Benchmarks of 2009 iMacs, Mac minis show negligible speed-ups - Page 4

Well that slightly disappointing.

Will be interesting to see the New Mac Pro performance with Motion3; especially using the paintbrush tool in 3D.

Phill
[twitter: http://twitter.com/phillipgibb]
[blog: http://synapticlight.com/]

Question:Who the hell buys a computer based solely on clock speed?

Answer: Idiots

Question:Who the hell relies on benchmarks based solely on clock speed?

Answer: Idiots

I was really looking forward to purchasing a new iMac and had delayed purchase in anticipation of some great Apple ingenuity. Unfortunately I felt let down, as a lot of others in this forum are. I get a nagging feeling that I'd be squeezed for each penny (And/Or they just threw up their hands and said we don't really give a S&*t), that Apple's staff meetings consist of more marketing and pricing analysis than innovative designs and features. I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation, but I fail to see vision in these products (Mac Pro excluded). Hey, I'd even pay more for higher quality/performance, just give me the option.

I'm planning on waiting for more benchmarks on performance. I don't know if I'll buy a previous model, wait for the back to school special, or maybe just spring for a Sony Viao (quite the package now). If anyone in-the-know has any inputs for someone dissuaded by these offers please advise.

To mis-quote Obi-Wan,
"These aren't the upgrades you're looking for.
You can go about your business.
Move along."

I too was hoping for a more radical upgrade (at least quad core and LED backlight), so I was also disappointed.

Instead of replacing my G5 iMac, I ordered a 15" MBPro (unibody refurb), and will look to the next iMac refresh for a reason to upgrade my G5. I need an Intel Mac now to start iPhone development.

I like everyone was eagerly waiting for this imac update but was bitterly disappointed.
I have an almost 6 year old imac fp and indeed these imacs would be a hell of an upgrade from this model but the problem is that my next imac has to do me probably another 6 years so I'm looking for as new/good a computer as I can get for as much future proofing as I can get.
These models in my opinion are already 1 year old they are 2007/2008 technology which will have to last me to around 2015. If Apple had put a 4 core model in at the top with an LED screen I would be in the Apple store now but they didn't so I'm not. I think I will wait until the message gets through to Apple that they can't increase (UK) prices for the same computers (essentially) and get away with it.
Have Apple ever been to a computer store? They are selling half decent computers for £400 now. Now they aren't as good as macs but people who don't know better look at the two tickets one for imac one for a pc and plump for the pc at half the price. Apple need to make the imac a compelling buy, they aren't.
This update was a big mistake and I hope Apple change their minds and get their fingers out and produce a top grade computer instead of palming us of with last years models.

Yup go for the MacBook or MacBook Pro Alu Unibody - refurbished. I'm staring down an opportunity now to pick up the MacBook 2.0 Alu for 15% off (about USD $1,000). And I get to inspect the Mac first before closing the deal.

But you know what, I just ain't thinking about it that hard. My Core Duo White MacBook is still kicking. My mind wanders to the thought of a USD $700 self-assembled kickass Nvidia GTX 260 (none of this GT 120 (Nvidia ~9600) rebranded stuff) desktop driving a 19" or 22" monitor. And it would chew pixels like a pig on slop and put all but the Radeon 4850 iMac (which is $2500) to shame.

But hey... That's just me... Ever since my Nvidia 6600GT I got quite fascinated with GPUs and I've always had a soft spot for gaming.

I don't care about Core i7. Even an AMD dualcore Athlon, put in a GTX 260, 22" screen, hand-pick your components... Give me $700 and I'll show you something that really kicks butt.

Get a Mac Mini that will last you a solid 3 years including a little RAM or hard disk upgrade here or there. Unless you're into gaming... In which case... I just wouldn't know what to say.

The £929.00 MacBook Aluminium could last you 4 years, including a little RAM and hard disk upgrade. Can always easily connect it to an external screen... An big external screen breathes life into an aging 13" laptop like almost nothing else.

The top-notch, real software+hardware value is in the MacBook Alu. line right now. Other Apple offerings are more software value and weaker on hardware bang-for-buck.

Judging by most forum responses, perhaps we've all set our expectations high. We all wanted quad core and dedicated 9600GT graphics in the mid-range iMacs. That an LED backlighting, perhaps. And no weirdness like chopped off keyboards.

Is there any chance that these upgrades could be a stop gap before something more ground breaking?

Now that Apple have standardised their laptops around one basic design is there any chance they could do the same with their dektops?

A 17" iMac to replace the MacMini?
An iMac Pro to replace the Mac Pro?

All with a redesigned enclosure and touch screen versions?

