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Macbook Pro updates soon? (Nehalem?)

post #1 of 46
3/31/09 at 12:08am
Thread Starter 
I want to know when the Nehalem chip can be expected in a macbook pro. I currently have a first generation macbook air 1.6Ghz, which I've actually enjoyed. However, times have changed in that I have been spending weeks away from my desktop, and thus I really need a more powerful portable.

I've noticed I can get a macbook pro 2.4Ghz at macmall for 1800 (no tax), and I suspect I can sell my air for 1200 or so on ebay at the moment. However, If the nahalem is coming out for the macbook pro within less than 6 months, I might just wait.

Any good opinions? Insightful speculation? Inside info? Or, bad opinions, made up inside info, un-insightful speculation? It's all good...
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post #2 of 46
3/31/09 at 1:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Algol View Post

I want to know when the Nehalem chip can be expected in a macbook pro. I currently have a first generation macbook air 1.6Ghz, which I've actually enjoyed. However, times have changed in that I have been spending weeks away from my desktop, and thus I really need a more powerful portable.

I've noticed I can get a macbook pro 2.4Ghz at macmall for 1800 (no tax), and I suspect I can sell my air for 1200 or so on ebay at the moment. However, If the nahalem is coming out for the macbook pro within less than 6 months, I might just wait.

Any good opinions? Insightful speculation? Inside info? Or, bad opinions, made up inside info, un-insightful speculation? It's all good...

I think 6 months is probably the timeline. The Air will probably be the last to get upped, so it probably won't depreciate quite so steeply when the Nehalem units ship. I just bought a regular macbook ... needed it now. I think I'll buy a Nehalem iMac, especially if they ship the rumored 28".
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post #3 of 46
3/31/09 at 5:15am
Next chip will be the mobile Lynnfield variant of Nehalem, Clarksfield. It'll finally be the quad core we've been waiting for but memory support will probably stay at 8GB likely because 8GB SO-DIMMs will stay prohibitively expensive throughout 2010-2011.

Graphics should be faster overall, not only because of new tech but because the CPU will have the PCI Express controller right on the same package.

The processor is expected at the second half of this year so we MIGHT see an October surprise launch of all new mobiles.
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post #4 of 46
4/1/09 at 8:31am
Quote:
I think 6 months is probably the timeline. The Air will probably be the last to get upped, so it probably won't depreciate quite so steeply when the Nehalem units ship. I just bought a regular macbook ... needed it now. I think I'll buy a Nehalem iMac, especially if they ship the rumored 28".

Did the same with the iMac. Got a good deal. I'm finally back in the Mac camp. I'd love a quad core Nehalem iMac with better gpu and a 28 inch monitor. I'd be all over that.

In the meantime, I intend to enjoy the one I've just got!

Lemon Bon Bon.
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post #5 of 46
4/1/09 at 9:00pm
Does amazon sell apple products?
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post #6 of 46
4/2/09 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Next chip will be the mobile Lynnfield variant of Nehalem, Clarksfield. It'll finally be the quad core we've been waiting for but memory support will probably stay at 8GB likely because 8GB SO-DIMMs will stay prohibitively expensive throughout 2010-2011.

Graphics should be faster overall, not only because of new tech but because the CPU will have the PCI Express controller right on the same package.

at the cost of the QuickPath bus and only x16 2.0.
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post #7 of 46
4/2/09 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglemaster View Post

Does amazon sell apple products?

It's just too much work to go to the Amazon.com website yourself
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post #8 of 46
4/2/09 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

at the cost of the QuickPath bus and only x16 2.0.

So? You have an on-die memory controller freeing up the FSB for all the rest of the I/O. In a laptop you only have need for one really high performance slot, the graphics card. The rest, USB, firewire, SATA, audio, the FSB bus is overkill.
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post #9 of 46
4/2/09 at 9:03am
http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/

Looks as though the pricing guide was updated and the MacBook and MacBook Pros are discounted until mid April... Is this a sign? Maybe.
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post #10 of 46
4/2/09 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustDoIt View Post

http://www.appleinsider.com/mac_price_guide/

Looks as though the pricing guide was updated and the MacBook and MacBook Pros are discounted until mid April... Is this a sign? Maybe.

whatever... don't expect nehalem notebooks before early 2010.

The Clarksfields cpus are expensive 55W parts that will never see the inside of a MacBook (Pro).

