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Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad - Page 4

post #121 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post

Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?

LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.

And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.

Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).

My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.

And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.

I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.

I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...
Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.

I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?

I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...

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post #122 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeksdigital View Post

The "Windows - Life without walls" thing still has me really confused - how the f*ck do you have windows if you don't have walls? Idiots...

post #123 of 337
What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?

I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.
post #124 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?

I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.

Apple is grabbing huge chunks of the Premium end of the market.

MS is being relegated to a bargain-basement WalMart brand. When the highest-income bracket consumers don't want your product, what does that say about your image? What does that say about your product?
post #125 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nizy View Post

You hit the nail on the head there mate! Its no coincidence that rising Mac sales follow on from the enormous success of the iPod and more recently the iPhone. Some of my friends are iPod owners that have been converted to Macs solely because of their experience with the iPod!

As for the ads/report, they are completely ridiculous and biased toward MS and their partners. The addition of mac items that don't appear on the PC side is just stupid. So a Mac user has to buy office (and upgrade it) yet a PC user doesn't? Maybe he expects the PC user to illegally download it?

MS seems to be advertising themselves as the cheap alternative. The problem is that Apple offers a far superior product, which is why there's the so called "Apple Tax". Its like MS is a Hyundai and Apple is a Mercedes - the Hyundai is most likely a cheaper car, does most of what you want it to, but if you want the better quality (better engineering, more features, style, comfort etc) you go for the Mercedes! And of course that Mercedes costs a premium too just like Apple.

Well that's the only thing they got going for them, being cheap, but Office is not cheap.
post #126 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your just being an idiot.

The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.

Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...

So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.

Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.

LOL dude you know Apple blogs talk about things related to Apple, if Apple hadn't been mentioned, do you think people here would give half a damn.
post #127 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin View Post

Yes, yes, yes... Because Apple as a company and Macs sales are so doing freaken horrible. They're doomed unless they come down in price. How many times have we heard this? How many more are we going to have to suffer through?

They do not need to come down in price. People just need to resist buying that $700 piece of crap and save more. I'm sorry, but anyone who values their money and investments will look at more than just specs on a sheet. There's customer satisfaction, repair statistics, and customer support. Apple is one of the few companies that realizes that you're a customer for the life of the product, not just until you hand over the cash and walk out the door. The Apple Stores reflect that and that's nothing Microsoft will ever be able to offer Windows users, because they don't deal with end-users, they do business with OEMs.

Look Apple has to build and support Mac OSX, plus they also build their own hardware and this comes at a price. The likes of Dell, Sony, HP, Lenovo don't have to worry about building an advanced operating system. This is the price you have to pay, some of us are more than willing to in order not to tackle Windows.
post #128 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelhot View Post

Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?

post #129 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.

And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.

Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).

My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.

And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.

I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.

I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...
Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.

I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?

I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...

Look Sony Vaio's are just expensive as Macs if not even more, so I don't get your point. You need to go to your closest Sony Style and check them out.
post #130 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

3D apps?

You mean GAMES. GAMES aren't "3D apps."

Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.

Macs were BORN to run Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and all the Pro grade "3D Apps" out there. Macs run all the graphics-intensive apps we need. And they are the industry standard. Macs are all about 3D apps.

I]Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.[/I]


Don't tell Apple iPhone users that! The all time top 20 paid apps and the all time top 20 free apps, 40 all time top apps in all are categorized "Games"!

Maybe Apple should consider an economical gaming Mac computer based on the "iPhone technology" since their are fewer software games being written for OS X? I guess, I dunno.

But wait, but wait, OS X runs windows people can buy "games" and run them on windows. Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Mac experience. Mac needs OS X to run Windows in order to play the games that Mac users can care less about and yet buy an Apple product namely the iPhone that makes a ton of apps in broad categories like business, utility, games, etc. and the Apple iPhone games app take 20 of the 40 slots in Top Apps downloaded?!

Games may not be as "dirty" a word for Apple Macs as one might think, but I feel a flaming coming on... : (

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post #131 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

As a long long time Windows user and Mac owner I think it's about time Microsoft started advertising their strengths. I think this article sounds like someone with sour grapes. Like the Apple ads are any more truthful. I have always enjoyed them. I think they are funny, but truthful they are not. The Microsoft ads are very accurate. You can buy an excellent Windows laptop, for less then the price of a Mac mini, that will last a long time. My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).

I personally have never felt comfortable in an Apple store. Most people I meet there seem to feel they are better then anyone that owns a Windows machine.

I have virtually no problems with Windows or the Mac but I spend a lot of time helping others on both. Mac owners can mess up their machines just as well as a Windows user.

