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Microsoft's anti-Mac pricing campaign takes to the web - Page 3

post #81 of 269
Do what I did throw it in the trash and get a Mac or another Mac? Life is too short for this kind of aggravation.

I JUST SPENT THE ENTIRE DAY TODAY
RE-IMAGING MY WINDOWS XP LAPTOP
BECAUSE OF A SOFTWARE PROBLEM.

(9 hours later, I'm still not done)

For the love of God, WHY??? WHY????

[/CENTER][/QUOTE]
post #82 of 269
If someone gave you 15 grand and told you to buy a car and you could keep whatever was left over, you'd probably buy a Kia and not a BMW. Small minds develop small ideas. D'oh.
post #83 of 269
Wow. The number of idiots and laughably stupid posts in this article is astounding. Almost makes me ashamed to be a Mac user. People calling the Xbox 360 a piece of shit? How is this even remotely related to the article? I have a MacBook aluminum and a 360 and it's a great console just like the MacBook is a great laptop; stop being a brainwashed idiot.

This marketing campaign seemed like a good idea but IMO is a huge backfire for MS. Why they chose to project a cheap, budget image with crappy HP laptops when they could've shown off Sony VAIOs and ThinkPads, I just can't understand.
post #84 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamisen.sc View Post

Yeah if you don't buy a mac you save enough to get a piece of shit computer, piece of shit mp3 player and piece of shit gaming console.

Looks like the Mac gave you a piece of shit brain then.
post #85 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcolley View Post

Microsoft Office is the biggest piece of junk on the planet.... Let's look at the windoze OS. WIN 95 = junk, WIN 98 = junk, WIN Me = junk, WIN XP = almost useful, WIN VISTA = Junk, ...

Oh, the quality time I spent fixing WIN Me, I can't even describe.

Office v.X crashed occasionally (it was the only thing that crashed on my Powerbook, save for the rare Safari crash).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dcolley View Post

Do what I did throw it in the trash and get a Mac or another Mac? Life is too short for this kind of aggravation.

Nod.

One thing however I'd like Apple to fix in Mac OS X is the inverse color scheme (I like setting my fonts white and background black). On Windows it works mostly but on Mac OS X even the graphics are negative-inversed.
post #86 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Ha, Microsoft's ad is perfect for the New York Times crowd. Give them half the story and skew the rest of the facts...

Interesting perspective...so how you doing these days Mr Limbaugh?
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #87 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcolley View Post

Do what I did throw it in the trash and get a Mac or another Mac? Life is too short for this kind of aggravation.

I JUST SPENT THE ENTIRE DAY TODAY
RE-IMAGING MY WINDOWS XP LAPTOP
BECAUSE OF A SOFTWARE PROBLEM.

(9 hours later, I'm still not done)

For the love of God, WHY??? WHY????

[/CENTER]

[/QUOTE]

yea...windows xp, imagine that, an 8 year old windows release is unstable...in other news, my OSX 10.1 is flakey and cant run the new safari WAAAA WAAAA WAAAA...

Run Vista, post SP1, it is rock solid, and more secure than XP..

I am not a windows fanboy, but sheesh, you are using a 9 year old windows version.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #88 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

People pay full retail for a copy of Windows to run on their Mac. But Microsoft is telling them not to buy a machine that runs Windows.

There are a lot of analogies here - and the behavior would look strange. Like Exxon telling me to buy a Mazda or Time Warner telling me to buy a Samsung television.

Microsoft makes Office for Mac and then tells people not to buy a Mac? The whole message is confused.

That said, MS has resorted to mud slinging. Will it work with a certain audience? Sure. Did Apple do it first? I guess. But it doesn't look so good when you have the giant market share. It looks kind of weird, desperate, paranoid and misguided.

It is all about the upgrade path. If you use a mac with bootcamp, it is in your best interest to find mac alternatives to windows tools so you can avoid upgrading to windows 7, 8, 9 or whatever comes next. If they lose the dependancy that millions of Mac users have on windows, they lose all those future OS sales...and if it really dwindles 5 years out, whats to stop apple from deprecating bootcamp...

if you buy a "pc" laptop, you are locked into windows, and thus, the upgrade treadmill, unless you are the 1% that runs Linux or Hack-n'-tosh

As to Office for the mac, if I were Mr Balmer, I would get out of that business the minute the DOJ blinks... Office:Mac 2008 is the single worst piece of computer software in the history of commercial software. It is an embarrassment even to MS, and that is saying something.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #89 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post

With Macs, you have to throw the computer away and get a brand new one at full price, unless the Mac is one of the extremely overpriced "Pro" models.

