Microsoft's latest ad attacks Mac aesthetics, computing power - Page 10

Try BOOTING your Laptop from the desktop or vice versa on the PeeCee.

PCs have nice case designs? Just my opion, but I have yet to see one. Some of the VAIOs weren't too bad (but failed next to a Mac). Would you like a root kit with your PC virus/ad/malware ridden nightmare?

Simbian. Yeah, we all want a Simbian Honestly, do you think anyone has even heard of a Simbian? Really?

Although this post makes some great points, I don't think "choices" explains the preference for PC hardware for the majority of buyers. I would venture to say the biggest reason is "stereotypes." I still hear people say things like, "Macs are best for graphic design" or "my company can't afford Macs because they're too expensive" or even "I couldn't open that web page, it must be because I'm on a Mac."

That being said, maybe Microsoft is on to something, since the purpose of this ad campaign seems to be perpetuating stereotypes. They don't even mind perpetuating the stereotype that Macs "look better" as long as they can also perpetuate the stereotypes that Macs are underpowered and overpriced.

You are really clueless, aren't you?

I didn't say that Apple should be the only developer, for God's sake! Apple is literally PLEADING for more devs to come (and they are coming!)

3rd party devs weren't listening to Apple due to low market share (read my comment about Sculley). Now Macs are growing, and since many PC devs had a good experience developing for the iPhone, more and more people are jumping IN!

OS, bundled software, support, and quality of components, uptime, ease up upgrade (with Migration assistant or the fact you can pull a hard disk out of one Mac install it in another and it will boot without SSID issues, or dirver issues.) I don't have to buy additional codecs for my computer to play a DVD, I don't have to buy additional software just to burn a DVD, I don't have to buy anti-virus software and renew it every year. I don't have to pay hundreds of dollars to get a real incremental backup solution. I don't have to worry about missing or corrupt dlls.

$900 more? I've made that money back 8 times in the last year alone, just in the amount of time I've saved.

I know this doesn't apply necessarily to consumers, but when the software I run on my computer costs $25,000, I don't care how much the computer cost, and when I make that money back on the first project I do, I don't care there either. I know plenty of companies around here that have bought MacBook Pros to install Windows on it and run Revit. They went that way because the PC that could run it just as well cost $500 more and wieghed 14 pounds. Plus because they weren't going to be discontinuing the MacBook Pro and replace it with something "similar" which happens all the time in the PC world (btw, the only thing similar in those PCs are the color) it makes supporting them a lot easier.

I had 6 PCs come in to the shop this weekend frantic because "I run My Business off this thing, I need it fixed now" Why anyone buys a $600 consumer laptop to run their business off of is beyond me. (Why they don't backup is a completely other issue) The quickest I could get the parts in was 8 days later. For Apple, I wait until they deliver the part on the Next Day. Dell can't do that anymore, they stopped that practice 3 years ago.

When you have a problem with Windows on an HP, Dell, or whatever, who do you call? The computer maker? They will send you to Microsoft, if Microsoft determines it is a driver issue, they will direct you elsewhere. When you have a problem with Mac OS X, you call Apple. You get the whole package.

Am I denying Apple computers cost more, No, do they cost too much? I don't think so, because my return on investment is always over 100%, can I get that with a PC, perhaps, never had a reason to try. I just know that since I've serviced over 4,000 computers in the last 3 years, I know what I like.

Are you retarded? Why do you insist on spelling it as 'Simbian'. It's Symbian and it's the OS that powers most/all Nokias + Sony Ericcsson smartphones to name a few.

Back to the advert, I just read that the laptop he bought only costs $1099. What an idiot! If Microsoft are paying for it, why didn't get he spend the whole budget of $1500. Advert makes a fair point but the guy in it is a tool!

My vote for a Mac vs PC forum.

Which Microsoft computers do you think would qualify?


Exactly which Microsoft computers are you talking about?

Ever heard of applications?

OS - I was just comparing hardware.

