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Apple debuts new Mac minis with five times better graphics - Page 2

post #41 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Well i'm in the US so there's been no price hike and I will likely buy two minis over the next year.

Pluses

Dual Monitor capability
11n networking
1066Ghz FSB
Faster graphics

It's a solid deal. I've enjoyed my 1.66Ghz mini and the RAM upgrades weren't all that hard IMO. I'll be ready to build a small network with Snow Leopard macs. It should be fun.

It's a solid deal, but not enough for me to use it as a stack for OpenCL. See my prior post about the Nvidia G110M.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product..._g110m_us.html
post #42 of 207
I would have bought this, if they released this six months ago instead of the Macbooks. I remember feeling like a second class citizen for owning a Mac desktop back in the 90s. These past six months I've felt like a second class citizen from Apple's perspective for wanting to buy a Mac desktop.

There's no excuse for waiting this long. The real headline should be "Apple waits 19 months to make 6-month-old Macbook."
post #43 of 207
The mini continues to have no identity. It used to be a low-end Mac to snag value shoppers into the Mac experience. Now it's a mid-range underpowered desktop in which you pay more for laptop parts.

They really need to get something under the $500 price point again like they did with the original mini.
post #44 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSuperiority View Post

What's the best way to hook this up to my HDTV??

1) Get an AppleTV instead, unless you really want it to be a computer for your TV and not a media extender. Then you can just use a single HDMI cable.

2) Get a mDP or mDVI to HDMI or DVI connector (whatever your TV has) at Monoprice.com. As well as an optical audio cable, though a 3.5mm to RCA audio cable will work, too.
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post #45 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Really? Apple didn't do something hinky in the OS to limit the $599 to 128MB? Cool...

I don't see why they would. Certainly nothing in the specs points to that.

But I don't have a new Mini to prove it.
post #46 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booga View Post

The mini continues to have no identity. It used to be a low-end Mac to snag value shoppers into the Mac experience. Now it's a mid-range underpowered desktop in which you pay more for laptop parts.

They really need to get something under the $500 price point again like they did with the original mini.

Do you own one? It's only midrange if you're looking at cheap PC. I like the mini, it's an ideal solution to someone like me that doesn't game and likes having a smaller desktop that doesn't sit on the floor constantly being kicked.

I have GigE ethernet and now I have 11n networking in addition to my choice of monitor. Until the iMac gets quad core I don't see it as a suitable value for my own particular needs. Until then I'll have a mini network with a network laser printer and NAS.

The Dual monitor support is going to yield some interesting setups.
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post #47 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Put in the G110M and I've got OpenCL ready GPU.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product..._g110m_us.html

Add a secondary PCI-Express 2.0 GPU slot and I'd buy 2 and buy 2 GPUs to use OpenCL and OpenGL3.x.

They blew it.

Yes, because not catering specifically for you is an epic fail.
post #48 of 207
So it is true! Forgive me Apple, for doubting you!!
post #49 of 207
Apparently the death of Firewire was greatly exaggerated.
post #50 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Well i'm in the US so there's been no price hike and I will likely buy two minis over the next year.

Pluses

Dual Monitor capability
11n networking
1066Ghz FSB
Faster graphics

It's a solid deal. I've enjoyed my 1.66Ghz mini and the RAM upgrades weren't all that hard IMO. I'll be ready to build a small network with Snow Leopard macs. It should be fun.

Am I correct in understanding that I can remove the burner and install another HD in it's place? 2 internal drives sounds nice. Just pick up a external usb burner for $100 bucks.
post #51 of 207
No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.

That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!
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post #52 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

Am I correct in understanding that I can remove the burner and install another HD in it's place? 2 internal drives sounds nice. Just pick up a external usb burner for $100 bucks.

Only if they've made the optical drive SATA which would be welcomed in a big way. The little clips that hold the parallel cable going to the optical drive are a pain in the ass to deal with. I'll cry tears of joy if the new optical drive is a simple SATA connection...seriously.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.

That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!

Do we know what type of cables are included? I think a MDVI to DVI should suffice for most people with relatively new (read non sucky) monitors.
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post #53 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

You might be right, but I would definitely wait for benchmarks and see how much work is offloaded to the GPU. Also, things might change with Snow Leopard.

I'm not sure that a 13% increase in CPU speed, on the same memory bandwidth, will really change anything. I think the key here is how much work is done by the GPU.