Dual-core nehalem mobile cpus (Arrandale) will be available early 2010 (maybe a tad before Xmas, but that doesn't mean Apple will be able to ship them).

If anything happens this year, it will probably be just a speedbump of the current penryn cpus. New versions are planned for late this quarter, and they could be used in a late Summer refresh from Apple (MB up to 2.66GHz, MBA up to 2.13GHz, MBP up to 3.06GHz).

FSB or quickpath, number and type of PCIe lanes are pretty much irrelevant on Apple's (and most) notebooks.

16 PCIe 2.0 lanes are more that enough for the low-midrange gpus Apple is using in the notebooks and any low-end southbridge/ioh will offer twice the ports capacity Apple provides to the user.
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post #11 of 46
4/2/09 at 5:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

The Clarksfields cpus are expensive 55W parts that will never see the inside of a MacBook (Pro).

What do you think the odds are that the Clarksfield cpus will make their way into an iMac?
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post #12 of 46
4/2/09 at 7:01pm
so current architecture unibody mbp + Snow Leopard = no problem?
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post #13 of 46
4/2/09 at 7:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

So? You have an on-die memory controller freeing up the FSB for all the rest of the I/O. In a laptop you only have need for one really high performance slot, the graphics card. The rest, USB, firewire, SATA, audio, the FSB bus is overkill.

no FSB on these cpus and firewire, wifi, networking all needed there own pci-e lane
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post #14 of 46
4/2/09 at 7:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

no FSB on these cpus and firewire, wifi, networking all needed there own pci-e lane

They have a front side bus called DMI; a dedicated connection to the southbridge. This is in addition to the 16 PCIe lanes.
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post #15 of 46
4/3/09 at 6:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

What do you think the odds are that the Clarksfield cpus will make their way into an iMac?

Apple can do whatever they want. My only problem with Clarksfield is that it will be expensive (just like the current mobile quads at $350-850-1,050). In the iMac that could lead to a $500 price increase in the mid/high-end models vs the current custom C2D. Given what Apple has done with the new Mac Pro, it wouldn't surprise me if they release a couple of 24" iMac "Pro" in the fall at $2199/2499.

Moving to 65W desktop quads (s series at $245-320-369) would have been a more customer-friendly solution. nvidia has a single chip desktop chipset that supports those cpus (9300/9400). And Intel has planned to release 65W Lynnfield cpus early 2010.

While I'm at it, LV Xeons (50-60W) would be (IMO) a nicer solution for the high-end iMac than current/clarksfield mobile quads.

Also I think that the iMac lacks matching displays and some kind of expansion slot (ExpressCard, AMD's XGH,...).

I don't think we will see a quad-core notebook from Apple before the end of 2010.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon View Post

no FSB on these cpus and firewire, wifi, networking all needed there own pci-e lane

THere is absolutly no difference between the current architecture (CPU+NB+SB) and the mobile nehalem one (CPU+ IOH) in terms of the number of lanes/ports available. The new CPU is equivalent to the old cpu+NB and the IOH is equivalent to the SB. The NB used to be linked to the SB by a DMI bus, the new CPU is linked to the new IOH by a DMI bus. The IOH will have all the ports and PCIe lanes that you used to get on a SB.

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post #16 of 46
4/3/09 at 8:09am
I am totally with you Mjteix regarding desktop cpus in the iMac. I really wish they would have moved in this direction at the last refresh. But hey, they didn't.

It seems to me that Apple are committed to mobile cpus in the iMac. I hope we see Clarksfield instead of Arrandale as Clarksfield should be 'higher' performing compared to
Arrandale.
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post #17 of 46
4/3/09 at 8:13am
We shouldn't discount the possibility of a custom Clarksfield processor with lower TDP (45-35w) just for Apple. The iMacs use mobile processors that are custom, in that no other PC maker uses them.
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post #18 of 46
4/4/09 at 1:37am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

whatever... don't expect nehalem notebooks before early 2010.

The Clarksfields cpus are expensive 55W parts that will never see the inside of a MacBook (Pro).

Dual-core nehalem mobile cpus (Arrandale) will be available early 2010 (maybe a tad before Xmas, but that doesn't mean Apple will be able to ship them).

