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Fox News Murders - Page 2

post #41 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

We need guns to protect ourselves from our government? I would like to see US citizens go to war against the US army. That Glock is really going to intimidate the guy with the finger on the button.

300 million people with glocks just might intimidate the guy with the finger on the button.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #42 of 150
Northgate's comment:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Northgate View Post

Earning money is not a right.

jassguru's "reply":

Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Actually, the Constitution does specifically mention money. You have read it, I assume? The US Constitution?

Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5 grants only to Congress the power "To coin Money [and] regulate the Value thereof".

Congress soon after passed the Mint Act of 1792, establishing a US Mint that produced money based on gold and silver.

Article 1, Section 10 states:

"No State shall ... coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts".

The Constitution made it very clear that only gold and silver based currency was to be used among the States.

As you can see, the Constitution does specifically mention money. Today our money is based on...well...nothing, really. We aren't using money in accordance with the Constitution, hence the problems.

Can we say, "nonsequitur", children? Typical right-wing logic.
post #43 of 150
Actually, Northgate is technically correct.

Earning money is not a right guaranteed and protected by the Constitution.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #44 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

300 million people with glocks just might intimidate the guy with the finger on the button.

1,200 nukes against 300,000,000 glocks. Can't wait for the MBox game.

Problem #1: guy with finger on button is part of 300,000,000 and was elected by their majority.
Problem #2: army has better aim and and better toys, is also part of 300,000,000 who paid for all these.
Problem #3: How do you know who is government if they don't identify themselves.
Problem #4: of the people by the people?
Problem #5: not all of the 300,000,000 have Glocks or any other weapon or are willing to go to war with the government they elected.
Problem #6: Supply of bullets.
Problem #7: Gov controls supply chains.
Problem #8: What then?

Try voting if you want to get rid of your government, it's cheaper. If you can't convince other people to vote for the people you want in power, have better ideas.
post #45 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

FN

It would be much better if the tax payers have to pay for damages. Of course if you are poor you really need a gun to defend your property. To compare ropes to guns is plain idiotic. How about the pursuit of happiness? BTW you do have to have insurance for assemblies, concerts, movieshoots. To compare guns and knives is also completely idiotic.
If you don't have insurance for your car (which is regarded as a deadly weapon in some cases) you pay. We need guns to protect ourselves from our government? I would like to see US citizens go to war against the US army. That Glock is really going to intimidate the guy with the finger on the button.

According to Glenn it is OK to kill Sarah Palin for being stupid as long as you do it with a gun.
3 police officers have died.

After reading this reasoning, I am suddenly very convinced it should be against the law for certain people to own guns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

1,200 nukes against 300,000,000 glocks. Can't wait for the MBox game.

Problem #1: guy with finger on button is part of 300,000,000 and was elected by their majority.
Problem #2: army has better aim and and better toys, is also part of 300,000,000 who paid for all these.
Problem #3: How do you know who is government if they don't identify themselves.
Problem #4: of the people by the people?
Problem #5: not all of the 300,000,000 have Glocks or any other weapon or are willing to go to war with the government they elected.
Problem #6: Supply of bullets.
Problem #7: Gov controls supply chains.
Problem #8: What then?

Try voting if you want to get rid of your government, it's cheaper. If you can't convince other people to vote for the people you want in power, have better ideas.

You know for being a guy trying to convince us all that it is Fox News causing this, you are doing an awful good job of raising the paranoia level yourself.

I mean listing all the problems pretty much justifies a guy building his survivalist cabin up in the woods with two year supply of food and a lifetime supply of ammo and arms.

You aren't secretly a Fox News personality are you?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #46 of 150
Most of your "problems" are just wild speculation.

Tell the North Koreans to try voting to get rid of their government. The Chinese, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #47 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

FN

It would be much better if the tax payers have to pay for damages. Of course if you are poor you really need a gun to defend your property. To compare ropes to guns is plain idiotic. How about the pursuit of happiness? BTW you do have to have insurance for assemblies, concerts, movieshoots. To compare guns and knives is also completely idiotic.
If you don't have insurance for your car (which is regarded as a deadly weapon in some cases) you pay. We need guns to protect ourselves from our government? I would like to see US citizens go to war against the US army. That Glock is really going to intimidate the guy with the finger on the button.

According to Glenn it is OK to kill Sarah Palin for being stupid as long as you do it with a gun.
3 police officers have died.

