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New Palm Pre apps underscore Apple's iPhone limitations - Page 2

post #41 of 213
In theory, under controlled conditions, this Pre seems to some individuals to be the perfect handset. But it's far too early to tell if there are compromises being made. There is not one retail Pre in operation yet. People are comparing a nearly one-year-old iPhone against a product that, so far, is vaporware. I know that short battery life doesn't mean much compared to features, but a handset should have good battery life. It is said that the Pre's processor is even faster than what the iPhone has and it's going to be running background processing. I'm curious as to how this is going to affect battery life on the Pre. I suppose if you're paying attention you can turn off background processing if you want, but the average user might not be aware of this and be plagued with running down the battery faster.

If Palm had all the answers years ago, then why do they have a struggling company today? I'd heard that they neglected to update their Palm OS for years. Did they believe that the Palm OS had so many features it didn't need to be updated? Is that the reason Ed Colligan believed Apple and the iPhone would fail because Palm was already sitting pretty with cutting edge products?

Apple is certainly capable of building a mobile OS that can do anything that WebOS can do, but they've made their own decision about how they want to do things. Yet for some reason people think that Apple is not doing it for the user's benefit but for Apple's own secret agenda. At least just wait for the Pre to be in user's hands for one full year before any conclusions are made. As long as the Pre is well-built and bugs are sorted out quickly, then maybe the Pre has a chance of being a solid product for Palm. Now it's just a dream that could quickly turn into a nightmare without strong customer support.

I hope Palm succeeds in putting out a solid product, just to save itself from going bankrupt.
post #42 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisO View Post

Wake up dude, over 12 million sold, that hardly sucks, this has been the most incredibly phone ever product, its only going to get better. Palm is barely hanging on, do you not read the press. However, if the Pre is a a success competition is always good for the market.


You mean, over 17 million sold (plus 13 million more iPod touch).
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post #43 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

1. The "Card" paradigm is a glorified task manager that make switching apps easier but I am convinced that you forget to quit your apps it will drain your battery and it will degrade performance.

2. The "Synergy" integrated contacts and other environments I think will pollute user data with extraneous information and lead to confusion. It may also provide an automation facility for viruses and worms.

3. Take a close look at the Cut-Copy-Paste procedures and capabilities on the iPhone against all other phones including the Pre and you will have to agree that it is well worth the wait. By the way the Pre has no "accurate" method of selecting text using the touch screen. From the demos that I have seen, it should be called "swipe and pray".

3. The "keyboard". I find Apple's virtual keyboards much easier to use than other physical keyboards. I can easily tap the correct keys using my thumb while single handedly holding the phone. Have you ever tried to dial a phone number or an alpha-numeric number on a non-TouchScreen blackberry? Trust me, it's a nightmare. The Pre does have a key pad but the keyboard looks just like a blackberry.

Overall, I think the Pre touchscreen UI looks nicer than many other touchscreen phones but I also think that the engineers were allowed to play "cowboy" and implement some wild UI features that are really not consistent because Palm was desperate for something new and flashy.

Time will tell.

I have to disagree with you.

1. I hate when people say that something is "glorified". That"s what it is. A task manager. To do this on the iphone you have to consistently quit out of one app and exit into another. Palm, again mimicking Apple, is coming out with their own PNS so they will able to have the best of both worlds. I hope that Apple implements background tasks with hardware 3.0.

2. There is no way you know this. Palm is going to have an app store that will, I assume, filter out badly written or malicious apps. The truth is most people would love this kind of functionality. The fandango application is brilliant example of this. Apple is going to have to do this at one point or another. Something tells me that when they initially wanted people to build web apps that it was synergy that they were aiming towards before people were clamoring for native apps. I would not be suprised if apple built an api for this in OS 4.0.

3. I agree. Apple has the best implementation of copy and paste period.

4. I also agree with you on the keyboard on the iphone is highly underrated.

Apple has a lot of things to do with os 3.0. The PNS system is horrible. It will like visiting a xxx website with all the popups that you will get. There also has to be a way that you can quickly access spotlight. Having to press the home button then scroll left is very sloppy. I hope it's something like a triple click.
The OS on the pre is certainly jaw dropping and something apple should take note of. My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead. To say that nobody would like to run pandora in the background while using the gps is lying. Background tasks, whether apple wants it or not, is a neccesity.