Add some form of black box product without a screen for those who need a server / self-customisable product?

Just thinking out loud - don't know if this is feasible or even sensible.

They could be holding out for Snow Leopard for example, where you'll get some amazing things** you can do with your Mac leveraging powerful GPUs and CPUs with 4 cores and more.

Apple needs to redesign the iMac anyway to make it more green. LED Backlights, get rid somehow of the huge plastic bit at the back. More similar to LED Cinema Display.

But the economy the way it is, and Steve not in the picture, *sigh*. I really don't know.

**Apple needs to figure out WHAT these amazing things really are.

Apple needs to have an App Store for Mac Apps. Sounds crazy? I don't think so.

How much value has the App Store added to iPod Touch and iPhone 3G? Could the same thing be done for Mac Apps? Instead of disparate online/ retail/ shareware could there be an iTunes Store for Mac Apps? For Snow Leopard onwards? Or even for Leopard? Encourage more development for Mac, validate the apps as usual, put to bed that argument "Oh, but on my PC I can easily do... etc..."

Apple's point has been that CPU growth is slowing down. The GPU is becoming much more important, not only for graphics, but for other tasks as well. That's why Apple embarked on OpenCL and Grand Central.

I think users are going to notice a significant difference for the majority of tasks especially after Snow Leopard is released.

By the way, integrated graphics using the Nvidia 9400 should no longer be looked down upon as crap. It's now competitive with low to mid-tier discrete graphics cards.

For some funny reason, this is just like most first posts that are hitting Appleinsider and Macworld as well.

Crap on Apple, its staff, Jobs, Mac,s without hesitation. Threatening to buy pcs, which in itself questions the bloggers true identity; once a Mac, you never go back.

Alway wants this, wants that, cheaper, cheaper, and are sickeningly disappointed.

Just perusing through the last few articles, out of the 24 new posters, there were 15 trashers, 3 were neutral and 6 were positive. Most interesting: a significant number of newbies are from the UK and just seemed they couldn't wait to spew crap.

More intriguing, they seem to be using the same words or phrases, like, "I have respected Apple for having a vision of innovation" But again, most have never had a Mac.

Bottom line: I think that a lot of the trolls are not a lot. Just one or two AH's that multi-registered.

Thanks. These numbers mean nothing.

Seriously, do you think Apple is happy that the top end of the iMac line is still a 3.06GHz dual-core? The iMac delay may well have been due to Apple experimenting with quad cores in the iMac and ultimately after building and testing prototypes, deciding that the reliability of the new cooling system was not good enough. Has everyone forgotten the liquid-cooling PowerMac G5s?

Too many are posting from emotion, without much reason to back it up. Give Apple some credit for vision - Apple embarked on OpenCL and Grand Central over 18 months ago; it's clear Apple could see the trend for Intel CPUs relative to power and cost. They surprised everyone once before when they switched from PowerPC to Intel precisely for power and cost; this trend killed Motorola years ago, Intel managed to innovate just enough to hold it off for another two years. Even though Apple doesn't publish its roadmap, don't you think Apple has an internal roadmap that clearly keeps tabs on this?

It's too bad that Snow Leopard isn't already here - we've seen that internally for some at Apple, 1Q was a goal (but I think 3Q is more likely). Hopefully it will make a big difference and begin to blow away Windows PCs (running faster chips).

At $599, on paper you coyodnhave thrown in a entry i7. Why not, they bumped the GPU and realize laptops sell more and now, in some regard offerva machine with girewirenand decent audio video ( stop waiting for benchmarks), camcorder and slight possibility apple didn't cripple it. If so you'll see these in edit bays servers farms audio bay. So why not an entry level 7 chip. They are not xpensive and wouldhavenmade the mini one killer machine that is not portable but very strong. Woulndnhave sold millions. Think of all the promsumernmusicians,editors, mom and pop 1 to 1 users and all the IT users fir target mode. What could have been more epic will porbanly be an eclipse. Typing=iPhone

If people don't buy these updates and keep complaining, you'll be right. If people are impatient or stupid and buy them anyway, then probably not. They'll take the higher profit margins on quite old hardware gladly if there are enough suckers who keep buying them. Then they can brag about their massive profits, shareholders will be happy, and fanboys will say Apple rocks because they're making larger profits off of them.

I say, keep up the anger, don't buy them, and we'll see a real update late this summer unless they really don't care about their consumer desktop market anymore (and are just using it for easy high profits from diehards and the unfortunate people who don't know any better).

Yep, and penryn is pretty old technology. Now there are consumer PCs shipping with quad core i7 that will leave even the newest fastest iMac in the dust.

Why do people keep using geekbench? It measures theoretical performance and has no bearing on real world application performance.

