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Dow Jones claims confirmation of Apple netbook - Page 5

post #161 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Of course Apple's going to deliver something that runs OS X and has roughly an 8" screen or so.

Great post, hmurchison!

So you suggest the new Apple 'netbook' will run on ARM CPUs - just like the Touch Book.
I speculated about this a while ago too and concluded it's the only way for Apple to offer something substantially cheaper without cannibalizing its current Mac models.

You suggest, unlike the Touch Book, it will not come with a keyboard, but have the option to plug one in via USB. Yet adding one via USB is not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's setup.

But why not use Bluetooth? Apple already has a tiny Bluetooth keyboard. Why introduce a USB version? Probably means the new netbook will not have Bluetooth.
But that means no tethering with iPhones either! Which would seem like a no-brainer (with additional tethering data plan of course).

I really like the Touch Book's 3 internal USB slots. Smart. Just plug in your USB dongle/drive - and leave it there most of the time. Or add WiFi. Or 3G data modems.

But will Apple's netbook also have a 1024x600 display, or much less?


Somehow everyone expects Apple's netbook to be an overgrown iPod touch. But that's not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's hardware.
Will Apple innovate further?

One tech I'd like to add to the list:
The 17" MacBook Pro's smart battery. Might give the netbook 24 hour battery life.


I feel a bit sorry for the Touch Book guys. They try to create an 'iPod touch like netbook' for the masses - only to have Apple come in and steal the thunder (if the rumors are true)...

When is it coming?
My guess: introduction at WWDC as 'One More Thing', shipping in September - to give developers time to re-compile their software for ARM CPUs. It really would need to be WWDC IMHO as it is a completely new OSX platform.


One thing's not clear though:
If Apple were to introduce this in Q3, why would they purchase Samsung's April Flash production? With prices falling and economies declining, waiting a few months could only save them money. Especially if according to rumors productions will only start in Q3.
post #162 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Why do they keep referring to this as a netbook? Isn't it more of a touch tablet? I doubt that it will have a lid.

I agree. A touch screen does *NOT* make sense with a clamshell notebook or standard desktop computer where the interaction would be with a vertically-oriented display! who is going to want to hold their arms in the air in front of them manipulating a touch display??? The ergonomics just don't make any sense..

If there really is a device being made with a ~9-10 touchscreen, I'd have to assume it is going to be some type of multi-touch tablet, either with a smartphone/UMPC style slide-out keyboard on the bottom that is parallel to the display or lacking a physical keyboard altogether.
post #163 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I can agree Apple is likely to deliver more portable devices. Its difficult to say what exactly that product will be or exactly when they will deliver it. This year isn't really the best year to launch a new platform or a radically new product.

I don't understand this reasoning? Not good for who, Apple or the Consumer? I think if they are one of the few companies still coming out new products (even developing a new platform), then that would work in their favor, not against. And I think the consumers are still willing to buy - a lot of them (not all obviously) have hardly been hit by these times, despite what the news is saying 24hr a day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

From a technical standpoint this may be true. But from a real world user standpoint tablets never took off. Smartphone sales will soon surpass sales of entire PC industry.

Mainly because the crippling reality of a tablet sets in after a while. Unless theres a keyboard, the entire thing feels gimicky and hard to use. The people who are more willing to dish out money on the latest and greatest things are often looking for things that make specific tasks easier or more effecient. Netbooks work because of that, tablets fail. A combination of the two (an open marriage, of sorts) should work well, especially now with the new "touchscreen" smart phone phenomenon. I can't imagine too many people utilizing a tablet w/o a keyboard. Even if it flips out (like someone had thought was a good idea) I can't imaging too many people trying to hold a 9" tablet trying to type with their thumbs.

Having the Option to combine the two follows what a lot of users wish they could do (and some can): attach a bluetooth keyboard on their Smart Phone.
post #164 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Well that is all certainly speculation on your point. We know that Apple is only willing to support profitable products, Apple has improved and updated the Air. We know Apple's notebook revenues have only increased since the introduction of the Air, that leaves no reason to assume the Air is unprofitable.


I beleive it was an article on here that the number of switchers from windows had risen as well, so it does not necessarily correlate to the Air selling well. And Apple does sell items that are not profitable, the Mac Mini and Apple TV are two devices that may be breaking a profit now but they sure didn't for the first spin of their existence.
post #165 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

I didn't post last years number, those numbers are projected for 2009.

You miss on the fact that there are new netbook prototypes with larger screens. No I see absolutely no evidence that most people want 10" netbooks, with tiny keys and trackpads.

Except that the 12" netbooks have been tepid sellers and the 9" ones a tad too small.

