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post #41 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The problem is that people get too worked up about it in the absence of shown causality.

People also got worked up about smoking: turned out they were right. About the CFC's and the Ozone layer: right again. Lead in gasoline: again. Abestos... I could go on.

In each case the people who showed early concern were labeled alarmist.

If you pick and choose your examples you are not going to reach a logical conclusion. The basic principle when you introduce a new chemical to the environment or a new exposure burden to humans should be precautionary.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Do you drive into the night with your headlights off? Why not?

We are driving into the night of chronic microwave exposure. All studies showing no harm are short-term (a decade or less), when we know that cancer is often a 20 to 30 year disease. Some disturbing trends are just now starting to crop up. It's early days, perhaps they are not that significant.

We don't know, but ignorance is a very poor argument in favor of anything.
post #42 of 76
This is not such a deep mystery people. For those of you paying attention, the recent 3.0 iPhone firmware announced (about time) support for the A2DP Bluetooth profile. (for iPhone 3G, not for iPhone classic). A2DP is high fidelity stereo. (its still lossy compressed though). So of course finally A2DP is here and nobody will want the old POS BT headphone now, good riddance.

Now, how about support for .flac and a TOSLINK output Apple? Who the hell uses .alac anyway, give it up already.
post #43 of 76
Quote:
OK, breaking connection really close is unfortunate, but worrying about it at five feet? That seems to be a workable distance. What is your typical use that can benefit from a longer range?

I have had the phone charging on the passenger seat while having a conversation and slide off to the floor of my van and that would be about five feet.

At my wifes previous job she would have a really long commute and would often work late. It was nice to be able to leave the phone in the living room and be able to continue the conversation in the kitchen and go around the house as needed. And that was with a cheap Plantronics headset. My point is some people use their headsets don't want the weight of the phone hanging on their hip and five feet is really pathetic. Imho.
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post #44 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

People also got worked up about smoking: turned out they were right. About the CFC's and the Ozone layer: right again. Lead in gasoline: again. Abestos... I could go on.

The difference being all of my examples were examples of various forms of EM waves. None of your examples are forms of EM waves. I'm keeping like-for-like rather than to throw in non sequitur examples. And EM waves & their biological effects have been studied for quite some time, I'm skeptical that something like this would suddenly pop up out of nowhere. To make a causal connection, the number of people being exposed isn't terribly critical.

I'm not denying there are effects, there may well be, but in this case, it's too often played like a fear tactic.
post #45 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarenf1 View Post

Add this to the mix that the headset ROYALLY Sucked!!!! I went through eight replacements and non of them them could keep a connection longer than 5 feet away. I even had one break connection while the phone was in my hand. In every other category the headset was a freakin marvel but it would not stay connected. I have no sympathy that it failed miserably. They should have taken it off the shelves a lot sooner. Currently use the Jawbone 2.0 and it works great. Almost annoyingly so when I am in the bottom of my yard and my headset is upstairs in my office and my audio goes to my headset. Beat that Apple!

yes, probably people did nto buy into this as $19 sets could do much better.
post #46 of 76
Hopefully they can come up with better ones. I never liked the current model.
post #47 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

The original iPhone was sold without any contract requirement - of course if you were not already an AT&T customer then you likely got some sort of contract when you switched.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parky View Post


You are incorrect. ALL original iPhones sold through AT&T required that the purchaser sign up to a new 24 month contract with them, regardless of if you were an AT&T customer or not.

Apple and AT&T did NOT sell any phones without contract until very recently.



I think he meant to say was that you could buy the the first iPhone and walk out the store without signing a contract. With the 3G iPhone, you had to sign a contract in store.
post #48 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarenf1 View Post

Add this to the mix that the headset ROYALLY Sucked!!!! I went through eight replacements and non of them them could keep a connection longer than 5 feet away. I even had one break connection while the phone was in my hand. In every other category the headset was a freakin marvel but it would not stay connected. I have no sympathy that it failed miserably. They should have taken it off the shelves a lot sooner. Currently use the Jawbone 2.0 and it works great. Almost annoyingly so when I am in the bottom of my yard and my headset is upstairs in my office and my audio goes to my headset. Beat that Apple!