If anything happens this year, it will probably be just a speedbump of the current penryn cpus. New versions are planned for late this quarter, and they could be used in a late Summer refresh from Apple (MB up to 2.66GHz, MBA up to 2.13GHz, MBP up to 3.06GHz).

FSB or quickpath, number and type of PCIe lanes are pretty much irrelevant on Apple's (and most) notebooks.

16 PCIe 2.0 lanes are more that enough for the low-midrange gpus Apple is using in the notebooks and any low-end southbridge/ioh will offer twice the ports capacity Apple provides to the user.

mjteix seems to have the minority view. Anyone else with him?
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post #19 of 46
4/4/09 at 3:29am
No, when Snow Leopard is released you absolutely MUST sell all your Apple hardware and upgrade to a Snow Leopard compatible computer (think Vista ready) LOL Sorry for the sarcasm, but have you noticed Apple's OS tends to get faster and run better on older hardware? All you'll need is an Intel processor by the looks, which Apple have been selling for years now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sennen View Post

so current architecture unibody mbp + Snow Leopard = no problem?
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post #20 of 46
4/4/09 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

We shouldn't discount the possibility of a custom Clarksfield processor with lower TDP (45-35w) just for Apple. The iMacs use mobile processors that are custom, in that no other PC maker uses them.


Why do that? The current iMac CPUs are 55 watt parts IIRC. That's why many of us were disappointed that Apple didn't adopt the 65 watt low power desk top CPU at the last refresh. It's not that big of a leap to do so, it would seem.

I'm more inclined to think that Apple will use an overclocked Arrandsle chip in the next iMac. Maybe another minor Pemrun speed bump along the way. Maybe not.

As to the OP question, I really doubt that the laptops will see Clarksvield chips. Apple are't going to redesign the new unibody enclosures to handle hotter chips. The iMac would be lucky to get these chips.
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post #21 of 46
4/4/09 at 7:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac View Post

Why do that? The current iMac CPUs are 55 watt parts IIRC. That's why many of us were disappointed that Apple didn't adopt the 65 watt low power desk top CPU at the last refresh. It's not that big of a leap to do so, it would seem.

I'm more inclined to think that Apple will use an overclocked Arrandsle chip in the next iMac. Maybe another minor Pemrun speed bump along the way. Maybe not.

As to the OP question, I really doubt that the laptops will see Clarksvield chips. Apple are't going to redesign the new unibody enclosures to handle hotter chips. The iMac would be lucky to get these chips.

I was thinking for the MacBook Pros.
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post #22 of 46
4/4/09 at 8:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I was thinking for the MacBook Pros.


Sorry, my bad. Got iMac on the brain.
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post #23 of 46
4/4/09 at 9:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

I was thinking for the MacBook Pros.

Having expensive chips customized for tighter specs (35-45W vs 55W) will be even more expensive.

The current C2D used in the MBP tops at $530 (list price), the "regular" quads start at $350 (2.0) them jump to $850/1,050 (2.26/2.53GHz).

Customizing those or the Clarksfield that will replace them, will probably increase the price even more, unless they REMOVE some specs from the cpus (which is easier given the nehalem modular architecture): less cache, HT disabled,... but will this be enough to reduce the TDP to a level appropriate for the MBP? Not so sure.
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post #24 of 46
4/19/09 at 11:13pm
The current crop of MBPs are way overpriced. No doubt they've left room to cut prices with the revisions. I suspect Apple builds a lot of the cost of R&D of a product into the first editions then reduces it over the life of the product.

I won't buy a MBP til the next revisions with hopefully reduced pricing. The 15" needs to get the same battery technology as the 17" (Apple always debuts new technology in their most premium products). Also, I think it's time that the 15" move to 1680x1050 resolution now that the 17" has gone permanently up to HD. 1440x960 makes it really hard to work with professional apps that need a lot of space. It is supposed to be a Pro model after all. In fact, if I had my way I'd like a 16" MBP with 1680x1050 res.
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post #25 of 46
4/19/09 at 11:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by s.metcalf View Post

The current crop of MBPs are way overpriced. No doubt they've left room to cut prices with the revisions. I suspect Apple builds a lot of the cost of R&D of a product into the first editions then reduces it over the life of the product.