The 10" ones are highly anticipated or selling well. All they need is Ion and slightly higher resolution (say 1366 x 768).
post #166 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

I agree. A touch screen does *NOT* make sense with a clamshell notebook or standard desktop computer where the interaction would be with a vertically-oriented display! who is going to want to hold their arms in the air in front of them manipulating a touch display??? The ergonomics just don't make any sense..

If there really is a device being made with a ~9-10 touchscreen, I'd have to assume it is going to be some type of multi-touch tablet, either with a smartphone/UMPC style slide-out keyboard on the bottom that is parallel to the display or lacking a physical keyboard altogether.

I love folks that have never looked at tablets but are willing to make comments anyway.

Convertible tablets are clamshell notebooks that allow you to flip the screen over to go into tablet mode. The only better tablet design is the Always Innovating one with a detachable screen. The downside of that one is that it's Linux only.
post #167 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

I feel a bit sorry for the Touch Book guys. They try to create an 'iPod touch like netbook' for the masses - only to have Apple come in and steal the thunder (if the rumors are true)...

I don't. The Touch Book guys screwed themselves with the ARM processor. That means Linux only since they aren't Apple.

What they SHOULD have done is run Atom and Windows 7 and put a bigger battery in the base for a longer runtime when docked to the keyboard. As is, they have an epic fail on their hands in at least the US market.

Not even Apple can really get away with an ARM based netbook unless it can convince MS to do an OSX/ARM port of Office. Neither iWork or OpenOffice cuts it.
post #168 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by hobBIT View Post

Great post, hmurchison!

You suggest, unlike the Touch Book, it will not come with a keyboard, but have the option to plug one in via USB. Yet adding one via USB is not nearly as smart as the Touch Book's setup.

But why not use Bluetooth? Apple already has a tiny Bluetooth keyboard. Why introduce a USB version? Probably means the new netbook will not have Bluetooth.
But that means no tethering with iPhones either! Which would seem like a no-brainer (with additional tethering data plan of course).

One tech I'd like to add to the list:
The 17" MacBook Pro's smart battery. Might give the netbook 24 hour battery life.

When is it coming?
My guess: introduction at WWDC as 'One More Thing', shipping in September - to give developers time to re-compile their software for ARM CPUs. It really would need to be WWDC IMHO as it is a completely new OSX platform.


One thing's not clear though:
If Apple were to introduce this in Q3, why would they purchase Samsung's April Flash production? With prices falling and economies declining, waiting a few months could only save them money. Especially if according to rumors productions will only start in Q3.

I agree on the Bluetooth it's probably the best option for a keyboard. I had a boss that used Motion Computing tablets and to me these ARE the way tablets should be. He was fast at taking notes with his stylus but when he needed to input a lot of data he either docked it to the Keyboard/Dock or used Nuance NaturallySpeaking to dictate in more notes. So in essence he carried around what 3lbs max of hardware and laughed everytime he saw the QWERTY tablets getting lugged around.

I think Apple definitely wants to use a sealed battery based on the new tech. 24 hours of runtime would be fantastic. The tethering plan sounds fantastic I'd certainly love that if ATT makes it affordable.

I think the NAND could be a cross between the new iPhone/iPod Touch and whatever tablet like Netbook thing Apple cooks up. I figure Apple knows that if they grab a lions share of the supply the prices won't go down substantially so that mitigates their risk.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I don't. The Touch Book guys screwed themselves with the ARM processor. That means Linux only since they aren't Apple.

What they SHOULD have done is run Atom and Windows 7 and put a bigger battery in the base for a longer runtime when docked to the keyboard. As is, they have an epic fail on their hands in at least the US market.

Not even Apple can really get away with an ARM based netbook unless it can convince MS to do an OSX/ARM port of Office. Neither iWork or OpenOffice cuts it.

For a Netbook Linux ain't half bad. You've got Ubuntu for ARM and pretty soon you'll have Android. I couldn't care less about running Windows on a Netbook. People don't seem to get it. The Netbook is simply a network computer that's portable feeding off of the Internet. Web technologies almost by definition are universal platform agnostic.

People aren't buying Netbooks for Office. If you want to run and edit Office you get a full size laptop.
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He's a mod so he has a few extra vBulletin privileges. That doesn't mean he should stop posting or should start acting like Digital Jesus.
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post #169 of 189
"netbook this. netbook that. netbook blah blah blah..."
Is anyone else annoyed by the sudden popularity of this term?
It is almost as annoying as web 2.0. Hmm, maybe I'll go tweet about it.


