Microsoft's latest ad attacks Mac aesthetics, computing power - Page 7

Your posts as well as MANY others are the reason I created an account.

Consumer choice is why "M$" will be around for a long long time. Not all of us think we will be movie producer the second we buy a Mac.

Most PC users are running programs that Mac simply doesn't have. I.E.- Anything from Autodesk. You know, the programs that probably designed the building you're sitting in.

It is only by comparing everything, and by that I mean EVERY sINGLE THING, that you can possibly compare a Mac and a PC.

Then there is software, and M$ sucks big time here. That is why they are advertising HP: they can't compete with Apple on the software.

I'm not sure how people will take this. I'm completely aware that the people MS has been putting in these commercials are not "savvy" on any level. I'm also aware that MS has been targeting laptops and not PCs. This being said, any computer builder will tell you that you can reach higher specs with a PC than you can with a MAC. Just because these two people don't know what they are buying doesn't mean there isn't quality product out there. Apple makes a great product for people who don't know anything about computers. Apple makes a great product for the type of person MS is trying to portray in these commercials.

The reality though.... Apple is a package, and a very nice one at that. PCs are more dynamic and fluid. They can run Linux or Windows or yes...... even Leopard if hacked correctly(I know you all hate me now).

Bottom line- PCs are better if you know what your doing and need power and versatility. MACs are great for beginners and people who want something that never has issues. Honestly to argue this point is to show you don't get it. They are both great for different purposes...but I say Hackintosh all the way.

Check your history. Apple was perfectly fine until a Ballmer-like mind sick person named Sculley managed to throw Jobs out of the play. Windows came, Apple nearly died, and when Jobs returned, Apple started to turn the tables.

Apple will beat M$. Just wait.

Besides, by your logic a random Ford would be better than a BWM due to its greater market share.

No gpu on a current macbook?
Do tell.
As for the screen, sure - you can make the macbook more readble, just lower the resolution effectively loweing the ppi and making it more "readable".

ExpressCard? Not sure I ever met anyone who actually used it. HDMI? Adapter. Blu-Ray? He didn't get it on the HP. For what? So you can watch an HD movie on your 16" screen? You'll like it a lot more on an LCD TV for better value.

One other thing. MACS are PCs that run leopard. MACs essentially have been PCs ever since INTEL came on board(AMD is better for the price). That coupled with the fact that you can run Leopard on a PC(albeit a proper configuration) just means that MAC is essentially a mid range PC that looks really cool and runs a very nice operating system. It's still a PC though. You guys love a brand. It's a great brand but it's still a brand.

Autodesk actually does quite a great deal more than that. But, you know what their IT department has been pushing on non-programmers? Macs, with VMWare Fusion. W

I myself am an architect, and at one firm we used Mac Pros. Autodesk's software is frustrating enough without XP, and it was so much better to handle every other office function in OS X. Some firms use ArchiCAD, which is native and only slightly inferior to Revit. So, yeah, nice shame trip.

I am a staunch PC user, and I don't agree with this ad. It's total marketing BS to me. It's spec-sheet smoke-and-mirrors.

The next ad will be from an on-the-go user who's looking for an ultra portable. They will compare a netbook to a Macbook Air. (Spoiler: The netbook wins.)

- N

My guess is - every new ad from this series will address different user profile, and each will make comparison with Macs regarding that user profile needs. While it will be easy to make a point for gamers, maybe CAD/3D animation users, some/most of the others will be based on price and Apple's limited choice of hardware. Safe bet.

Also, there are a lot of astroturfers out there. Great entertainment.

Once again I dunno why Apple Insider keep pushing its misleading and utterly false "counter-propaganda", and its audience keep lying to themselves/being in denial, what's the point? See kpluck, randomdude post, etc...



Oh jeez, epic fail...
Your sentence is completely false, I can only guess that you have mistakenly interchanged the two names, factually starting on the hardware compatibility side...
E.g.: just check the "awesome" hardware compatibility list over http://wiki.osx86project.org/wiki/index.php/HCL_10.5.6 just to have OSX running...
Dunno, in everybody else reality, Windows is maybe compatible with x100 or x1000 more hardware... Yep it is of this scale.

just so you know, BMW's along with most european cars, are some of the worst cars in reliability. far behind that of american cars, and even further behind that of Japanese cars.

why is it that this site has so many people that dont understand cars, using analogies with cars?

