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Microsoft's latest ad attacks Mac aesthetics, computing power - Page 5

post #161 of 521
4/5/09 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

If I understand the point you are trying to make, you might want to pick up a copy of, "Economics for Dummies." Market share is not tied to quality or performance due to a multitude of variables. Generally, market share is higher for the low to mid range quality and price tier, while the high end tier has the lower market share.

You don't have to have the higher volume sales to have the better product or to be profitable and successful.

Too true.

Market share has nothing to do with "better", etc.

Apple prices its products out of certain markets for a reason. And makes some of the difference up on margins, not volume. A Mac is a premium product. It's a narrower market at the top of the pyramid. Dell customers, please stay away.

Not everyone can afford an Apple product, yet they want the Apple experience. There are legions upon legions of PC users who would absolutely love to own a Mac. OS X has, and continues, to set the bar in terms of OS excellence. This has been an accepted reality for years.

Very often, common = cheap.

So, you're right.
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post #162 of 521
4/5/09 at 11:51am
The very existence of these ads is mysterious. Do Microsoft really believe that corporations worldwide refused to move to Vista because of Apple's advertising campaign? Why would these MS ads be seen as some sort of solution?

I think the drive is away from Microsoft, rather than toward Apple, and Apple just happen to be the guys that currently offer the best experience for people wanting to escape from Windows. For that reason, Microsoft's adverts are pointless, and Apple should avoid being satisfied with just being better than Microsoft.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #163 of 521
4/5/09 at 11:51am
FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.

Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.

PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.



PS: Yes, adding Kasper is a joke and the pic is meant to instigate a couple of the posters I have ignored.
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post #164 of 521
4/5/09 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

I am afraid it's totally FUD. Just to get the facts clear, I looked at all three of your cites - Gizmodo says 'BOM' costs (i.e., only the actual cost of material, it is neither the cost to make nor create them, as you suggest) may give Apple a 50% margin relative to sale price, CNET says 55%, and Intomobile implies it could be as high as 75%.

.

sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)

i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.

by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...

all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.
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post #165 of 521
4/5/09 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by parky View Post

And your point is?

Many cars have the same specs too, why buy a premium car over a cheap model?

Why BECAUSE IT IS THE ONE THAT YOU WANT.

You can always find something cheaper, does not mean you have to buy it.

Do you buy the cheapest of everything, do you own any brands? Look at yourself.

Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".
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post #166 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:00pm
What to do about the battery! Its the most important part of an electronic device, yet it has the slowest technological advances of the the industry. The best Apple can do with it is to change the shape to pack more into the 17". By comparision, cpu, memories, drives, monitor makes leaps and bounds. Battery life gets better only because of energy efficiency in other parts.
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post #167 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:00pm
I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.

I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost every time.

The HDX series used in this latest ad is an especially good value. Here in Canada, you can find a well equipped 16" HDX for $1100-1200. Apple simply cannot compete with that machine. Not on price, not on features. Apple's only trump card over HP is software. I'd gladly pay more to get OS X, but even if I slapped down another $600, I still could not find a Mac that comes even close to competing with the HDX.

My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.

Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.
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post #168 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.

yeah, this is good for all of the single post poeple, but they likely wont be back either. but those of us just trying to point out that Apple isnt 100% perfect (even though we all like it, why else would we be here?) then your going to be missing parts of the conversation. unless you want to because it bothers you too much... just seems a bit silly to me. ignoring other points of view does not = the facts disappearing.

of course im not sure what you point to this post is, im not saying you just want to put your fingers in your ears and scream...
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post #169 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing.

Chose User CP from the upper left of the forum, then chose Edit Ignore List from the left hand column and enter the names you wish one at a time.

PS: If anyone I have added or otherwise wishes to add me please to their ignore list, please feel free.

...

Phew! Thanks for reminding me. I assume ItalianKid and Teckstud are quite young and have somehow stumbled upon AppleInsider by accident. I have excluded them already.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #170 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4cam View Post

I agree that the new Macbook Pros look really good, but the best thing about the new macs for me is that they caused a major price drop of the old Macbook Pros on Amazon back in December 2008. I picked up a 15″ 2.5 GHz Macbook Pro with 512 MB NVidia video RAM for $1500 on Amazon after rebate. Dont get me wrong, $1500 still seems like a TON of money to spend on a laptop, but I dare you to match those specs for less on whatever OS. Of course I wasnt about to spend $700 more for the new version of MBP with the same specs either (plus I had to have a matte screen just personal preference).