Anyway, if apple releases a tablet, I wonder if i'll have to eat my hat. For years i've been harping on the inherent disadvantages of a tablet form factor. Can a carefully thought out Apple tablet change my mind? Hmmm, I doubt it, unless it is priced so cheaply that people can afford one as a supplemental computing device, not their primary machine.
post #170 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Not even Apple can really get away with an ARM based netbook unless it can convince MS to do an OSX/ARM port of Office. Neither iWork or OpenOffice cuts it.

I bet they try. I really see Apple making this a feature that distinguishes it from a MacBook.

You want full OSX app compatibility then Apple wants you to buy a MB or better.

Cruise the net, check email and work with web apps, then look at our shiny new Apple Netbook. Its made just for people like you!

PS And iPhone developers will love this platform and I suspect many will port their apps to this machine and Apple will GLADLY sell them at the app store.
post #171 of 189
The timing is not good for anyone. We are in a seriously and historically low economy that in one way or another is effecting everyone. Its not the best environment for launching a new product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazinlwfl View Post

I don't understand this reasoning? Not good for who, Apple or the Consumer? I think if they are one of the few companies still coming out new products (even developing a new platform), then that would work in their favor, not against. And I think the consumers are still willing to buy - a lot of them (not all obviously) have hardly been hit by these times, despite what the news is saying 24hr a day.
post #172 of 189
The Air doesn't need to be a huge seller to be profitable. Hypothetically lets say the Air sold an average 100,000 units a quarter last year. Lets say the average selling price is $2000. This would mean the Air makes 200 million in revenue per quarter and 800 million in revenue per year. The Air is profitable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I beleive it was an article on here that the number of switchers from windows had risen as well, so it does not necessarily correlate to the Air selling well. And Apple does sell items that are not profitable, the Mac Mini and Apple TV are two devices that may be breaking a profit now but they sure didn't for the first spin of their existence.
post #173 of 189
Engadget showed some prototypes from Asus and MSI of 13" netbooks. The MSI version looked exactly like the Air.

I'm not saying their is no market for a 10" netbook, my point is their is no evidence most people want a 10" netbook.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Except that the 12" netbooks have been tepid sellers and the 9" ones a tad too small.

The 10" ones are highly anticipated or selling well. All they need is Ion and slightly higher resolution (say 1366 x 768).
post #174 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

The Air doesn't need to be a huge seller to be profitable. Hypothetically lets say the Air sold an average 100,000 units a quarter last year. Lets say the average selling price is $2000. This would mean the Air makes 200 million in revenue per quarter and 800 million in revenue per year. The Air is profitable.

Keep in mind that merely being profitable doesn't justify the existence of a product line.

The attention of Apple's higher-ups is finite. So the real question is, is a product profitable enough to justify not devoting that attention to a different product? What if everyone involved could have produced twice as much revenue by working on some other product?

I'm not trying to say anything about the Air in particular. But rather point out that merely being profitable isn't, in itself, proof of a wise product offering. The same concept might be applicable to the rumored netbook.
post #175 of 189


That's what I want!! Dual touch screen netbook!
post #176 of 189
At this point we can say with certainty the Air is profitable enough for Apple to offer it in their product mix. Apple hasn't been shy or emotionally attached to any particular product to not discontinue if they feel it no longer meet their needs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Keep in mind that merely being profitable doesn't justify the existence of a product line.

The attention of Apple's higher-ups is finite. So the real question is, is a product profitable enough to justify not devoting that attention to a different product? What if everyone involved could have produced twice as much revenue by working on some other product?

I'm not trying to say anything about the Air in particular. But rather point out that merely being profitable isn't, in itself, proof of a wise product offering. The same concept might be applicable to the rumored netbook.
post #177 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

At this point we can say with certainty the Air is profitable enough for Apple to offer it in their product mix. Apple hasn't been shy or emotionally attached to any particular product to not discontinue if they feel it no longer meet their needs.

Perhaps a less royal "we" is in order.

I don't think the Air is a bad product, but it isn't clearly the best use of Apple's staff and resources. It may be so. But I wouldn't go so far as declare it certain, especially without being privy to all the alternatives. Cue perpetual xMac whining, etc.

it will be interesting to see where in between an iPhone like sales graph and an Air sales graph the rumored apple product falls...
post #178 of 189
I'm not sure what alternatives you are referring too. The Air is a year old and has had a major refresh, what other evidence do you need to show that its certain Apple feels its worth their efforts?

Volume of sales between products directly depends on its sales price. No one expects a more expensive product to outsell a less expensive product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

Perhaps a less royal "we" is in order.