Bundled software - Again, comparing hardware only.

Support - I dropped my laptop, phoned Dell and they came the next day and replaced my motherboard so I guess Dell does do Next day support.

Quality of components - If by higher quality you mean the same, then yeah. Fact is there are only a certain number of manufacturers of HDD, Mobos, GFX cards etc that it's all the same.

Codecs - Way more FREE codecs on PC. Never had to buy any codec to play DVDs, MKVs etc

Drivers are a problem for Windows, that is true. Btw, you're telling me that those companies could not find MacBook Pro equivalent Windows laptops for less?! I don't know where they were looking...

To sum up, to each their own.

Or you can get all of it on a Mac... Because I have never heard af a computer named MAC. Isn't that an adress or something?

Apart from every design house, advertising company, video editing company, sound studio, etc. The only person I know who doesn't use a Mac is my brother... who works for IBM.

I've not seen so much PC trolling for years. This must be costing MS a fortune.

Great argument...
You will need the"power and versatiltiy" because it won't work consistenly.

I really couldn't understand a word of that but my hunch is that it was incorrect.

Just for the record, while I agree the new commercials are some of the strangest marketing ploys in memory, Win 7 has the same stated overall basic design goals as SL.

Tighter, faster code, ripping out lots of routines papered over for a decade or more, able to function better on fewer resources, e.g., Vista won't even run at all on Netbooks, but 7 runs at least as fast as XP on Atom processors, a cleaner, leaner UI, etc.

So both are set to be uber-maintenance releases rather than all about tacked-on new features and eye candy, though both are sure to include some of that for the ooh and ahh crowds. And the buzz from respected sources is that MS is actually going to hit most of its mark this time. So if 7 gets a B+ and SL an A, for a company with 90% share, that will be a victory.

And despite all the hue and cry here, for more and more users (we're not all propeller heads) the PC OS wars are more and more irrelevant until someone comes up with a real paradigm shift which neither major is working on, settling for mostly hardening and maturing their existing franchises.

That is, as the net evolves, OS X and Windows are really becoming more and more just platforms from which most users, the great bulk of non-technical users, launch browsers and do virtually all their computing in the cloud (or company network), reducing Macs and PCs to mostly overspecced terminals.

Every day previous differentiators like Office and iLife (and soon even graphically rich games) matter less and less, with their platform-agnostic web equivalents improving by leaps and bounds. I still use Word, but my simple spreadsheet needs (including live sharing and access from any PC) are met by Google Docs just fine and I won't bother with Numbers or Excel anymore. Ditto for Picasa over iPhoto.

The real bottlenecks in the world where the net itself is the computer, and the web its OS (v 2.1 approximately) aren't within PC's but in the pipes and servers they access.

Google understands this and is working on an OS (or so I've read) which basically extends Chrome down into hooks to hardware, which they may even give away, so that you'll boot up very lean on a netbook which is all about giving all resources over to web computing, optimized, of course for their growing stable of services while bypassing both MS and Apple, and this will be fine for many.

Meanwhile, Apple "gets" that the real OS wars are clearly moving to lightweight, portable, ubiquitously connected devices which integrate web computing with telephony, video and imaging ("takin' and postin' pitchurs"), which is why iPhone OS is Apple's real strategic initiative these days, and where Android, Symbian, Blackberry, etc. and maybe even Palm may provide more competition than MS. There will be a winnowing out in this space, but I doubt it will be reduced to two companies + open source as PC's have been. There are simply too many possibilities for devices and too many ways people will be using them

Fully powered personal computers are by no means dead, but are already on the road to gradually becoming a niche for professionals and hobbyists in a multi-tiered world of many computing devices.

You were comparing hardware, but you made a statement about paying $900 more for the software, so in fact, you were not comparing hardware alone.

My point is you are paying more for the software, and the support, and the rest...but since you don't have the option to buy a Mac without that stuff you have no idea what they'd charge for it.