Even on the current HW without a retail discount it's hard to beat Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.
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post #171 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nowayout11 View Post

Are these articles even necessary? It's like trolling for the flamebait traffic.

I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.

"There are some people that we choose not to serve"

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #172 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

I kind of agree with that. Writing articles about an MS ad just causes this site to be linked in from PC sites. My experience has been that as soon as MS fans start appearing, the tone gets really nasty and personal. This is also one of the reasons that I hope Apple don't get greedy about market share. I just don't want those people to start influencing the direction of the products.

"There are some people that we choose not to serve"

Just wait until a major new product from Apple arrives, then they will start coming out of the woodwork. Can't get a decent conversation going at all. It's like Digg around here.
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post #173 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmilinGoat View Post

sorry if i wasnt clear enough, im not saying that it has doubled its money for what it has cost to produce the iPhone (including manufacturing)

i was saying that as of today (the cost of producing the iPhone 3G has certainly dropped in the last 8 monhts) is even less than what was suggested that far back.

by "make" i meant when you take out advertising, Physical assembly, and shipping, the components are worth probably less than HALF of what the cost of purchasing one of the phones is. $600 for the 16GB version, half of that is $300, and it likely costs less than that for the components (according to said articles) and you know it doesnt take *that* much for production in China and shipping those small devices around the world...

all in all, they have a larger profit margin than most other devices on the market. reading back my intention of the post was not clear, sorry.

Appreciate your clarification, though!
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post #174 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this?

OS X is well worth the $900 extra dollars. The solidness and security of UNIX (and all the great open source software that comes with most Linux distros) with an awesome desktop. Sure I can't compile my kernel however I want, but I'll trade that for the Aqua GUI in comparison to the Gnome or KDE desktop (I have an Ubuntu distro as a VM, and while very good I would never use it as a primary because I rely on Adobe's Creative Suite which does not run on Linux).

I've owned a myriad of Windows machines: built from scratch beige boxes, Acer laptop (worst computer ever), Dell desktops and laptops, a Toshiba laptop (possibly the best pc I owned), a couple racked servers, and lastly a HP laptop. When I made the switch (basically when I found out about the beta of BootCamp) and have never looked back. My first Mac was a MBP. I now own a Mac Pro, and just recently added a G5 Xserve to be my testing and version control server at home.

Macs are not for everyone. A good friend of mine that is a .NET and Java developer will always be on Windows because the developer tools are robust for .NET. As a matter of fact, I don't want you or other Windows users to switch. Why? Because I'd prefer virus and malware people keep writing their viruses for Windows. If Macs reach a 'critical mass' you better believe that there would be Mac viruses. While Macs are secure, they are not impervious--viruses and malware HAVE been written for Macs. But since there isn't enough money in it because it is difficult to spread Mac viruses. Like real viruses, they need to reach a critical mass of infections to become widespread. Windows homogeneous networks spread worms like Conficker very efficiently--believe it or not many of the infected Conficker machines are on corporate networks. So please do me a favor and keep buying Windows machines.

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post #175 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kim chi View Post

ok just to set the record straight on the macbook pro 15's battery ... it pretty much sucks. i get 3.5 hours out of it if i'm lucky, with almost everything shut down, the discrete graphics turned off, and the screen only illuminated to 2 bars. i've never gotten over 4 hours in this configuration, even when the machine was new.


what macbook Pro? I've run mine with the integrated graphics, bluetooth off, WIFI on... screen half bright, using the internet and MS Word, and its lasted OVER 5 hours... 5:20 from the time i woke it up (wasnt even full to start, like 96%) to the time it was to 2% and saying better plug in or else... not sure whats wrong with yours!
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post #176 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple's higher-end merchandise when comparing on specs and build quality. But I think the argument is with many non-Mac users is that the average person doesn't really need all that power or durability or attention to build design. For instance, when you compare an iMac or Mac Mini to another machine that is vying for that same design type you find the Mac is cheaper all around, but most people are fine with the mini-towers that Dell, HP et al. sell. I wish more people would see that one size does not fit all. Welcome to the forums.

I definitely agree with Solipsism's statement that durability and quality of Mac's build is much higher than most if not all PC makers (especially Dell and HP). However I question the statement about power (* and to some extent flexibility [hardware & software]). I have a MacBook (for graphics design, taking notes in class, presentations, web development), but for things such as gaming, productivity, and programming, I still feel that PCs are probably the better option as I have a wider capacity to do upgrades and have access to a wider array of software.

