Microsoft's anti-Mac pricing campaign takes to the web - Page 7

Whatever the last 4 years is called, it wasn't real growth, at best just catching up to losses to hold the 25m number consistent over the long term.


As long as the 25 million number is holding, increased Mac sales can only mean new customers are replacing defections and existing users and buying more frequently.

Don't get too hung up on the 25m number. These numbers (even whan announced by Apple) are a little vague. For example... how long have we been hearing that there are a billion PCs out there. Does that figure ever change?

Yes the last 4 years was REAL growth. Growth in sales which (however way you calculate it) must equate to a change in the user base.

Last 4 years of Mac sales = 28.1 million
Prior 4 years of Mac sales = 12.9 million

Have you noticed all these nice polite new members who are continuously hammering the M$ spin over and over. Normal trolls get nasty, these polite guys are in suits in Redmond lol. My bet is many of them after a few weeks of this will be dying to try a Mac to see why we love them so much lol

server glitch I got a duplicate post!

There's no credible way to count all the PCs in the world. 25 million is a lot more specific and manageable than a worldwide guesstimate. Unless Apple has something more recent and accurate, that remains the best estimate anybody, including Apple, has.

Server is behaving badly so I hope my post goes through without duplication.

Some personal but relevant data:

Wife and I have a two person, at home, graphic arts business. Mac users since 1988. Keep every mac AT LEAST 4 years. NEVER, EVER had one die. Replaced HDs, RAM, fans, etc, but each computer has been sold or given away after it's served its time.

Ever since ebay, I get used mac desktop towers and Apple Cinema displays. I can't believe how often people upgrade and get rid of perfectly good computers! Great stuff and not too expensive. I still get over 4 years out of each computer and the macs make us money in our business and we never have to call the geeks to fix them. That's real world stuff, not theory.

The average computer user is MUCH better served by a Mac than a windows computer. Every family member or friend I have ever converted has thanked me over and over. Against my advice, one friend converted from mac to windows and the tears continue. Now I have my 17-year old nephew on a mac and he is converting his dad as well. Funny...his dad used to think that macs were all hype but now he sees the light. MS should be worried about their long-term prospects.

The average user CANNOT keep windows computer running trouble-free. EVERYTHING gets messed up due to spyware and malevolent parasites and there is no way to keep them out without dedicating lots of time to the problem. By comparison, I run our macs trouble-free with no virus protection whatsoever--just basic DOs and DONT's regarding security and passwords.

If you are techie and you want this or that, fine. Run what you like but save your non-techie friends from the horror that is windows. The windows experience is dehumanizing for the average computer user.

Well then by saying that you're admitting that the MacBook is overpriced if there is that much gross profit.

No, it isn't. It's saying that they don't' wish to compete in a market that makes hardly any money despite the unit sales which means that Apple would have to lower quality or have to install a bunch of crapware from 3rd-parties in order to turn a profit. Both of these options would weaken the public image of the Apple and Mac branding which would hurt Apple tremendously in the long run.

Your "that much gross profit" is comparing one machine which has a process costing $300 (the cost of most netbooks) with one that has $20 processor. And that is just one component. It's disingenuous, even for you, to think that any Mac is over priced comapred to a netbook without even mentioning the completely different HW being used or the free to old OS being used.

Trolls come in all shapes and sizes.

I actually don't think that this particular (numbers) conversation is troll driven. There are plenty of Apple fans who are willing to ignore facts and stats to try and confirm their own agenda.

Basically it goes like this:

I don't like a particular Apple product.
Apple product has missing features.
Apple product is too expensive.
Apple doesn't make the product I want.

Add to that:

.... and all MY FRIENDS agree

ergo:

This Apple product will never sell
This is another "cube"
Apple have taken their eye off the ball
Apple are only interested in iPods
Apple have shot themselves in the foot
They are just sooooo greedy
Bill Gates gives his money to charity
Steve Jobs ate my hampster

and

....all MY FRIENDS agree


Anyone who thinks that Apple's Mac business is just treading water should take another look at the title of this thread.

I would think if you just want to do basic stuff with a machine, you'd do best getting a pc with linux, like a Dell inspiron Ubuntu or a System76, or a locally bought desktop. But of course microsoft would never want you to think about that.