I don't think the Air is a bad product, but it isn't clearly the best use of Apple's staff and resources. It may be so. But I wouldn't go so far as declare it certain, especially without being privy to all the alternatives. Cue perpetual xMac whining, etc.

it will be interesting to see where in between an iPhone like sales graph and an Air sales graph the rumored apple product falls...
post #179 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

I had a boss that used Motion Computing tablets and to me these ARE the way tablets should be.

I have a motion computing tablet and this are NOT the way tablets should be. Docked it's okay, but the way the keyboard attaches for mobile use is weak. It sucks as a laptop replacement since the convertible keyboard sucks.

Quote:
He was fast at taking notes with his stylus but when he needed to input a lot of data he either docked it to the Keyboard/Dock or used Nuance NaturallySpeaking to dictate in more notes. So in essence he carried around what 3lbs max of hardware and laughed everytime he saw the QWERTY tablets getting lugged around.

Except that my netbook is lighter, has better keyboard integration and is a usable notebook replacement. If I really wanted the OneNote and tablet capability I could get the Gigabyte m912 (3 lbs - 3.4 lbs with brick). The only downside to the Gigabyte was the cost but more netbook tablets are on the way that are 10" and probably price competitve with other netbooks (Eeepc T101H, Fujitsu Lifebook M1010, Gigabyte M1028, etc)

Quote:
For a Netbook Linux ain't half bad. You've got Ubuntu for ARM and pretty soon you'll have Android. I couldn't care less about running Windows on a Netbook. People don't seem to get it. The Netbook is simply a network computer that's portable feeding off of the Internet. Web technologies almost by definition are universal platform agnostic.

People aren't buying Netbooks for Office. If you want to run and edit Office you get a full size laptop.

People are buying netbooks as notebook replacement. The basic needs are simple: web surfing, email and editing Office docs and showing a powerpoint presentations.

These are not network computers...they are functionally equivalent to notebooks from a few years ago. The 1.6Ghz Atom is slightly slower than the 1.13Ghz Pentium M (Tualatin) and faster than a 2.4Ghz P4 (Northwood). This is plenty fast for MS Office.

Google Docs, OpenOffice and iWork are not current replacements for MS Office and a network computer would do you no good on an airplane or anywhere without a network. Which is still a lot of places.

And windows appears to be preferred over Linux given the return rates in Linux netbooks. Personally, I have zero desire to run Linux over OSX or Windows. Especially since I lose both Office and iTunes. I can have a 500GB drive on my netbook that handles quite a bit of iTunes and photo storage and I don't have to use a lame assed linux photo editor like GIMP although I haven't tried LightZone. Which hopefully doesn't suck since it's actually a Windows/OSX product ported to Linux.
post #180 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

I bet they try. I really see Apple making this a feature that distinguishes it from a MacBook.

You want full OSX app compatibility then Apple wants you to buy a MB or better.

Cruise the net, check email and work with web apps, then look at our shiny new Apple Netbook. Its made just for people like you!

PS And iPhone developers will love this platform and I suspect many will port their apps to this machine and Apple will GLADLY sell them at the app store.

Well, if they do, at least I will get to keep iTunes...and apps that don't always suck.
post #181 of 189
You know what I keep thinking about? Those iPhone displays in ATT store windows.

THAT, that's what I want! LOL
post #182 of 189
Definitively not a fat tablet pc with a swivel screen but indeed more like a larger but light 9or 10 inch screen, much like the Macbook Air without the keyboard. For improved typing capability use the existing wireless bluetooth keyboard and mouse when at home or in the office, otherwise, use the screen. No need for a large drive as most content could be streamed from the network, either at home or the office. Hopefully also add a GPS module so the iPad could be used for navigation in the car when fixed.

Advantages:
- great for viewing internet / movies, etc.
- when at home/office, connect the screen to the (stand) adaptor for fixed internet connectivity, external speakers and external screen if necessary and loading the battery
- when connected to the stand, it could be used as a photo frame/iTunes radio device
- connect external wireless mouse and keyboard through bluetooth
- use internal GPS for navigation
- no need for telecom capability