Ultimately it is down to what you want to do with the system. Mac has by far the better list of graphics tools (both 2D and 3D) and in general better screens and less compatibility issues (because of a smaller list of certified hardware). Whereas PC is lower end product that is like a jack of all trades. You can't compare a specialized/niche product such as Mac directly to that of the PC and expect a fair comparison.

>> Regarding Maxhomie's attack [in pg 3]:

"Welcome to a bunch of trolls that have turned this place into CNET? I don't post much, because I usually enjoy the exchanges between the more experienced and knowledgeable members."

I find it really amusing how fanboism from Mac's side is making the rest of us Mac users look like a bunch of hypocrites. Stop bashing other people if they have their own opinion, just show them "where" they were wrong and why Mac is a better product. Doing personal offense (* especially to PC elitists) just shows how immature you are.
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post #177 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:56pm
Your assessment of hardware is fair. Apple hardware is PC hardware since the switch to Intel. The difference is OS X. It means not spending hours getting your machine fixed after OS and virus updates. It means working well with Windows and especially Linux machines on your network. Easily sharing a printer when Windows won't. It means a a leaner OS that runs faster and is more stable with less resources. Running the whole world of X windows and Windows apps side by side with OS X apps. It is A Better Mousetrap.

After using Windows for 20 years, and Linux for 12, I feel the extra money is well worth it. If you like to tinker with hardware and the OS, I'd try Slackware Linux. At least then, it is by choice! This kind of stuff can be very fun, but it stinks when you are trying to fix Windows and MS is no help.


Quote:
Originally Posted by randomdude View Post

*sound of me repeatedly hitting my head on desk*
Okay, whoever made that ad needs to be fired. Now. What the hell is MS thinking? God.

Anyways, I saw a lot of people talking about benchmark comparisons between macs and PCs, so I decided to see for myself.

I looked at a computer on Apple.com and customized it a bit.
A 15-inch Macbook Pro with
  • 2.4GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
  • 4GB 1066MHz DDR3 SDRAM (2 Dimms)
  • 250GB Serial ATA HDD @ 5400rpm
  • 8x optical disc drive (DVD±R DL/DVD±RW/CD-RW)
  • NVIDIA GeForce 9400M + 9600M GT graphics card with 256MB dedicated video memory
costs $2099.00.

I then went to dell.com and looked at a computer there, and customized it a bit.

A 16-inch Dell Studio XPS 16 with
  • Intel® Core 2 Duo T9800 (6MB cache/2.93GHz/1066Mhz FSB)
  • Genuine Windows Vista® Home Premium Edition SP1, 64-bit (yes, it really can handle the next entry...)
  • 5GB DDR3 SDRAM at 1067MHz (2 Dimms)
  • 320GB Serial ATA HDD @ 7200rpm
  • 8X optical drive (DVD+/- R/RW CD-RW)
  • ATI Mobility RADEON® HD 3670 graphics card with 512MB dedicated video memory
costs $1,949.00.

I am not certain about battery life. As far as I could tell, Apple's website did not mention anything about the computer's battery life, so I'm going to guess the at 3-5 hours from the people below. The Dell ships with a six-cell battery (whatever that means), with an option to add an additional 9-cell battery for $80. (The computer has one battery port, so you would have to switch batteries to change them). In the past, Dell called the 9-cell battery an "85whr" and I think the the 6-cell was a "65whr". They did not elaborate on what "whr" is, so maybe someone can tell me?

The rest of the specifications (such as backlit keyboard, webcam, physical dimensions, weight, included software/accessories, etc.) were either not easily comparable, or merely matters of personal preference, so I purposely did not include them.

Essentially, my point is, for $150.00 less, you are getting
  • A processor that is 0.5GHz faster
  • An extra GB of RAM (and the same type of RAM as the Macbook, too, so you have nothing there like you did with MS's shitty commercial)
  • HDD that is 70GB larger and 1.5 times as fast
  • Graphics card which has twice as much memory.