They cost more up front, and they don't last as long. It's unfortunate that OS X can't legally run on anything else.

Just because something costs a lot of money doesn't mean it's overpriced. I want you go to price dual Xeon systems and then tell me if the Mac Pro is actually overpriced, meaning it costs more than it's worth.

EULAs cannot be enforced, therefore circumventing them is not "illegal." I find it amazing that you are on the internet, and that you infinite information available to you, but you continue to hold these ignorant, factually wrong opinions.
post #90 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor View Post

Microsoft = McDonald's
Apple = Ruth's Chris Steak House

"For the same price as an 8 oz. top sirloin, you can get a Big Mac and still have money left over to buy a fake chocolate milkshake, a "High School the Musical 3" DVD at WalMart and a 53 Snugglies for your family!!"

Microsoft = McDonalds
Apple = McDonalds with shiny wrappers and aluminum bags

Macs are PC's. I know you'd like to think you have something special when you buy mac but it's the same PC hardware that everyone else has a cheaper price.
I'm not arguing that they aren't built well with nice enclosures and materials, on the outside, but they aren't anything special.

Function > form
And when I can get as good PC hardware or better for less money I call that a win. I can still install OSX on it anyways. Though i'm now running Windows 7 and can't see any reason to boot into OSX any more.
post #91 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maury Markowitz View Post

Here's the new campaign in a nutshell: "Microsoft, we sell cheap crap!"

Good luck with that.

Let's be objective for a moment.
Assuming using either are a subjective matter, personal preference.
Is it really true that PC is cheaper than Mac if we do side by side comparison.
I mean the amount of memory, CPU speed, quality of screen, overall performance of the software running on the that hardware.

I'd like to see the fact. And I bet everyone else too.
By doing so, there won't be any more misleading ad or silly discussion that going nowhere.
post #92 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldMacGuy View Post

If someone gave you 15 grand and told you to buy a car and you could keep whatever was left over, you'd probably buy a Kia and not a BMW. Small minds develop small ideas. D'oh.

Perhaps then you can look into some kind of mind-enlargement therapy. A car at it's most minimal gets you from point-A to point-B. It gets you to work and if it is reliable enough (not a Kia, a good Honda or Toyota would be better), it will help you keep your job to pay the bills. From that viewpoint, I would agree with you.

Computers though for many people GENERATE revenue. Before purchasing my first Mac, I spent countless hours every few months to recover my PC since it was quicker than determining what rogue virus, spyware, trojan, corruption, rainy day, whatever was causing the problem. Had I been able to do my actual job and bill by the hour (software design), I would have been able to purchase a new machine over, and over again. I lost so much billable time due to the instabilities that the Wintel model has.

My Mac on the other hand has had ZERO problems. No crashes, no freezing. I focus on doing my job and now, I earn more money because of it. We don't all fall into your narrow perspective of how to save money. For many people money well spent is far more preferable than saving money badly. Time invested by people carries a cost as well. If not stress, frustration, or some other personal reason, then loss productivity will definitely make the top of the list.

Now, don't get me wrong. My Mac runs XP using VMware. That setup has been so much more dependable for me than a dedicated machine. I can restore an entire WinXP image in minutes without ever leaving my MAC OSX system. I'm back in business and life is good. For some strange reason though, Windows running on my Mac has had far fewer problems than any of the other dedicated machines I've had in the past.

I realize money is tight for everyone. It certainly is for me. However, I would gladly spend the extra money knowing I'm getting more value for my dollar than to save a few bucks only to spend the savings on glass and hair-implants from throwing my Wintel machine out the window and pulling my hair out.

Whatever the case, had someone given me $15k to buy a car, I would probably buy a nice motorcycle (better gas mileage and time-saved in traffic) for half the price of a Kia and use the rest to buy a Mac Pro. The remaining half would then go for more AAPL.
post #93 of 269
The world is moving on and they have their head up on the top floor of some executive suite and never enter a Starbucks or any other business on the ground floor.

