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Inside Apple's new third-gen iPod shuffle (teardown photos) - Page 2

post #41 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

The nice thing about the new shuffle, other than better handling of playlists, is the fact that your player can be deep within your clothing and you can still control the thing. This is a feature no other iPod tackles and very useful when performing sports, working around the house or anywhere where the wires can get caught, or when you don't want the iPod exposed (as in "come and get me!").

I wouldn't say that. That's the whole purpose of the wired remote that's always been available, and used to be included with the hard drive based iPods. iPhones and iPod Touches also have controls built into included earbuds.
post #42 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Makes me think of the SNL skit with Fred Armisen playing Steve Jobs stopping by as a guest on the news segment. Every few seconds he announced a new smaller and smaller device until he was finally holding up his empty fingers, pretending their was a tiny device there.

SNL: Ipod Invisa

SNL: iPhone
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post #43 of 82
You're paying 80 bucks for what now?

Hahaha.

I still want one.
post #44 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by BeaverbookG4 View Post

I was really excited about this new generation... Until my father bought one, and found out that there was NO fast forward OR rewind function (as in skipping seconds through songs)

This was confirmed by an apple store employee who said "Yes, this generation of the Ipod Shuffle does not have that feature." Since when did FF or REW become a FEATURE!?

Read the Manual:

double-click and hold = fast forward
triple-click and hold = rewind
post #45 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by floccus View Post

Why can't we all accept that in a few weeks someone will release an adapater that provides the remote functions and a 3.5jack for non-Apple headphones?

As for the post, I wonder how much Apple is influencing/investing in battery design? They made a trade off in capacity for size for the shuffle, but capacity will always be something they'll want to increase. With $20 billion lying around, I'd hope they're engaging some battery manufacturers to improve their R&D.

I would have preferred to have the volume rocker on one edge and the back/play-pause/forward rocker on the other side. It is large enough to fit both.

This is what I am waiting for. I want my controls near the unit and not by my head. Also, the controller is just cheap plastic and with all the pressure on a single button will wear this thing out over time more quickly since there are no dedicated forward/reverse buttons. Of course, one advantage to using an adapter with your own headphones could be that you don't have to recycle your iPod shuffle when the onboard buttons stop working (and the warranty expires). My wife's first shuffle simple will not respond to commands anymore.
post #46 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

That seals the lid on the coffin.

My earbuds have a built-in volume control....and it is a shuffle.
post #47 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

I wouldn't say that. That's the whole purpose of the wired remote that's always been available, and used to be included with the hard drive based iPods. iPhones and iPod Touches also have controls built into included earbuds.

Sort of. I remember the old remote. It came in addition to the headphones and you ended up with 3 miles of cable so that was kinda useless. But you are right about the optional iPhone headphones. Is the control in the same place as on the shuffle?

Anyway, I acknowledge all the doomsday scenarios, dire predictions and expressed sense of despair at the yet unseen and untested new shuffle but feel that perhaps the drama has been somewhat over played. Personally I just don't think it is a biggie and that on its own terms the new shuffle will prove to be very popular.

Next up - the ipod 'flea' (remember that one?) - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBwM2U77F2c
post #48 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Sort of. I remember the old remote. It came in addition to the headphones and you ended up with 3 miles of cable so that was kinda useless. But you are right about the optional iPhone headphones. Is the control in the same place as on the shuffle?

Yes, and they're not optional...standard on iPhone and iPod Touch.
post #49 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

You missed the point of BeaverbookG4's comment. He wants the ability to skip forward or back a few seconds at a time, rather than one track at a time:

No, I didn't miss the point. You didn't comprehend my statement, or read the Apple Manual.

To go back to the beginning of the track or go back to the previous track if you're already at the beginning, you triple click.

To fast rewind, you triple-click and hold.

To skip to the next track, you double click.

To fast forward through the track, you double click and hold.

We're not talking about the same thing here. The new Shuffle does have fast forward and rewind.
post #50 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

Yes, and they're not optional...standard on iPhone and iPod Touch.

Not in Canada. I got a standard iPhone headset with Mic but no controls. On the Apple web site it is listed separately as iPhone headphones w/ remote
post #51 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Not in Canada. I got a standard iPhone headset with Mic but no controls. On the Apple web site it is listed separately as iPhone headphones w/ remote

Really? On the 3g iPhone? They're standard in the US (at least when I bought mine in July 2008), with an optional IEM type for $79.