Funny, but your very reasons are the why I feel the opposite. I leave BT headset in the car. With my old one (can't remember brand) it would always pick up when I was in the house near the garage. Very annoying and embarrassing when clients call and I am fumbling to answer. I prefer the range to be limited. How far do I really need it? I guess for those dorks who want it to have enough range so they can go shopping and leave the phone in the car, they need the long range.

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post #49 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

People also got worked up about smoking: turned out they were right. About the CFC's and the Ozone layer: right again. Lead in gasoline: again. Abestos... I could go on.

In each case the people who showed early concern were labeled alarmist.

If you pick and choose your examples you are not going to reach a logical conclusion. The basic principle when you introduce a new chemical to the environment or a new exposure burden to humans should be precautionary.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Do you drive into the night with your headlights off? Why not?

We are driving into the night of chronic microwave exposure. All studies showing no harm are short-term (a decade or less), when we know that cancer is often a 20 to 30 year disease. Some disturbing trends are just now starting to crop up. It's early days, perhaps they are not that significant.

We don't know, but ignorance is a very poor argument in favor of anything.

This is very much an alarmist kind of point of view though, and alarmists are (historically) almost always wrong.

The examples you mention of lead in gas and asbestos in houses were fairly obviously harmful right from the get go. There was no controversy about lead in gas contributing to pollution for instance, unless you count the false controversy generated by the oil industry. The same goes for most of your examples.

The facts are that many many many studies have been done over the last ten years and not a single one has come up with anything other than a few vague indications that extremely high doses *might* be bad, and might be bad especially in developing brains. So based on the facts as known today there is a tiny, tiny possibility that you should keep your 10 year old daughter from using a cell phone *all* the time (but then there are better reasons than just health for doing that), as a precaution.

When you say "we are driving into the night of chronic microwave exposure" you are talking nonsense and being over-the-top alarmist about it. You can't call something a "chronic" exposure when you don't know (and no one does at this point), what a low or a high exposure position is. it sounds really colourful and scary the way you phrase it but it's not based on any facts.

Scary statements about things not based on facts are the very definition of "alarmist." If people want to be prudent, they can not use one all the time and certainly keep your kids from using one too much, but there is still no proof that even those activities are dangerous in any way.
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post #50 of 76
I don't think Apple will release a replacement jawbone and they're probably glad to hand it over to third parties and get out of that business. I imagine they have kept the bluetooth in a crippled state because the bluetooth software was not yet ready for broader release and Apple provided a limited jawbone for that reason. We'll see a load of new bluetooth devices when 3.0 comes out. Should be interesting.

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post #51 of 76
I wonder if the Apple headset is undergoing a design change

I learned early on, after plunking down the premium price for the headset, that it refused to stay in my ear or wouldn't stay at the correct angle (pointed toward my mouth) when wearing. I constantly had to twist the stem back to the proper direction. Several times the headset fell out in a dark environment, necessitating a search on all fours to find the headset, using my iPhone as a flashlight.

If there were a design that allowed for different size/shape ear adapters (like the Jawbone I eventually bought and use frequently) I'd resume use of the Apple Bluetooth headset. Otherwise, I guess I should have long ago put the headset up for sale on eBay.
post #52 of 76
When other companies discontinue products, they are considered massive failures and gloated upon. But when Apple discontinues products such as the G4 Cube, Firewire iSight, iPod Hi-fi or Xserve RAID, it is rationalized as Apple's vision and innovation. No matter what Apple does, it is never wrong.
post #53 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

I agree. I have spent a decent amount of time in Japan the last two years and NOT ONCE did I see a bluetooth headset for a keitai (cell phone). Texting / email is much more common on phones in Japan, but no matter the reason it is wonderful to see people without those incredibly annoying things stuck in their ears all day long. IMO these things are the height of hubris, unless they are used when driving.