Running down your competitor means you have nothing good to say about your own product. That is absolutely deadly.

Glad I'm not on the top floor in Redmond when the results come in and the chairs start flying again.
post #94 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoC View Post

Running down your competitor means you have nothing good to say about your own product. That is absolutely deadly.

You mean like what apple has been doing for the last few years?
post #95 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Same parts, made in the same factories, only real differences are the OS and the price. And the Mac laptops are grossly overpriced for the components they contain. It's like OS X is a $1000 add-on.

Not the same at all. Cheap PC laptops don't have mag-safe cords or "drop sensors" to park their hard drives before impact. Nor do they have ambient light sensors to control the luminance of the screen. Nor do they have awesome light packaging. Nor OS X.

A pretty long list of differences that you either didn't know about or purposely omitted.

Thompson
post #96 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haro! View Post

One completely unscientific, interesting factor to consider: An old dead Mac is worth more when reselling than a working similarly aged PC.

From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #97 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by archer75 View Post

Microsoft = McDonalds
Macs are PC's. I know you'd like to think you have something special when you buy mac but it's the same PC hardware that everyone else has a cheaper price.
I'm not arguing that they aren't built well with nice enclosures and materials, on the outside, but they aren't anything special.

Once again, this topic continues to get beaten like a rented mule.

Putting the topic of similar components aside, Windows has so many issues because one deals with a machine with components built from many vendors (both good and bad), that many times do not behave well with Windows. I actually defend Microsoft (to a point) for being able to get Windows to work with the myriad of different chips, components, drivers, etc. All it takes is a bad driver from some vendor to really bug things up. The technically-savvy people will tolerate it and some may actually find it challenging to troubleshoot the problems.

Apple on the other hand has full control of the hardware that runs with their software. Every component in their machines comes with a fully-certified Apple-provided driver/firmware/software that has been tested. Of course, Apple has had issues with drivers but the were always up to the task of getting the issue fixed. That same hardware with Apple-certified software is what makes the entire product a winner. I could care less that HP, Dell, whoever, uses the same piece at a few hundred dollars less. If it has a lousy OS with more hiccups than a drunk, it's not value-added for me.

This is a major point all the critics miss. You folks just focus on one aspect of the debate. Same parts should not be the dominant part of the equation.

So sure, you can hack your way to get OSX running on your non-Apple machine. Good for you. But this may come to a surprise to you but not everyone has the desire to tinker with their machine. Some just want to turn it on and just work.. all day. Microsoft has been horrible to provide a positive user-experience and you very well know that.

Apple spending more on quality construction like the enclosures, glass displays, etc.. to me is more value-added than the flimsy plastic construction all the other folks provide. To each their own. I see value beyond the higher-price that saves me money and time in the long run. Time is money for me which is why gave up on the Wintel model.
post #98 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

The car anology is OLD. Just like Steve.

Apple is buying their parts from every other vendor that PC users are.

Your Mac's are made in communist CHINA.

APPLE IS TAKING YOUR MONEY AND PUTTING IT ON THE BOTTOM LINE WHILE YOU PUSH YOUR NOSE IN THE AIR AND KEEP SAYING MICROSOFT SUCKS.

APPLE = MICROSOFT

BOTTOM LINE DRIVEN.

You can't even get HDMI on a Mac without 14 dongles. Add that in your bottom line cost.

Mac = Not compatible with 80% of the world.
PC = Affordable computing. And for the record a Chevy runs as long as a Lexus.

You have no idea what extra parts are in a Mac that you can't get in a cheap laptop, do you? Admit it: you are actually ignorant of the facts and are either just hoping you are correct or that nobody else is knowledgeable enough to notice how wrong you are.
post #99 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chug View Post

Wow. The number of idiots and laughably stupid posts in this article is astounding. Almost makes me ashamed to be a Mac user. People calling the Xbox 360 a piece of shit? How is this even remotely related to the article? I have a MacBook aluminum and a 360 and it's a great console just like the MacBook is a great laptop; stop being a brainwashed idiot.

This marketing campaign seemed like a good idea but IMO is a huge backfire for MS. Why they chose to project a cheap, budget image with crappy HP laptops when they could've shown off Sony VAIOs and ThinkPads, I just can't understand.