Of course the software doesn't matter?

It might be smart for Microsoft to attack Apple on price. Apple lost it's market domination to the PC because the PC was perceived as cheaper. If Microsoft can create that perception, it should help Microsoft sale, just like the untrue perception that Walmart is cheaper then Target on the same products that resulted from Target's slick ads.

Folks, all this arguing about hardware specs is besides the point.. Hardware is not the issue as to why people buy a Mac vs. a PC. People switching from PC to Mac are doing so because they are tired of hassling with Windows and it's shortcomings.

People buy a Mac for the user experience, plain and simple. And no matter how hard MS tries to compete with prices and specs on paper, they simply can not match the user experience of using a Mac.. OSX and the integration of the iLife apps and Apple's mobile devices is unmatched by anyone.

So while you're bitching about prices and specs, show me one example of where Microsoft have created a better user experience than Apple in ANY of the software they make..

That's right, there isn't one..

No, no it's not. It's included as part of your Mac purchase, but any major updates require payment. It's reasonably priced, partly because it's there to get you to use Macs which means you are buying their machines. iTunes was once part of iLife, which made no sense to me since it was so easily downloadable, but that does not make iLife free.



OOo is free and it's okay for a free app but it is not a great solution for any heavy work. You are also correct that there are many free apps available, but free does not always mean better, in fact it usually means worse for the average person as there is no accountability. Of course there are free apps that are great and have good support but they supported by other things like HW sales, so they aren't really free.


I can't believe that someone would think that is a good question. They are different types of drives. if you need to explain the pros and cons of SSDs and HDDs I will more than happy to.


How many cycles does the battery have? Have you reset the battery? Was it on the recall list? These are things that I would have posted about my iBook battery before complaining that it on got a 10 minute charge. It might jsut be wear and tear, it might be part of a larger issue or it just might a flux. Apple, like almost almost all PC vendors doesn't produce its batteries, but it does warranty them. I've had a couple bad batteries over the years and they replaced them without question after I pointed out that they were bad, even well after my machine warranty was up. You should have Google the issue when you first noticed it.

You're joking, right? Ever heard of Parallels and VMware? The firm I work at runs AutoCAD and Revit via Parallels, and it is every bit as fast and stable as running it on a PC (Until working at this firm I have only used PCs at work, so I have plenty of cross-platform experience). And from a networking standpoint, the macs are easier to deal with, especially with Time Capsule running. We all have iMacs, and they work just fine.

As for PCs running software I use, I have yet to see a Windows machine run Logic, so I have no use for them outside of the office.


Honestly, the first thing that came to mind when this campaign started was political ads. That's really what it feels like. Personally, if anything I would hope we get a non-partisan fact check site, much like factcheck.org, to go through apple and MS's commercials, if for anything just to shut up the rabid fanboys.

That being said, I find it weird that the commercials never even mention the OS at all? Seems like an odd approach. And this is all from a company that used to laugh at the thought that Apple was a serious threat. Even if MS wins, it still looks uneasy and a little pathetic.

That being said, has anyone else noticed that they are dropping this campaign right in the middle of Conflicker madness?

That is the one with LCD with the highest color gamut of any display that Anandtech.com has tested (to date). Nice machine. Screen, graphics card and audio card should be better than 15" Macbook Pro. Battery is not stellar, but still - great package.

http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.aspx?i=3540

Well, not every user browses the Internet searching for info on SSD...

On the other hand, sales guy should know; hype is Apple salesmen are much higher skilled than average Fry/Best Buy salesmen, but if guy could not answer that question...

Actually if Apple wanted to compete seriously with windows and start making serious margins they would release OSX for "PC".

I bet you some day it will happen(when they aren't making any money on the hardware end). There's no reason with a few tweaks from Apple it shouldn't run fine on any computer.

All they have to do is make it's compatibility better with AMD and accept support for IDE hard drives..... There obviously is more to it but nothing that couldn't be hammered out in a week.