I won't buy a MBP til the next revisions with hopefully reduced pricing. The 15" needs to get the same battery technology as the 17" (Apple always debuts new technology in their most premium products). Also, I think it's time that the 15" move to 1680x1050 resolution now that the 17" has gone permanently up to HD. 1440x960 makes it really hard to work with professional apps that need a lot of space. It is supposed to be a Pro model after all. In fact, if I had my way I'd like a 16" MBP with 1680x1050 res.

It's 1440x900.

And hell yes, give me 1680x1050 in the 15". It would help justify the price gap between the 13" and the 15" models.
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post #26 of 46
4/20/09 at 8:28pm
Sorry for the double post, but I was thinking that in the next MBP revision, which should be around/shortly after SL, Apple might bump the graphics card to be on par with/slightly better than the iMac. If they do this, it'd probably be the Nvidia GeForce GT 130M or GTS 150M, both of which are superior cards to the 9600M GT, though the former only slightly. I think the biggest advantage these cards would give is the ability to offer up to 1 GB GDD3 VRAM. It would probably work out so that the low-end 15" would be stuck with 512 MB VRAM, and the High end 15" and 17" models would be fitted with the full 1 gig.

The standard processor speeds might be bumped, though they also might not. In any case, if the lower-end 15" MBP came standard with 2.66 Ghz C2D, 4 GB RAM, GeForce GTS 150M w/ 512 MB GDDR3 VRAM, and a 1680x1050 display would really make it a more desirable machine for the money.

1 question though, about the GT 130M and GTS 150M, how much would those increase power consumption and heat output?
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post #27 of 46
4/23/09 at 9:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by John French View Post

1 question though, about the GT 130M and GTS 150M, how much would those increase power consumption and heat output?

GT 130M consumes 23W (same as 9600M GT) while GTS 150M runs hotter (almost 60W) being approximately 50% faster. Looks like GT 130M still delivers significantly better performance / power ratio.

Built-in battery in new MBP 15" is more interesting guess. According to my calculations, 15" may get up to 85Wh battery (70% more capacity compared to today's 50Wh)

Here's my wishlist:

1. P9600 (2.66Ghz, 6Mb L2, 25W) or P9700 (2.8Ghz, 6Mb L2 25W)
since they performs on par with T-series but consume 10W less.
2. 1680x1050 15" with anti-glare option (or at least 1440x900 anti-glare)
3. 85Wh built-in battery (needs completely new enclosure)
4. 3 USB ports (why not?)
5. IGP (9400M is more than enough) for maximum battery life
6. GT 130M (not 150/160M)

So we may see some real improvements in battery life/power savings.
I think that enclosure with built-in battery is easier to manufacture and large capacity/1000 cycles battery are worth for many users to switch from current unibody MBPs. Even without anti-glare option...
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post #28 of 46
4/23/09 at 10:08am
The MacBook Pro should be $1,799. Wasn't that the 15" PowerBook G4's price point?
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post #29 of 46
4/23/09 at 10:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjteix View Post

Apple can do whatever they want. My only problem with Clarksfield is that it will be expensive (just like the current mobile quads at $350-850-1,050). In the iMac that could lead to a $500 price increase in the mid/high-end models vs the current custom C2D. Given what Apple has done with the new Mac Pro, it wouldn't surprise me if they release a couple of 24" iMac "Pro" in the fall at $2199/2499.

Moving to 65W desktop quads (s series at $245-320-369) would have been a more customer-friendly solution. nvidia has a single chip desktop chipset that supports those cpus (9300/9400). And Intel has planned to release 65W Lynnfield cpus early 2010.

While I'm at it, LV Xeons (50-60W) would be (IMO) a nicer solution for the high-end iMac than current/clarksfield mobile quads.

Also I think that the iMac lacks matching displays and some kind of expansion slot (ExpressCard, AMD's XGH,...).

I don't think we will see a quad-core notebook from Apple before the end of 2010.



THere is absolutly no difference between the current architecture (CPU+NB+SB) and the mobile nehalem one (CPU+ IOH) in terms of the number of lanes/ports available. The new CPU is equivalent to the old cpu+NB and the IOH is equivalent to the SB. The NB used to be linked to the SB by a DMI bus, the new CPU is linked to the new IOH by a DMI bus. The IOH will have all the ports and PCIe lanes that you used to get on a SB.


What the frack???!!!!

Can you please explain to me that flexible display interface reference in the chart????
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post #30 of 46
4/23/09 at 11:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

What the frack???!!!!

Can you please explain to me that flexible display interface reference in the chart????

