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Apple introduces compact wired keyboard with new iMacs - Page 2

post #41 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by galley View Post

why is the keyboard without the number pad not cheaper? There's less to manufacture.

Bingo!
post #42 of 155
If people had proper typing skills, they probably wouldn't miss the numeric keypad so much...
post #43 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That's ridiculous- where do you get your facts from? Most everybody does their taxes these days and most people will/should be keeping budgets.
That's bull sh*t.

I do my own taxes - and for some other folks - and do databases - and custom spreadsheets with formulas that sometimes get too big to fit in a single cell - and a number of years ago when I was also running a cash register - I used to be able to do 240 "words" a minute on the 10 key (according to Mavis Beacon Typing Tutor) - but after using almost exclusively notebooks for the past 4 or 5 years - I have found that when I do get to a machine with a full keyboard including 10 key - that I forget to use it.

So I think the post was not suggesting that "numbers" are not important to people - but that the for most users the loss of the 10 key is really not that big a deal.
post #44 of 155
It's the Greeenest iMac ever- it has less of a keyboard to biodegrade!
post #45 of 155
Count me in. Sure, I like having access to the keypad and the extra keys, but it's nice to be able to bring the mouse closer, especially if you're spending long days and nights working at the flat screen.

I change pointing devices from time to time to help reduce some aspects of repetitive stress injury. Switching keyboards is a convenient additional option. I also prefer the reliability of wired keyboards.


Quote:
Originally Posted by johnqh View Post

I have to say I asked for this one.

The keyboard with num pad is just not ergonomical.

For the best typing position, the keyboard should be centered with the monitor. However, with the extended portion (about 7 inches), that pushes my mouse pad way to the right. Basically, I needed about 15 inches more space to the right of my typing position. On a small desk, that is impossible.

That's why I much prefer the MB and MBP keyboard. Some PC laptops comes with the built-in keypad, that would force the user to be tilted while working.

I even looked for third party USB keyboards without the num pad. Bought a ViewSonic one but it is crap. I have to say this new keyboard is ideal for me. Just wished it is cheaper.
post #46 of 155
...two steps back....
post #47 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

I do my own taxes - and for some other folks - and do databases - and custom spreadsheets with formulas that sometimes get too big to fit in a single cell - and a number of years ago when I was also running a cash register - I used to be able to do 240 "words" a minute on the 10 key (according to Mavis Beacon Typing Tutor) - but after using almost exclusively notebooks for the past 4 or 5 years - I have found that when I do get to a machine with a full keyboard including 10 key - that I forget to use it.

So I think the post was not suggesting that "numbers" are not important to people - but that the for most users the loss of the 10 key is really not that big a deal.

Pecking at numbers at the top of your keyboard is just not more efficient than a numbered keyboard. I swear some people will just drink Koolaid and die if Apple tells them to.
post #48 of 155
What baffles me the most is... they changethe keyboard for they desktop machines, yet they don't "upgrade" it to the level of the new notebook keyboards.

The white-keyed keyboard of my 1st gen Alu iMac is on par with that of my white MacBook, and it's pretty good, but the keys on the new unibody notebooks feel much more solid, and give an overall higher impression of quality.

So basically, the Apple keyboard you get with your $5000 Mac Pro is of lesser quality than that of a $1200 MacBook.

Not to mention the black keys would match the rest of the machine a lot better.
post #49 of 155
Let me add to the chorus calling for more of the same. This is a good start, but it is just a start.

Apple needs both wired and wireless keyboards with a multi-touch trackpad and left/right mouse buttons taking the place of the numeric keypad. It would be a joy to use and, if made a bit smaller than the current keyboard with numeric keypad, it'd be compact enough to take along with a laptop. And since it means we don't need a mouse, our desks and laptop bags would be less cluttered.