So you wish to outlaw Glen Becks opinions. Good luck with that. Your so called quote "According to Glenn it is OK to kill Sarah Palin for being stupid as long as you do it with a gun." is simply a lie.
post #48 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post


You aren't secretly a Fox News personality are you?

I am Glenn Beck promoting my show, what's wrong with that?
post #49 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Many of our laws are unconstitutional.

List please.
post #50 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

List please.

The Patriot Act is definietly unconstitutional.

A good list here. Primarily having to do with the First Amendment.

There are several Federal Regulations that also ignore the First Amendment.

This is just a sampling of some on the Federal Level.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #51 of 150
Thread Starter 
post #52 of 150
Thread Starter 
Double post, don't know why?
post #53 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post


You hear voices in your head don't you.
You don't own a gun do you?
post #54 of 150
Pelosi Calls For Gun Registration,
Opposes D.C. Gun Reform Legislation

Friday, April 10, 2009

In February, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) rightly rejected Attorney General Eric Holder's call for renewing the so-called "assault weapons" ban, which expired in 2004 after Congress refused to renew it.

However, on Tuesday, on ABC's "Good Morning America," Pelosi said, "we [members of Congress] have to find some level of compromise" on guns. She noted that the Supreme Court, in District of Columbia v. Heller, ruled that the Second Amendment protects an individual right to guns. But, she said, "We want them registered."

Pelosi also used the word "draconian" to describe legislation before Congress to reform D.C.'s gun laws. Apparently referring to the provision of that legislation that would permit residents of D.C. to buy handguns in Maryland and Virginia, Pelosi added, "we don't want them crossing state lines."

Pelosi's objection to exempting D.C. residents from the Gun Control Act's ban on sales of handguns (even by dealers) between residents of different states is misplaced, not only because there is only one handgun dealer in the District, but because the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) has rendered the interstate sales ban pointless and unnecessary. A D.C. resident buying a handgun will be subject to the same instant background check, regardless of where the sale occurs.

Pelosi objected to the fact that disagreement over the D.C. gun legislation is preventing a vote on legislation to give the District a voting member in the House. To say the least, we regret that the Speaker of the House believes it more important to give the D.C. Delegate a vote on the House floor than to protect D.C.'s law-abiding residents' right to defend themselves from criminals.

Meanwhile, Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), the Senate sponsor of the now-expired federal "assault weapons" ban, said on a CBS "60 Minutes" program to be aired on Sunday that she is only temporarily holding off on introducing legislation to reinstate the ban. "I'll pick the time and place. No question about it," Feinstein said.
post #55 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

You hear voices in your head don't you.
You don't own a gun do you?

I was in the military. I was a driver, I know how to shoot machine pistol while driving.

But no I do not own a gun. I do not see the need.
post #56 of 150
I grew up shooting pistols, rifles and with a family that owned several guns.

I have never owned a gun nor felt the need. However now after Jamac/Glen Beck has scared the hell out of me, I'm in the waiting period on a .22 rifle.

Thanks Jamac for the heads up.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #57 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I grew up shooting pistols, rifles and with a family that owned several guns.

I have never owned a gun nor felt the need. However now after Jamac/Glen Beck has scared the hell out of me, I'm in the waiting period on a .22 rifle.

Thanks Jamac for the heads up.

Amazing you are scared by two idiots?
post #58 of 150
Are you now personally attacking yourself?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #59 of 150
Can you be banned for that?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #60 of 150
I'm about as anti Fox "News" as you can get. But at the same time I would say they played no part in this saga.

My home is about a mile from where the 3 officers were shot and so the TV, radio, and print news in the area has been saturated with coverage. One thing is clear, that this guy was a complete nut-job. Just about everyone in the neighborhood had a story about seeing him flip out on more than one occaision. He was obviously disturbed and could have been set off by just about anything.

In this case, his mom yelled at him because he came home early in the morning after a night of partying. Having not let the dog out, it had pissed on the floor indoors. He was getting scolded for shirking the responsibility of a pet. From there it just escalated and I'm sure they threw insults at each other about just about everything. He's gotten physically violent with his family in the past and so his mom called the cops while he put on a vest and picked up an assault rifle.

This had pretty much had nothing to do with the fear of guns being taken away. The guy would and did flip out about anything. In this case, it was in no way related to gun control.

There's plenty of blame 2nd or 3rd tier blame to go around, but Fox "News" should be near the bottom of that list.

