Microsoft's latest ad attacks Mac aesthetics, computing power - Page 4

now i agree to a point with MS software (which is why i only every buy it when i know a student that will purchase it for me at a small fraction of the cost)

however when it comes to hardware? MS charges less than its competition most of the time. look at the Xbox and Zune. (both great products if you dont already have an iPhone, the 360 is the best gaming system this gen, and costs half as much as the PS3, and $50 less than the Wii)

Well said.

I recently switched from PC to Mac because of the constant crashes, failures and increasingly slow processing of my Dell. One of the best things, for me, that I like about Mac is the tech support. I've initiated an online contact for various questions I've had about my new Mac and had a call-back within seconds of clicking "call me now". That is opposed to being on the phone more than an hour, getting the run around, talking to someone in Sri Lanka or India or any of the other umteen countries where Dell has tech support only to have my problem remain. With my Dell's last crash, it went into the trash. HP, Dell...they're all the same! Unreliable system hogs without reliable customer support. Along with reliability, as far as I am concerned, it's service after the sale that is important to me. Just my $0.02 worth.

Lol. You Mac geeks are some funny freakin people. I like life on my tier.

Do you have any idea the hoops you have to jump through to run OS X on a PC? Even worse, do you have any idea what it takes to keep it running? Unless you are a hobbiest who enjoys that particular brand of pain for the challenge of it, I wouldn't recommend it. It doesn't exactly, "Just work." I agree with you that Apple needs to address it's pricing. Not necessarily at a particular dollar per spec point (although I wouldn't complain if they did) but more along the lines of configuring a mid tier product between "stripped or tricked out to the max)all ready been discussed to death on this forum.

Apparently, you missed the part where I said, "I see nothing wrong with legitimate gripes about some of Apple's mistakes, every company makes them."

And I stand by the fact that anyone who says, "Microsoft rocks in everything they do" on a site called, "Apple Insider" is 1). Wrong about Microsoft and 2). Trolling.

If you think someone posting a response to such comments is an "attack" you should probably stay off message boards all together. You appear to be a little too thinned skinned.

How the hell do you even know that - were you inside Bill Gates head? or are you referring to a movie with Noah Wyle as Steve Jobs? And why would a Mac "send him into a tizzy"- I don't recall Gates and Microsoft making a computer- ever.

lol. You geeks who make non-statements and pretend said "nuggets of wisdom" somehow pass for logic are just plain freaks. Enjoy your PC.

no its not. its a closed minded way to think at a time where the global economy has shrunk over 10% in 1 year.

personally i do own SOME brands. when i buy beer, i buy micro beers, by the brand i like. which do cost a little more. but i dont drink beer to get drunk, im paying for the flavor, not the effect.

my clothes pretty much come exclusively from old navy, which is kind of a brand... they costs a little more than walmart, but they last for years. sure its doesnt have a giant A&F logo on the front, but maybe im just more comfortable with myself and my place in society being a college graduate, to not feel the need to show off wealth.

yeah, and you completely ignore the fact that he loves Apples as well. just because someone is open minded enough to like both companies at the same time does not make them a troll. if they made a "i like apple and microsoft forum" then people like us would have a different place to go. but there isnt one, not one with any traffic anyway.

for now you'll just have to deal with us sound minded "trolls" and deal with having to read both sides to every story...

MS made a clunky non-gui based interface that required a certain level of programming to use, offered text on a solid background, and virtually no graphics capabilities compared to the Mac's GUI (the first commercially available for the masses).

Adobe exists today because the Mac provided a platform to run graphics applications (most of Adobe's core products started out either as their own product or products from companies they acquired as Mac only applications until Windows came out).

Windows was released in direct response to the first Apple OS. It's no secret, it's history.

hahaha

I use an iMac.
I use a PC.

I have Mac OS and Vista

I got a nano and an iPhone

I have an Xbox

Shut up now

And what do you call those that only spew forth posts that 1.(Apple makes know mistakes and 2.)always knows what you want and when you want it ie, video on a phone, MMS pic and texts, blu-ray drives, cd burners, non-replaceable batteries etc, etc ,etc and 3.) swear that MicroSoft is the anti-Christ, Legion, and Beezulbub and has never made a decent product???? They also label any critique on anything Apple as either a complaint or a whine.