A computer with comparable specifications (actually, essentially identical) to the Macbook mentioned above is a (very slightly modified) Studio XPS 13. If the graphics card is upgraded to the GeForce 9500M, comparable to the one that the Macbook has, this model costs $1,229. (the processor and RAM are the same by default; the Dell has a slightly (inconsequentially, IMHO) larger HDD)

Why on earth would I want to spend nine hundred dollars extra to get identical specifications? What does a Macintosh have that could possibly justify this? And don't tell me that Macs are more reliable. They may be, but I have had a Dell laptop for three and a half years, and I have had zero problems with the hardware.
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post #178 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

How the hell do you even know that - were you inside Bill Gates head? or are you referring to a movie with Noah Wyle as Steve Jobs? And why would a Mac "send him into a tizzy"- I don't recall Gates and Microsoft making a computer- ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

I'm surprised by the criticism of this ad. The Lauren one was pretty stupid, but this one is right on the money, IMO.

I'd rather stab out my eyes with knitting needles than use Windows, but there is no doubt whatsoever that HP is beating the daylights out of Apple with regards to the hardware they offer. More features, nicer looking boxes, using the same parts as Apple, made in the same factory, for a fraction of the cost. I love Apple's software (the OS, the integrated applications, etc), but I would much rather have HP's hardware almost

My vetch is not really with the price anyway. I don't mind paying more to get a Mac. My criticism is with Apple's limited hardware choices. I want a consumer laptop with firewire, a dedicated graphics card, a matte screen, a proper extended keyboard, express card and memory card slots, and HDMI out. Apple can't do that at any price.

Of course, what's still bad about this ad from MS' standpoint, is that it is an ad for HP
hardware, and not for Windows. Even if someone found the HP laptop they liked, they still could just put a different OS on it.

Nicef looking boxes, pass me what you smoking.
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post #179 of 521
4/5/09 at 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kunlimited View Post

Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".

So what if he wants to pay for a brand, the majority of the world pays for brands which is why companies with a higher brand value than others can charge, it sucks for those who can't afford one to complain but thats life.
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post #180 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kunlimited View Post

Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".

His argument makes total sense, unfortunately yours is nonsense.

You alone can decide what you want to buy and whether you want to spend more or less money on something. Some people spend crazy amounts of money on clothes but would never spend more than the minimum on a car.

What does it matter whether Dell is a large or small company? As for best value? It all depends on what you mean by that. Many people would say the design of the Mac, the lack of viruses and all the software that the Mac comes with constitute value.

If you're not "some idiot who pay $900 extra buck just for the brand" does that mean you're just an idiot then? lol
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post #181 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:09pm
Do people actually believe a commercial in which Microsoft pays a person for buying a windows based laptop. When I decided to buy a Mac, I walked into an Apple store for a few hours and used one.
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post #182 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2kunlimited View Post

Your argument is so ridiculous that i don't know where to begin.
Brand??? LOL. Is that all you got? Dell is one of if not the biggest computer maker in the world. And "cheap"??? Are you kidding me??Their hardware are practically identical-only apple is charging you an arm and a leg for them. And yeah, when it comes to computer electronics I do look for the best value for my money. I'm not some idiot who pay $900
extra buck just for "the brand".

If it is nearly identical is it not, by definition, different? What are the these differences? Have you accounted for the differences that account for the differences in cost which relate to the differences in price? Did you consider the weight, the build quality, the durability, the technical support? Did you also consider the full aspect of the components or just superficially look at them and declare them the same? As in, both have same size display they must be the same and both have same speed processor they must be the same? By your argument salt water should be just as good for as fresh water as they are nearly identical.
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post #183 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:22pm
The economy has just about everyone thinking cheap is the way to go.

No amount of nitpicking each product advantages will matter.

The ad is effective and will definitely take away a huge amount of sales for Apple products. The message that Apple is "expensive" is clear. That resonates to potential buyers.

The PC is cheap, it works and can do just about everything the more expensive Mac can do.

Its a clear straight message that resonates with the current economy.

Microsoft has hit a home run with this one. It's cheap, its good enough and hundreds of dollars less than the Mac.
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post #184 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The ad is effective and will definitely take away a huge amount of sales for Apple products. The message that Apple is "expensive" is clear. That resonates to potential buyers.

I think you're a bit too confident in your crystal ball gazing.

Wait until sale figures for the next few months roll in. Wait until Apple announces its next quarter earnings.

Your assumptions about what resonates with consumers don't apply to everyone, certainly not me.

Don't assume the market as a whole reflects YOU. It doesn't.