In other words, think of it as the iPad used in Star Trek movies.
post #183 of 189
I have been a Tablet user for 4 years, until the MB Air came along. Now the company-provided Fujitsu-Siemens T5010 Tablet gathers dust, while I use MBAir for my private and business needs (as family we have iMacs, MacBook, etc.)
-\tSwivel-screen tablets are great for brainstorming (mind mapping software) and there is no better way to take notes at lectures/meetings. Period.
-\t13 screen is minimum for tablets like Letterhead/A4 paper size. There is a reason most notepads are that size 9 does not work tried it with FS P1620 and it is uncomfortable, too small to write effectively, primarily because of too small screen (handwriting is much larger than typing). As well thickness of the PC, the wrist slides off, uncomfortable.
-\tMB Air is perfect for business use: Mail, Word, Excel and PowerPoint (sorry, yes, M$) while travelling). I have WinXP installed on ParallelsDesktop for some specific business application (Siebel) and it works very well.
-\tMBAir is a perfect netbook. Small, light, does not get too hot (unlike FS T5010 which slow-cooked my left leg once). In fact I am lying on my couch right now, typing this on MBAir
-\tIf MB Air was a Tablet I would be very happy, it would allow me to do (relativly) unobtrusive note-taking at customer meetings.

So no, the 9 screen is not for a tablet, UNLESS it would be a Kindle-killer, i.e. a very thin, book-form jot-pad type iPod device, (music, films, books). Then it could also do unobtrusive casual note-taking (eg. at business lunch) with a stylus. There is a reason paper-backs are that size, as well as my Moleskin jot-pad, which I would gladly replace with similar-size Applekindle
post #184 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosmopolak View Post

-\tSwivel-screen tablets are great for brainstorming (mind mapping software) and there is no better way to take notes at lectures/meetings. Period.

Interesting post! I agree with most of it but have to take exception to the "period" in the above quote.

A keyboard and mouse/trackpad are by far the best way to take notes in most situations. Certainly diagramming and mathematics can benefit from stylus based input though. But most note taking tasks are linear and alpha-numeric in nature. If tablets were really the best for taking notes, stenographers would use them.

Edit:

Also, the optimal screen size is somewhat debatable. While you found a 9" suitable too small for your tasks, it would be still be good or even too big for other tablet users. For instance, delivery drivers and health care workers. Tablet computers are popular in these fields because tablets don't necessitate a desk and their tasks aren't terribly hampered by single handed finger or stylus input. For the deliver driver, a 9" screen is way more than adequate.

While I'm generally less than enthusiastic about tablet computing, I do at least recognize that they are optimal for some tasks... just not the ones that most people deal with on a regular basis. But hey, if cheap enough, i'd buy an apple tablet for use as a home theater remote.
post #185 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by petpirepete View Post



That's what I want!! Dual touch screen netbook!

Why would a dual touch screen netbook need a track-pad?
post #186 of 189
Sorry, should not have been so adamant about Tablet note-taking, of course there are other methods... My point was that people like A5 (9") size for jotting/reading books, A4/letterhead/13" for writing/watching albums/web. Apple knows this...

So what does Apple want with a 9" screen? Sorry, I will be monotonous, but how about a media-centre AppleTV/game console/computer with a 9" touch-screen that would allow operation without keyboard/mouse (touch screen similar to Logitech Remote 1000) plus magic wand?

Killer Toy!
post #187 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

I love folks that have never looked at tablets but are willing to make comments anyway.

Convertible tablets are clamshell notebooks that allow you to flip the screen over to go into tablet mode. The only better tablet design is the Always Innovating one with a detachable screen. The downside of that one is that it's Linux only.

Ridicule doesn't work well when you are responding to something you clearly didn't bother to read or comprehend.

Obviously most of us have seen a convertible tablet PC.. My comment was solely in regards to a traditional form factor "netbook" which is what has been reported all over the internet.
That said, I don't see Apple creating a (pointless IMO) convertible tablet notebook, and believe this has to be a slate/tablet-only device.
post #188 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I beleive it was an article on here that the number of switchers from windows had risen as well, so it does not necessarily correlate to the Air selling well. And Apple does sell items that are not profitable, the Mac Mini and Apple TV are two devices that may be breaking a profit now but they sure didn't for the first spin of their existence.

Please prove how those products aren't profitable.
post #189 of 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Ridicule doesn't work well when you are responding to something you clearly didn't bother to read or comprehend.

Obviously most of us have seen a convertible tablet PC.. My comment was solely in regards to a traditional form factor "netbook" which is what has been reported all over the internet.
That said, I don't see Apple creating a (pointless IMO) convertible tablet notebook, and believe this has to be a slate/tablet-only device.

No, I did comprehend your post. The point is that you completely ignored that convertible tablets beat the crap out of slates or UMPC style keyboards in terms of usefulness AND sales.

If folks really wanted slate macs then the modbook would have sold a lot better than I think it did. Same with motion computing vs all the convertible tablet makers. Heck Motion is still taking in VC money and just got $6M. Slates are used mostly for industrial/medical uses nowadays.

A 10" mac slate is a heck of a lot more pointless.
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