As far as far as the hardware being the same...not true, Apple's Motherboards are not the same as anyone elses, they are designed specifically by Apple and manufactured by Intel, and just because the Graphics Chipset is the same, it does not mean the entire thing is the same. Why do you see 3 different video cards for the PC with the same chipset have dramatically different prices, the graphics card is more than an nVidia Chipset.

And the firms I've seen buying MacBook Pros have looked at over a dozen PC notebooks, but the MacBook Pro is the baseline. This is also true for the University of Cincinnati's Architecture school, and Miami University's Architecture School

Average people don't know anything about codecs, let alone where to get free ones.

The Dells that might get next day support are bought from them directly likely, but if you buy one from a retailer, the parts come from a different division of Dell, in fact tech support comes from a different place.

Guys,

Listen.... I've realized that a vast majority of you are trying to compare specs and another chunk keeps yelling about user experience. the Mac OS is just a retooled version of Linux. <- remember? the guy who keeps getting left out of the room..... It's a good operating system.... but the reality is you can build a better machine yourself than you can buy from either Apple, HP or Dell. For half the price..... then you can throw a copy of Linux on for nothing. Why buy a Mac when you can have it all for a fraction of the price?? Not only that....I know no one wants to believe it but... High end PC components are better than high end Mac components, it's just a fact..... You can't get quad core 3gig overclockable to 4 gig Mac components. You can't get crossfire dual core graphics cards with a gig of ddr5 that runs video and games seamlessly. You can't get huge power supply's to run massive hard drives of 2 terabytes in size. You don't have the luxury of looking into AMDs quad cores or tricores or picking up these components and unlocking extra cores. You can't pick up ddr 3 16000 memory for your Mac. I know I'm talking about high end specs here but..... User experience goes a long way...does it really go that long? It's great, you guys love your Macs but to pretend they aren't PCs wraped in pretty packages and that the OS isn't just a flashy version of Linux is a joke. Honestly, we are all PCs. Just some of us like options.

Lastly, a lot of you feel like your fighting the "man" when you purchase a Mac. Youre just in another "mans" corner. Be brave and try linux if you really want to make a difference or feel good about yourselves. It's the OS that doesn't brainwash you and doesn't want to.

I am sure they did all the clever editing of their commercials using Final Cut Pro. The commercials simply prove how stupid Microsoft really is...but then it wasn't a big secret either. The place where I work installed Office 2007 and what a POS that is!

1) OS X is not a retooled version of Linux.

2) Having an OS that does the same basic things does not make it the same.

Don't you mean NextStep?

Um, lets not confuse it...the evolution of OSX came through Linux. It's based on Linux like Windows is based on dos.....alot of evolution has occurred in the mean time but...... Windows is no longer dos based but you sure as hell can see the remnants of it.

No, no it's not. Perhaps you should read up on the history of computing a bit before you continue down this road.

I'm ok with going down this Road. OSX is a collection of other open source software combined with proprietary Apple software. I say Linux because it's the open source that everyone knows but they borrow quite a bit off other opensource. I'm using Linux as a generic term much like everyon else who doesn't understand distros and Gnm, BSD. You guys like the front end but.... It heavily borrows on Ideas within the linux world. Most of the things you like about OSX were available on linux back in 2002 or so.

When the first Core 2 Duo "Woodcrest" Xeon chips came out, I bought a Mac Pro that had 2 sets of Xeons with an almost 100% identical hardware profile (some things on the MP Desktop were actually faster) and I saved over a thousand dollars versus what Dell was charging. The price difference held fast for oh I don't know, several months. Hell, it's still definitely worth a lot more.

The difference in buying a Mac or a PC is the same as buying a Honda or a Kia.

Macs actually hold their value. There's a reason PC manufacturers are cutting their own throats to try to sell you something with virtually no profit margin what so ever.

You keep buying it if that's your prerogative.

I like my mac.

So Windows is Linux, based on your logic, or lack of it?