I would rather listen to the stereo than to have a bluetooth ear piece interfere with my music enjoyment while driving. That's why I use a SuperTooth 3 portable speakerphone by BluAnt. Fully compatible with the iPhone, it downloads the address book and the caller ID info is announced by name (or number if not in the address book). The best part, it automatically turns off when out of range, and turns back on by the vibration of the car door closing when you return. It is also on a magnetic visor clip for easy removal to charge in the house. It is one of the few speakerphones that include both a DC and AC charger.
post #54 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

The original iPhone was sold without any contract requirement - of course if you were not already an AT&T customer then you likely got some sort of contract when you switched.

As for "hubris" mentioned in one of the posts - I do not consider using a bluetooth earpiece to be a "look at me and how important I am" kind of thing - but something more along the lines of either "look at me I am tied to my work even when not at my desk - wish I had some free time to just enjoy life" or mostly just for safety reasons - much harder to perform necessary tasks such as operating a motor vehicle with on arm stuck to the side of your head if you do not have a headset. So it is a double edge sword type of deal - it is nice that I have the flexibility to not be tied to my desk all day - but then I have to be available when the customers call.

The original iPhone was sold with the same AT&T two year contract. When you purchased the iPhone, you had to activate a two year requirement with AT&T. This was done at home with iTunes. Of course people figured out how to unlock it to bypass that requirement, but the original was still sold for use with a contract.

A bluetooth speakerphone is much nicer to use in the car instead of the earpiece. Back in the day before cellphones, people would leave a message and wait for a return call. People still survived without a cellphone permanently attached to their head.
post #55 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by mclarenf1 View Post

Add this to the mix that the headset ROYALLY Sucked!!!! I went through eight replacements and non of them them could keep a connection longer than 5 feet away. I even had one break connection while the phone was in my hand. In every other category the headset was a freakin marvel but it would not stay connected. I have no sympathy that it failed miserably. They should have taken it off the shelves a lot sooner. Currently use the Jawbone 2.0 and it works great. Almost annoyingly so when I am in the bottom of my yard and my headset is upstairs in my office and my audio goes to my headset. Beat that Apple!

I believe you are correct. I think Apple's decision to drop it will most likely be due to poor performance. There are already many other alternatives for those that really want the earpiece. Apple doesn't need one.
post #56 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post



Or wearing them in the car in order to drive more responsibly so as not to cause an accident, or even to keep such a device away from one's head (we still don't know the full risks.

Or using a bluetooth speakerphone in the car instead of an earpiece. Earpieces are not the only option. Of course the safest driving is done when you don't even use the phone. A hands-free phone call is still a major distraction while driving.
post #57 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetzel1517 View Post

I think that's the issue everyone has with them. I don't think the critics of headsets here are going after people who use them selectively, particularly those who only use them in the car (though studies have shown there's little safety benefit there, as your brain is distracted the same way you would be if you were holding the phone to your head).

It sounds like we can all agree that people who wear those things 24/7 are self-important jackasses who, upon meeting them, immediately send the message "you are not as important as the phone call I might get at any second. In fact, you're so unimportant that I can't afford to miss that call at all, and that call is so critical that I'm willing to make myself look like a member of the Borg to make sure I don't miss it."

It is even better when the self-important jackasses think they are so important that they continue their conversations in the BATHROOM and then FLUSH during their phone call! Just proves how stupid these earpiece idiots are! I am sure the people on the other end lose all respect when they are forced to listen to them do a number 1 or a number 2 and then flush!
post #58 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

The difference being all of my examples were examples of various forms of EM waves.

UV, X rays, and gamma rays are all forms of EM that have proven harmful.