Even more important, it'd let us get away from the number one problem of working while reclining. Here's how it works now. We elevate the laptop with screen, so we can recline rather than hunch over. For input, we add a separate keyboard in our lap for typing but--wait, how can we manage that pesky mouse? Whatever we do, it's always a nuisance, slipping off whatever contrived platform we have onto the floor. This new keyboard puts the mouse where it belongs, as a track pad with the keyboard on our lap. No slip, slip, sliding away.

Bonus points to Apple if it adds these features:

1. A bluetooth version that talks to iPhone and iPod touches, with the trackpad working with the touchscreen--a light touch to give us an on-screen cursor and a firmer touch makes a selection. That same feature could work with our computers, giving us a touch screen without a fingerprint-covered display.

2. The trackpad also works as a graphics tablet, again reducing clutter on desks. It wouldn't replace the professional ones from Wacom, but it'd do for the rest of us who'd never buy a tablet.
post #50 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorre View Post

So basically, the Apple keyboard you get with your $5000 Mac Pro is of lesser quality than that of a $1200 MacBook.

Not to mention the black keys would match the rest of the machine a lot better.

I like the idea of the black keys.
But, the Mac Pro does not come with the new, compact keyboard - but continues with the keyboard with keypad.
post #51 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacShack View Post

I want to have space to type properly and not a tiny keyboard like that.

The letters are the same size on all keyboards I believe. Only the arrow keys are smaller.

I don't really see the point though as someone mentioned earlier, why haven't they updated them to be more like the unibody notebooks is any ones guess.

On a desktop I like the number pad.
post #52 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

This looks like a point for Microsoft to mock Apple with, if ever there was one.

And what exactly would their "mocking" consist of?

While I see this as a silly decision on Apple's part (at least making the small one standard on iMac), I can't imagine how MS (or really any PC company) would run with it.
post #53 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke1robb View Post

I think this move to get rid of the num. pad and decrease the width of the keyboard is a good sign that Apple might be prepping a multi-touch glass trackpad for their desktop line. By have it be smaller, one could attach (via usb) a trackpad to either end of the keyboard (lefty or righty).

Don't blow this off, I think its gonna happen in some manner. Multi-touch is still non-existent on their desktop line, a glaring signal to me.

Thoughts?

I think the reason for the lack of numeric keypad is that by far most people do not use it. If you don't use it it is much better to have a small keyboard. The biggest advantage is that your keyboard takes less space on your desk. Apple addressed this when they brought out the wireless keyboard. If you don't use it a keypad is a pain as you have to move your hand much further to reach the mouse. Inefficient and bad for RSI victims, I believe.
If you need the numeric keypad it is available at no extra cost. You can't have wire less but this is a small tradeoff imo.

As far as a universal programable 'touch' keyboard goes - way too expensive for now but I would love to see it.
post #54 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That's ridiculous- where do you get your facts from? Most everybody does their taxes these days and most people will/should be keeping budgets.
That's bull sh*t.

Not sure why you are even showing up this morning since you've been on my ignore list for a day or two now ...

In any case, wrong again. What I said was:

Quote:
Originally Posted by me

The average consumer "doesn't do numbers" and doesn't even track their finances in any appreciable way by using financial software or doing spreadsheets.

In what universe does having to do your taxes once a year qualify as a consumer doing any appreciable amount of number crunching on a regular basis? And yes, most people *should* use budgets, but most don't.

You also totally miss my point as usual. I am in *favour* of the number pad, although I wold like it as a separate accessory.

What I was doing there was describing a series of logical reasons why Apple might want to eliminate it given their market and the use people make of the thing. This involves putting yourself in other people's shoes and *thinking* as opposed to being a biased fool who resorts to a quick profanities aimed at total strangers who's ideas they don't understand.
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post #55 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And what exactly would their "mocking" consist of?

While I see this as a silly decision on Apple's part (at least making the small one standard on iMac), I can't imagine how MS (or really any PC company) would run with it.