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Everyone keeps mentioning the virus costs. There are several options on Windows that are free, including not running any (I don't run any on my home machines) I do scan my server drives for virus's (I've yet to find one except in e-mail attachments). You can get a virus/trojan on a Mac.

Open Office works quite well on Windows and Macs and it's free. You can use Neo Office on the Mac which is Open Office compiled as a native Mac app.

First post? Sure, you don't work for Redmond... Don't feel comfortable in an Apple Store? You obviously have an inferiority complex, because I know I wouldn't give a damn if I saw you there. Then again, I would be uncomfortable in an Apple Store if I worked for Microsoft, too.

A two year old Dell is better than a $2,000 MacBook? First of all, you don't give any information about either, other than a vague description of the age of the Dell and the price of the MacBook. That doesn't tell anyone anything. I highly doubt that any two year old Dell notebook is better than a $2,000 MacBook of any age.

No, Mac owners do not "mess up" their machines anywhere near as bad, and often, as PC users. I've spent a LOT more time fixing the PCs in my family than the Macs, and most of my family owns Macs these days.

You know just as damn well as I do that there's probably back-end proprietary credit card merchant software that requires Windows. It has nothing to do with whether an iPhone of iPod Touch is better than Windows Mobile, because all of us here in the real world know damn well that Windows mobile is garbage. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot stylus. I have a Blackberry and an iPhone. I can hardly stand to use the Blackberry, but I'm not allowed to have the iPhone on an employee plan. Windows Mobile and Blackberry devices are so damn slow and clunky.

Free antivirus doesn't work as well as paid antivirus, the same way a free healthcare clinic isn't as thorough as a real hospital. If you have a real problem, you're going to need the hospital anyways. It's just plain idiotic to run Windows without antivirus, unless you're completely disconnected from any networks and have no optical/magnetic media. No, Macs don't just "get" viruses and trojans. In order to successfully infect a Mac the same way that Windows machines are constantly infected, it would take real concrete social engineering and/or physical access to the machine. I've used Macs for years now, still no malware. Keep talking. Reality speaks for itself.

OpenOffice produces poor quality documents. Then again, so does Office. iWork, however, creates very elegant documents and it's very easy to use. Office is okay, but I prefer iWork. OpenOffice is garbage. Harder to use and messy looking documents. Most open source software is too damn generic. For example, The GIMP.
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post #132 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your [sic] just being an idiot.

The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.

Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...

So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.

Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.

Perhaps you should stop calling others 'idiots' and such, and look in the mirror.

If you think an average person doesn't understand - heck, my ten year-old can - that 'life without walls' refers to life without boundaries, that is plain silly. People are pointing out the irony, indeed, the stupidity (in a punning way) of a product called 'Windows' talking about having no walls...... it is actually quite funny when you think about it.

This whole campaign is based on the premise that the recession will last a long time. When things start to turn the premise becomes weaker.

It has all the finesse and logic of Wal-mart taking on, say, Nordstrom. It may work temporarily, in a recessionary environment, but it also fixes in people's mind the notion that they see themselves as second-class. Quite apart from that, they are muddying their own product identity, which is primarily about software, not the boxes in which that primary product resides.
post #133 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...

So what? What's your point?
post #134 of 337
To me, time is money, and I won't waste either on Windows ever again.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Before I switched I spent more time troubleshooting than getting any work done. Not the case with OS X.
post #135 of 337
...has seen the errors of its ways and - according to the desktop chart provided by Mr. Kay - is apparently loading full-blown Office (3 seat license) on every new Windows machine. Good to know. Brilliant plan.
post #136 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

What a freaking dunce, so these Vaio's here are cheaper than Macs:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644577896

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154

What a clueless idiot..

Really... all you could do is find 3 computers out of all those models you think are more expensive? Thats it...

Well... the Z series (as I mentioned before). Is 1600x900 pixels at 13.1 in screen. Apple doesn't offer those extra pixels on a 13" notebook do they? In addition it also comes standard with Mobile Broadband... something Apple also doesn't offer on any computer.

The TT Series... is 11 in. Apple does not compete against that computer.

About the LV series desktop, I will say those are expensive. They are truely the only computing product that Sony sells that does appear to be more expensive then Apple. I will note comparibly they really are about the same price and same cpu speed. The high end on both sides are around 3.0ghz with 1TB hard drive. However the Sony does come with a TV Tuner and Blu-ray and both really are marketed as an All in one that you hang on the wall as possibly a TV replacement. As such they are different the other All in ones in the fact it doesn't really have a chin and is thinner then the iMac.