I agree with you and do not know how much video decoding is currently off loaded to the gpu. I have a 2006 core 2 duo "ole whitey" imac with 2.16 ghz and a 256 mb ati video card. I have been using it to test plex and other htpc options. When playing a blueray rip of the incredible hulk I noticed some stuttering when the camera was panning up the hill of the shanty town. I do not know if that was from the way it was encoded or some other problem. My thinking is that a little extra processing power may be helpful and that 2.0ghz might be a little weak for htpc. My final test in the upcoming weeks is to order an external blue ray drive and using windows via bootcamp to fiddle around with blueray playback.
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post #54 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Fred 1 View Post

Am I correct in understanding that I can remove the burner and install another HD in it's place? 2 internal drives sounds nice. Just pick up a external usb burner for $100 bucks.

You can, but it would cheaper and garnish you more capacity to just use an external FW800 HDD. It would even be cheaper to buy one of those HDD that look like and fit under the Mac Mini. An internal HDD would have to 2.5" and then you'd have to buy an adapter to the plug and then an external housing or a new external optical drive. A FW800 HDD could be 3.5" and hold up to 2GB of additional storage.
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post #55 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.

That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!

They haven't included extraneous adapters in most of their products for years. Better to have the few pay for them than have the many pay for an item they don't need.

If you are buying a Mac Mini at an Apple Store I guarantee that you will be asked about your monitor. The Mini also has a mDVI port, too, so the customers doesn't need to buy a 24" LED-CD. If you need a VGA adapter, go ahead and get a new monitor.
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post #56 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

So much for the macmini pictures being fake! Who's laughing now

Actually, some of the photos were either fakes (where the person had seen one? or was an Apple mock-up) because the fan holes vary depending upon your source.

http://images.apple.com/macmini/imag...ts20090303.jpg
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget....-09macmini.jpg

Strange...
post #57 of 207
OK, I know I'll be labeled a hater, but it's overpriced for the minimal bump. This "bump" really just puts the thing where it should already have been by now more or less, or they need more attractive pricing. Ya see, there's this little thing called a recession going on now that makes anemic electronics less desirable, "it's the economy stupid."

To make it worth the price Apple should have sweetened the deal IMO. Right now, the high-end maxed out is only slightly less than the low-end iMac but with no monitor. If they really wanted to basically sell the same machine tweaked a little, they should have thrown in more.

If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.

The typical home theater enthusiast has at least the A/V receiver, cable box, game console, maybe a DVR. Anyone building a system or adding new things to it wants it as close to "future proof" as possible and as few cables as possiblethat means HDMI. HT equipment without HDMI is simply outdated. The remote is necessary to make it useful as part of an HT system, that should be included standard for all models as well. As a computer alone it just isn't that impressive considering it's present cost structure. The low-end should have 2 gigs RAM standard at the current start price. The high-end should have 4 gigs and/or the larger HD standard at the current start price. Those things would make me want to buy one. As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.
post #58 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Yes, because not catering specifically for you is an epic fail.

Catering to those that have over 400 Mac Minis' in a rendering farm is a colossal failure, but it's my fault for no longer being at Apple to make that point.

I'll also remind people that University Engineering and Graphics departments [Architecture and more] would be more than happy to buy a bunch of these, connect them to nice monitors and do Numerical Analysis, FEM/FEA/CAD/CAM on these little boxes, versus buying Mac Pros for 50 lab spots.
post #59 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Apparently the death of Firewire was greatly exaggerated.

Exactly! Only 2 macs do not have firewire of some sort! The macbook air and the aluminum macbook. Where are all the firewire is a pro feature apologists!? Even for the slimness they could have found a way to make it work on the current aluminum macbooks.
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post #60 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

I agree with you and do not know how much video decoding is currently off loaded to the gpu. I have a 2006 core 2 duo "ole whitey" imac with 2.16 ghz and a 256 mb ati video card. I have been using it to test plex and other htpc options. When playing a blueray rip of the incredible hulk I noticed some stuttering when the camera was panning up the hill of the shanty town. I do not know if that was from the way it was encoded or some other problem. My thinking is that a little extra processing power may be helpful and that 2.0ghz might be a little weak for htpc. My final test in the upcoming weeks is to order an external blue ray drive and using windows via bootcamp to fiddle around with blueray playback.

I'm wondering if i just went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 599 model, upgraded ram (from 3rd party vendor), and perhaps cpu down the road (if i really wanted to. Once i go to 2 GB of ram, how do i allocate the vid card to use 256?
post #61 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Only if they've made the optical drive SATA which would be welcomed in a big way. The little clips that hold the parallel cable going to the optical drive are a pain in the ass to deal with. I'll cry tears of joy if the new optical drive is a simple SATA connection...seriously.