This whole campaign simply shows M$ are hurting IMO. If having 90% market was all that good they'd ignore Apple. Either Ballmer is personally pissed at Apple or they are hurting financially. Or perhaps both?

A an aside: I wonder why M$ never mention their various OSs run on Macs too? I like many Mac users I suspect never bought an M$ OS until I had a Mac with VMWare and Parallels (yes I use both). How many PC users ever buy a copy of M$'s OS (as opposed to a PC with it)?
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #100 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

My Dell's and HP's.

Your Dell's and HP's what? Oh sorry that was just bad grammar?
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #101 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

Name one part in your Mac that can't be purchased on the internet or even better that is in my current PC's.

You have a battery made in china and a motherboard THAT DOESN'T LIKE NVIDIA CHIPS. ALL OTHER PARTS ARE STOCK PC PARTS, VIDEO, RAM, PROCESSOR.

Keep trying to justify your purchase, it makes the 80% of the world laugh.

Not worth replying to realy but a slow night for me.

It's about the Superior OS too, hellloooo You have to use M$

Please go back to your PC forum will ya! Like Ballmer's ads show he is, you too must be getting really worried about Apple to be here (polite way of saying p**s off )
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #102 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

They don't want to ignore Apple they want to crush them. Microsoft is way more concerned about Linux than Apple.

LINUX IS FREE.

MICROSOFT IS JUST PUTTING THE NAIL IN THE COFFIN.

Yep, their own
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #103 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

Tell me which Apple Laptop hasn't had Video Problems in the past 2 years.
Look at Apple's Forums.

Apple just doesn't acknowledge them until they become class action law suits.

You are paying twice as much for PC parts and the THRILL OF KISSING STEVE'S ASS WHILE HE TAKES YOUR MONEY TO THE BANK.

Why do you think they have so much liquid cash. It's because Apple users are blind SHEEP.

All of mine, that is only five I realize but all working fine thanks for asking. Plus never had one virus to fend off or virus software to update that conflicts with every damn thing , how are you doing? Oooh look your Kaspersy / Norton whatever needs updating ... Oh you are not connected to the internet, ohhh, Windows need to restart, Ohhh Don't power off Windows is updating, Ohhhh what a pile of crap. Do you wish to report this to Microsoft?
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
Reply
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #104 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

I don't take any serious reply that has smiley faces serious. I'm a PC user.

You not only look childish with them but it seriously degrades your reply.

But I forgot you're a Mac and I'm a PC.

We are at a party actually and everyone is ROFL at your posts and several of the ladies added the smiles as they thought I was mean to you ...

p.s. I use both (every OS from 95 to 7 ) all day, everyday hence I know ... (I resisted the smile there see?)

Please just go back to your PC group ... you can be happy there and discuss Confliker et al
From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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From Apple ][ - to new Mac Pro I've used them all.
Long on AAPL so biased
"Google doesn't sell you anything, they just sell you!"
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post #105 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlesS View Post

Doesn't AI already have a front-page article on MS's new ads?


Macs have a higher TCO as well. When components in a PC become outdated or you need a new feature like USB 3.0 or eSATA or something else that didn't come with the machine, you can upgrade it for the price of a cheap PCI or ExpressCard add-on. With Macs, you have to throw the computer away and get a brand new one at full price, unless the Mac is one of the extremely overpriced "Pro" models.

They cost more up front, and they don't last as long. It's unfortunate that OS X can't legally run on anything else.

Yeah no USB 3.0 and I totally need to throw my computer away that day.

Macs do cost more upfront but at least you don't have to rebuild the OS every few months. That is what drives my PC friends nuts. Their computers just get slower and slower and crapped up with viruses so that they have to start all over again. That is a cost too buddy.
post #106 of 269
and the OS and all the great software that comes with it. it also has awesome build quality. Super slim and well-built.
post #107 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

Tell me which Apple Laptop hasn't had Video Problems in the past 2 years.
Look at Apple's Forums.

Apple just doesn't acknowledge them until they become class action law suits.

You are paying twice as much for PC parts and the THRILL OF KISSING STEVE'S ASS WHILE HE TAKES YOUR MONEY TO THE BANK.

Why do you think they have so much liquid cash. It's because Apple users are blind SHEEP.

