Conservative Republicans- PHONIES!!!

The terms "conservative" and "Republican" do NOT belong together!!

Yes, the Republican party is being highly "partisan"... just like the Democrats... but neither party is conservative. Both parties like to spend spend spend... just on different things. Both parties have no concern for the national debt and what that is doing for the next generation of Americans. Both parties believe in spending more $ than they will ever receive in taxes.

Conservatives would like to see spending cut (real spending cuts) and would even support raising taxes... but also want that extra revenue to go towards getting the country out of hock. They realise that cutting programs (spending) is going to be painful, but that pain is necessary if we are going too actually FIX the problems we are facing. All this spending is NOT fixing anything (by both parties). It is only covering up the problems for a little while longer, and there will be even more pain involved when this band-aid falls off.

There is no way to "fix" the economy without cutting spending... which means dropping many programs which are deemed as "entitlements" and "pork". Then they will need to create a budget (and live within it) that actually spends LESS than they bring in via taxes, so that we can actually pay back our debts!

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Why don't we just not pay back the debt- much simpler and much less pain. If you lent money to an idiot you wouldn't necessarily expect to get or even need it back. So the dollar won't stay the worlds reserve currency. That's a lot easier on the US than paying it back and we could make sure some folks get some back pending on there relationship with us. Let's face it defeulting on the payments is a certaintity, anyway.

A default is a default whether by printing press or by notification.

Because that is just wrong.

Some of us still have morals. The lack of morals is exactly the thing that pisses us off about the federal government... no matter which party is controlling.

Exactly. The banks lend out 9 times what they have when they stick to the rules and charge interest on all that money they never even had. This gaurantees inflation, so let's do the decent thing and stop paying those who are robbing us. Sure, No one will lend to usfor a while so we can just stick to our budget instead of borrowing currently $280 billion to pay that lovely interest. Once the defaults start, who's going to lend more anyway?

What is this thread even talking about? Someone give me an example of the phoniness? Just one?

Ooh, this is a hard one. You betcha.

I don't know about "Republicans", but the GOP certainly is a rudderless ship heading toward Niagara Falls. What tree stumps thought it would be a good idea to elect a black man head of their organization, just because he's black? They think they're acting in a "strategic" manner? The GOP is hopeless. LMAO!

Can you give an example of the rutterlessnessitude?

As I was reading you second sentence I thought you were talking about the democrats.

An example of the rudderlessness? Are you kidding me?

In Obama's case, he won as a result of the "anti-Bush" vote, including those from within the Republican ranks.

I think the "stimulus" plus Obama's budget put the wind at the republicans back. It's easy to explain to people that "this" costs too much and will hurt jobs because it raises taxes.

If it's any of those 3, the GOP will continue it's rapid slide into obscurity and (perceived) irrelevance.

I think associating the throwing of spears with critics of the president is horribly racist.


Yeah man, totally. Now let's go play some XBOX360 and kill dudes... with our spears.


Dude, can I copy your answers for Biology tomorrow?


Dude you are totally right! That whole prescription drug benefit, No Child Left Behind and even that Iraq War thingie passed with some pretty huge margins but really that was just minor bullshit stuff that nobody cares about. I mean the Iraq War thing only had 77 votes including 29 Democrats. Damn those Republicans and their lack of hand extension. That prescription drug benefit, it was totally single party politics because that crap was unanimously passed in the Senate. NCLB only passed 87-10 so clearly Bush was just shoving crap through the Congress.


Shit dude, next they're going to run a woman for VP, Maybe they'll even run one for president.


Totally man, totally.

Uh...no. They are opposing what Obama and the congressional dems are doing because they think they are royally fucking over the country. And yes, they think doing so will present a political advantage as well.


Would be? They did. For eight years. And they did it over life and death issues....issues like winning or losing a war.


I don't know what "extend a hand" means to you, but in some sense Bush started off this way. He worked with Teddy Kennedy for example on the NCLBA. And while the GOP didn't exactly go out of their way to include dems in future years, they also didn't lock them out to the extent that the dems have done recently.


Of course it was planned. They're trying to broaden the reach of the party. Wouldn't you plan the same thing? I'm not endorsing Michael Steele or Bobby Jindal specifically. Steele is kind of a tool, and Jindal has the charisma of a baked potato. But as for putting minorities in more visible positions...duh. Of course they planned it.

Yeah it would be too hard to swallow for the GOP that anyone could fuck over the country better than they did.

Right..., the tool and the baked potato are all part of the right wing plan.

Go Palin.

The country has been "fucked over" many times in the past by administrations of both parties. You're basically stating to me that you have minimal knowledge of history and zero capability of putting things into perspective.

Yes, the Bush administration did some foolish things that not only upset liberals but also alienated the conservative base of the party. Guess what, Obama is going down the same road, just the other way around. If any conservative tells you that he wants Obama to "fail" it's because he doesn't approve of the big-government precedent that Obama is trying to establish. Liberals wanted Bush to fail in Iraq, so, it's not as if there's any moral high ground that one side can hold against the other.