You name call those on one side of the spectrum(trolling) may be valid but totally ignores those on the other side -those posters that post and attack legitimate critiques daily- nonstop. What do you call them?

I agree that the new Macbook Pros look really good, but the best thing about the new macs for me is that they caused a major price drop of the old Macbook Pros on Amazon back in December 2008. I picked up a 15″ 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro with 512 MB NVidia video RAM for $1500 on Amazon after rebate. Dont get me wrong, $1500 still seems like a TON of money to spend on a laptop, but I dare you to match those specs for less on whatever OS. Of course I wasnt about to spend $700 more for the new version of MBP with the same specs either (plus I had to have a matte screen just personal preference).

I like macs and pcs for different reasons. They both have their strong points, and the truth is that I can do what I need to do on either one. So while it looks like there is a huge price difference between the two, if you shop around youll find that its not as big as you think. I say that, but the deal I got is gone. The same laptop I bought is now back up around $1700 which is just out of range for the $1500 spending cap in the ad. If you want to look at price extremes, the new 17″ Macbook Pro is insanely priced at a cool $2700. The laptop hunters should have fun with that one.

Ultimately, I think Windows 7 will even things out quite a bit. Im already running the beta in a VM on my MBP, and I think Microsoft is headed in the right direction. (If only they would get rid of the whole hide-everything-in-the-registry idea and go with a more stable Unix-based architecture. Just think what all those programmers could come up with if stability was more important than DRM!) Maybe Im just too practical to really engage in this mac vs. pc thing. It seems to be a lot about personal preference. I like the hardware I chose because its fast, light, thin, and has a decent (3 hr) battery. If someone else finds a better deal on something else, good for them. At this point I am a little partial to macs mainly out of habit and ease of migration. That said, I am seriously considering a PC for a media center.

I know I havent done a good job separating hardware and software here, and part of this is because pcs and macs have such different approaches here. With pcs, you have lots of hardware choices, and with macs well, you dont. I think it would be really interesting to separate the operating system from the hardware on the mac side of things, and its starting to happen. I would like to see more hackintosh desktops in the future non-Apple desktops capable of running OSX. I dont see a clear winner in the mac vs. pc race, but its great to see the user experience improving on both sides. For that reason alone lets keep the competition going! In the end I hope the winner will be the customer.

Sounds like you and every Mac user keeps using outdated computers... IE: PowerPCs and Old Win Machines....

I used new Dells and HPs with Vista and never crashes..... Sad to be you with crap hardware. Next time I sell old hardware both Mac or PC, I know I can count of thousands of people will to buy my junk

Wrong.

Apple's margin on everything is 32%. Microsoft's is 82%. Apple's software prices are the lowest in the industry for the products they sell.

You can talk about it all you want and make up whatever scenarios you want, but the facts are going to stay the same.

Apple uses a standard (healthy but low) retail margin on everything. Microsoft charges huge prices for it's software because it's a monopoly and it knows it can, so it does.

The main reason a PC can be had cheaper than a Mac is that the hardware manufacturers all have to buy Windows to sell the hardware and have to kick back that part of the profit to Microsoft. They all compete with each other over the crumbs and reduce their margins down to the razor-thin variety so as to win the sale. Microsoft on the other hand, never reduces their margins.

Microsoft's software sales are like a giant leech hanging on to the side of the hardware sales, sucking all the profitability out of the market. If there were even two viable desktop operating systems that could compete in that market, the price of MS's software would plummet and start to approach it's real cost which is tiny in comparison to it's retail price.

No, I didn't ignore what he said. What he actually said was, "I like both companies... Both for different reasons." Then he went on to say that everything Microsoft does, "Rocks".

It just didn't jive with the rest of what he (or she) said. I am a Mac user, have been for 20+ years now (and sometimes on rare occasions a Windows user). I wouldn't, however, go to a site called, say, "MicrosoftInsider.com" and say, "I like both companies for different reasons but everything Apple does rocks" without expecting a less than favorable response.