I don't know why you are quoting me. My statement has absolutely nothing to do with anything you said here.
post #108 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by thompr View Post

You have no idea what extra parts are in a Mac that you can't get in a cheap laptop, do you? Admit it: you are actually ignorant of the facts and are either just hoping you are correct or that nobody else is knowledgeable enough to notice how wrong you are.

Doesn't matter when no one cares or needs those extra parts. So yes, you can look at them and say they add to the cost but what the majority of people want doesn't include those things so paying more for stuff you don't need is pointless.
It's all about the specs.
Apple does go with a faster FSB than most but most don't know what that means or don't care.
post #109 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

I don't take any serious reply that has smiley faces serious. I'm a PC user.

You not only look childish with them but it seriously degrades your reply.

But I forgot you're a Mac and I'm a PC.

yahh, Microsoft is sooo much cooler and innovative... like songsmith!!! I feel a song coming on!
post #110 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

Add the rest of the dongles and adapters you need to hook up to non Apple parts and then the fact that you have to buy AppleCare or you are out of luck.

PC's come with a YEAR of repair. Not because they need it but because the care about their customers.
Continue to fight with Apple to get your video card replaced and wait for the next upgrade to hope that it fixes your problem.

You do realize that Apple gives you a year warranty out of the box too, right? And they actually honor their warranty. Let's say that Dell of yours came with Windows Vista out of the box with 2GB of RAM (hypothetically). You decide to upgrade the RAM and then upgrade to Windows 7 when it officially releases. 6 months pass. You start to have some issues with your computer, call up Dell for support and to get your computer back up and running, and Dell tells you this:

All hardware and software must match original manufacturer's settings before any claims on warranties will be filed. That means that you must put the original RAM back in (not the original amount, the exact original sticks) and restore your computer to Windows Vista before Dell will even talk to you.

Flip over to Apple's side of things. You buy a MacBook with Leopard on it and 2GB of RAM. You upgrade the RAM and upgrade to Snow Leopard when it comes out. 6 months later, if you have a problem and call up Apple, they will not only file a claim, but bend over backwards to make sure that you are taken care of and satisfied, even with the basic 1-year warranty.

I understand that you have some unnatural hatred towards Apple and all Apple users. Maybe it's because you're jealous, maybe you work for Microsoft, or maybe you truly just don't/can't accept that there are benefits to Macs. Just answer one question, though. How do you explain Apple's 81% customer satisfaction rating compared to all other manufacturers? The closest one to them is Asus at 67% and, ironically, Acer at 61%. Your precious Dell and HP? 55% and 52%, respectively. I understand you may love them, but there are just as many people that hate them. The same certainly cannot be said about Apple.

source: http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2009/0...action-survey/
post #111 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post

Kind of like Me.com. You pay $99.00 a year for what Google gives you for free.

At least I don't need songsmith to do my job.

I wasn't aware Google gave you 20GB of online data storage and the ability to remotely connect to my other computer at home or at work. Do they also give you top-level web hosting as well? If so, I will cancel my MobileMe and sign up right now!
post #112 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pfister4u View Post


APPLE IS TAKING YOUR MONEY AND PUTTING IT ON THE BOTTOM LINE WHILE YOU PUSH YOUR NOSE IN THE AIR AND KEEP SAYING MICROSOFT SUCKS.

Great posts on this thread until I came upon yours, troll.

Please do us all a favor and STFU!
post #113 of 269
Great posts! Just had to chime in, I own 7 PCs, which I tolerate but pretty much hate...the OS drives me nuts on so many levels. I also own 10 Macs, which I personally LOVE! Especially my MacPro with 30" Cinema Display, man that thing is sweet! So yes, there are uses for both...since I do use PCs, I would certainly like Microsoft to improve their OS. But I've gotta agree with the majority of posters here. PCs are cheap pieces of junk (at least the OS feels that way, unfortunately Microsoft charges a ridiculous amount for it), the Mac OS is an absolute elegant, powerful delight. Apologies to those who feel otherwise, that is simply my opinion. Cheers!
post #114 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Very true. This is my biggest complaint about the current Mac lineup. Selling intentionally closed boxes inherently shortens the usable life of the computer. Macs used to have a longer serviceable life, that's simply not the case any more.