For the majority of Sony Vaio purchases, it will be cheaper than Apple or you are getting features that Apple does not offer such as 11" or a 1600x900 13" display.

So your assertion that Sony Vaio is more expensive and that the FW in this advert was a 'one off' is completely false.

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post #137 of 337
Kay's report is the biggest pile of steaming crap I have ever seen! Better research has come out of a dog's ass. It's Microsoft sponsored so it's clearly just BS.

His figures for the 'Apple tax' are complete nonsense. Where are the thousands of $ a PC user has to spend on anti virus software, tech support, basic software like Preview and iMovie along with their time which the computer will waste when it breaks, crashes and needs reinstalling?

Also the microsoft windowsteamblog site it so badly made it won't let Macs using firefox 3 or Safari post comments - no doubt this is deliberate as it would expose the lies.

I feel like throwing my Xbox 360 at Steve Ballmer's head!
post #138 of 337
4th flamebait article in 2 weeks. AI must need the ad revenue.
post #139 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtyqwe View Post

The 3rd "comparison" drove me crazy!

they've listed the update of iLife or other software for MAC
but forget to list out the upgrades for WINDOWS and OFFICE!!!

To be fair, they did not list any OS X upgrades either.
However, for the PC they did not even include Office (or any upgrades for it either).
And the ATI Radeon HD4870 is somehow $90 more expensive for the Mac???
post #140 of 337
There is an Apple tax? Christ, thought I only had to worry about the IRS....

Actually some Apple "business decisions" I don't like at all (mini-DP or mini-anything when regular would fit just as well).

Report is fluff, disclaimer at the bottom says so - and it already left out the rest of computing (broadband, peripherals, etc - that are likely to be upgraded or serviced, new software, etc.)

That said tho, I'd like to see a more accurate comparison not made on a price basis, but some sort of side by side enthusiasts (that know their systems and software) made as equal as possible, right down to adding the questionable AV to the Mac as a background process - then give them a complex series of tasks (again using cross platform) - keep it within reason price wise, an accurate budget for everything would be around $5k (peripherals too).

Then go back and let each side use the same hardware systems in the configs and with the software they see fit to get the same task done - keeping all other things equal. (and off the shelf)

Finally, a $5k budget (pc) vs a $5k budget (mac) for any config to get the same tasks done. (would be nice to include Linux in there in a task-competitive enviro somehow)

By the way, is the sales rep chasing folks into a parking lot with a wad of cash a west coast thing? They don't do that in the midwest...
post #141 of 337
anybody stupid enough to buy windows deserve what they get. the money they save can be used to pay the trailer park rent.
post #142 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Really... all you could do is find 3 computers out of all those models you think are more expensive? Thats it...

Well... the Z series (as I mentioned before). Is 1600x900 pixels at 13.1 in screen. Apple doesn't offer those extra pixels on a 13" notebook do they? In addition it also comes standard with Mobile Broadband... something Apple also doesn't offer on any computer.

The TT Series... is 11 in. Apple does not compete against that computer.

About the LV series desktop, I will say those are expensive. They are truely the only computing product that Sony sells that does appear to be more expensive then Apple. I will note comparibly they really are about the same price and same cpu speed. The high end on both sides are around 3.0ghz with 1TB hard drive. However the Sony does come with a TV Tuner and Blu-ray and both really are marketed as an All in one that you hang on the wall as possibly a TV replacement. As such they are different the other All in ones in the fact it doesn't really have a chin and is thinner then the iMac.

For the majority of Sony Vaio purchases, it will be cheaper than Apple or you are getting features that Apple does not offer such as 11" or a 1600x900 13" display.

So your assertion that Sony Vaio is more expensive and that the FW in this advert was a 'one off' is completely false.

You are so clueless it ain't even funny, I said the Sony Vaios have around the same price as Macs and in some cases even more, show me where Sony offers a 600 dollar desktop like Apple does. You want to cherry pick a few models to show that the Vaios are some cheap computers, don't make me laugh.
post #143 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by res08hao View Post

anybody stupid enough to buy windows deserve what they get. the money they save can be used to pay the trailer park rent.

Ya thats why ATMs at banks use Windows. Thats why Nuclear Plants use Windows.

This also reminds me of the iPod Virus issue and some aqaintance telling me that those Windows users deserved viruses. Its like Bill Gates raped you as a child. You know what... HE IS GONNA COME AGAIN TONIGHT!!!

This is why Steve Jobs has said he doesn't like Apple fanbois and why sometimes I feel like I wanto sell ever Apple thing I own..