(Wow, did I just defend Fox "News"? Trumptman, mark this on your calendar. )
post #61 of 150
The end times truly are here as proven by dfiler's response. Thankfully I have firearms on the way.

BTW, no firearms are on the way. I can barely remember to lock the doors.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #62 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The end times truly are here as proven by dfiler's response. Thankfully I have firearms on the way.

BTW, no firearms are on the way. I can barely remember to lock the doors.

Paintball guns are not considered firearms, are they?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #63 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Paintball guns are not considered firearms, are they?

I do own a BB gun and when the pigeons come down in their black helicopters, I'm taking them out.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #64 of 150
So if an AI member goes on a shooting rampage because they fear news commentary will be banned, does that make Jamac liable?
post #65 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

So if an AI member goes on a shooting rampage because they fear news commentary will be banned, does that make Jamac liable?

It's could be hard to shoot someone with a "commentary".
This is about guns. Those are those metal things that go "pat pat pat".
(Clarification for the ueber intelligent AI members).
post #66 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

It's could be hard to shoot someone with a "commentary".
This is about guns. Those are those metal things that go "pat pat pat".
(Clarification for the ueber intelligent AI members).

So what you're saying is if someone takes a metal thing that goes "pat pat pat" and shoots someone after being incited by your posts here, you're liable?

Thanks for clarifying.
post #67 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

So what you're saying is if someone takes a metal thing that goes "pat pat pat" and shoots someone after being incited by your posts here, you're liable?

Thanks for clarifying.

YES, I am liable for everyone who shoots somebody with a web browser.
post #68 of 150
Which web browser is metal and goes "pat pat pat"?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #69 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

YES, I am liable for everyone who shoots somebody with a web browser.

Someone shouting "fire" in a crowded theater doesn't trample people with "fire" either.
post #70 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jamac View Post

YES, I am liable for everyone who shoots somebody with a web browser.

I totally get this reasoning.

What I'm confused about is who shot who with a television so that the Fox News people are liable?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #71 of 150
The Department of Homeland Security announced today that right-wing extremism is on the rise in Amerika.

On cue, Malkin and others of her kind started commenting on the report.

What a laugh.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #72 of 150
Indeed. Nobody need question the policies and edicts set forth by our Dear Leader and his infallible Administration.

The Government will take care of us all.

War is Peace

Freedom is Slavery

Ignorance is Strength

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #73 of 150
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

I totally get this reasoning.

What I'm confused about is who shot who with a television so that the Fox News people are liable?

They were not talking about TVs.



THEY WERE TALKING ABOUT GUNS.
post #74 of 150
Since we're all fired up about firearms and "fire in a crowded theater" and what not, it seems appropriate to look at what the Supreme Court has actually decided (and you can determine for yourselves whether they are right or wrong).

First, let's tackle "shouting fire in a crowded theater". Here's what Oliver Wendell Holmes actually wrote:

Quote:
The most stringent protection of free speech would not protect a man falsely shouting fire in a theater and causing a panic. [...] The question in every case is whether the words used are used in such circumstances and are of such a nature as to create a clear and present danger that they will bring about the substantive evils that Congress has a right to prevent.

This was written in a decision (Schenck v. United States) in which the Supreme Court unanimously decided that:

Quote:
The First Amendment did not protect speech encouraging insubordination, since, "when a nation is at war many things that might be said in time of peace are such a hindrance to its effort that their utterance will not be endured so long as men fight, and that no Court could regard them as protected by any constitutional right." In other words, the court held, the circumstances of wartime permit greater restrictions on free speech than would be allowable during peacetime.

In fact it was specifically dealing with a case where:

Quote:
Charles Schenck was the Secretary of the Socialist party and was responsible for printing, distributing, and mailing 15,000 leaflets to men eligible for the draft that advocated opposition to the draft. These leaflets contained statements such as; "Do not submit to intimidation", "Assert your rights", "If you do not assert and support your rights, you are helping to deny or disparage rights which it is the solemn duty of all citizens and residents of the United States to retain."

This was later overturned with the Brandenburg v. Ohio decision which narrowed the limitations on inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action.


So, questions:

Was the Supreme Court right in Schenck v. United States? Were they right in Brandenburg v. Ohio? If so, back to the subject of "Fox News Murders", is Fox News (or any other media outlets spouting "inflammatory" rhetoric) guilty here under the Brandenburg test (directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action)?
post #75 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Not to mention this pesky little thing called the Second Amendment to the Constitution:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

(Emphasis added.)