Well... it is not like Macs come with all the software you need. You still need some kind of Office (word processing at least) on both platforms. Many people here in forums stated they did not use iLife as they had higher requirements than home video/photo editing, so they went for Lightroom/Aperture/... and Final Cut/Premiere/... straight away. Having some software included is good starting point (or even complete solution for some) but hardly done deal for everyone.

With Open Office, Picasa... available for free, impact of included software is - from my point of view - even less significant. But I do agree point is still there, to some extend.

This is an extremely old argument, one that has been beaten to death, we've been over it a million times. There are many reasons why this would be a money loosing idea for Apple.

Did you really think you were the first to think of this?

i would be very happy if they did this.

if they did this i would 1. not have to buy an overpriced all-in-one just to get OSX 2. would give MS a lot more competition/open peoples minds that there is more than just windows out there.

Not at all Tenobell, but I feel like alot of folks here are arguing on feeling as opposed to the reality of what they are arguing. They will someday release it as a standalone OS. As they continue to make the shift more towards having the innards of every other type of computer it's a nice backup plan for the day people realize MACs aren't special in any way outside the OS.

I don't think you have spent any significant time educating yourself on DDR2 vs DDR3 performance; otherwise, you would skip on that part.

1) You don't have to buy an AIO to get OS X.

2) Having a higher marketshare does not equal more net profit.

You fail to see that supporting any and every HW option is not a simple task. It's one that MS still, with it's vast funds and long history of trying still hasn't gotten right. Remember the lack of driver support with XP x64 and Vista when they launched? You also fail to see that Apple would have to sell many more copies of the OS X to equal the cost of one Mac or that Apple is, in regards to it's financial focus, a hardware company competing with higher-end PCs, not with MS.

I disagree. Hardware compatibility is an issue for everyone, but honestly if MS can do it Apple could do it to. There would be HW companies knocking down Apples doors to get support for their product. We aren't talking about Linux here kids. Oh wait I forgot we basically are. My bad.

lol, I actually like Linux a lot. Was a cheap shot.

What innards are so foreign to Apple that they can't release a standalone version now? What innards would have to be changed in order for them to do so? I think you are looking at the Intel processor, not understanding the rest of the ecosystem that Apple creates and have it all backwards. Macs are special in that the OS is built around a very specific set of HW. Anyone can use this same basic HW, but that doesn't make it a Mac or give it the capability or running like a Mac. For your dream to come to fruition HW types would have to become greatly minimized, but there seems to be more and more popping up every day and new innovations sprouting up, which is why you have it backwards. Plus, there are many things you just can't do without specifically working with melding the OS with the HW to create a better UI and better user experience.

I do. as well as many others. Saving on my new PC (compared to what I would pay for equally spec-ed Mac) saves me money for new digital/video camera. Or new LCD TV. even if I have a lot of money to spend, I always have a long list of things I want to spend money at. It is not just a computer.


Question has other side. Why didn't much more of us dump PC and go Mac..? Obviously, much more people still see better value in PC. Don't you agree..?


I don't think that really is Microsoft intention. I think whole MS campaign is more about answering to funny but annoying Mac guy - PC guy ads apple was using for ages to boost it's sales. If mosquito keeps buzzing around your ears, you will eventually go for a way to whack it hard and silent it.


Different agendas, different methods. Toyota sells more cars here in NZ than any other brand. Maybe even more than all other Japanese brands together. And they advertise with slogans like "Toyota - ordinary people", showing completely normal, everyday people from 16-year-old-teens to grandmas driving various Toyota models.

And they sell even more.

If Microsoft had half a brain, they would compare a netbook or mid-tower to apple's offerings. These are the area where apple doesn't compete.

This campaign is better than sienfeld, but I doubt it will last significantly longer.

You seem to be confusing the ability to do something with the desire to do it. I'm sure Ruth Chris' Steak House could do turkey dinners with all the fixins' really well if they tried, but that doesn't mean that they should. This notion that because a company could do it if they choose to means that they should be doing it is just crazy. Apple could sell an iPod Shuffle with a 1 line monochrome display like iRiver does, but does that mean that they should it? Seriously, what happened to having a free market?

While i will agree its all subjective what you feel is best for you and your needs. HP is not using the exact same parts as Apple nor are their machines made in the same factories.