Do we know what type of cables are included? I think a MDVI to DVI should suffice for most people with relatively new (read non sucky) monitors.

How would you support the second drive inside though?

And is looks like I overreacted so I'll apologize. The new macmini comes with mini dvi to dvi, the original appleinsider article has adapters sold separately which is why I flipped. My bad.
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post #62 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

Exactly! Only 2 macs do not have firewire of some sort! The macbook air and the aluminum macbook. Where are all the firewire is a pro feature apologists!? Even for the slimness they could have found a way to make it work on the current aluminum macbooks.

I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.
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post #63 of 207
I am starting to think maybe I should skip this mini and buy a base white macbook for my htpc. I will be using an external firewire drive to store my media. In that application I don't know if I would notice a difference between firewire 800 versus 400. And with the macbook I would get a 13 monitor and a built in ups that can run it for 3+ hours and very portable when needed. However, on the downside, I worry if that 2.0 ghz processor is fast enough for running all my hd media. I think this is a decent but underwhelming upgrade considering how fracking long it took.
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post #64 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by UTisNUM1 View Post


Actually, as of today and in the UK, that's not accurate. The closest-equivalent Studio Hybrid (with not-so-good graphics, but twice the memory and HD space) costs £449 versus Apple's £499.

But, of course, you don't have to buy a Studio Hybrid. You can buy a Studio instead with a not-totally-lame case and better specs than Apple's £649 model for £379 (with 2.8GHz Core 2 Duo, rather than a 2.0GHz one). While paying a little bit more is fine, paying 71% more seems a little extreme.
post #65 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I don't think it's the slimness that is preventing FW800 from the MB. After all the MBPs are the same thickness and they have FW800.

Hmmm... very true, making it even more ridiculous that my macbook does not have it. This happened to me with fw800 on the original macbook pros, I've got to stop being an early adopter, but damnit it's so hard!
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post #66 of 207
OK class, lets review the new Mac mini's specs:


No price change in US
Faster CPUs (2.26GHz replaces 2.0 GHz) Core 2 Duo
Bigger cache (3 MB replaces 2MB)
DDR3 RAM (replaces DDR2)
Faster bus (1066MHz replaces 667MHz)
NVIDIA GeForce 9400M chipset. Up to 256MB of DDR3 SDRAM (shared)
Bigger drive options up to 320GB OEM
DisplayPort option & dual-monitor I/O support
More USB 2.0 ports (5 ports replace 4 ports)
FireWire 800 (replaces FireWire 400) - Calm down, adapters & cables available!
802.11 a/b/g/n support (Previous mini supported only b/g)
More energy efficient (<13 watts)
No black plastics
No Blu-Ray optical
Apple didnt wait for the i7 "Bloomfield" CPUs
DisplayPort adapters not included
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post #67 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

That's shared memory. If you just add memory you can do the same thing. In fact I think OS/X does it automatically.

I'd get the base model but with 4GB and the 250GB drive. This is worth $849 in the Apple store.

The cheapest way to get 4GB / 320 is to start with the "high" model: $899.

I don't see any point in spending $150 on the 2.26GHz CPU. Too little performance difference and probably runs hotter. so more fan noise.

Within a few months, this machine will replace my current desktop Windows PC. The drive is now big enough for me to keep my current Windows installation in a VM. The machine is far smaller and quieter and I expect performance to be comparable on the VM, and better for native Mac apps.

You can buy 4GB (2x2GB 1066 DDR3 SODIMM) @ Crucial for $65:
http://www.crucial.com/store/partspe...KIT25664BC1067

And, after a very quick search, a 320 MB 7200 RPM hard drive for $79
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136280

So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.
post #68 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post


If they're going to offer it with Front Row included (a good thing), they obviously want to further the idea of the mini used as a digital entertainment hub. They should lose Apple TV and let the mini cover both the entry computer and home entertainment markets with the production cost of a single unit. That means little without a built in HDMI port. I think it's performance limitations are a function of it's size. Keeping it small and quiet (which I'm guessing includes heat-related performance limits) make it attractive to put in an entertainment system. But they configure it so you have to buy an HDMI converter which isn't just another thing to buy, there's more to it than that. That won't get audio to your home theater set up so you have to ad another cable, probably with a Lft/Rt splitter to inputs on your A/V receiver. Just more wires in your cabinet.