That Apple doesn't take the business/financial world seriously. Spreadsheets and anything numeric are just not completed and created as fast or conveniently without a number pad. Many Apple users (creative and publishing) never use it ,and that I understand, but you don't just cut off the non-creative user part of a desktop. What the hell were they thinking?
post #56 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

What I was doing there was describing a series of logical reasons why Apple might want to eliminate it given their market and the use people make of the thing. This involves putting yourself in other people's shoes and *thinking* as opposed to being a biased fool who resorts to a quick profanities aimed at total strangers who's ideas they don't understand.

It figures you would be trying to defend and make something "logical" out of anything illogical coming out from Apple.
post #57 of 155
STOP THE WHINING ALREADY!!!!

Apple has made it possible to choose wich ever keyboard you want! There is now 3 konfigurations. All should be happy. But NOOOOOOO!!!!! Cry babies!!!

Besides... I use my number keypads every single minut during worktime. A little less during wake hometime. All on a MacBook Pro! I have owned numeric keyboards, but after buying and using the MBP and its keyboard, I have never wanted to look back!!! IT IS NO PROBLEM... if you ask me!

It´s all a matter of changing habits! AND then you have a keyboard that gives you more space, and gives room for upcoming external usb-devices, and other cool upgrades.

...YOU STILL HAVE A CHOICE though!
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post #58 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That Apple doesn't take the business/financial world seriously. Spreadsheets and anything numeric are just not completed and created as fast or convenient without a number pad. Many Apple users (creative and publishing) never use it ,and that I understand, but you don't just cut off the non-creative user part of a desktop. What the hell were they thinking?

I still don't get how they would actually mock Apple - it's hard to imagine them trying to get that message across in a way that wouldn't make them look more ridiculous than Apple. And has the iMac ever really been aimed at the business/financial world? For the most part it's a consumer machine.
post #59 of 155
This will lead to a lot of returns.
post #60 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That Apple doesn't take the business/financial world seriously. Spreadsheets and anything numeric are just not completed and created as fast or conveniently without a number pad. Many Apple users (creative and publishing) never use it ,and that I understand, but you don't just cut off the non-creative user part of a desktop. What the hell were they thinking?

i didnt see the business / financial world rushing to adopt Macs before this keyboard change, so, considering the fact we still have a FREE option of the old keyboard, how is this going to affect those businesses "on the fence" about buying macs? Right - it's not.
post #61 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by fraklinc View Post

Agreed, i'll be mad as hell if i walk into a best buy and buy a iMac and it came with a keyboard with the number pad missing. This really is a bad idea, the Apple online store gives you a option when ordering a new machine but i wonder how stores like best buy are going to handle this.

If the models at Bestbuy display this abridged keyboard I wonder how sales will be affected by business students, accountants, and financial people in general?
post #62 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

If the models at Bestbuy display this abridged keyboard I wonder how sales will be affected by business students, accountants, and financial people in general?

My guess would be that the relatively small group of people in those categories who are considering an iMac would just buy it elsewhere with the full size option.
post #63 of 155
I'll buy one of these. I already bought the bluetooth keyboard for my iMac because I like to keep my desktop free and my mouse close at hand. I very seldom need or want a numeric keypad.

Now I wish Apple would fix the so-called mighty mouse, and replace its glitchy track ball with some reliable, touch-sensitive device. I much prefer the Logitech VX Revolution.
post #64 of 155
What the hell? I have to say for the first time in 10 years I pretty much hate all of Apple's computers. I despise the glass screens, hate the new keyboard and they found a way to make them even worse by leaving out the numbers key. I wouldn't buy that crappy iMac anyway, but if people need a numeric keyboard they'll have to order them online, the same going with the 17" matte display. What is Apple doing, trying to keep some people out of their retail stores?
post #65 of 155
I love all the people on here making excuses for Apple's flub. A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story. That's an industry standard for a desktop.
post #66 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Pecking at numbers at the top of your keyboard is just not more efficient than a numbered keyboard.