Microwaves are used for cooking, so while they are not ionizing, they clearly interact with tissue.
post #59 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

There was a time not long ago when walking around talking into a cell phone made you look like a self-important fool. Today it's a sight so common that we no longer see it that way.

Having both hands free is useful, and not only when driving. Unless you spend a lot of time on the phone, there is no need to have the thing in your ear all day. You can just use it when you use it.

Also, Quadra is right. Radiation from a bluetooth headset is about 2% of what the phone emits. We don't know yet what the long term effects are of this exposure, but lack of knowledge should inspire caution, not carelessness. I'd say a 98% reduction in exposure is a good deal.

As you said, no need to have it in your ear all day. They still look like a self-important fool when they do, and most do. Quadra lost all credibility in his later post in which he admitted, "there is no proof." If cell phones emitted high enough of radiation to cause cancer, they wouldn't be anywhere near your body. The earpiece isn't saving you when the phone is on your hip or in your pocket emitting the radiation, to which there may be no conclusive evidence.
post #60 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by KBeat View Post

I find the headset an absolute must (it's required by law in CA) when I'm driving.

It is a law, but I have yet to see someone get pulled over for the use of the phone. I still see people driving all over Los Angeles with the phone against their head. A bluetooth speakerphone works better in the car.
post #61 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by sapporobabyrtrns View Post

Ever hear of hands free driving? Typical.....

Ever hear of a Bluetooth Speakerphone? Or not using the phone at all while driving?
post #62 of 76
The one I bought was total junk. The furthest I could have the phone without dropping the connection was in my hand. Even then I had to stand still. There are many products Apple makes well......this was not one of them.

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post #63 of 76
Per iLounge, here is their review:

Pros: minimalist earpiece lets you hear and talk on phone voice calls or PC/Mac voice chats without any wires. Designed specifically for the iPhone, easy pairing, and on-iPhone battery monitoring. Includes travel charging cable and special charging/synchronization dock for itself and iPhone. Acceptable talk time on rechargeable battery.

Cons: Sound quality and battery life are nothing special for the relatively high price, and static-free range is only okay; small earbud without ear hook may not be stable or secure in your ear. Though it includes nice dock, lacks advanced ambient noise filtering or wall charger included in top competitors priced at similar or lower levels.

Sounds like the cons outweigh the pros. Don't know how that ended up with a B review. I think most found third-party alternatives to be better in quality. Apple doesn't need to make Bluetooth accessories when the third-parties have it covered. Explains why Apple cut back on iPod accessories.
post #64 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by halhiker View Post

I think Apple has replaced far more of these than it has sold. I am personally on my third one and I just hope if it gives out it's before my AppleCare expires.

My first one had WAY too much static. My second lost 75% of its volume for no reason. This one is OK so far but I've only had it about a month.

The fit was also an issue but I ordered an earhook from Motorola and it holds it in place when I'm driving, which is the only time I wear it. I've also had issues with the range. If I wear it in my left ear and put the phone in my right pocket, it loses the connection. I need to keep both phone and earpiece on the same side.

I'm actually surprised they didn't drop this earlier because it's not up to the standards one expects from Apple.

I cant understand how they ot away with this particular bit of kit... I am an apple devote but this piece of gear never worked... i even changed phones only to find that it never could connect with the blue tooth earpiece. Interestingly the thing does connect with my nokia phone...go figure that one... anyway in truth hands free phoning in a car is dangerous so i just put the thing aside and continue to love all things Apple
post #65 of 76
With the 3.0 update I'll be able to plug the left earpiece into my Plantronics 855, it'll be interesting to hear how it stacks up vs wired headphone's.

I've been using cellphone's fairly heavily for 16 years now, I haven't noticed any ill effects.

An interesting experiment would be to make a Bluetooth headset disguised as a cellphone, as a control and a real cellphone that is indistinguishible from it, get a group of people to make a one hour call on them then answer a questionaire on percieved health effects.

You could hide the true nature of the test by saying you are testing for something else.