Same story with the Touch in Canada?
post #52 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

Yes, and they're not optional...standard on iPhone and iPod Touch.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Not in Canada. I got a standard iPhone headset with Mic but no controls. On the Apple web site it is listed separately as iPhone headphones w/ remote

I think Paxman is correct, The iPhone page for both the US and Canada list the same info on the headphones and I see no reason why they would change the for the Canadian 3G iPhone when they had it for the original iPhone.

The buttons don't have the volume controls yet, but you can click the area where the mic is. once for play/pause, twice to go to the next track and three times to get back a track.
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post #53 of 82
Every connection point with a wire is a stress point that increases the possibility of wear on the cord. Every time you wind up the earphones to put them away, even loosely, stresses those connections. Does anyone else see this design as more opportunity for split wire insulation or bad connections? On more than one occasion I've shut my glove compartment door or a drawer on my earphone wires when they unfolded in a way I didn't expect while putting them away. I see an opportunity for damaged controllers there too in this design.
post #54 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think Paxman is correct, The iPhone page for both the US and Canada list the same info on the headphones and I see no reason why they would change the for the Canadian 3G iPhone when they had it for the original iPhone.

The buttons don't have the volume controls yet, but you can click the area where the mic is. once for play/pause, twice to go to the next track and three times to get back a track.

OK, I see what you're saying now. Only some of the functions on the iPhone headset--not just the regular earbuds with a mic with no controls, but not as many functions as the latest Shuffle. Note that Paxman said "no controls."
post #55 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think Paxman is correct, The iPhone page for both the US and Canada list the same info on the headphones and I see no reason why they would change the for the Canadian 3G iPhone when they had it for the original iPhone.

The buttons don't have the volume controls yet, but you can click the area where the mic is. once for play/pause, twice to go to the next track and three times to get back a track.

You kid me not! I didn't even know my headset worked like this. Well, F1Turbo, I stand corrected (in part, at least) The headset / remote for the new Shuffle now seems more of a natural progression now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Every connection point with a wire is a stress point that increases the possibility of wear on the cord. Every time you wind up the earphones to put them away, even loosely, stresses those connections. Does anyone else see this design as more opportunity for split wire insulation or bad connections? On more than one occasion I've shut my glove compartment door or a drawer on my earphone wires when they unfolded in a way I didn't expect while putting them away. I see an opportunity for damaged controllers there too in this design.

WOAH - now you are digging deep!
post #56 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Every connection point with a wire is a stress point that increases the possibility of wear on the cord. Every time you wind up the earphones to put them away, even loosely, stresses those connections. Does anyone else see this design as more opportunity for split wire insulation or bad connections? On more than one occasion I've shut my glove compartment door or a drawer on my earphone wires when they unfolded in a way I didn't expect while putting them away. I see an opportunity for damaged controllers there too in this design.

That certainly a valid argument and refreshing point of concern from the typical complaining for the sake of complaining, but my personal experience with my iPhone headphones has not produced any such faults despite the abuse they receive. I have had my iPhone's USB cable replaced due to tearing while constantly wrapped in my pocket. The headphones now use a more rubbery casing over previous models, though I am not sure if that is true with the Shuffle. This rubbery cadinv also helps prevent them from getting tangled when wrapped up.
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post #57 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

OK, I see what you're saying now. Only some of the functions on the iPhone headset--not just the regular earbuds with a mic with no controls, but not as many functions as the latest Shuffle. Note that Paxman said "no controls."

The newest iPod Touch, which came out after the latest iPhone, has the volume controls on the cord, like the Shuffle, but does not have the ability to do the hold commands for FF and RW. Since this appears to require a HW chagne as my iPhone 3G can't use the volume contols of the new Apple in-ear phones. Though I'm sure that all
Will get the update with the next release. I hope VoiceOver comes to the other iPods, but it may be an issue for iTunes to make audio files of metadata for 10s of thousands of songs.
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post #58 of 82
. . . . .
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post #59 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The newest iPod Touch, which came out after the latest iPhone, has the volume controls on the cord, like the Shuffle, but does not have the ability to do the hold commands for FF and RW. Since this appears to require a HW chagne as my iPhone 3G can't use the volume contols of the new Apple in-ear phones. Though I'm sure that all
Will get the update with the next release. I hope VoiceOver comes to the other iPods, but it may be an issue for iTunes to make audio files of metadata for 10s of thousands of songs.

Thanks for confirming...I thought that was the case but was unable to verify on the Apple site. My son has the latest Touch, but couldn't find his earbuds.

The terminology for the earbuds is getting a bit confusing to me now. If you look at the comparison page for the iPods, only the Shuffle says "earphone with remote (no mic)," while the iPhone and iPod Touch clearly have some remote capability.
post #60 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1Turbo View Post

Thanks for confirming...I thought that was the case but was unable to verify on the Apple site. My son has the latest Touch, but couldn't find his earbuds.