Off the top of my head.. yes, a little oversimplistic, but whatever.. pull it apart, chew it over....

The premise which is becoming more irrelevant by the day is the "divide between left and right". This division may be the perception amongst the unwashed masses, highlighted and exploited by the mainstream media and politicians campaigning for votes... but the real war that is really tearing this country (and many others) apart is now being waged by a corporate/banking/mercantile etc. etc. elite, far above the law, who, alongside their whores in government, see we-the-regular-people increasingly as "an enemy", or a part of the enemy, upon whom some degree of maximum security society must be imposed.

Their broad program includes "financial terrorism" and this is nothing new. It happened in a severe form in Indonesia in the 1970s under Suharto, or Chile under Pinochet.. and also in Argentina, Bolivia, Uruguay, Brazil, Honduras Guatemala, Peru, Poland, Russia and many other nations to a greater or lesser extent. The old M.O.s of coups and dictatorial regimes, were mass disappearances, tanks in the streets, secret police, bans on public gatherings etc. Such blatant methods probably would not work that well today in modern westernized industrial nations... (it's not worth soiling one's own living room when we can use our military and intelligence agencies to trash that of others', on the taxpayers)... but what does seem to be currently working rather "well" domestically, is the "softly softly" approach. Like the proverbial frog in the bowl, the water is very gradually being heated up in small increments so as to not be overtly noticeable.

Actually, the capacity of the masses to realize their lot, especially when herded by the constant bombardment of (largely faked or imaginary) terrorism threats, is reduced still further, allowing a faster track to tyranny. In just eight short years, what has changed, without any resistance from the people? What is new? (1) the repeal of the centuries old Habeas Corpus legal framework (2) and (3) The "Patriot" Acts I and II (4) The Department of Homeland Security (the framework of which was modeled after the German S.S.) (5) Torture as an officially approved punishment for people not even found guilty of any crimes (6) The Military Commissions Act (7) Signing Statements (8) The wholesale criminalization of dissent (9) The politicization of domestic law enforcement (10) the repeal of Posse Comitatus (11) No Fly Lists (12) the KBR detention center program (13) "Terrorism" watch lists (over One Million people so far) (14) Spying on US citizens (15) "First amendment zones" (16) rigged elections (17) a war on reason and science.... the list goes on and on...

The above were all Bush Administration measures... but has the Obama team made any attempt to repeal, or halt any of this CRAP? Not a chance in hell, and I would bet the farm, and some, that after 4 years, all this legislative cesspool-slime will still be in place, and probably strengthened and streamlined. People had hope when Obama was elected. But after just two months, this is evaporating like snow on a Sahara summer afternoon, as it becomes plain that we have gone from an Oil Industry Croney Administration, to a Wall Street "Bankster" Administration. Yes, Obama has made a couple of cosmetic alterations in a halfbaked attempt distance his administration from the previous one, to pander to his alleged base and shore up the perception of a real "difference" between the two parties. The side issues of stem cell research and abortion are obvious candidates: they traditionally distract large numbers of people from the important stuff which is changing their lives for the much worse.

Back in the 1950s, a gas station attendant could afford to put money down on a modest home, and pay a mortgage... the American Dream. Wow! These days, a gas station attendant's pay probably pays half the rent on a grotty apartment, and he's working two other jobs just to pay for necessities. This is the way of the future, as America slides towards an ugly hybrid of 1984, Brave New World and Blade Runner, with most people seemingly eager to embrace it, because, like the frog, they don't know they are being boiled. And... the guy with his hand on the temperature control knob is intelligent, good looking, a great speaker, and... he is black. It is much harder to criticize the new guy because he's also got the all important weapon of political correctness on his side as well.

We are on a hiding to nothing. Welcome "Junta Lite".

While it's true this isn't a new thing any other " Fuck Over " pales in comparison to what Bush has done for the last 8 years ( and I do know my history ).

It's so big and really across the board from wire tapping to bad wars to economic blundering.

Right across the board.

Obviously, you don't. The 19th century was one scandal after another. I could continue, but there's clearly no point.

Ok after doing a search that showed really nothing of the magnitude of the Bush administration I'd like you to at least specify what you're referring to. A link might be nice. Also your statement :
doesn't release you from the obligation to clarify what you're referring to. Unless of course you're afraid to be challenged on the subject.

I'm very interested in what in the 19th century could compare?

Seriously... who is paying 35% of taxes?

Are the rich paying 35% of taxes?

If that's the case, then please explain why when the government said it would tax bonuses... 35%... the CEOs all screamed bloody murder!?

Replying to the original post, it seems to me that the Democrats weren't exactly holding hands and singing "Koom Ba Ya" with the Republicans when W took office. In fact, I distinctly remember them doing everything they possibly could to undermine his presidency for the entire 8 years he was in office.