Yet I have been about as vocal condemning some of the mistakes IMO I feel Apple makes as anyone you will find on this website. You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to find it difficult to believe that anyone who "loves macs" as you put it, would come to a site like this and make a statement along the lines of, "Everything Microsoft does rocks" but isn't trolling.


LOL. Of course no one reads every post on a website, but you might want to read some of my other posts in other threads on this site before you make such a statement.

And Gates going into a tizzy and convinced that Microsoft was dead that day he saw a Mac (as you've stated ??-What history book are you referencing in that bold statement? Where did Bill Gates say that? It sounds like you been reading the Apple Enquire.

Uh, you don't recognize my user name or some of the posts I've made in threads you've posted to as well do you? If you had, you'd know that I am far from a biased Apple fanboy. There is a difference between an opposing viewpoint, rational critique, and blatant flame bating.

exactly, i love a lot about my apple products. my iPhone is the single best device IN THE WORLD. not because it does anything perfectly, but because it does just about anything you could imagine. My Mac? i like OSX, but it also has limitations, and when i have it networked it tends to crash a lot, especially when i was in college. it would freeze as well, and has had to be repaired 3 times in 4 years. but 90% of the time, i prefer to use it, just for the simple tasks that i run into, OSX tends to make them more enjoyable, and quicker when i need them to be quick (as certain programs are more well rounded).

now, all the positives are CONSTANTLY being said about Macs on this forum. Why would i just be a sheep and say the same thing as everyone else constantly? now sometimes i do, particularly with the iPhone, however most of the time what could be said has already been said. the negatives though? they are rarely mentioned, and considering i like both Mac and PC/MS i make it a point to post the other side as well. if there wasnt a select number of members doing this then the site might as well be Mac fans standing around, smug as hell, smelling their own farts.

there is nothing wrong with having both sides to every story.

Then clarify your posts before posting next time-it was the Mac OS that caused the Gate's concern not the Mac itself.
It's also history that Microsoft for the most part rules the world.

You don't know what you're talking about, unfortunately. Please inform yourself before making such statements.

Apple's TTM (trailing twelve months') gross margin on all its products is 34%. Its operating margin is a shade less than 20% (although it was slightly higher last quarter, 21%). Apple does not break out its margins by hardware versus software segments. The only segment margin data you get is for various geographical areas + retail. (Where MSFT combines hardware and software in a product, e.g., its Zune or XBox division, it does not break out hardware versus software margins either).

Also, we know that MSFT is a monopoly -- both US and EU courts have ruled on that. So we know that its margins, whatever they are, must be higher than that of a competitive player, and that it must come out of consumer surplus.

you are right to a point.

but its not always 32%. the iPhone is thought to be bringing in over DOUBLE what apple spends to make it (which is amazing considering how good it is) their software is cheap and good though.

as for the lowest? no.

Really? A gross margin of 67%? Can you provide a cite/link?

The post was clear enough, where Apple products are concerned the platform is hardware and OS, not just the OS. I didn't feel the need to write a full article on the subject (although I've been less than brief before). You might want to try reading with a little higher level of comprehension before you respond.

Microsoft rules the world? Ok, I think I have a better idea of the reason you are here.

No, no I wasn't referring to you- you made it made it plain and clear that you were unbiased. And you gave me the answer I was looking for- biased Apple fanboy.
Apple is a big part of my life as I have many Apple products. Number one is the OS which is second to none. The issue that I really have (ignoring the latest shuffle) is the fact that that Apple TV and MacMini should have merged by now because while ATV lack functionality (no Safari), the MacMIni lacks connectivity into your living room HDTV (no HDMI). Last night I was streaming video from Amazon and could not use the ATV and the realized that a Mac Mini has no HDMI and have been hearing that the image is not great for an HDTV.

Pot meet kettle.

You're the one with the stunted comprehension!-Do you actually think I literally meant that Microsoft rules the world?
So what operating system does have the largest share % in the world ? Tell me? I would like to know your answer because I am so in the dark then. Enlighten me. Please.