Of course none of that is relevant to the ads which are comparing laptops. In that case, closed boxes on both sides. Same parts, made in the same factories, only real differences are the OS and the price. And the Mac laptops are grossly overpriced for the components they contain. It's like OS X is a $1000 add-on.

And worth every penny! Which by the way, makes a Mac's hardware cost a complete steal for FAR superior hardware. Check out those hardware specs very carefully on that PC, and they are NOT the same hard drives, RAM, whatever that are in a Mac.

Check out that other MS Ad post for more info. Apple's Marketing Dept. would do well to archive that thread, for the many great reasons why the Mac is, and probably always will be, a better choice than anything with MS Windows on it (for the consumer and pro-sumer).

PS: If Apple ever "did" get the silly idea of letting OSX be installed on non-Apple HW... I've said before that the price should be $999.99 (for proper marketing and pricing tactics ...AND without any support whatsoever. Voluntary user and blog support only. If Win7 comes out with 64bit-Premium at ~400,00, Leopard is easily 3x worth that price-point.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #115 of 269
I want to point out something wrong with this article. But first, let me point out that yes I am typing this on a UniBody MacBook running Leopard with iLife '09.

First, Windows "upgrades" do not cost nearly twice as much as OS X upgrades. A full version of Vista Home Premium 64-bit runs you $99.99 over at Newegg.com with free shipping.

This whole nonsense about total cost of ownership needs to finally be put to rest as well.

Apple's retail stores do not exist everywhere. I live in Southern California and the closest Apple store to me is a 75 mile round trip. So for most people in the world, the Genius bar (which has to send the machine out for repair anyway) is inaccessible. That means calling up support and having a box sent to you. The only problem is that Apple Care closes in the evening. So even if you paid $350 for that warranty for your MacBook Pro and it just happens to be passed a certain time at night, you have to wait until the next day to call in for that box to be sent out. The best part about Apple's support, however, is that if you don't have AppleCare and you're passed the 90 days, you have to pony up a credit card so they can authorize a charge of $60 just in case your problem is software and not hardware. So lets compare, shall we? With HP, Dell, etc, and the standard warranty, up to 1 year I can call in and have a box sent to me if I think something is wrong. With Apple, after 90 days on the standard warranty, I have to give up a credit card number with the possibility of being chard $60 to diagnose hardware issues. After its determined to be hardware, then they send you a box. If you live in the US and own a MacBook you better pray to whatever higher power you do or don't believe in, because its going to Flextronics for repair and I can tell you from experience that it will come back in worse shape than it went out in.

To make things even better, if you bought the extended warranty from Dell for your consumer machine, you get accidental damage coverage as well as on-site support. Someone will actually come to your house and fix your computer rather than you going to some "Genius Bar" who determines your hardware needs to be sent out for a week or more and be returned in worse condition it went out in.

Same goes for HP's business extended warranty. HP's consumer warranties offer accidental damage coverage as well as coverage for peripherals bought from the HP site.

Now lets look at other things. Let's say you're like most people and didn't buy an extended warranty. Oh, your optical drive died a year out of warranty. On most PC notebooks all you need to do is go to newegg.com, lay down $50 for a drive that will most likely be significantly upgraded from the one you had, get it, remove the battery and loosen one screw, pull the drive out, slide new one in, reverse process, done. On a MacBook? Well, if you have the non-UniBody systems, be prepared to perform full system surgery. UniBody systems are only half as difficult to work with. But thats after laying down anywhere between $150-$250 for a drive that is most likely used and not upgraded in any way.

Now lets look at cost of hardware. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834220483 $1,299. Same as the UniBody MacBook but competes with the UniBody MacBook Pro at $2,499. What advantages does it have over the computer costing $1200 more? Full size ExpressCard 54, a faster GPU, a higher resolution screen, a 7200RPM HDD, 4 USB ports, 1 eSATA, HDMI, a memory card reader, a 30 day bad pixel warranty, a 2 year standard warranty on top of a 1 year accidental damage warranty.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16834152099 Now what does this have compared to the $2,499 MacBook Pro? Well, it does have the same processor as the $1,999 MBP, so that is a downside. But it has a 7200RPM HDD, a 1680x1050 screen, a blu-ray reader/DVD writer combo drive, full size ExpressCard, a carrying case, a faster GPU with a full 1GB of video memory, HDMI, eSATA, memory card reader, etc.