From a design standpoint that HP is thicker and heavier than Apple's notebooks. Its made of plastic snapped together, Apple's notebooks are made from a single block of aluminum.

Help me appreciate the OS X user experience.

I'm serious.

I created a hackintosh, but after a few days, I just reverted to XP as my primary OS. Everything I could do on a Mac, I could do on a PC. I tried to like OS X. I really really REALLY tried. It wasn't bad, but it didn't offer enough extra to learn the ins-and-outs of another OS.

I don't know what I did wrong. Did I miss the Kool-Aid tray or something?

EDIT: I still have OS X Leopard installed. I'm willing to give it another go if someone can convince/convert me.

solipsism,

Youre absolutely right. Theres no reason they can't do it now. Innards might have been a poor choice of words but.... Come on, your really think that OSX is any more optimized for it's hardware than a DELL DIMENSION is for windows? I mean, yes Apple does a good job of giving the customer the proper hardware to run their OS but HP and Dell also have computers perfectly suited to run windows. There isn't any true melding of the HW and software for MAC. It's the same process the windows programmers go through. It's a descent machine but let's not think it's the best thing out there. Any quality PC running a Linux Distro will run better than a MAC.

sorry but nix on all of them.

why? because it would be Apple stooping to Microsoft games. the "I"m a mac" ads weren't telling anything that wasn't true (which is why Gates didn't win a fortune in slander damages). and now they have moved on to a new focus. it seems weird that they are basically using the iphone/touch as a 'gateway drug' but it is something that works with a PC. and once folks take that first step many will at least come back for a look. so it works.

if they start doing "Lauren" ads or "I'm a Mac and I"m 4" they will just be copying Microsoft.

then again, I just chaperoned 20 first graders on a 'field trip' to an Apple Store where they got to have an exclusive class on making iphoto slideshows. and they do workshops for various topics and ages throughout the week etc. While we were wrapping up and getting ready to take the kids back to school I actually heard a sales person tell a couple they should come to the basic workshop to see what the whole operating system looks like before they decide if they really want to switch. I thought that was brilliant.

oh and someone asked who was making these microsoft ads. I know that about a year ago it was Crispin Porter and Bogusky, who have never really impressed me

That isn't true, even the new Ubuntu build, that is copying OS X' ease of use, is still a far cry from being a simple machine to use. If you don't believe me give the most techtarded person you know a Mac, Windows and Linux machine to use, then have them install the OS from scratch and then do a bunch of common tasks that PC users do. I bet I know which one will be dead last.

You are looking at Apple's Mac platform the wrong way. You are looking at Apple as an OS maker that builds their HW around it, not as a PC vendor that is differentiating itself by making its own OS. There is no benefit to Apple for selling its OS to other vendors. They gain marketshare but lose everything else in the process. There is absolutely nothing worthwhile about such an endeavor.

"where he can easily spend several hundred dollars just trying to match the features and usability of the free iLife and Mac OS X tools Apple bundles with the MacBook. "

Uh, ever heard of open source? You name 1 piece of software that comes with OSX or Windows and I'll find a piece of open source software that _functions_ just as well.

You make comments like Kool-Aid tray and you want people to think your query is serious and not just trolling? Hmm...

Windows can do the same basic things as a Mac, if you thought that it was somehow a magical unicorn you were mistaken. The difference in how it can save you steps to doing the same tasks, but looking for the "Mac experience" on a hackintosh isn't going to cut it. I've built plenty of machines from OSx86. Not one was close enough to the real thing to be a replacement. Even the differences in the keyboards used makes a difference.

My recommendation to you is to still with Windows.

solipsism,

No argument there, the newbie would find mac easier to use. Perhaps your right that I'm looking at the model backwards but I still think the end product is the same. I meant it literally runs better. Not easier necessarily to use. If you ever get an opportunity to try Enlightenment, or any E17 distro you will see that Linux isn't at the point where I'd recommend it to the average user but it's getting there.

I find the iPhoto features that will organize my photos by their faces automatically really useful. I also like the maps aspect that makes looking over any region I wish to see geotagged photos easy for finding certain groups of pics. Which open source photo cataloguing app has those features?