Bringing up again. Microsoft's roadmap from day 1 is selling their OS to PC builders and corporations. And now Windows can run on Macs. They also sell Microsoft Office on Macs too. This commercial is an ad for HP too. For all the people who keep on saying Microsoft can make more money on PCs, go do an audit on how Microsoft became what they today by selling licenses. In those days, there wasn't activation, and PC's were very very expensive. Most of their income was Windows NT and server software. But Still Microsoft dominated and became very rich. And let's see how much Microsoft spent on lawyers and court cases. They are advertising only HP. What about the other PC's that can run Windows? I'm not comparing PC to Macs, I'm talking about Microsoft and their BS.

sure. now this is all from memory, its been a good 8 months since i read the original article.

3g
http://www.intomobile.com/2008/06/17...lieve-100.html

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-9992829-1.html

the first gen.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphone...tax-229664.php

now thats the cost to MAKE them. not the cost to create them. however its selling far better than they expected, millions more than the projected, which the more they make, the less influence that initial cost effects the "per items sold" price.

That's because the cost of the overpriced hardware compensate for much a any new software costs- it a built in system. You can't use Apple software anywhere else but on Apple products. There is no licensing overhead and Apple probably eats it as GoodWill expense.
Microsoft's on the other hand are used universally- wherever PCs are sold and includes a much higher licensing charge.

Stunted comprehension? Kettle meet pot. I got what you meant, it just wasn't the most cogent of points. The computing "world" is ruled by neither MS, Apple, nor Linux. If one uses Apple products as their platform, then one's "world" as it pertains to computing, is the "Apple world", which Apple dominates 100%. Same goes for the "MS world", the "Linux World" (and the "etch-a-sketch world" for that matter). People use the products or mix of products as suited to their needs. Microsoft rules the Windows world, no more. Your "world" is not my "world."

The problems begin once you take the PC home, not when you purchase it.

So sorry that you're in denial.

Oh so because the economy is down I should stop living my life. I should only shop at Walmart, eat unhealthy cheap foods, buy everything from the dollar store, and just go the cheap route for everything in life from electronics to food. You said you wear Old Navy, well that's a brand, why aren't you buying all your clothes from a dollar store or even thrift store, after all the economy is down 10 percent.

Irrelevant to me Apple just like Microsoft tries to find the highest possible profit margin.

You don't know what you are talking about.

Wrong. The hardware is market prices, plus a standard retail margin. That was the main thrust of the post you are replying to but you still don't seem to get it. Standard cost plus standard margin. Repeat that to yourself about a hundred times before continuing.


This is just absolute nonsense. I can't reply because so much of it just makes no sense. "Apple ... eats (their licensing costs)?" What are you talking about?

Is English your first language?
Have you ever even *been* to a college or University?
Why is it after months of posting dribble on Apple Insider you still think someone should listen to you or that you still have something to say?

You are a very lucky guy not to be banned form this site for all the personal attacks you make, but even when you get "serious" like here, you just aren't worth talking to.

Forums are for debates and conversations, the automatic shrill gain-saying of everything you read or hear is neither of those things. Your posts (overall) are cruel, empty of meaning, and not funny (despite the plethora of happy faces you attach to them.) Go away, please. No one wants you here or finds you amusing or interesting.

Please do yourself and everyone on this forum a favour by deleting "teckstud," taking a deep breath and start over again with one of your alt accounts. It's part of the growing up process acknowledging when you've been behaving like an a-hole and deciding to move on. Please move on.

You'll only be embarrassed when( as an adult), you look back on all the tripe and bile you spew on this forum.

I am afraid it's totally FUD. Just to get the facts clear, I looked at all three of your cites - Gizmodo says 'BOM' costs (i.e., only the actual cost of material, it is neither the cost to make nor create them, as you suggest) may give Apple a 50% margin relative to sale price, CNET says 55%, and Intomobile implies it could be as high as 75%.