I think it's referring to the ability for the CPU to use either discrete PCIe based graphics or an on-die solution.
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post #31 of 46
4/23/09 at 6:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Olternaut View Post

What the frack???!!!!

Can you please explain to me that flexible display interface reference in the chart????

Has nothing to do with YOUR flexible display fantasy for YOUR mystery "Apple" iDevice.

Here, the interface is flexible, not the display...
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post #32 of 46
4/28/09 at 8:29pm
I am pretty sad by the fact that Next Gen Intel wont have SATA 3.0. Which is an important update for SSD.
If Apple were to include SSD in their Mac Product Lineup then it would properly use either next next Intel or a New Nvidia Chipset ( If they sort out their license ).
Which should feature 3G IO ( PCI - Express 3.0 , USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, Bluetooth 3.0 )
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post #33 of 46
4/29/09 at 7:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksec View Post

I am pretty sad by the fact that Next Gen Intel wont have SATA 3.0. Which is an important update for SSD.
If Apple were to include SSD in their Mac Product Lineup then it would properly use either next next Intel or a New Nvidia Chipset ( If they sort out their license ).
Which should feature 3G IO ( PCI - Express 3.0 , USB 3.0, SATA 3.0, Bluetooth 3.0 )

Quite a few companies are bypassing the SATA interface entirely and connecting these SSD drives directly to the PCI Express bus. On an iMac or portable, this can be done using the PCI Express mini standard.
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post #34 of 46
5/3/09 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

So? You have an on-die memory controller freeing up the FSB for all the rest of the I/O. In a laptop you only have need for one really high performance slot, the graphics card. The rest, USB, firewire, SATA, audio, the FSB bus is overkill.

why are they over kill ???
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post #35 of 46
5/3/09 at 6:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Me View Post

It's just too much work to go to the Amazon.com website yourself

lofl
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post #36 of 46
5/3/09 at 11:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by brucep View Post

why are they over kill ???

Because.

Currently the FSB needs to handle the connection to the Northbridge (PCI Express, memory, and Southbridge (things like USB, SATA, FW, Ethernet, etc.) and other connections). These new processors have a memory controller and 16 lanes of PCI express, freeing up a lot of the bandwidth os the FSB(DMI) bus that Core 2 has to deal with to the CPU. I suspect FSb will be more than enough to handle the IO for a mobile/SFF Nehalem system.
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post #37 of 46
5/5/09 at 2:50pm
Been having a look at MacRumors' Macbook Pro revision history and my guess is that the next Macbook Pro revision will come on the first day of the Back To School sale.

The Rev C MBP was released on October 24th 2006, the Rev D was released on June 5th 2007 - the first day of the Back To School sale and one week before WWDC. I'm fairly confident (i.e. hopefull ) that history will repeat itself here.

I'm thinking that maratus is on the right lines with his predicted spec. I think the P9600 will be put in the base model and I'm thinking 4GB will come as standard in light of the recent Laptop Hunters ad, and I'm hoping the GT130M will be standard as well. As far the battery, who knows, it makes sense for Apple to put the non-removable battery in the 15" Macbook Pro since it'll really make it an excellent machine for the road, but for some reason something in me says it might not happen.

Anyway, that's just my thoughts. One thing is for sure, we're definitely due an update soon.
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post #38 of 46
5/6/09 at 5:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Outsider View Post

Next chip will be the mobile Lynnfield variant of Nehalem, Clarksfield. It'll finally be the quad core we've been waiting for but memory support will probably stay at 8GB likely because 8GB SO-DIMMs will stay prohibitively expensive throughout 2010-2011.

Graphics should be faster overall, not only because of new tech but because the CPU will have the PCI Express controller right on the same package.

The processor is expected at the second half of this year so we MIGHT see an October surprise launch of all new mobiles.

Whenever and whatever the next revision is, let's say every single MBP laptop will be able to handle and utilize 8GB RAM - does this mean as long as RAM makers still sell the appropriate SO-DIMM modules, these laptops can use them? So let's say 3 years from now, we have 32 GB RAM modules, this hypothetical MBP should be able to use them, right?
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post #39 of 46
5/7/09 at 4:52am
i think that the future models will likely to be much improved machines....
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post #40 of 46
5/7/09 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by junglemaster View Post

Does amazon sell apple products?

You should ask President Obama that.
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