Idea. I work fir an IT tech firm, mostly Apple they pay us to maintain our equipment. Wonder if I can find out about getting a mobo and CPU non soldered. LOL

If anything, the Mac Pro suffered the worst from these updates, demotion from 8 to quad, demotion to 8 gigs of ram, and a big price boost.


But does OSX support that hardware functionality?


Yeah, because during an economic crisis the last thing you want to do is SELL MORE MACHINES.


Yes.

True but doesn't 5200 rpm kill the mini. Could have been a killer machine Like a laptop.

"Steve" has been the problem since 2005. He decided to kill the consumer affordable PowerMac desktop line and made people choose between an expensive non-upgradeable All-in-One (using laptop parts) or an insanely expensive mega "Pro" line. Steve was fine prior to 2005, when Apple offered a reasonable selection (iMacs for the cheap end, low-end PowerMacs for mid-range, high-end PowerMacs for the "professionals"). Unfortunately, they decided to turn Apple from the fun, alternative computer to a high end fashion brand like Gucci. Why not make higher profits on fewer items sold to a smaller demographic? Great for Apple shareholders, bad for the average person. Their market share has barely grown, despite people being fed up with Windows and not being locked into Windows like they were in the 90's.

Anyway, this is still the work of Steve. The early 2000's Steve was great, but things have changed. I honestly can't wait for him to go now.

Great question. I have seen tons of defending the new quad based on ECC, but nobody has been able to explain how specifically it makes a difference to the person sitting there running the apps.

Question Who the hell buys desktop computers with integrated graphics and laptop processors that are over a year old?

Answer:

Ha ha ha. I know. Apple has me all in a bunch. I do mostly audio on the side. Cd samples for Sony sonic foundryband ultimate soundbanks. I get more powernfrom my 2.4 glossy MacBook pro FireWire 800 external running target leopard FireWire 400 for pro audio than a dual g5. Almost double the FPU meaning a lot of plug INS. I was saying though. Since they miles FireWire on laptop macbook and knowing mb sell more than desktop. Maybe mini will run motion fcp, if so, a pleasant surprise. The 1st - 3rs ten MacBook didn't play games but ran pro apps untilmapple killed it with x1300 or x300. Of course latest has no FireWire so am hopefuln that you might be able to run pro apps. Wouldnmake a great backup machine too. Daisy chained to ext. Hdrives. Typing=iPhone.

You may have a point about trolls Abster2core, but you must appreciate this update looks very different on opposite sides of the Atlantic. It's significant how many US customers are unhappy with it, the price drop notwithstanding. It could be argued that this is a departure from the long established Apple model of maintaining price points while upgrading the tech, whereas this is pretty much maintaining the tech while dropping the price. From where I'm sitting that doesn't look like such a bad deal, because over here all we got really was a whopping price rise. Yes I am aware of currency fluctuatons, but with this update, when the pound is low to the dollar, Apple have passed on a full equivalence, yet eighteen months ago, when the currency situation was reversed we only ever got a partial equivalence. Or to put it simply, with a high pound we only got partial benefit, with the low pound we've got the full impact. This isn't playing fair, and just like with MS's Vista multi-version debacle - Home crap; just about works; with knobs on: whatever - people ain't buying it, either literally or figuratively. Somehow, Apple have managed to alienate a significant proportion of their (fiercely loyal) customer base, while simultaneously slamming the door on new customers. For example, I have a friend who does not have a computer (yes are there still some!) and he is now in the market for one. It has taken me months to prise him away from "But I can get a nice little Dell for £350" with all the added value, virus-free arguments I could summon, and had got him to the point where he was ready to bite. 'Just hang on a bit' I advised him, 'an update is overdue...' Well the update has come - result? One lost sale right there.

You would have to drag me screaming in chains into Vistaland, but my long overdue G4 iMac update, which this was going to be, has now been deferred until such time as Apple stops taking the piss out of their UK customers. Two lost sales just in my immediate orbit - and you can be sure that extrapolates into significant numbers nationwide. I said it in these forums two days ago - one nailed on certainty is that Apple's desktop sales in the UK are going to plummet this year, and it will be as a direct result of the worst decision Apple has made in my long time love affair with the company. Let's hope this is just an aberration, perhaps caused by SJ's unfortunate health issues, and that by the summer they get back to being a company that maintains the very high standards it has established over many years.

Nice one.

With all this complaining you would think that Apple claimed this would be the mother of all updates!!

I don't know what people were thinking but Apple promised nothing and no special event was held to indicate that this will be a major. Only few rumors websites and analysts made that claim.