At first blush, the pre is a better smartphone and the iphone is a better multimedia device. Apple had better catch up though, because many would choose a smartphone first
post #44 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I couldn't disagree with you more. If there was ever a task or two that begged for background tasking it is music and surfing the web. And for the bit rates that pandora and other http streamers use the impact on the surfing would not be much of a hindrance. I'm speaking for everyone in this case

I agree. Apple's limitations on the iPhone coupled with ATT are going to make me give the Pre a long, hard look before renewing our 4 v1 iPhone contracts. While network issues seem to be regional, I have a Sprint datacard that gets great coverage in this area and unlike the many who hate Sprints CS, I have never had a problem with them when I have called in or visited a Sprint store. Will I go with a Pre? Who knows but if the hype pans out at least there will be a credible competitor to the iPhone and ATT.
post #45 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

The iPhone sucks ... funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. ... Zombie generation with no standards! ... shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated. ....

WTF?
What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?

Moral standards?

That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.
In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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In Windows, a window can be a document, it can be an application, or it can be a window that contains other documents or applications. Theres just no consistency. Its just a big grab bag of monkey...
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post #46 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

WTF?
What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?

Moral standards?

That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.

I don't understand it either. LOL.

I think he's angry about Apple's premium image or something, and all of us buying into that.

I'm not sure what alternative he would propose. The Windows ecosystem (it isn't even one)? With WinMo?? Maybe if it was 1998 and we had nothing better. But I think we have better things to do than to attempt to deconstruct lunacy.
post #47 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

1. The "Card" paradigm is a glorified task manager that make switching apps easier but I am convinced that you forget to quit your apps it will drain your battery and it will degrade performance.

Palm perfected device sleeping with their Palm products (I play around with a Treo that keeps its charge for months while not turned on).

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

2. The "Synergy" integrated contacts and other environments I think will pollute user data with extraneous information and lead to confusion. It may also provide an automation facility for viruses and worms.

Perhaps, and I agree that time will tell. This is a great feature IMO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleSauce007 View Post

3. The "keyboard". I find Apple's virtual keyboards much easier to use than other physical keyboards.

Samsung Instinct has a better soft-keyboard than iPhone, but the iPhone is a better executed product overall, IMHO.
post #48 of 213
All personal attacks aside, Apple's justifications seem reasonable to me.
Many a morning, I've been on the patio with coffee and a cigar, listening to internet radio via wifi. Having that running in the background would definitely be a drain, and a fast one at that.

The Pre is a very interesting device -- the first from Palm in at least 10 years that really makes me want to take another look. Nothing, however, makes me want to switch, especially the way Apple has kept loads of improvements in the pipeline. I'm still running iPhone v1 that was purchased June 30, 2007.

iPhone: shirt pocket NetMac.
et al: nothing close.
post #49 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.

I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.

I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.

Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.

This is a patently trollish post. Nice try.
post #50 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Virgil-TB2 View Post

WTF?
What are you talking about with this "no standards" stuff?

Moral standards?

That has to be the oddest insult I've heard in a while, especially when talking about Apple.

He's trolling, nothing more. Either that, or he's very young and mad at somebody who owns an iPhone.
post #51 of 213
There is nothing easier than knocking the limitations of your competitors' products by crowing about a product that doesn't even exist yet! Palm will look ridiculous when they actually debut their phantom phone, if that ever actually happens.
post #52 of 213
I haven't read every post, and somebody may have addressed this. Currently, only third-party apps are restricted from running in the background. Some native iPhone apps seem to run just fine in the background. For example, playing tunes with the iPod app, then doing other tasks, no problem. Music keeps playing just fine, and I can adjust the volume. I've even (accidentally, not sure how I did it) called up a mini-iPod controller interface while I was using another app, since I was listening to music while doing other things on the iPhone. Perhaps that is the only one; not sure. Obviously, SMS is another backgrounded app. But third-party apps are not allowed to background, and not all native iPhone apps remain active once backgrounded. I will be curious to see how the iPhone 3.0 OS works on the newer hardware.

I will also be interested to see how the Pre's webOS influences other manufacturers, in the same way the iPhone OS had influenced the industry. It's all good, in my book. The more they can influence one another, the better off the consumer.
post #53 of 213
Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.
post #54 of 213
Anyone else notice the large number of posts by posters with less than 10 posts? Weird! On both sides of the argument....
post #55 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by beg_ne View Post

Well the whole classics thing is completely moot. What is the point of bringing that up in the article?