Do you not know that OS X came from NeXT which was bought by Apple and was the non-consumer company started by Job s after he left Apple back in the mid-1980s? Do you not know that it was based off of FreeBSD and that the GUI they created was pushed into the Mac OS, Windows, and Linux GUIs years later? Do you not know that Linux is a not Unix?

OS X is not Linux. They do not use the same kernel. They do not use the same GUI. Open source code that has found its way into both OSes has more to do with the fact that Linux emulated Unix by design, not the other way around. Windows also uses open source code but that doesn't make it Linux or Unix or OS X.

Really?

- can you snag the power cord unconcerned that your fumble may pull your PC laptop crashing down on the floor?
- can you put your PC laptop into target disk mode so that its internal drive can be accessed and used as an external drive on another computer?
- can you run your 17" PC laptop for well over 6 hours on the internal battery alone?
- does your PC laptop provide two internal video cards?
- does your PC laptop's trackpad support multi-touch gestures?

- can your PC be safely used for Internet activities without malware protection?
- does your PC provide built-in dual boot capability?
- does your Windows PC provide pre-configured plug-and-play backup?
- does your Windows PC provide built-in virtual workspace capability?
- can you play commercial movie DVDs without installation of additional software?

...and so much more, without even taking into account the integrated capabilities of the iLife suite...

PhoenixRising, you really shouldn't post unless you know what you're talking about...


Is that what you felt when you discovered that Mac users can game natively and upgrade their systems' components?

Oh I'm completely aware of this. They all have to start somewhere..... Jesus, a lot of Linux distros don't even use the same kernel. I see I've touched a sore point.... But the fact is that they are very similar... I know the history of his company and how he used open source for his own profit and greed...(just pushing buttons). No really though... it's very similar man.. That's not a bad thing. Why do you think it's a bad thing that it's based on Linux? Sure we can go back to Unix and say everything is based on that...but I'm saying OSX is closer to linux than it is to anything else and yes Apple certainly barrows heavily from the Linux world. You are in love with a brand just like I love pepsi more than Coke...I'm just saying theirs an Uncola out there.

You do realize that in my previous post that I never said the XPS 16 is better than the MBP at base price. I said it is almost as good in terms of the hardware comparison. Yet you ignored the fact that i said that and use every detail you can to try to make the MBP look better. Well I am not disagreeing with you. But just for a moment, think about the normal person who doesn't know a lot looking at these two machines and compare them. One would think that a notebook that cost $2500 bucks is better in every single way compared to the one that cost $1600. But it is not. Even down to some of the basic hardware the MBP is obviously inferior(HD, Sound, video card...just to name a few).



Why do you keep assuming that I think everyone is wrong when they buy a mac???Are mac user that sensitive that they think people are trying to restrict their free will every time some sort of criticism is thrown at a MAC? Come now you're attacking pc in this post. You even used words such as "junk" to describe products made by hp. Am I getting all up in arms and accusing you of trying to tell me what to do?Hate to see what happen if i were to call a MAC a shinny overpriced trendy junk. Oops I just did.

Please don't accuse me of doing things that I did not do. I didn't tell you not to buy a mac. I didn't tell you it's wrong to buy a mac. I didn't say the earth is going to explode if you bought a mac. If you actually read, or care to considered, what I wrote earlier as a response to your post you will understand why I responded to this article. I simply took offense to the article suggesting that Mac and PC are comparable in terms of price. Now you can go throw your money down a well, burn it, smoke it, or buy a Mac for all I care.

sweet !!!!!!!!!

From the perspective of a PC guy who doesn't use Windows I'm just saying both company's treat their customers like Junk. Apple for over charging and Windows for it's bad business practices. You should all feel taken advantage of because you have been. I've been overcharged for stuff too, it doesn't feel good and it feels worse when someone points it out.

The word is: Symbian. Wasn't your spell checker screaming at you? If you are going to try and insult someone, at least get the spelling correct.

ugh. I would have told that dork to spend Microsoft's money on a sound system for his car.