And you're forgetting that Apple targets the PREMIUM end of the market. The segment that continues to enjoy steady employment and higher than average disposable income. The extent to which that segment will shrink, if at all, remains to be seen. There will be some people who've just been bumped down to a lower income bracket. But it's still very early to tell.

I'm not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is that your assumptions are premature.
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post #185 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:31pm
Well here's an over reaction if ever I saw one. While I imagine that you think your wisdom is more than enough for this forum, perhaps that just isn't so. Maybe some people have been reading Appleinsider and its forums for years. But maybe they haven't seen anything worth commenting on, as yet. In any case, what's the point of whining about the fact that several people have signed up recently? Or to have taken the time to write them all down!

Then again, maybe you're right and no one new should every sign up again - you guys have it covered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxhomie View Post

Welcome to a bunch of trolls that have turned this place into CNET? I don't post much, because I usually enjoy the exchanges between the more experienced and knowledgeable members.

However, you knew this was going to turn into flamebait. Just look at all the people who just signed up to give us their "wisdom"... a total infestation of people decrying "fanboys" and defending the honor of Microsoft and Linux and Ubuntu. (in fairness, some people who joined did so to defend Apple, but really -- this is the sort of thing that makes you want to contribute to a forum?)

I guess this site needed the traffic.


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post #186 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I think you're a bit too confident in your crystal ball gazing.

Wait until sale figures for the next few months roll in. Wait until Apple announces its next quarter earnings.

Your assumptions about what resonates with consumers don't apply to everyone, certainly not me.

Don't assume the market as a whole reflects YOU. It doesn't.

And you're forgetting that Apple targets the PREMIUM end of the market. The segment that continues to enjoy steady employment and higher than average disposable income. The extent to which that segment will shrink, if at all, remains to be seen. There will be some people who've just been bumped down to a lower income bracket. But it's still very early to tell.

I'm not saying you're wrong, all I'm saying is that your assumptions are premature.

I think I'm correct. I'm a Mac user myself. I will save money to buy a Mac in the future. I just bought a late 08 MBP 2.5ghz myself, iWork, iLife 09. I'd rather wait to save up than buy a PC/Windows box.

The last 3 users I have worked with will not buy a Mac. Despite every nitpicking advantage I have poured over their heads, they cannot justify 2000 for a MBP to a 1000 dollar PC/Windows box that can do almost everything the MBP can. Sure not as elegant, or intuitively but their main concern was dollars. This economic environment cannot justify the purchase of a Mac vs a PC/Windows.

Also Microsoft doesn't have to mention Windows ( afraid of Vista reputation), every PC box has Windows so its a sale for MS.
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post #187 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

FYI: You can easily block the new trolls and tiresome lot on this forum. They really do take away from the flow and keep, either by choice of from a lack of active gray matter, the conversation from progressing....]

Well, I'll be damned! I didn't know about this feature. Whenever I see the discussion reduced to the level of cnet comments I just switch off. Specially if it is a Mac v PC discussion reduced to expletives and profanities. I use both daily, don't get me wrong, but when they are used as arguments it is the end. I made it about 8 post deep in this thread and just switched off. I popped back in today and went straight to the end only to receive this one piece of invaluable information. Thanks.
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post #188 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:35pm
By the way, Apple uses better parts in general for things like: hard disks, LCD screens, transformers, cabling, etc. Look it up.

Aluminum, glass, and better materials in general obviously cost more. That cost is also passed on to the consumer.
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
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http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1713.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1685.jpg
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/1704.gif
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post #189 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by voodooru View Post

LOL!!!

you asked the sales guy why does one MacbookAir have flash and another a regular HD? I'm not sure who the dummy is? you can't be serious with that question.

3 year old battery - get a grip, batteries don't last forever, they lose power over time.


yeeeesh!


Well, excuse me if I'm not using the right "vernacular."
I am, after all, just a dumb consumer.

One DOES have a "hard drive," while another one doesn't. Whatever it has, beats me. That's all I can tell you.
And the "professional" mac dealer, who we like to imagine should know his stuff, had NO idea how to answer my question. A valid question, regardless of my ineptness at not being cool enough to know "Mac talk."

My 4 year old Dell Inspiron still manages to crank out 45 minutes on battery, BTW.

Go back to your Fanboy cave, jerk.
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post #190 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

By the way, Apple uses better parts in general for things like: hard disks, LCD screens, transformers, cabling, etc. Look it up.