Personally, by reading AI and following the news I did not expect a major update to Mac desktops. It just didn't make sense especially in these now with PC sales declining and the economy taking hits on a daily bases. The only consistent rumor was the graphics upgrade and that was obvious. What I think is significant in this update is the iMac price cut (in the US) which I think will increase sales. At least now we can cash out on the high Dollar rate.

I think Apple had two choices, either to upgrade the processor and keep the price the same or keep the processor the same and lower the price. Even Apple can't completely dodge this economy,

ECC memory, as you know, prevents the random errors caused by outside problems such as cosmic rays. Now, we've had this discussion before (not with you), where a couple of people laughed at that idea. But it's a bigger problem all the time as circuits get smaller. I provided several links about it, and those people vanished.

It's not important for most people. But Servers and most workstations do use ECC memory because their work is often more critical.

It might not matter if a bit or two in a photo goes astray, but on a transaction database it could be a disaster. The same thing for scientific research. That's why you don't find consumer machines being used in those areas.

The 9400M is great in the MacBook. Definitely something to shout about. But for it to drive a 1680x1050 20" and a 1900x1200 24" on a *desktop* which features include *gaming* and increased, as you mention, dependence on GPU for better user experience... I mean, that's stretching it. After about a year going from Radeon 2600 256mb dedicated VRAM to a 9400 integrated... and looking 2 to 3 years ahead... I think its asking way too much of the 9400M and demonstrates "hacky" thinking on Apple management's part.


Well, I don't know how many are in my situation, I use a Mac but also used to use a PC for gaming. In my situation, and there may be people like me, instead of getting a better Mac now I am just thinking of hanging on to my 3 year old one, and getting a high-value advanced-component PC on the side.

I can't go back to my main machine not being a Mac, of course. But my thinking is now more in terms of contingency if my main Mac craps out (AppleCare 3 year runs out in May) ~ what Mac would I get? Maybe the white 9400M MacBook 'coz there's some great value there or maybe a refurb MacBook Alu. Nothing more. Possibly something less, the absolute base Mac Mini. My budget/ income/ aspirations aside, I am cleary influenced by the latest updates to "hold off, wait and see, hold the fort", while all these stimulus packages around the world start injecting grease back into the wheels of the global economy...

Trolls aside, perhaps there are quite a number in my position, perhaps.

Ha ha, anything that haven't been updated for that long will be more powerful!

Ironically, the quad Mac Pro is the xMac everyone wanted. Just at twice the size and twice the price. Basically it is a Mac version of sexy Core i7 (though not marketed as Core i7, just Nehalem...) ~ for the premium consumer markets...?

People that have work to do and don't have time to whine about the latest and greatest in an online forum.

Or to put it another way, way more people than those that are concerned about such trivial things.

Millions

Computer growth in 2008 was 17.8%, 2009 computer growth is projected at 8.2%. Notebooks are expected to account for 63% of computer sales in 2009, desktops are expected to be way down.

Looking at these projections and looking at Apple's actions. Apple has had a major update with its notebooks which have achieved strong sales. From these projections its not likely Apple would sell a significant number of desktops even if it had a major update. Strategically it would be better for Apple to have a major desktop update when the economy rebounds and money is flowing again.

Right. The economy will rebound in 8 months right? If you've been following the news, the global economy is whacked right now and no one seems to know what is going to happen 4 months from now. So, Apple should just keep selling Core 2 Duos at $1300+ until this recession is over in 1, 2, 3 years. Rip off their fans and people who don't know any better during tough economic times. Great company.

Well will see the outcome when the smoke clears. Their isn't much purpose in having faster machines when no one is buying them. Lost revenue and laid off works force don't care about Core i7.

Answer is that over 50% of computers sold have Intel integrated GMA, which Intel does not update very often. Millions of computers are sold with old technology.

What economists are sure of is the fact that 2009 will be terrible. Its expected and hoped that the economy will begin to recover around late 2009 into early 2010. The recovery will take some time to get things back to full speed. No the recession is not expected to last 2 or 3 years.

It would not be the best move for Apple to launch new desktops right in the middle of the worst part of the recession. When desktops are expected to have the worst sales they've had in 10 years.

Not quite - they didn't test the NEW 3.06 GHz iMac.

For the record : I luv my 3 year old 20" white iMac and would not trade it up for any of these new ones for anything in the world. Why do you have such a problem with that? I'm not the only one. And I've owned and used Macs for over 10 years.
I simply stated I will probaby buy a MacMiini and save $1,000 now- is that threatening to buy a PC?. Is that such a crime against Apple?
Do you even own an iMac?
And again you call people names (trolls) just because they don't like what's being offered?? WTF??