The terminology for the earbuds is getting a bit confusing to me now. If you look at the comparison page for the iPods, only the Shuffle says "earphone with remote (no mic)," while the iPhone and iPod Touch clearly have some remote capability.

It is confusing and made a mistake. The shuffle is the first iPod to come WITH controls on the headset. However, the new Apple earbud and in-ear phones with controls and mic (sold seperately) work with the new iPods. They will allow you use voice recorder apps on the Touch (not sure about the Nano) and let you use the volume up/down, play/pause, and track FF/RW controls. I use the in-ear phones with my iPhones but they don't control the volume.
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post #61 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Every connection point with a wire is a stress point that increases the possibility of wear on the cord. Every time you wind up the earphones to put them away, even loosely, stresses those connections. Does anyone else see this design as more opportunity for split wire insulation or bad connections? On more than one occasion I've shut my glove compartment door or a drawer on my earphone wires when they unfolded in a way I didn't expect while putting them away. I see an opportunity for damaged controllers there too in this design.

Exactly- this is looking more and more like either a crass move from Apple to generate revenue from headphones or designed by someone who's not very active.
Exercising alone- how many times have we stressed, then broken connections to the speaker drivers for this very same reason.
post #62 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That certainly a valid argument and refreshing point of concern from the typical complaining for the sake of complaining, .

Please, people have been posting valid reasons up and down at AI, iLounge and other sites why this new iPod sucks for the last 3 days. Refreshing- HA!
post #63 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

WOAH - now you are digging deep!

No, personal experience. I've already replaced a set of fairly expensive earphones because the insulation at the point where the wire met the earbud split and eventually lost connection. I taped it up and kept using it as long as it worked. I didn't abuse the thing; the only real wear on it at that location was from winding up the cord to put it back in the case.
post #64 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Please, people have been posting valid reasons up and down at AI, iLounge and other sites why this new iPod sucks for the last 3 days. Refreshing- HA!

I implore you to compare the differences between GMHut's post and the typical "concerns" being posted.
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post #65 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

No, personal experience. I've already replaced a set of fairly expensive earphones because the insulation at the point where the wire met the earbud split and eventually lost connection. I taped it up and kept using it as long as it worked. I didn't abuse the thing; the only real wear on it at that location was from winding up the cord to put it back in the case.

OK, in terms of flimsy headphones in general I agree, but that this is a major design problem with the new Shuffle just seems a little far fetched. The ones you busted, were they Apple or 3rd party? I have had a couple of sets of headphones go, not because of the cable but because the ones that came with my g3 iPod and iPod mini just gave in eventually. They are CHEAP items so I never expected anything more. I don't know if a pair of expensive 3rd Party units would have lasted any longer. Possibly, but I only once bought a pair of expensive Sony's and they were so crappy I gave them away.
post #66 of 82
Solipsism - what do you mean by
Quote:
e1618978: "...everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear."

? To me it is funny but I wonder...
post #67 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I have had a couple of sets of headphones go, not because of the cable but because the ones that came with my g3 iPod and iPod mini just gave in eventually. They are CHEAP items so I never expected anything more.

I replaced the Apple earphones with better earphones because the Apple earphones "went" for me as well. I decided to step up to better sound quality while I was at it (3rd party, didn't know what I was missing, but was SO glad I did for that reason alone). I don't think I would be happy with listening to music if I went back to lesser sound quality. The fact the ones that came with it are cheap is the point. Even more expensive earphones are subject to the fact thin wire which flexes and bends constantly by nature wears outnature of the beast. They are what they are, only now they have double duty as the controllerjust sayin'
post #68 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I implore you to compare the differences between GMHut's post and the typical "concerns" being posted.

I respectfully defer to you to not to be so biased in your readings of most posts which are critical and labeling them as "complainings".
post #69 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Solipsism - what do you mean by
Quote:
e1618978: "...everything I know about the UK comes from Top Gear."

? To me it is funny but I wonder...

e1618978 posted that several days back. I found it very funny. Especially considering that despite my many travels to the UK, basic knowledge of British history and watching of many British TV shows over 2 decades I have probably learned more about the UK from watching Top Gear.
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post #70 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

e1618978 posted that several days back. I found it very funny. Especially considering that despite my many travels to the UK, basic knowledge of British history and watching of many British TV shows over 2 decades I have probably learned more about the UK from watching Top Gear.