Intrigued by the Intomobile number, I went to their source, which they say is a company callled Portelligent. Here is what the actual quote is, from the CEO of Portelligent:
-----
"I'd suspect the collective volume, learning and engineering changes to the display would mean that the whole touch screen assembly might be about half the $60 or so we estimated for Gen1 a year ago," Carey said. "In addition, the 8 Gbytes of MLC NAND is today around $20 compared to the $50 that might have been the case in June 2007," he added. Carey estimated Apple may have shaved another $25 off the bill of materials costs based on changes he observed in a teardown of the iPod Touch.

Those changes are only slightly offset by new costs for the iPhone 3G. Carey said the additional cost of an HSDPA chip set are only about $15 plus another $5 for the GPS chip. He also noted that the $100 price increase for a model with 16 Gbytes flash adds to the profit margin because the additional memory chips probably cost Apple only about $20.

Netting out all the changes Apple may have had a gross profit based solely on cost of hardware for the original iPhone of $229 and profits of just $99 for the iPhone 3G. "It's always important to point out that hardware BOM costs do not capture many other important facets of product cost such as development costs, software costs, licenses and marketing," he said."
-----
Huh?! If it's "profits" (sic) of "just $99 for the iPhone 3G" that's more like 33% - 50%, according to this guy.

Or, I have no clue what he's actually saying.....

So sorry you can't come up with a decent rebuttal. It was fun while it lasted.

LOL, you just made it perfectly clear by using an example that i just stated i dont do myself. i DONT shop at walmart. in fact i purchase most of what i get at a farmers market, which is cheaper and better for the environment.

do you really determine what your life is by what stuff you buy? its irresponsibility that got us in the mess we are in today, the reason people are hurting so bad is they spent more money than they should have been spending, so yes, because the economy is down, you and everyone else should be spending closer to their budget, we still have to spend money, but not waste it. this is a easy place to trip a lot of budget fat. which is a problem for companies like Apple that ask for a very large premium.

Where do you get "unhealthy" food? hell like i just said, i eat most of my food from the farmers market (girlfriend is vegetarian... so i guess that pretty much makes me one too), we eat very healthy, we just cut back on stuff that isnt cost effect, less cheese, i often brew my own beer (which tastes better than most shelf beer) and we eat mostly veggies from the farmers market when there is a farmers market going on. past that we shop at local discount food stores that sell food that is slightly passed its "sell by" date. the store we mostly shop at specializes in organic veggie foods. and is the only place we get food that is Boxed/canned/already prepared. other than that we mostly just make the same 10-15 things, over and over again so we are constantly getting the same foods, this way we can buy them fresh, and enjoy them more, and eat more healthy.

As for electronics? i have a http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-t...?tag=mncol;lst which i purchased for $1100, as i waited for a huge sale.

i also own a 360 and a PS3, which i also got bundled equipment with and discounts through haggling. My PC is Gaming rig that i paid $1400 for 2 years ago, and still plays just about anything i want on the highest settings (save crysis).

My Mac has been used for years, to the point that the thing barely works anymore, and is barely chugging along (which is why im about end up having to use only a PC)

when i say that you need to watch your money, i say it in a relative manner. which would be obvious to anyone that wasnt backed into a corner because of their own stupid comments. i dont shop at a dollar store because that shit is unreliable and crap. but if i was making far less money, and needed some soap or something? sure i'd stop buy and pick some up to work with my budget.

Why would i buy walmart jeans when they will fall apart in 6 months of use, when i can afford to spend $5-10 more at old navy and have them last 2-3 years?

but hey, if when im making more money, i'll buy some things that are slightly more upscale, otherwise i wouldnt own an iPhone. but when times are tight, saving $1000+ on a computer that is just as capable as a macbook is a good way to trim the budget, so you can spend that stuff on other goods.

its not rocket science.

duh. thats business.

Wow someone is angryyyyyyyyyyyyy.


Starting weight: Macbook pro is 5.5 lbs

Dell xps studio 6.4 lbs

Display : 15.4-inch (diagonal) LED-backlit glossy widescreen display, 1440-by-900
resolution, Built-in iSight camera

Dell, Edge-to-Edge FullHD Widescreen 16.0 inch RGBLED LCD (1920x1080)
W/2.0 MP camera.

Seems to me you're also cherry picking to make your point. And cursing at someone who's making a valid point...stupidity doesn't begin to describe you.