Aluminum, glass, and better materials in general obviously cost more. That cost is also passed on to the consumer.

Great advantages, but it doesn't matter. It will never be mentioned on the ad. The only thing that rings a huge bell to potential viewers/buyers is the price and the seemingly bigger spec numbers on the product. For some who need a new computer or upgrade, this is good enough than the pricier Mac.
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post #191 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel3700 View Post

Well here's an over reaction if ever I saw one. While I imagine that you think your wisdom is more than enough for this forum, perhaps that just isn't so. Maybe some people have been reading Appleinsider and its forums for years. But maybe they haven't seen anything worth commenting on, as yet. In any case, what's the point of whining about the fact that several people have signed up recently? Or to have taken the time to write them all down!

Then again, maybe you're right and no one new should every sign up again - you guys have it covered.

How's this for troll talk:
Tais toi, petite connard.
Look it up, you'll like it
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post #192 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

I wouldn't go that far. Out of the 15 or so people on the floor there is usually only 2 of them that know anything beyond iPhone, iPod, iLife, and OS X. The one person who could answer my program is always either on break, off for the day, or has a 2 hour line of people waiting to see him/her. I find most people there to be as equally annoying as at any CompUSA or BestBuy.

I fully agree with this. I won't go in to talk to Genius without and appointment. Actually I generally hate the Apple Store experience. There are too many people milling around for some sort of social experience and not really there to buy a product. I have on several occasions gone in to buy a specific product and stood around waiting several minutes to get someone to cash me out--the floor people are busy wasting time on people that have no intention of buying.

27" iMac 2.93GHz | 17" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz | Mac Mini Server 2.5Ghz
16GB iPhone 4S | 16GB iPad (1st gen) | AppleTV
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27" iMac 2.93GHz | 17" MacBook Pro 2.8GHz | Mac Mini Server 2.5Ghz
16GB iPhone 4S | 16GB iPad (1st gen) | AppleTV
www.heavyimages.com

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post #193 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydevelopment View Post

I fully agree with this. I won't go in to talk to Genius without and appointment. Actually I generally hate the Apple Store experience. There are too many people milling around for some sort of social experience and not really there to buy a product. I have on several occasions gone in to buy a specific product and stood around waiting several minutes to get someone to cash me out--the floor people are busy wasting time on people that have no intention of buying.

Its naive to think they have no intention of buying and only milling around the Apple store for social status. Each and every one of those people are using and playing with the products.

They may not buy it now, but they walk away with the knowledge and actual hands on use of the devices. Weather its a MacBook and OSX, iPods and more significantly, iPhone/iPod Touch UI. These potential buyers can now check other competitors and realize that their products are vastly inferior, since these potential buyers now have the actual usage of the Apple products to compare with in their minds.
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post #194 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofino View Post

Mac OSX

Mac OSX is worth nine hundred fucking dollars? Get real.
I could by an entire computer for that much money.
So I get two computers with Windows, you get one with OSX, and you are honestly telling me that you think you got a better deal? What the hell is wrong with you?
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post #195 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

Great advantages, but it doesn't matter. It will never be mentioned on the ad. The only thing that rings a huge bell to potential viewers/buyers is the price and the seemingly bigger spec numbers on the product. For some who need a new computer or upgrade, this is good enough than the pricier Mac.

That is true, but don't the bargain shoppers already know that no Apple product will not fit their budgetary requirements? It seems to me instead of pointing out the obvious and seemingly focusing in on their built-in fanbase that they should do what Apple did with the "Get A Mac" ads and focus on those that aren't current customers. How they would do that I have no clue. \
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #196 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomdude View Post

Mac OSX is worth nine hundred fucking dollars? Get real.
I could by an entire computer for that much money.
So I get two computers with Windows, you get one with OSX, and you are honestly telling me that you think you got a better deal? What the hell is wrong with you?

Here is proof right in front of us.

MS knows that, cheap and good enough will sell. This is the mentality that MS is trying to capture with the ads. If only these users actually visit an Apple store to compare it may change, but with huge dollars in difference portrayed on the ad, these users will say forget it. They'll think like this person above who has no clue on why OSX and Apple hardware is vastly superior than the cheap Windows/PC box.
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post #197 of 521
4/5/09 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

I think I'm correct. I'm a Mac user myself. I will save money to buy a Mac in the future. I just bought a late 08 MBP 2.5ghz myself, iWork, iLife 09. I'd rather wait to save up than buy a PC/Windows box.