I wouldn't mind an API to hook into the calendar store, its one of the very few things missing from the new API's in 3.0 IMO.

Also i'm still not sold on the backgrounding, we don't know how the battery will handle that, also unless you manage your tasks a lot you're going to slow that phone down pretty easy. The hardware is a lot beefier than the iPhone's 2 year old hardware but it runs slower, or on par at best compared to iPhone with only a few apps running.

It's not moot. It's very important. It could be the one thing that allows this to be a success.

If Apple didn't allow this when moving to the PPC, they likely would have failed. The same thing is true for the move to OS X.

All my cells have been Palm smartphones, starting with the Samsung i300, and ending with the Treo 700p, when we all bought iPhones last August.

I've got 17 apps for the phone, and they cost an average of $20.

I I were to move from the Treo to the Pre, for example, I would have few apps to buy. Taking all my apps over would be the one thing that would allow the continuation of the functionality until enough new apps became available.

There were a lot of questions about what Palm would do until enough apps came out. Now we know.
post #56 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.

I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.

I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.

Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.

I think that we would ALL be happy if you moved to the Pre. Just don't come back here when you start to complain about it too.
post #57 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

More and more desktop applications are becoming web apps. Palm's web-apps are better than Apple's web apps. And we know that Web apps are fine for email, lists, rss-readers, image viewers, to-do lists and so on.

Historically I believe we can see good evidence web apps was truly Apple's original direction for the iPhone. Only because the original web capabilities were so limited and the crowd so noisy for native apps do we have the App Store today. (And what a disaster it is ) Think Squirrelfish, Sproutcore, and Apple's adamance that web apps were the future.

Quote:
As someone invested in the iPhone, I think the Palm Pre is the best thing that could have happened to Apple.

Agreed. And as a Treo 650 owner, I also believe iLad makes a lot of great, valid points. With a third-party app, I had push e-mail 4+ years ago from any IMAP-idle server. Apple only makes this possible with certain commercial IMAP servers and not even with their own Mac OS X Server.
post #58 of 213
Is it true that webOS does NOT support an onscreen keyboard? You have to open the physical keyboard to type? Wouldn't like that...

I'm in the "wait and see what we really have here" camp when it comes to the Pre.
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post #59 of 213
The point of Classics mode is for Palm to be able to say, we already have THOUSANDS of apps, available at the Hold Out Your Palm Store.
post #60 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by steviet02 View Post

I couldn't disagree with you more. If there was ever a task or two that begged for background tasking it is music and surfing the web. And for the bit rates that pandora and other http streamers use the impact on the surfing would not be much of a hindrance. I'm speaking for everyone in this case

You're not speaking for me.

There are tasks (like downloading email) where the iPhone saturates the network or slows down for some other reason. Adding background tasks slows it down even further by the amount of CPU time and network access going to the background task PLUS additional losses for overhead. While I don't expect incredible performance from a phone, there's no point in slowing it down unnecessarily just because some people want to try to do 2 things at once.

Some day, mobile CPUs will be fast enough and use little enough battery power to make it practical. Until then, keep the overhead to a minimum.
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post #61 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

Wow. Is anyone else grateful that this guy is speaking on "our" behalf?

I think Apple's got it pretty close on their first generation mobile platform. It's a real achievement. But that's not to say that people don't want things like background processes. How many people IM, for instance? Having a notification server is a hack, in the end. A workaround to meet a certain architectural philosophy.

It's not a hack. You just fail to see the bigger picture. With the notification server in place I can receive notifications from a hundred different sources without needing a single one of those clients/applications running in the background. On every other platform you would need to have all those clients running and maintaining their own connections and polling for incoming data and eating up CPU cycles.

What Apple is first trying to accomplish is removing the need to have superfluous clients running in the background when all they're doing is monitoring ports for data, which can be handled by the OS. It is my belief that once Apple gets developers into this way of thinking, they will eventually open applications to run in the background that truly need to continue running, such as a music streaming client, etc.

While I agree that being able to run certain applications in the background would be nice to quickly jump back and forth, this method for serving notifications makes a lot more sense for mobile devices that have limited power, both in CPU and battery, and especially when being notified and staying in touch is the exact reason we all walk around with these devices in the first place.
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #62 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.