Now lets look at software. Anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, basically any types of "Security" software that you only need if you're not too bright are all free. AVG, AdAware, Comodo, etc. IT's all free for personal use. But you don't need it as long as you have a bit of common sense.

Let's look at the bundled software. iLife. Okay, let's look at iPhoto. iPhoto does have neat features that do or don't work depending on who you talk to, like Faces. But for old fashioned organizing and printing, Picassa, Windows Live Photo Gallery, HP Photosmart Express, and countless others all do an equally as good job. In fact, HP's software (free to everyone) let's you make and do all of the same neat photo book stuff as iPhoto. But you know what makes it better? You can print it on your own paper and equipment. You can literally make a book for less than half of what Apple charges, plus you can put more in it and control every aspect of the design instead of choosing Apple's pre-made pages. The best part is that none of that software costs a penny, and if they don't yet have a feature that iPhoto does, they will get it and it won't cost you $80. Not to mention the fact that none of that software is as snail slow as iPhoto. I know people that have been Mac users their entire lives that avoid iPhoto like a plague because it is so slow to import. And I agree. On my Mac it takes forever to import pictures. On my PC? I pop the memory card into the reader and the entire card is read and copied in the just a couple seconds more than it takes for iPhoto just to open and recognize the camera.

Next up is Garageband. Garageband is nothing special. When you consider the fact that you save anywhere between $500-$1200 or more by going with a PC over a Mac, you can get something like this: http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_u...tTrackUSB.html better software than Garageband and a significantly better audio interface than what is included on any PC or Mac.

iMovie and iDVD are irrelevant. Why? Because digital video cameras come with their own video editing software. And not just cheap run of the mill junk either. I remember years ago I bought a $50 TV tuner that came with full version of their http://www.ulead.com/runme.htm software. Not crippled trialware or a then previous version. But the full working and then current version of their video editor, DVD creator, and other video related software. So it makes absolutely no sense for the average person to downgrade to iMovie and iDVD when their digital video camera most likely comes with far more powerful and equally as easy to use software.

Now let's talk about longevity. Some people say Macs last longer than PCs. How is that even remotely true? A MacBook with a Core Duo 2GHz and 2GB of RAM and Intel GMA 950 from 3 years ago is no different than a PC with the same specs from that time. How is that MacBook going to last longer? Especially when you consider the fact that the plastic MacBooks were some of the most poorly built computers ever. I know this from experience. In the year and a half from my original purchase, I went through two with a total of being out for repair for a combined total of 2 months thanks to cracking plastics. Which is funny because after the first system was replaced after several botched repairs, I barely used the second system and it still managed to get major cracking in various areas of the case.

So how does the total cost of ownership come in to play again? PCs cost less, have free equivalent software or, in the case you have to buy it, you still come out several hundred or even a thousand dollars less than a Mac that isn't even hardware equivalent. Extended warranties offer more coverage and support and, in some cases, a person is sent to YOU not the computer sent away. So, how are Macs a better value? I own a Mac. It's my third one thanks to botched repairs that were a result of poor build quality. I truly wish I could have just gotten my money back. I would have sold the UniBody MacBook I eventually ended up with if the economy hadn't tanked and nobody wanted to buy it for less than half of what it was worth.

I also want to add another thing. Upgradability. Let's say that, when USB 3.0 comes out, I want to add it to my computer. Thankfully my PC has a full size ExpressCard slot. A small card later and I have more Firewire, eSATA, and USB 3.0. Want USB 3.0 or eSATA on a Mac? Well, better hope Apple supports it first! And if they do, toss out your current system and buy a new one. Add that to your total cost of ownership. And what about the dongles? If I want to connect my MacBook to an external display I need any one of a number of dongles. If I want to connect it to my HDTV I need either a mini-DisplayPort to DVI connector with DVI to HDMI adapter or a mini-DisplayPort to HDMI adapter made by a 3rd party, as well as a mini-TOSLink to TOSLink adapter and an optical cable to get audio. That also means I don't get any of the current high end "high definition" audio formats available on blu-ray. With my notebook PC I have HDMI, its all done on one cable with support for 8 channel linear PCM over the same cable or passing the Dolby TrueHD or DTS Master HD signal to my receiver. Add that to the total cost of ownership as well.
post #116 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post

I think the ads are pointless as well, but you can't convince me that someone who needs to run Microsoft Office and Quicken, surf the internet, and check their e-mail is getting a better deal buying a Mac. If someone's got $800 to buy a laptop they aren't going to buy a Mac, period. These people are Windows buyers no matter what. Apple has made it pretty clear they aren't interested in these people. They wouldn't build laptops with "precision aluminum unibody enclosures" if they were. I'm curious why Microsoft thinks they need to make this point.

