not debating about which phones are better. I simply saying that the Japanese phones that are for sale right now are pretty cool. Best of all they have a keypad that you can actually type kanji fast with. And about that Palm Pre. If you haven't watched the videos, it's damn sweet. That's coming from an Apple fanboy since '92.
post #91 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

By the way, why is everyone poo pooing the UIs on the Japanese phones? The interface on my Sharp 812SH is nearly idiot proof. And bilingual (thank goodness).

Because they either don't live here and are talking out of their azz or can't afford to buy the new phones in Japan which are really nice and better than any phones in North America.

Oh in fact we in the USA do use Japanese software interfaces all the time. Our televisions, DVD players, cameras, etc. The old joke about Americans not being able to set the time on their VCR was because of poor unintuitive software design.

Quote:
Try finding a mobile phone in North America with 1SEGTV, water proof, 8MP camera (with video), mp3, and a touch UI all wrapped up in one. There are other phones here with a touch UI, but they also have a regular keypad which is needed for economical and practical text input.

In North America we don't really want all of that stuff on our phones. The major carriers here have tried mobile TV services, few people were excited about that. Their have been waterproof phones, they only came off as a gimmicks. There are many places in the US where it rarely rains, so those areas would care nothing for a waterproof phone. Phones with higher megapixel cameras don't particularly sell better in the US than a phone with lower pixel resolution. Those things don't really impress us.
post #92 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

There are a LOT of sweet Japanese phones. 8MP camera with video, 1SEGTV, water proof, touch UI ...

Why WOULD anyone want a waterproof phone? Just curious.
post #93 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by success View Post

But as far as the native Chinese population goes I figure it would be pretty much the same as in Japan since the Asian input is so slow and not practical. IMO "touch only" input is not the way to go for global sales.

Sorry, you have no idea bout Asian language input.

Chinese use PinYin, which uses roman alphabet for input. There is zero difference between touch keyboard and physical keyboard. The 1 billion people have been happily using the traditional phone pad (0 to 9) for SMS for over a decade, and I can tell you the input speed can be faster than English.
post #94 of 100
Daniel Eran Dilger is a disease. It's not that he has a disease - he *is* a disease. And the disease is contagious. Don't read this rubbish or you'll end up a sick as he is. You've been warned. He's wacko.
post #95 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by peharri View Post

You had me until you started quoting Roughly Drafted.

Is there a worse Apple advocacy site?

No. We all know that. Prince McLean *is* Roughly Drafted if you didn't know. But the Roughly Drafted name has been so besmirched it has no value anymore. Thus the nom de plume.

No one needs an advocacy site anyway. Better to tell the people the truth. That's something Daniel Eran Dilger will never understand. He's never come in contact with it.

Hey maybe it'll just turn out he had a malignant tumor on the brain. Something like John Travolta in that movie Phenomenon. Oops. Freudian slip.
post #96 of 100
Wired should fire Chen. This sort of journalistic irresponsibility is unacceptable.
post #97 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fairly View Post

Daniel Eran Dilger is a disease. It's not that he has a disease - he *is* a disease. And the disease is contagious. Don't read this rubbish or you'll end up a sick as he is. You've been warned. He's wacko.

Can I get in line to slap Dilger too?

(Like the scene in Airplane)

C.
post #98 of 100
Great article AI!

Unfortunately I don't think Chen's attitude toward journalism is rare. That's why I love when this sort of thing is revealed. Not that iPhone quotes are really that big a deal. But yellow journalism should be exposed whenever possible.

Even if Chen's sensationalism and mis-quoting were subconscious acts, the thing to do now would be to offer a full apology with no excuses. Doing so immediately probably could have saved his reputation. His attempts to side-step the issue seem only to be digging him deeper. Thankfully, the perpetual memory of the internet will likely have this fiasco hound him forever. Accountability at its best.

If only we had this sort of follow-up in sectors of journalism!
post #99 of 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by adammarkus View Post

2. Transmission quality: AU has better overall quality in some underground/deep interior locations than Softbank. That said, the overall quality/speed of the transmission is great under normal circumstances, including most subways.


i wonder why apple did not spend some resources to tune up iPhone in japan before announcement.
post #100 of 100
[TommyWiseau]Oh, HI, 2009!"[/TommyWiseau]

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already f*ed.

 

Reply
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