After all, with linux, you get a wide variety of free software, a free OS, great online support, a wonderful community, low system requirements, and a highly secure, intuitive, cohesive system.

Really? Go download the past 10 years of quarterly 10-Q reports for Apple. Add up the sales.

Your whole reasoning is wack- as if Apple would ever allow "a bunch of crapware" on their netbook or tablet.
And BTW - his reasoning was insinuating that an Apple netbook wasn't needed because MacBooks make way to much profit-meaning it's overpriced and Apple can ride those profits alone. Again you distort the reason why I respond. I'm not making that claim- he was.
Many here want a small Apple laptop/netbook/tablet- all except you. Therefore we are all wrong according to your views. And who's disingenuous? HA!

The percentage of people who would feel comfortable buying a computer with Linux for home use is pretty small. Outside of geeks how many are we really talking about? Eventually netbooks will become appliance-like enough that people don't care so much what's on there, but we're not quite there yet. And even if we are, the perception is not there.

A value proposition that wasn't mentioned to Lauren: Can she go back to Best Buy or wherever she was and have an HP employee work on her laptop? Is there some brand other than Apple that has that kind of presence? For those of you outside the US I know Apple Stores are still few and far between, but at least it seems like they're working on that.

Meaning what? If you have access to data more credible than Apple's own claimed 25 million active userbase, please share.

They are gearing up for Windows 7, they are having to play nice for their computer makers.

I think this is a great point. Some people like to fool around, install stuff, reinstall stuff, fix stuff ... but then non-technical users go to these "experts" for buying advice ... and end up with much more trouble than they needed.

Sorry bout that.

I was sleeping, woke up from a nightmare, got online with the iPhone (terrible to post with), read that comment about the poster personally attacking someone and took it to heart - my bad for spewing the same way. I was no better.

I actually enjoy Apple products, believe their software to be developed in a way that makes sense, e.g., in iWork, you want to move a photo or resize, you do it, in Word you try that and the text disappears off the screen. Of course, this is a elementary example, but you get my point.

I think the PRO part of me is a bit peeved as we have been shut out for so long as Apple dropped .MAC, dropped computers from their name, and catered more to consumer iPhone user than developing Logic, Final Cut. However this is what the market dictates, still, it would be nice to see a reasonable priced, yet NON CRIPPLED hardware system. As others have said, would it kill them to make a mid range 4/8 core system with firewire, no screen, and YOUR CHOICE of graphics?

I think the next big thing BEFORE this summer is the NETBOOK. It won't be $99 but would like something smaller than an air, bigger than an iPhone, lighter than a macbook with option for firewire, target mode and nvidia GPU.

My apologies.

Exactly, MS's kinda tying their own noose a bit. By going after Apple, which is bad in the first place, and making this into a price war, they are effectively leading companies like Dell into non-existence. Dell is close to extinction and now MS is pushing cheap, close to profitless hardware as the selling point. I'm sure Michael Dell is thrilled. and they just launched Adamo too. Ouch.

It's funny how MS's sights are now set on Macs, it was Linux last year. I think companies like Dell and HP need to take back their hardware and polish Linux into a crown jewel it so desperately wants to be. I like Linux but it tries to mimic Windows too much. If Dell Did a touch screen Linux...hmmmm, I think I'm going to call up Michael Dell....

Add up the total sales over the past 10 years. It's a non-linear set of equations. You work out the non-linear differential equations for the closest approximation on your own. It's quite clear you've got a fixation on it.

While I agree some of the software that comes with a Macintosh could do with some improvement it is not quite as bad as you make it to be.

The only reason you need things like Perian and Flip4Mac is the AVI video format is a total joke and the average windows user just throws in whatever codec he happens to have. I have found the players in both the Mac and WIndows OSes to far inferior to VLC and only use them when the DVD can't be for some reason read by VLC.

I have found Windows Preview to be a joke even compared to MacOS Preview and GraphicConverter kicks both to the pavement and then down the street. Sure it is a US $35 shareware program but it can handle nearly EVERY image format out there and is so powerful in other areas that it is often called "the poor man's photoshop"

As for converting audio files there is PlayerPRO 5.9 and AudioFinder 4.8.4 which can also play anything reasonable out there.

Agreed.

Apple is not after aimless marketshare - it's after the premium end of the market, an area in which it's doing extremely well. Apple makes a premium product and prices it accordingly. Apple is targeting people with a higher level of disposable income. This segment certainly exists, but naturally, the pyramid is narrower at the top.