.

Clearly your as ancient as those phones and still fall under the idea that its business first everything second. A smartphone doesnt have to be smart anymore it has to be entertaining something the iphone suceeds at. if a business man really wants to do big business hes gonna buy the meanest blackberry around. My smartphone doesnt have copy and paste like seriously people are so ridiculous with their standards my smartphone is fine and it doesnt have that so really go back to your prehistoric brick
post #63 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So tell me again how well Pandora and Fandango will work without a web connection, for those Pre owners without access?

Unlike ATT, Sprint and Verizon have web access pretty much everywhere.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post


Palm seems to emphasize always-on and background processing? Let's see how well that battery lasts with everything running. You forget to shut an app and put in in your pocket? Will you have a dead battery in 30 minutes then?

Of course they are emphasizing it as they are taking a shot directly at the iphone, which does not allow background processing, which almost all phones have forever. Its such a basic feature that the fact that it is not there is a slap in the face. But I have to say some people like being abused.

As for how long will the battery last with background processes active. Well I would imagine it would last as long as any other Palm or Blackberry phone has for the last 10 years. Fine.

I used to have a Palm Centro that had tons of background apps running, the phone would last a couple days easy.

I currently have a Blackberry Curve, which ALWAYS has 16 apps running in the background at all times. I use about 45 minutes of talk everyday, send about 50 emails, maybe 20 text messages. At the end of the day my battery is usually at 70%. This is on a battery that is now 11 months old and is charged every single night while I sleep.
post #64 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Constable Odo View Post

In theory, under controlled conditions, this Pre seems to some individuals to be the perfect handset. But it's far too early to tell if there are compromises being made. There is not one retail Pre in operation yet. People are comparing a nearly one-year-old iPhone against a product that, so far, is vaporware. I know that short battery life doesn't mean much compared to features, but a handset should have good battery life. It is said that the Pre's processor is even faster than what the iPhone has and it's going to be running background processing. I'm curious as to how this is going to affect battery life on the Pre. I suppose if you're paying attention you can turn off background processing if you want, but the average user might not be aware of this and be plagued with running down the battery faster.

If Palm had all the answers years ago, then why do they have a struggling company today? I'd heard that they neglected to update their Palm OS for years. Did they believe that the Palm OS had so many features it didn't need to be updated? Is that the reason Ed Colligan believed Apple and the iPhone would fail because Palm was already sitting pretty with cutting edge products?

Apple is certainly capable of building a mobile OS that can do anything that WebOS can do, but they've made their own decision about how they want to do things. Yet for some reason people think that Apple is not doing it for the user's benefit but for Apple's own secret agenda. At least just wait for the Pre to be in user's hands for one full year before any conclusions are made. As long as the Pre is well-built and bugs are sorted out quickly, then maybe the Pre has a chance of being a solid product for Palm. Now it's just a dream that could quickly turn into a nightmare without strong customer support.

I hope Palm succeeds in putting out a solid product, just to save itself from going bankrupt.

Thanks for that very sane post -- instead of the considerable, noisy back-and-forth -- in this thread!
post #65 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueces View Post

Unlike ATT, Sprint and Verizon have web access pretty much everywhere.

Fwiw to you, where I live, ATT > Verizon. Data from Sprint is nearly non-existent.

(Sheesh. Talk about the arrogance of extrapolating and generalizing from a few-mile radius of one's existence......)
post #66 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Fwiw to you, where I live, ATT > Verizon. Data from Sprint is nearly non-existent.

(Sheesh. Talk about the arrogance of extrapolating and generalizing from a few-mile radius of one's existence......)

Sorry to be replying to my own post...... but, on the subject of Verizon - whose coverage and quality I constantly hear people praising a lot - see this: http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10209477-51.html

Heh heh. The comments section of the article is a fascinating and telling eye-opener for me.
post #67 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

The iPhone sucks pure and simple and is being funded by idiots with non existent standards with a me too, narcissistic complex. A generation of media brainwashed zombies. 3 revisions before you get cut, copy & paste? Zombie generation with no standards! A fourth generation to get a video camera? No office apps? Things that i have on my ancient Treo 650 or even my prehistoric Treo 600.