Very few uses require only inputing numbers, and as soon as you have to add any characters or more 'complex' mathematical characters (like parentheses) you have use the main keyboard area anyway and switching back and forth between the main block and the number block is certainly not efficient.

This naturally all assumes touch-typing since touch-typing is definitely more efficient than type-by-view.
post #67 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I love all the people on here making excuses for Apple's flub. A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story. That's an industry standard.

Duh, and a numbered keyboard is included, Apple just gives you the choice between one without and one with a number block. But why let reality interfere with your sense of superiority.
post #68 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by jawporta View Post

make them even worse by leaving out the numbers key.

I am going to repeat it as often as necessary, Apple gives you a choice. If Apple gives no options, it is criticised for it, if it gives options, it is criticised for offering 'useless' options (useless to the person doing the criticising apparently means useless for everybody).
post #69 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Isidore View Post

The real world is based on numbers.

And do you realise that any smart person that has to deal with larger amounts of numbers, writes code to process the numbers instead of typing them in? And writing code requires a lot of characters beyond numbers, which most of the time your hands will be on the main part of the keyboard.
post #70 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macfabulous View Post

STOP THE WHINING ALREADY!!!!

If only they would.

As I have told every one of my students and clients, when it comes to selecting a keyboard or mouse, it is like buying gloves or mitts. Don't expect to find one store/manufacturer that can satisfy everybody. Don't expect the one your best friend uses is best for you. Don't expect that the one the company buys is the best choice for you to play games at home.

Cripes, it is like in pro baseball. I'll bet there are not two of the same gloves on the same team. And I'll even bet, that their golf gloves are different too.
post #71 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

I am going to repeat it as often as necessary, Apple gives you a choice. If Apple gives no options, it is criticised for it, if it gives options, it is criticised for offering 'useless' options (useless to the person doing the criticising apparently means useless for everybody).

You're totally delusional. The whole world that's has been receiving standard number blocked keyboards is wrong- and you're right.
post #72 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

And do you realise that any smart person that has to deal with larger amounts of numbers, writes code to process the numbers instead of typing them in? And writing code requires a lot of characters beyond numbers, which most of the time your hands will be on the main part of the keyboard.

Have you ever written a spreadsheet?? Obviously not- to have written such an asinine post.
post #73 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

Very few uses require only inputing numbers, and as soon as you have to add any characters or more 'complex' mathematical characters (like parentheses) you have use the main keyboard area anyway and switching back and forth between the main block and the number block is certainly not efficient.

This naturally all assumes touch-typing since touch-typing is definitely more efficient than type-by-view.

A spreadsheet by definition has columns and rows of numbers!! That's right- numbers!
post #74 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

I love all the people on here making excuses for Apple's flub. A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story. That's an industry standard for a desktop.

You and all your whining friends here are such babies it is unbelievable. For no extra money you can choose the keyboard with a numeric keypad. What's the problem? The reason Apple does not choose it as default option is because most people don't make use of the keypad. If you remember when SJ introduced the alu wireless keyboard he said that what users value is their desktop - the real one, not the virtual one. I have no reason to doubt that. Adding 6" of distance between the keyboard and the mouse is inefficient and wasteful if you aren't going to use it. Its all very simple.
post #75 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It figures you would be trying to defend and make something "logical" out of anything illogical coming out from Apple.

Well, at least I try to make a contribution to the overall picture and advance knowledge and understanding on the topics I post about, even if I'm wrong, and even if I come across poorly in one way or another. What is your agenda? Why do you post these snippy one-liners that are only meant to call someone else out? What's the point in that beyond your own self-satisfaction?

As far as making a contribution on this particular post, your assertion that Apple has "cut off" (ZOMG!) the "non creative" (presumably you mean business oriented), part of the market by making the default keyboard without the number pad is pretty ridiculous in light of the fact that the option for the old keyboard is still there. Most businesses would order in bulk from the Apple store online and can easily specify that they want the keyboard with the number pad. Who starts a business by going to BestBuy for a computer anyway? And even if they did, we do not at this point know what BestBuy is going to do about this new situation, so basing your whole schtick on some assumptions you've made about that is again kind of ridiculous.