The last 3 users I have worked with will not buy a Mac. Despite every nitpicking advantage I have poured over their heads, they cannot justify 2000 for a MBP to a 1000 dollar PC/Windows box that can do almost everything the MBP can. Sure not as elegant, or intuitively but their main concern was dollars. This economic environment cannot justify the purchase of a Mac vs a PC/Windows.

Also Microsoft doesn't have to mention Windows ( afraid of Vista reputation), every PC box has Windows so its a sale for MS.

i agree with you, you are correct. im a half-mac person half-PC person, more mac for personal computing (also i use a windows system for games)

however i want/need a new Mac, mine is old, and it is literally falling apart, as well built as they look, when you actually use one for a lot of years, they hold up about as well as any other big name laptop. and to be honest ive had to bring my mac into the apple store 3 times... but its still a very high quality product, and there is something about the feel of a product being solid that really is good. also the newer unibody ones should prove to be far more reliable than anything else on the market.

but to the point, i really want to replace my mac, but there is a problem, i want a desktop, not a laptop. secondly i want an all-in-one, which at face value isnt a problem. but Apple has fallen behind in this.

i WANT an iMac, but with todays economy, i think im going to end up with something else. most likely the new Dell All-in-one that is releasing this month or next. the reason? cost. no other reason, there is a very large difference when spending teh same amount of money... worth $700+ in differences. in todays world, thats huge.

plus the dell has a multipoint glass touchscreen (similar to the touchscreen on the iPhone)

anyway, im waiting as long as possible, but if apple doesnt blow us away soon with a decent deal, and a new design that can handle more advanced components, then i'll be forced to get a windows 7 based all-in-one... which i really do not want to do.

thats one sale right there. i would spend $300 more on a comparative apple all-in-one. i think thats a fair amount to ask, not $700+.
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post #198 of 521
4/5/09 at 2:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by troyallen23 View Post

Do people actually believe a commercial in which Microsoft pays a person for buying a windows based laptop. When I decided to buy a Mac, I walked into an Apple store for a few hours and used one.

What leaves me scratching my head is why Microsoft bothers to mention Apple at all in their ads. It makes no sense. Conventional marketing usually dictates that between 2 products, if one traditionally has a much higher sales volume than another, the higher volume seller does not mention the lesser volume seller in their ads. That only "legitimizes" the threat to "#1" posed by "#2." Number 2, however can successfully position themselves as the "challenger" without damaging the perception of them held by their targeted market. Notice there is a "take the Pepsi taste challenge" but there is no "take the Coke taste challenge."

In other words, "challenger" and "contender" can only be a positive perception for number 2. David by calling out Goliath, can be seen in a positive light. On the other hand, number 1 comes off as weak by challenging number 2, and elevates number 2's status. Goliath challenging David risks coming off as a scared bully.

Microsoft would do better to focus on turning around the negatives associated with their products by actually improving them or at least the perception of them and never acknowledging that Apple even exists. Especially since Apple will never have to be number 1 to remain profitable, but MS has positioned itself to need the number 1 spot as part of it's success.

Go figure. Right now IMO the best "switcher" ad for going from Windows to Mac is MS's own commercials.
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post #199 of 521
4/5/09 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by slapppy View Post

The economy has just about everyone thinking cheap is the way to go.

No amount of nitpicking each product advantages will matter.

The ad is effective and will definitely take away a huge amount of sales for Apple products. The message that Apple is "expensive" is clear. That resonates to potential buyers.

The PC is cheap, it works and can do just about everything the more expensive Mac can do.

Its a clear straight message that resonates with the current economy.

Microsoft has hit a home run with this one. It's cheap, its good enough and hundreds of dollars less than the Mac.

What a useless argument, why don't you line up at a foodbank instead of buying food, after all it's cheaper and everone is thinking cheap these days.
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post #200 of 521
4/5/09 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That is true, but don't the bargain shoppers already know that no Apple product will not fit their budgetary requirements? It seems to me instead of pointing out the obvious and seemingly focusing in on their built-in fanbase that they should do what Apple did with the "Get A Mac" ads and focus on those that aren't current customers. How they would do that I have no clue. \

The Apple fanbase is hurting in this economy too.

If your a Mac user with an older Mac and just lost your job or have a fear of losing your job, had your wages cut, and you need a new computer, which will you buy?
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