Linux was introduced in 1991, Mac OS X used the Mach Kernal and OpenStep from the 1980's. Linux is a flavor of Unix, Mac OS X is a flavor of Unix, but Mac OS X is NOT a flavor of Linux, Linux and Mac OS X took different paths, which is why a lot of Linux commands do NOT work in the Mac OS X Terminal, and vice versa.

To give you a spec idea......

I have a lion li case I got for 120 bucks- small form factor and polished aluminum.
A AMD phenom 2 running at 3.8 gigs I bought for 200 bucks.
A ATI graphics card 4870 I bought for 150 bucks.
Gigabyte mother board for 75 bucks.
6 gigs of ddr 2 1066 for 75 bucks
A 500 watt power supply for 50 bucks
An operating system for 0 dollars

This is not a top of the line PC

These specs are better than anything you can get in a Mac and I put it together for $650.00.

You can blow any Mac away for a grand. Crap, you can build a PC that can control small country's for $1500

I think that says a lot.

Yes Macs do hold value better, but jesus in the tech world nothing should ever hold it's value unless youre completely delusional as to how your components age VS software.

They hold value beacuse people dont get how stuff works.

Have fun with your Dull. Goodbye.

I compute on the platform that delivers the performance and aesthetics that I want. I don't give a damn if it cost me more..it's what I want.

So your telling me that OSX under no circumstances barrows any code from Linux at all? zip zero notta? And for that mater apple doesn't lift ideas from linux distros or other open source? I admitted they arent exactly the same, but it's like homosapien and neanderthal. They diverged but they still look an awful lot alike.

I'm sure it will be easy to start talking about what microsoft barrows...but I'm not talking about MS here.

"Better than anything you can get in a Mac," eh? Not hardly, mitz. You really haven't a clue, do you?

Look, it's not that hard to inform yourself, mitz. Connect to the series of tubes known as the Internets and do some research. I'll even help you out--start here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_OS_X

And here is the overriding factor in with Macs - the lust factor. I can't say I have ever heard anyone lust after the HP that this guy picked up in the commercial ("ooh, I can't wait for it to come out"). Since Jobs returned to Apple (in 98, right?), this has been the direction the company has gone in, and one that the rest of the industry has reluctantly moved in. Anyone remember what PCs looked like before the iMac was introduced? terrible. Since then, people actually started to care about what their machines looked like. Mac haters can say what they want, without Apple you'd still be working on a beige box with a boring OS.

The only PCs that seem to compete with this is the Vaio line, which isn't that cheaper when you look at specs. the Adamo is another example. Lets face it, would Dell have hyped this thing, let alone released it at all, if the general public wanted economy over design?

Microsoft is trying to convince people to "settle" for a PC, and usually its what the average windows user does. They look for an average OS, one that they use at the office, go to a big box store, and get another computer. Apple products (not just the computers) are things that people actually "want". Lets face it, here in Vancouver in the Pacific Centre Mall we have an Apple Store and a Sony Store - which one do you think is packed all of the time? Apple it is. Same with the Futureshop (basically a Best Buy for the US peeps) - no one looking at PCs, everyone looking at the Mac table.

We can have people from both sides of the aisle debate the pros and cons of each platform, but the average consumer could care less. Most are ignorant on specs (if these commercials succede, that would all but prove it), but everyone is capable of actually "wanting" a product. Every person on this board has made this decision at some store. If not, we'd all be eating generic food from Walmart and wearing sweatsuits. People sometimes choose to get something more expensive because the "want" it instead of settling for something else. Some people do this with computers. And that's basically what Microsoft is telling us with these commercials: "when you have to settle, buy PC"

I find it quite strange that so many die hard PC lovers are reading and replying to what is considered an Apple forum and website.

He meant anything you can get in a mac that cost $650. Are there any Mac that come close to that price?O yes...the mini. I guess you would prefer the mini over the spec that mitz have. Probably for the stylish looking lunch box and the great OSX.