Furthermore, your other assertion that "A numbered keyboard should be included as the default- end of story." is way over the top and totally rude. What's the point of coming here just to dictate to everyone what you think? Why not ask a question once in a while since you are so rarely accurate in your various "pronouncements from the mountain-top?" Why not drop the profanity laden "nasty-guy" act and have some humility for a change?
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post #76 of 155
Why doesn't somebody just develop an LCD keyboard? The lack of tactile feedback would be compensated for in the same way that the iPhone/iTouch compensates for it: by showing you large versions of the letters on the screen.

This would solve tons of problems:

1) No need for various international keyboards, Dvorak, etc. This would be especially beneficial for French Canadians, who are cursed with an extremely rare variety of keyboard, the French version of QWERTY (in France, they use AZERTY). They need to wait longer than most if their favourite brand of keyboard changes.
2) Keyboard shortcuts could be displayed prominently when somebody presses a modifier key (ex Comand)
3) Gaming. Gamers could see which keys do what (ex "W" is to go forward)
4) Dual-trackpad functionality. If I want to turn the keyboard into a giant trackpad, there's nothing stopping me).

What's preventing computer makers in general from doing this?
post #77 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by JavaCowboy View Post

Why doesn't somebody just develop an LCD keyboard? The lack of tactile feedback would be compensated for in the same way that the iPhone/iTouch compensates for it: by showing you large versions of the letters on the screen.

This would solve tons of problems:

1) No need for various international keyboards, Dvorak, etc. This would be especially beneficial for French Canadians, who are cursed with an extremely rare variety of keyboard, the French version of QWERTY (in France, they use AZERTY). They need to wait longer than most if their favourite brand of keyboard changes.
2) Keyboard shortcuts could be displayed prominently when somebody presses a modifier key (ex Comand)
3) Gaming. Gamers could see which keys do what (ex "W" is to go forward)
4) Dual-trackpad functionality. If I want to turn the keyboard into a giant trackpad, there's nothing stopping me).

What's preventing computer makers in general from doing this?

price (actually, I believe it already exists)
post #78 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by luke1robb View Post

...Apple might be prepping a multi-touch glass trackpad for their desktop line. ...one could attach (via usb) a trackpad to either end of the keyboard (lefty or righty).

Don't blow this off, I think its gonna happen in some manner. Multi-touch is still non-existent on their desktop line, a glaring signal to me.

Thoughts?

I would ABSOLUTELY LOVE to get rid of this antiquated mouse attached to my keyboard and use a glass trackpad instead. I love the one on my MacBook, Why can't I have one on my iMac?

That would ROCK!
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post #79 of 155
I understand some people wanting a keyboard with numeric pad. There are plenty of tasks for which it is indispensable.

But half of the comments here are just moronic. As if people can't comprehend that others have different needs than themselves. (Oh wait, this is the internet. Carry on. )

For those of you who can't comprehend the motivation behind numeric-padless keyboard...
here are a couple reasons.

Many people never use the numeric pad. For them the smaller keyboard is more convenient and ergonomic. If balancing the keyboard on your lap, it works better without a numeric pad. If using a mouse next to the keyboard on a desk, the mouse is in a more convenient and ergonomic position without the numeric pad. Also, it takes up less space on the surface of the desk.

(*Certainly these criteria aren't paramount for everyone.)
post #80 of 155
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Pecking at numbers at the top of your keyboard is just not more efficient than a numbered keyboard. I swear some people will just eat sh*t and die if Apple tells them to.

As usual, YMMV. I type 80wpm on the top row.
What I don't get is people who insist on being vulgar and snipe-ish simply because a company doesn't tailor its options specifically to them.
Must be such a sad life.
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