Not that I agree with everything W did.

Just my 2 cents (.5 cents after taxes).

There maybe a few out there, with a conscience, who might. Otherwise, who would willingly pay that 35% tax when there are accountants and lawyers out there who specialize in creative tax avoidance (evasion?) schemes for the wealthy?

While this might be true there wasn't the angry backlash we've seen this time from the republicans. Case in point listen to McCain's speech on election night. Those weren't exactly happy campers! No. The republicans are practically apopletic about the situation. Which was predictable.

Are you kidding me? Come on! Democrats stood by and said nothing when that plane crash landed in China. Then the Democrats pretty much rolled over and showed their belly right after 9/11. They were so worried about Republicans running ads against them being soft on terrorism that they stood in line to vote for his war. It was pathetic watching those yellow bastards bend over to have a big one inserted. A lot of good that did them. We all know what the mid-term campaign ads looked like in '02.

It wasn't until Howard Dean started running for president in 2003 that liberal activists started screaming about Bush's disaster in Iraq.

No, I am not kidding you. You conveniently left out all the nonsense about Bush "stealing the election". The Democrats NEVER let that go, even after their beloved Supreme Court settled the matter.

And remember all the attempts to smear Bush? Like that fabricated "memo" about his military service?

But I digress. I'm defending a party that I am no longer affiliated with.

Just trying to put things in perspective, here.

There are still people who wonder if it was really " Nonsense ". Sorry but you really don't sound unbiased.

But really if you want to say something damning about Bush all you have to say is " Where's the WMD ? "

I remember "Jews for Buchanan" well. And Database Techologies. And Katherine Harris. And the butterfly ballots. And the threats against black voters. And the fact that the results in Florida are still unknown, because the Supreme Court stopped the count there.

Have a good read. I realize its not a Murdoch publication, but it is quite entertaining.


I think you have forgotten something about that issue: You are correct in that the memo *was* fabricated, but it was a fabricated copy of a real document. Karl Rove pulled off a masterstroke there, Jennings was punked, and the issue was discarded.

The Air Force Times states: Killian's former secretary, Marian Carr Knox, 86, of Houston, has said she believed the memos were fake but their content accurately reflected Killian's opinions.
"I know that I didn't type them," she said in an interview with CBS. "However, the information in those is correct."
While the authenticity of the memos is disputed, what is not is the fact that, From most accounts, Bush appears to have received preferential treatment to get into the Air National Guard and avoid the draft after he graduated from Yale University in 1968. He was initially regarded as a good pilot, but his performance faded over his final two years in the Guard and he was suspended from flight status. He did not fly for the remaining 18 months he served in the Guard, though he was obligated to do so.
And for significant chunks of time, Bush did not report for duty at all. His superiors took no action, and he was honorably discharged in 1973, six months before he should have been.


Perspective, I grant you that. How about including "distorted" or "fabricated" next time around?

Good points and good facts!

Is jazzguru Naples or dmz or someone?

I love the reasoning. No one is paying the 35% tax rate and thus raising it back to 39% will solve problems because... no one is paying it. By this reasoning the Bush tax cuts really didn't lose any revenue because... no one was paying it.

Great reasoning.


Is Hassan i Sabbah really Naples, dmz, or someone?

Um... you missed my point.

Do you deny that the majority of Republicans complain that the rich are paying 35% tax? So now you're agreeing that the rich actually AREN'T paying 35% tax, or anywhere near it. So you're admitting that all those Republicans that complain that the rich are paying 35% tax are either stupid, or they are liars. Glad we solved that problem then.

It's so easy to make assumptions about people based on a few posts, isn't it?

I am not a Republican. I am not a Democrat. I am a Constitutionalist.

I do not get all my news from Fox News, but they are one of the MANY, MANY sources I go to for my news.

I do not support the illegal invasion of Iraq.

Let's see...what else...I do not believe that either major party, Republicans or Democrats, have any advantage or "moral high ground" over the other. They are both corrupt right up to the very top.

The sooner people realize this, the better of this country will be.

I don't know how anyone, in good conscience, can blindly defend either party anymore.

86% of taxes are paid by the top 25% of income earners. No, they are not all Republicans.

Early 1900's - Teapot Dome. I'm sure if you try you can find a link. Also, there are plenty more. in the 19th century proper, Aaron Burr, for example, was a VP and a murderer. Tons of scandal. There's ALWAYS a scandal going on in politics.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politic..._United_States

I'll do my best to not take that as an insult. But I do sleep very well at night knowing I did everything I could do to help Democrats regain control of the federal government. And I will continue to do so.

I'll even go one step further. I am a card carrying member of every grassroots organization that is committed to not just "more" Democrats, but "better" Democrats. I plan on continued canvasing, donating even more time and money, toward the effort to unseat these so-called "Conservadems" and Blue Dog Democrats for real progressives.

I am a liberal. I am a progressive. I am a Democrat. And I damned fucking proud of it!!!