I have a Treo 650 running Palm OS and it does so much for me as smartphone. Yes the browser is such a nightmare but it does a lot for example i can schedule a meeting and have all pertinent information at my finger tips like contact info, notes, etc all attached to one event. All i do is drag and drop or "clip" the items in Palm Desktop, sync and all that info is at my fingertips. Or when i call the roadside assistance folks, i'm able to talk and pull up all the vin number and info they need all from my address book and open up other apps for more information. Lots of useful applications for it even one to tether that does not get me charged by Sprint.

I've had no issue with background apps nor any battery problems. I love the use of the stylus, it makes data entry and selecting things easier for me. Video camera as well. Seriously who is Apple to dictate to me how i can and can not use my device? If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software. Apps run on my Treo 650 in background fine, i'm sure the mighty iPhone hardware and OS can handle it or can it? The only thing my Treo does not do well and is lacking is its browser. What BS from Apple, they just don't have the skill or engineering know how. All they do well is sell bright shiny, expensive, backward nonsense gobbled up by a genration of mindless, no standards zombies who are pitifully trying to act cool, self important and sophisticated.

Until they become a legitimate smartphone and start playing with the big boys (money has nothing to do with qualifying to play with the big boys of tech), i'm not buying one. I may just move to the PRE.

You are obviously a Palm guy. That's OK. But if you are so certain that the Pre is better than the iphone why are you trolling on an Apple oriented site to comment on the pre- Why not stay in Pre forums?
post #68 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.

Bingo!
post #69 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Damn Apple has a lot of haters, seems the more success you get the more haters you get.

In a day where success is despised and even punished, it's understandable.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #70 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by iLad View Post

If there is a malware issue, then there will be companies to make anti-malware software.

Are you insane? Do you really want to run daily virus scans on your phone and have an anti-malware app running constantly and reducing your battery life to zero?

I've heard about Windows users having premium rate dialers installed without their knowledge... until they received a gigantic bill at the end of the month. Is this what you want on your iPhone?
post #71 of 213
A viable competitor to the iPhone should be welcomed as competition will only make the iPhone that much better. I don't know if the Pre will be a direct rival, but it's unhealthy, in my opinion, for Apple to occupy that space alone.
post #72 of 213
I feel I need to remind again:

iPhone OS can run multiple tasks at once. In fact, it always does! There are more than a dozen processes that are always active. Two of them are the Phone application, of course, and the Springboard application (the iPhone Finder equivalent). Pretty often, Mail and Safari are runnung in the background as well, even when the user is using another app. This is extremely important to keep in mind, because:
  1. Apple can "unlock" the multitasking for third parties whenever it feels this will improve the user experience or it feels a pressure to do so.
  2. Apple can allow selected third party applications to run in background, if they feel this will improve user experience.
  3. The desision to block the background running applicatin support for third parties is made by professionals, not by idiots. Why everibody and his dog feel that they know better?

Most iPhone users have two dozens of apps or more. The idea to have your application running in background is very tempting for developers, few of them (the Apple provided ones) already run in the background. And even Apple's apps are not perfect: restarting the phone once a week helps a lot. The idea that every developer out there should be allowed to write a background application and the user should manage the priorities, and this will be good for the user, is extremely far from reality. The actual technical limitation of the iPhone OS is the lack of virtual memory. The multitasking is just there. Then, again, I have hard time to believe that Apple could not implement virtual memory because their engineers are morons, or they want to abuse the user.

That said, I am pretty sure Apple will unlock the multitasking for third parties when they feel the hardware is good enough and they can have fast and efficient virtual memory implementation, or when there is competitive pressure to do so.
post #73 of 213
1. OK. Well, True multitasking is certainly a good thing. We'll have to see if Palm can keep the UI snappy while maintaining respectable battery life with the background apps. We tried this with WinMo and Apple's statement does check out.

2. OK. I don't know with certainty, but allowing other local apps and web environments to inject information into your contacts and schedule sounds dangerous to me. You could end up calling some 900 number instead of your spouse or strange appointments could be injected into your corporate or family calendar. Then your boss and/or your spouse could get very upset with you. Who knows... Time will tell. :-)

The iPhone is certainly not perfect. I would also like to see a faster path to SpotLight. I must say however the features that the iPhone does have are extremely well implemented and with very consistent user interfaces. The programming tools and APIs are also rich and impeccable.

ciao


Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

I have to disagree with you.