Very funny. I lived in the UK for many years and the statement is so utterly absurd and preposterous yet I completely get it.
post #71 of 82

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post #72 of 82
It's finally here and just as I predicted- so sad


from the iLounge:


Pros: Apple’s smallest, lightest iPod yet, and first iPod shuffle with remote control functionality. Offers modestly better transfer speeds and audio quality than prior shuffle, replaces prior dock with simpler USB sync and charge cable. Adds VoiceOver feature to let you switch playlists, identify certain tracks, determine battery levels.

Cons: Needlessly and seriously complicates controls by switching to a buttonless body, which cannot be controlled without Apple headphones or not-yet-manufactured third-party proprietary remote control solutions; presently next to useless with car or home stereos. Confusing interface will be hard for many users to totally grasp and use. Poor value as either a 4GB media player or 4GB flash drive. Very slow at file transfers by current iPod standards. Battery power diminished considerably from prior model. Boring design.


For the complete 9 page review:

http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/rev...rd-generation/

I expect to now be attacked for "trolling" and /or "complaining".
post #73 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

It's finally here and just as I predicted- so sad:no

Nice review from iLounge as usual, but what exactly did you predict that wasn't known before.

The only thing you list that I recall you predicting was that the audio was going to be worse quality, while iLounge states that it is better than the 2G Shuffle. Personally, I think using $1,200 headphones with an $80 player is foolish. Fine for testing purposes, but don't kid yourself into thinking that such a setup is the norm and don't try to defend such a pairing in the real world.

I wouldn't say that the battery "diminished considerably" when we are talking about 17% reduction is stated duration, which was "increased considerably" in ral use according to iLounge's testing: "Even with occasional VoiceOver interactions to check their batteries, one ran for 11 hours and 45 minutes, the other 13 hours and 5 minutes, for an average run time of 12 hours and 25 minutes." Not bad for a battery half the size than the previous models and probably not a concern for people buying the product.

I see no cavets here, but them again I requested these updates before the product was announced so I'm not in the small category that were looking for a larger model with pointlessly long battery times and a single line monochrome display.

I'm also in the category that asked for Apple Lossless. Despite the number of people that constantly seem to be saying that iTtunes Store audio sucks because they don't use ALAC at the ridiculously high ~1MB/sec that is about 55% of an AiFF file, this review seems to make no mention of this new (and important) inclusion. I'm curious how long the battery would last running ALAC files; I suspect it would be dramatically decreased. In fact, I'd like to see how different file types last and if the chapters built into my 200MB+ audiobooks will be recognized and if it will remember my place.

Besides this being a very solid product I don't buy extraneous things if that don't serve a particular purpose and I am quite happy with my 2G Shuffle. I think you might get your hopes up by expecting too much from this tech company so you et al. can't help but be disappointed when the impossible and improbably doesn't materialize.
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post #74 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Denton View Post

You missed the point of BeaverbookG4's comment. He wants the ability to skip forward or back a few seconds at a time, rather than one track at a time:

I personally think that this feature is almost completely useless on my 1Gen Shuffle, but apparently not everyone feels the same.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

On a long music selection, let's say over 8 minutes, it's great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Podcasts and audio books too.

On a two hour podcast with technical info or a ten hour book - being able to fast forward and rewind is a virtual necessity - especially if you lose the bookmark part way through, which is easy to do on my G2 Shuffle. And some music cuts are considerably longer than eight minutes.

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post #75 of 82
I think this shuffle is going to have the same fate as the fat nano and pastel colored shuffles. A year from now Apple will take a step back and restore the previous designs with some slight tweaks. Basically, it will be the design that they should have used in the first place. Of course, they won't say they are restoring what they foolishly took away, and they won't do it sooner than a year, because that would be like admitting they made a mistake.

So bookmark this post. About a year from now there will be an updated shuffle. It will still have the controls on the headphones, that's here to stay. But Apple will find a way to put at least some basic controls back on the body of the shuffle. It won't be the classic Apple controller (again, that would be like admitting they made a mistake), but they will come up with something.
post #76 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism;1390210[QUOTE

Nice review from iLounge as usual, but what exactly did you predict that wasn't known before.

You must be joking. Everything that I wrote as well as anybody else who thought this was a sucky update you lambasted as a "complainer". I said a simplified product had been made too complex just for starters as well as many other items that i simply just don't feel like repeating. Perhaps you should go through and re-read my posts and not the ones that were a response to a Kool-aid attack.