Note the capitalization of the word "People". Calitalized. Just like in "We the People" from the preamble to the Constitution.

I don't know how it can be any more clear.

It couldn't be less clear. If "People" means everyone everywhere having unfettered and unrestricted access to the weapon of their choice, why are the words "militia" and "well regulated" in the same sentence? It could just as easily mean the people who are a part of that well regulated militia have that right. In fact, I think it's pretty far fetched to think that it means anything other than that.

People already accept infringements on that supposed right anyway. There are rules as to who is and is not allowed, permits, waiting lists, background checks, prohibited weapons, etc. That toothpaste is also already out of the tube; people's rights can and will be restricted regardless of what the constitution says or meant if the government feels it's the best course of action (see the patriot act).
post #76 of 150
Just remember Oklahoma City!

You people who feed off of this utter itdiotic Fear of Big Government are dangerous, except your dangerous effects take place far away in dirty corners of nameless farms.


(BTW - Read Marita Sturcken's Tourists of History)
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

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"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
--George W Bush

"Narrative is what starts to happen after eight minutes
--Franklin Miller.

"Nothing...

Reply
post #77 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfflam View Post

this utter itdiotic Fear of Big Government

Really? The fear (and distrust) of big government is idiotic? Utterly idiotic? Really? And it's dangerous too?

Interesting.
post #78 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by involuntary_serf View Post

Since we're all fired up about firearms and "fire in a crowded theater" and what not, it seems appropriate to look at what the Supreme Court has actually decided (and you can determine for yourselves whether they are right or wrong).

First, let's tackle "shouting fire in a crowded theater". Here's what Oliver Wendell Holmes actually wrote:



This was written in a decision (Schenck v. United States) in which the Supreme Court unanimously decided that:



In fact it was specifically dealing with a case where:



This was later overturned with the Brandenburg v. Ohio decision which narrowed the limitations on inflammatory speech unless it is directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action.


So, questions:

Was the Supreme Court right in Schenck v. United States? Were they right in Brandenburg v. Ohio? If so, back to the subject of "Fox News Murders", is Fox News (or any other media outlets spouting "inflammatory" rhetoric) guilty here under the Brandenburg test (directed to inciting and likely to incite imminent lawless action)?

And of course the answer is "no". They would have to be aware of what all of their viewers were doing and thinking.
post #79 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

It couldn't be less clear. If "People" means everyone everywhere having unfettered and unrestricted access to the weapon of their choice, why are the words "militia" and "well regulated" in the same sentence? It could just as easily mean the people who are a part of that well regulated militia have that right. In fact, I think it's pretty far fetched to think that it means anything other than that.

People already accept infringements on that supposed right anyway. There are rules as to who is and is not allowed, permits, waiting lists, background checks, prohibited weapons, etc. That toothpaste is also already out of the tube; people's rights can and will be restricted regardless of what the constitution says or meant if the government feels it's the best course of action (see the patriot act).

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials."
George Mason, in Debates in Virginia Convention on Ratification of the Constitution, Elliot, Vol. 3, June 16, 1788

"Whereas civil-rulers, not having their duty to the people duly before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as military forces, which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms."
-- Tench Coxe, in Remarks on the First Part of the Amendments to the Federal Constitution

"The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."
-- Alexander Hamilton, The Federalist Papers at 184-188

"That the said Constitution shall never be construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press or the rights of conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms ... "
-- Samuel Adams, Debates and Proceedings in the Convention of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, at 86-87 (Pierce & Hale, eds., Boston, 1850)

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed; as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops that can be, on any pretense, raised in the United States. A military force, at the command of Congress, can execute no laws, but such as the people perceive to be just and constitutional; for they will possess the power, and jealousy will instantly inspire the inclination, to resist the execution of a law which appears to them unjust and oppressive."
--Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution (Philadelphia 1787).

Is it becoming clearer to you now?

I have more if you want me to post them.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #80 of 150
Quote:
Originally Posted by pfflam View Post

You people who feed off of this utter itdiotic Fear of Big Government are dangerous, except your dangerous effects take place far away in dirty corners of nameless farms.

The Founding Fathers and those who fought for this nation's independence from the tyrannical rule of the British also had what you refer to as an "utter idiotic Fear of Big Government".

Our founding documents are predicated on it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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