1. I hate when people say that something is "glorified". That"s what it is. A task manager. To do this on the iphone you have to consistently quit out of one app and exit into another. Palm, again mimicking Apple, is coming out with their own PNS so they will able to have the best of both worlds. I hope that Apple implements background tasks with hardware 3.0.

2. There is no way you know this. Palm is going to have an app store that will, I assume, filter out badly written or malicious apps. The truth is most people would love this kind of functionality. The fandango application is brilliant example of this. Apple is going to have to do this at one point or another. Something tells me that when they initially wanted people to build web apps that it was synergy that they were aiming towards before people were clamoring for native apps. I would not be suprised if apple built an api for this in OS 4.0.

3. I agree. Apple has the best implementation of copy and paste period.

4. I also agree with you on the keyboard on the iphone is highly underrated.

Apple has a lot of things to do with os 3.0. The PNS system is horrible. It will like visiting a xxx website with all the popups that you will get. There also has to be a way that you can quickly access spotlight. Having to press the home button then scroll left is very sloppy. I hope it's something like a triple click.
The OS on the pre is certainly jaw dropping and something apple should take note of. My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead. To say that nobody would like to run pandora in the background while using the gps is lying. Background tasks, whether apple wants it or not, is a neccesity.

At first blush, the pre is a better smartphone and the iphone is a better multimedia device. Apple had better catch up though, because many would choose a smartphone first
post #74 of 213
I think this argues against allowing just about anything on a phone, and allowing almost unfettered access to any area on a phone.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itune...m?newsid=20093

So far, the iPhone has an enviable record in security matters. Other phones have had virus's going way back, and I always had to be careful with mine.

Maybe Apple's way IS better.
post #75 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by str1f3 View Post

My guess is that it will take another year for apple to catch up and move ahead.

post #76 of 213
To all those concerned, it is obvious that multitasking will come at the expense of battery life.
Everyone knows this.

But the Pre has a replaceable battery, so what's the big problem?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #77 of 213
Guys,

Hold off your final judgment and strong opinions until Palm Pre and next iPhone are released. As I mentioned before, I had a chance to play wit Pre for a while and found it very good but not Jaw Dropping by any means. Of course, you need to use the device for few days in real life to get a real feeling.

Palm will have trouble making the Pre a killer product, and the reasons are beyond the technical capabilities.

Having one provider in the US, and a bunch of people building expectations that it will outsell the iPhone as soon as it is released is unrealistic. Those same people may declare the Pre a failure because it did not meet their unrealistic predictions, just as they declared the iPhone a failure because Apple did not sell 1 million units the first weekend. But that may hurt Palm more than it did hurt Apple.

Recently there were reports from "analysts" that the Pre may sell "only half the number of the iPhones" Apple is expected to sell for the same period, and that would be a flop. Give me a break! It will be a HUGE success for Palm if they manage to sell 25% percent of the phones Apple will sell for a year.

P.S. I am not a native English speaker, so please help. Does the word "analyst" has something to do with the word "anal" and the way the analyst pull the data for their conclusions?
post #78 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

And another great set of well-thought out arguments. Well done you!
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It's healthy for people to give constructive criticism. What's the point of just constantly praising something in blind adoration? It's like you're in love with someone and don't notice the mole on their chin anymore.
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If we praise and criticise it in an intelligent and constructive way then we can make it an even better product.

I like the cut of your jib.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

It also doesn't seem to have been spell-checked:

"...interpreting code within tjhird-party apps..."

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He was just getting back to his Swedish roots.

Jimzip
"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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"There's no time like the present, and the only present you'll never get, is time." - Me
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post #79 of 213
I've seen the Pre videos and I think while no one can guarantee anything with regard to iPhone versus Pre or the reverse the way that the Pre multitasks makes very good sense from the perception of understanding. The graphics of the cards and they way they back out and move looks just like if Apple designed Expose for the iPhone.

It is really rare that someone does something better and before Apple that makes so much sense.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #80 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow View Post


P.S. I am not a native English speaker, so please help. Does the word "analyst" has something to do with the word "anal" and the way the analyst pull the data for their conclusions?

Excellent surmise.


But, as with many words in English:
Origin: 165060; from French analyste, equiv. to analyse analysis + -iste -ist, by haplology from *analysiste
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