Front Row has been in maintenence mode for a while. Apple has no intentions of offering the Mac mini as some sort of quasi HTPC. If consumers feel that $100 is expensive for a DVD player how is Apple going to convince them that $600 is a more suitable product choice. Hell that's more than people are spending on their HDTV. The cleanest setup is a media extender aka Apple TV with a bit of local storage and the ability to stream music video and photos.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

As it is, not so much; I'm a little underwhelmed.

That happens a lot when you take a product outside it's intended market. The mini is a computer it's not a home theatre device.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

How would you support the second drive inside though?

And is looks like I overreacted so I'll apologize. The new macmini comes with mini dvi to dvi, the original appleinsider article has adapters sold separately which is why I flipped. My bad.

Not a problem ..you kept your temper in check I figure any secondary drives will need some sort of 3rd party mount. We'll see if someone attempts this.
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post #69 of 207
Will this work to connect my FW400 drives, or do I need some kind of hub/converter?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2
post #70 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerBadderBen View Post

Will this work to connect my FW400 drives, or do I need some kind of hub/converter?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

Yes. That will work. I have some Belkin cables and adapters too.
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post #71 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerBadderBen View Post

Will this work to connect my FW400 drives, or do I need some kind of hub/converter?

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

That's it. All you need
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post #72 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking View Post

No display adapters in the box? Wow that is beyond pathetic. This is their entry level desktop, do you know how many people will buy it get home with their first ma and find they can't use it, they've gotta go back out to the store and buy a $30 dongle? Do they think doing this will get more people to buy the 24"? Those dongles don't cost them more than a few dollars to make, just throw one in for pete's sake.

That said even though I have a current gen macbook I actually want the new one, just because the mac mini g4 I've not relegated to being used with my tv is still my favourite mac. The thing is I literally don't need it!

Dude, you've got to read before you rant. It clearly says that you get a mini-DVI to DVI adapter in the box. Are your panties untwisting now?
post #73 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

That's it. All you need

Great! Thanks. Time to buy now...
post #74 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vulcan1 View Post

So much for the macmini pictures being fake! Who's laughing now

I kinda believed it personally. Having said that, if they had put a "£649" price label on it I'd have been screaming fake! Bah... Bloody recession.
post #75 of 207
I can't believe its taken Apple a year from the last too minor update to come up with this. How many Apple developers does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Apple's marketing is less than optimal. They still refuse to target the HTPC market. Slightly bigger case, allow 3.5" hard drives, more storage for HTPC and lower price point for switchers.

Other than that, its an acceptable although not extraordinary minor update.

Inclusion of FW800 seems confusing, mostly with the conspicuous removal of firewire from the aluminum Macbook. That appears to have been a mistake.

I would have considered an updated Mini a year ago, but now my Macbook is getting old enough that I'd consider buying a new laptop and using my 3yr old Macbook as a HTPC. The new Mini doesn't offer anything special. The new aluminum Macbook with the higher price and lack of FW makes it harder to take the plunge. I like the 13" size but really like FW. In my extensive tests I get twice the speed with FW than USB.

The used market on eBay is interesting. Old Minis don't sell for much less than a new one. But an old Macbook with similar specs can be had for $550-600. That seems worth it to get a laptop for the price of a Mini. Thats probably the route I'll take.
post #76 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by BiggerBadderBen View Post

So for $750 and a bit of labor you can beat the Apple prices substantially. Again, assuming the putty knife trick works here.

I'll be sitting patiently waiting for the first person to post pictures of their upgrade efforts!

I'm guessing that because they haven't mentioned anything about the casing, it will be practically identical internally. So with that in mind, how difficult was it to upgrade the previous model? Would I be able to put a 500GB drive in there?
post #77 of 207
WoW!

I cannot believe everyone is so impressed with the update? It's a complete RIP OFF! No remote is included anymore and the prices here in the UK are waaaaay more expensive than the previous versions - they keep going UP - (£499 or £649).

I was going to replace, but I don't think i'll bother!

:-(
post #78 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Walney View Post

D'oh! Another slam dunk from Apple. Entry level UK price rises by £109

...so it's not "our most affordable Mac"... that would be the last one.

I second!!
post #79 of 207
Can some explain the "one audio line in and one audio line out port, each supporting both optical digital and analog"
Is this the same as a TOSLINK connection?

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post #80 of 207
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

That's shared memory. If you just add memory you can do the same thing. In fact I think OS/X does it automatically.

How does OS X know the maximum of the GPU's chipset?

For example. u buy the baseline 599 model with 128 allocation. when u add another gig of ram, how does it know to expand the GPU to 256-max?
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