The results would be interesting to say the least.
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post #66 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by hillstones View Post

It is even better when the self-important jackasses think they are so important that they continue their conversations in the BATHROOM and then FLUSH during their phone call! Just proves how stupid these earpiece idiots are! I am sure the people on the other end lose all respect when they are forced to listen to them do a number 1 or a number 2 and then flush!

Do you really believe these people talk on cell phones because it makes them feel more important? And you feel people feel even more important if they talk in the bathroom? And come on, how else would important people talk in the bathroom, without a earpiece? How would they unzip or wash their hands?
post #67 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

perminently discontinued to the dismay of some costomers.

What happened to spellcheck?
post #68 of 76
...the iPhone BT headset discontinued. It wasn't really a game changer.

Yes, people who have those blinking blue headsets in their ear look dorkish. And, yes, I was one of those dorks, though I always carried my headset in my pocket, until I needed it. My big beef is that they are so easy to lose if they aren't in your ear.

I had a Plantronics Voyager, after about 5 others which were all garbage. The Voyager was the first good BT headset I had. Too big though.

I recently got another Plantronics Voyager 815, which is better because you no longer have that ear loop. It hangs on a lanyard so you don't need to keep it in your ear, and you don't need to stuff it in your pocket. Best one yet, and you don't look nearly the dork when using.
post #69 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanShu View Post

What happened to spellcheck?

I don't think you need to know how to spell to work at AppleInsider. It seems to be a common practice in their articles. They apparently don't have any proofreaders either. Ruins their credibility when they publish such a poorly written article.
post #70 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

When other companies discontinue products, they are considered massive failures and gloated upon. But when Apple discontinues products such as the G4 Cube, Firewire iSight, iPod Hi-fi or Xserve RAID, it is rationalized as Apple's vision and innovation. No matter what Apple does, it is never wrong.

Yes, the cult is led by the 19 year old perfect master...

We should be glad Android is coming or Apple would force even more proprietary standards on us and "innovate" at an even more glacial pace. Google's really putting a blowtorch to their arse.
post #71 of 76
Haven't you all heard that these headphones are being replaced with an upgrade for the new June iPhone. The new iPhone will have no controls on it; all the controls will be on the headphone set. The new iPhone will also talk to you. The 3G shuffle was just the beginning.
post #72 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by KenC View Post

My big beef is that they are so easy to lose if they aren't in your ear.

Lose, break, or not be able to get to in time to receive an incoming call. I've broken too many bt headsets carrying them to consider not wearing them.

Perhaps there are some that think wearing a headset is dorkish, but then, there are those who walk around with tattoo riddled bodies, metal studded body parts, sporting a dirty, torn wife beater type of fashion sense.

So, on a scale of 1 to 10, wearing a headset doesn't even count towards making someone stand out in a crowd. I'm not sure why it bothers anyone, but characterizing those that wear a headset as "self-important" sure seems to me to convey a sense of inferiority... probably deservedly so.
post #73 of 76
Wearing a helmet made of aluminum foil has dramatically improved my iPhone BT reception, with the added benefit of boosting my importance, making me highly recognizable as one of those significant people with whom other people must stay in constant contact. Moreover, the additional radiation appears to have given my face a nice tan. Now if you'll excuse me, I have a doctor's appointment to see about the peculiar lumps and boils that have erupted along my jawbone.

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post #74 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alonso Perez View Post

People also got worked up about smoking: turned out they were right. About the CFC's and the Ozone layer: right again. Lead in gasoline: again. Abestos... I could go on.

In each case the people who showed early concern were labeled alarmist.

If you pick and choose your examples you are not going to reach a logical conclusion. The basic principle when you introduce a new chemical to the environment or a new exposure burden to humans should be precautionary.

Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Do you drive into the night with your headlights off? Why not?

We are driving into the night of chronic microwave exposure. All studies showing no harm are short-term (a decade or less), when we know that cancer is often a 20 to 30 year disease. Some disturbing trends are just now starting to crop up. It's early days, perhaps they are not that significant.