Quote:
The only thing you list that I recall you predicting was that the audio was going to be worse quality, while iLounge states that it is better than the 2G Shuffle. Personally, I think using $1,200 headphones with an $80 player is foolish. Fine for testing purposes, but don't kid yourself into thinking that such a setup is the norm and don't try to defend such a pairing in the real world.

Add that to what I just stated above- so far 2 things - keep reading my prior posts. And again you're twisting it- how many times did I say that it remains to be seen until it's tested what the sound is like. I never, ever predicted that the sound would be worsed-. How could I? Why and how would I know that/ You twist again! I repeatedly said that unless the sound quality was restored back to the 1G it would be a failure. And now that it has been concluded that it is in fact worse than the 1G - it fails! How can you keep twisting it to make it seem like it's not?? And FYI- my $15 SONY headphones sound better than Apple's - not $1,200 of which I or others on here just don't own.

Quote:
I wouldn't say that the battery "diminished considerably" when we are talking about 17% reduction is stated duration, which was "increased considerably" in ral use according to iLounge's testing: "Even with occasional VoiceOver interactions to check their batteries, one ran for 11 hours and 45 minutes, the other 13 hours and 5 minutes, for an average run time of 12 hours and 25 minutes." Not bad for a battery half the size than the previous models and probably not a concern for people buying the product.

"Diminished considerably" means exactly that- why do you keep twisting information to your advantage and not let the test speak for itself.

Quote:
I see no cavets here, but them again I requested these updates before the product was announced so I'm not in the small category that were looking for a larger model with pointlessly long battery times and a single line monochrome display.

IF THAT'S NOT A WHINE AND A COMPLAINT- THEN WHAT IS?

Quote:
I'm also in the category that asked for Apple Lossless. Despite the number of people that constantly seem to be saying that iTtunes Store audio sucks because they don't use ALAC at the ridiculously high ~1MB/sec that is about 55% of an AiFF file, this review seems to make no mention of this new (and important) inclusion. I'm curious how long the battery would last running ALAC files; I suspect it would be dramatically decreased. In fact, I'd like to see how different file types last and if the chapters built into my 200MB+ audiobooks will be recognized and if it will remember my place.

Because lossless obviously doesn't matter if your outputting crap, that's why.

Quote:
Besides this being a very solid product I don't buy extraneous things if that don't serve a particular purpose and I am quite happy with my 2G Shuffle. I think you might get your hopes up by expecting too much from this tech company so you et al. can't help but be disappointed when the impossible and improbably doesn't materialize.

NO- I just don't want Apple wasting R&D on ridiculous unnecessary dreck such as this instead of concentrating on more important matters- that's all. Who's been craving to have their song titles spoken to them????WHo needs and wants this gimmick??? Who??? Besides you??? you???
post #77 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

I think this shuffle is going to have the same fate as the fat nano and pastel colored shuffles. A year from now Apple will take a step back and restore the previous designs with some slight tweaks. Basically, it will be the design that they should have used in the first place. Of course, they won't say they are restoring what they foolishly took away, and they won't do it sooner than a year, because that would be like admitting they made a mistake.

So bookmark this post. About a year from now there will be an updated shuffle. It will still have the controls on the headphones, that's here to stay. But Apple will find a way to put at least some basic controls back on the body of the shuffle. It won't be the classic Apple controller (again, that would be like admitting they made a mistake), but they will come up with something.


One step forward - two steps back.
You're probably right. But did we really need all of this effort expended on a shuffle? It's seems a trifle misguided.
post #78 of 82
I think Apple should have used a different name for the new Shuffle, and kept the old one as is, maybe just a 2GB model at $49 or $59.
post #79 of 82
On a lighter note- for those that can't get enough from their iPods:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5169847/for-5-y...s-with-an-ipod
post #80 of 82
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

...read the Apple Manual.

To go back to the beginning of the track or go back to the previous track if you're already at the beginning, you triple click.

To fast rewind, you triple-click and hold.

To skip to the next track, you double click.

To fast forward through the track, you double click and hold.

And to hear the voice you....
And to get your playlists you....
And to get to the next track, or the previous one you...
And.....

Too many combos for something I use occasionally for me. Whatever happened to "intuitive" and "it just works"?

But I guess it would totally appeal to buyers of the Macbook Wheel. (An LoL if you haven't watched it!)

Plus a nerdy looking ...thing... hanging from my neck. Plus every inline headphone or mic control I've ever had has shorted out long before anything else went wrong.

Plus as another poster noted, useless with your stereo, car stereo (my main use), friend's stereo, existing premium buds and for multiple earbud sessions. And IMHO a featureless chunk of metal totally lacking in the oooh and ahhh department.

Next......

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