As far as the "extra expense of software and support" - I call BS. My wife's HP Pavillion is going on three years old and its still going strong, it doesn't raid my wallet at night for extra cash. I dual boot, and I haven't had to spend an extra dime on Vista. Avira is great free antivirus software, Spybot is free, and Office only costs about $70 when you order it with a new Windows machine. 90% of still and video cameras come with free software (no one "needs" iLife, its fun if you like using it). And if people are replacing an old PC, they've probably got a bunch of software already. What the hell is there to spend a lot of money on? $700 will buy you a decent Dell or HP laptop.

As far as the Mac being trouble free? Well, mine have been for 15 years, but the Genius bar always seems to have a wait when I drop by the Apple store, so some people obviously have their issues.

So this ad campaign and all this posturing is ridiculous. If you want a Mac, buy a Mac. If you've got $1000, buy a $700 PC and save yourself a few bucks. If $1000 is a lot of money to you, spend it wisely.

Ebay (for a used "big" Mac) + MacMini (for spankin new Mac)
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #117 of 269
Quote:
I want to point out something wrong with this article. But first, let me point out that yes I am typing this on a UniBody MacBook running Leopard with iLife '09.

Your working on a Mac, and trying to pump up using a Windows box. Why? Without OSX... the machine as far as I see it... as have many here posted, is almost technically, and financially worthless. In your post you even went so far as to mention FREE anti-virus, malware, phishing, firewalls, etc. etc.

THAT's the problem buddy... or at least one of them. Because if any of those Freebies isn't working, or becomes corrupted, or whatever... you will NOT be able to read ANYTHING into that machine. (Period). Until you FIX it.... re-image it... and basically waste your time, money, and nerves trying to get at those photos with that free HP software... through Windows.

I'll wait a few seconds for iPhoto to avoid that scenario. Although truthfully, I use both Aperture and Lightroom instead. For my use, iPhoto is underpowered. So I agree with ya there.

PS: I live in Germany. I also don't have a Genius bar within a reasonable distance. In fact: Dec 6 2008 the first Apple Store in Germany opened. I've been using and fixing friends, colleagues, and my Macs since 1989 here. When I say "fixing", it normally means installing new software, a hard drive, RAM... and not much else... a little bit of training.

PSS: I had a discussion with a friend that travels extensively back to the States, and he is adamant that the quality of Apple equipment that we get here in Europe (Apple assembly is in Ireland), is superior to that available in the states (mostly NJ and NY, assembly from China). Apple should maybe take a look at that in the future.
Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #118 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by cycomiko View Post

Obliterated everything, except the car analogy is old, tired and utterly false.

My God, with an argument like that and all the proof you've given to back you up, you must be right.
post #119 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by pixelcruncher View Post

$700 will buy you a decent Dell or HP laptop.

All very good points and I agree with you, even down to the fact that the ads are pointless because I believe the public already know this already. If you are economising, buy a PC. If you want bells and whistles, buy a Mac.

Quote:
As far as the Mac being trouble free? Well, mine have been for 15 years, but the Genius bar always seems to have a wait when I drop by the Apple store, so some people obviously have their issues.

My Macs haven't always been trouble free and it's great now there are Genius Bars. However yes they are free and therefore very busy, but you can book an appointment online. It's a small price to pay... I've been there with three- or four-year-old technology, well out of its warranty. They have sorted out both software and hardware issues for me in these cases. So yes I'd say it's worth sitting on a sofa in a store waiting twenty minutes to be seen during busy periods.
post #120 of 269
Quote:
Originally Posted by mosx View Post

I want to point out something wrong..

mosx, you come off to me very much like an astroturfist, based on your article, I mean, post. Is it possible that you're misrepresenting yourself here?
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