We don't know, but ignorance is a very poor argument in favor of anything.

I seem to recall the biggest fuss in the US about removing lead in gasoline was more a matter of timing. It had to go first and foremost because it would poison the catalytic converters but engine manufacturers had to scramble to figure a reliable redesign to compensate for the removed lead. And what kind of substitute could you use on older existing engines.
Asbestos was bad and figured to be bad pretty quickly. In some products, however, the replacement was made dangerous in other ways. As a matter of fact I argue that the hysteria over asbestos has had some very negative effects and caused some people and regulatory agency's to do some very stupid things. Early on many people removed it themselves or had people remove asbestos insulation improperly and exposing themselves to far more then had they let it lay. As a matter of fact if its not crumbling or disintegrating often times it is actually better to leave it. Especially if it is not going to be disturbed you can leave it or cover over it. As an example you can cover over asbestos sheeting with new insulation and siding and will save money by not removing it and help the environment by not releasing those microfibers into the environment and exposing countless people to them.
Dupont who jumped on the cfc bandwagon very early on was a big supporter about removing Freon (R-12 and r-24) from the market. What we in the heating and cooling business found funny and a bit suspicious was that there patents on Freon were expiring and that they had new refrigerant ready to go but needed a reason for people to switch. See at the time the new refrigerants were considered slightly more environmentally friendly but were far more inefficient (25-35 percent) and manufactures were reluctant to use them because they required new designs and the development of new material for hoses and such that the knew stuff would not destroy.
I don't think any of those things compare to the scare of the cellphone radiation. As others have pointed out you are constantly bombarded by radio waves and radiation from your monitor and Electromagnetic fields from a multitude of sources. I would also point out all those people in the 50's and 60's that sat right in front of those old tubed tv's that put out a lot of radiation. Somehow they managed to survive countless hours of exposure from those old radiation kings. But using a little common sense regarding cellphones and cordless phones would probably be a smart thing. I think that is notion many people should apply in there lives. Eating at McDonalds occasionally is OK eating three meals a day there not so much. Etc, etc I think you get the idea.
I have been using a cellphone on a daily basis since 1989. I had to it was required as part of my job. The first phone I used was this big bag phone that had a full three watts of power versus .5 watt most handhelds output now. If using a cellphone causes tumors or cancers then unfortunately I will be finding out soon.
I also wonder if using a laptop in my lap for so many years helped to contribute to son's autisism. Has anyone measured how much radiation a laptop puts out?
Just some thoughts.
Jim
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post #75 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

... No matter what Apple does, it is never wrong.

Well, I like apple a LOT but i think that's a little extreme.
post #76 of 76
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar View Post

When other companies discontinue products, they are considered massive failures and gloated upon. But when Apple discontinues products such as the G4 Cube, Firewire iSight, iPod Hi-fi or Xserve RAID, it is rationalized as Apple's vision and innovation. No matter what Apple does, it is never wrong.


This is because those other companies otherwise lack Apple's vision to begin with.

When Joe Blow pulls off to the side in the Tour de France, it's probably because he's exhausted and has had enough. When Lance Armstrong pulls over it's probably to take a leak or snap a few photos.

We give Apple the benefit of the doubt because they're NOT Dell. Or Gateway. Or xyz company. Apple gives you reason to believe that discontinued products are either the springboards for something better that's just around the corner or it's just about trimming the fat.

And why the hell should anyone care about being nice and fair to other companies?? It's not a balanced situation; there is no need to feign some kind of fake objectivity in order to appear more diplomatic. That's quite insincere. This whole fucking industry is half-asleep anyway. Without Apple we'd still be in the Dark Ages of computing. And the fact is, there is only ONE Apple. They're a unique phenomenon. I'm certainly inclined to give the best and brightest the benefit of the doubt until I'm given reason to do otherwise.
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