Those who can afford to spend several thousand on tech are not going to find ways to save and cut corners. They're looking for lasting value and a best-of-breed product. And hence, Apple's margins. The last thing Apple needs to do is promote low price-points and cheapen their image. If the price of an MBP suddenly dropped $600 I'd be wondering what's wrong with the product. Cheapen your product like MS is doing and has been doing, and . . . it's no longer coveted. Less desirable. No mystique. No longer special. An average laptop in a tech store with a sticker on it, running Windows. Nothing can be more bottom-of-the barrel. What is easily attainable is less appealing. Add to that the fact that Windows in and of itself is not very appealing to begin with, and what you've got is an image that not many would want to associate with.

All of this newfound angst over Apple pricing is coming (mostly) from those who have, over the past year, been dropped to a lower income bracket thanks to economic troubles, and no can no longer afford xyz Apple product. Their reasoning (all of a sudden) is that since everyone else is lowering their prices, Apple should as well. As if it's unfair that Apple "thinks" (ugh, I hate anthropomorphising companies) it's "too good" to lower prices. Time will tell, but the premium end of the market is definitely there. I expect Apple's margins to hold, and to help them ride through this downturn even if revenue won't be as stellar as in the past.

Apple needs (and I expect it to) innovate its way out of this recession, not price their way out of it.

This line cracks me up.

With respect to the internet community ... I think it is coming from a group of paid M$ staff who have been told to infiltrate every Apple blog they can and spin the new M$ attack program into action. These trolls are far too consistent and avoid any direct confrontation unlike the trolls we are familiar with.

Also I don't believe too many Mac users would go back to Windows or switch to it due to an economic down turn in their lives, they'd just keep using the Mac they already have (they keep on going). The last thing a Mac person who is already depressed would want is Windows!

LOL, convincing isn't it?

Apple already figured it out. It's others discounting their numbers, not me.

Microsoft should not have a problem convincing the brain dead that they know what's best.

I do like my MBP and OSX. But, after reading most of the posts, wanted to point a few facts for a balanced !

Microsoft is a software company. Pity that they are advertising cheap hardware as their main strength!

Please see the ad where Mac boasts of his snap in power adaptor and the fact that PC guy is in a wheelchair with broken leg and arm.

Vista is so costly but OSX is not!

Consider the every year release of OSX and their cumulative cost.

Need to buy Anti-virus for Windows!

Apple strongly recommends to use anti-virus for its OS as well! OSX is not more secure than Vista is. It is much easier to break OSX!! As read recently in an interview (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...hack,2254.html), OSX is safer because no one bothers to write malware/virus for OSX.

Basic Features Missing!

You can drag a file to move it in OSX but you cannot cut and paste files! Forwarding the contact details through SMS/Bluetooth is a function available in even basic phones now-a-days but it is not available in iPhone. (Before someone points that it can be done in iPhone 3.0, the point is features available in the competing products for years are not available in Apple products!) All decent phones give lotus notes syncing for contacts/emails but the "premium" iPhone does not give you that facility!

Stability!

Please take stock on the patches released by Apple for most of its products since last 18 months! And the problems Apple faced over the MobileMe in the initial days!

I can go on but need to stop in the interest of time. Before someone reacts to this post negatively, please read the first line again!

I still don't understand the point you are making. Apple makes both hardware and software and so is able to make comparisons. Microsoft cannot make the same claims.


It is true that OSX is updated more often than Windows, but it is not every year. It is nearer once every two years. Also it is strange to be penalised for providing customers with newer software. It is not essential for users to buy every new release. I usually skip every other release.


It's easy to find a pwn2own where OSX won over Windows too. Although you are absolutely right about antivirus software. OSX doesn't get hit so much because it draws less interest from hackers.


You can copy and paste, but there is no cut. I agree this is annoying and should be in OS X.


I'm not going to point out about iPhone 3.0, I am going to point out the argument is meainingless. We are talking about Apple Macs here, not the iPhone. Where's the comparison with Windows Mobile? It has nothing to do with this conversation.


Again, you need something to compare on the Windows side. Stock patches? Who cares when they are delivered to your machine and you update without ever knowing anything was ever wrong.

No... No... Please.... Don't stop! We want more.