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post #144 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

You are so clueless it ain't even funny, I said the Sony Vaios have around the same price as Macs and in some cases even more, show me where Sony offers a 600 dollar desktop like Apple does. You want to cherry pick a few models to show that the Vaios are some cheap computers, don't make me laugh.

MOST Sony Vaios are cheaper not "around the same price". I gave you a list and most were in the $800 to $1600 range. Apple notebooks start at $999 and go to $2800. How is that "around the same price". Did you take maths at school?

Sony Vaio doesn't offer headless desktops any longer. So they wouldn't be competing against the Apple Mac Mini.

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post #145 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcopolo View Post

Why is MS spending all this money comparing hardware? Shouldn't they compare Vista/Windows 7 with OSX? They don't make computers. Apple makes both. Is HP, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, et al helping fund these ads? I'd like to see the OS comparison, including price and the ease of buying and using and features of one OS vs another that has 7 iterations. Maybe only 6 if you eliminate pure business and focus on pure home users. That would compare MS to Apple. Not these ads. Why isn't HP et al running their own ads? What's the cost of MS's OS vs. Apple's OS? What's the cost of OS upgrades?
As an earlier post said, it you want to go hardware and home built, why exclude Linux. Damn OS is free!! Why do the buyers in the ad's always seem to pick HP? Isn't Dell pissed, or Asus, Lenovo etc?

Microsoft is advertising a hardware price comparison, because they want people to believe
that is the only thing that needs to be compared. They want to program consumers to
assume that there is no real difference between operating systems. If someone believes
that, they are more likely to buy an inexpensively priced computer, where Microsoft is
the dominant player. Comparing software would not have nearly the likelihood of success
for Microsoft, in my opinion.
post #146 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

It's as if everything and everyone associated with Microsoft has a pathological tendency towards mediocrity - it simply cannot be helped. And good old Steve Ballmer serves as the pinnacle of it all.

Is there such thing as the pinnacle of mediocrity? (dissonant juxtaposition=brain cramp)
Can it be said that Ballmer excels at being mediocre?
post #147 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

I think this would actually have the opposite affect. The upside of Apple allowing their OS on any machine, would certainly be to allow people to buy very inexpensive hardware, and enjoy Mac OS X.

However, the downsides are huge. Number one is the philosophy that Macs work so well because the hardware and software were designed from day one to all work together. Going through the normal R&D process and thorough testing, Apple decides on specific hardware component combinations to avoid problems. Certain issues inevitably arise during R&D and testing, and then they make changes. Apple wouldn't be able to control this part of the process for other companies' hardware, and the exeprience would suffer for OS X users. If packard bell or Acer or Dell can slap OS X on any of their crappy laptops or desktops, suddenly you start seeing major driver incompatibility issues, cheap components used that don't work properly, and a major "bag of hurt" all the way around. That would ba a nightmare for Apple customer satisfaction, and for Apple Tech Support, not to mention their overall image a future success.

If Apple keeps it all in house, designing it all to work well together, they can control to a large degree how their products are perceived, and how successful they are, and their users win in this situation. That is one of the reasons I use Macs. I don't need Apple to lure a huge army of PC converts to justify my purchase.

Excellent point.. the average user will most likely have a better overall experience with Apple for that reason alone.
post #148 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

Free antivirus doesn't work as well as paid antivirus, the same way a free healthcare clinic isn't as thorough as a real hospital. If you have a real problem, you're going to need the hospital anyways. It's just plain idiotic to run Windows without antivirus, unless you're completely disconnected from any networks and have no optical/magnetic media. No, Macs don't just "get" viruses and trojans. In order to successfully infect a Mac the same way that Windows machines are constantly infected, it would take real concrete social engineering and/or physical access to the machine. I've used Macs for years now, still no malware. Keep talking. Reality speaks for itself.


That really depends... as far as preventing Antivirus? Free Antivirus works just as well.. it's the bloatware package with paid Antivirus that makes it 'so great'

I never run Antivirus with Windows... It's not a requirement unless you are really careless.
post #149 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpro View Post

There is an even bigger story here than how Microsoft has resorted to lame tactics...

...that they are even using tactics at all.

Apple has come a long way in the short six or seven years since I switched. Microsoft has shifted from ignoring Apple to competing with her. That is the real news here. We have only come to see Microsoft actually investing money to market their products against the Mac within the last twelve months or so (definitely gives credibility to Apple as a rising competitor).

First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win.

-- Mahatma Gandhi

Arguably Apple has already won. They have significant share in the premium market which is what they really want. Not OS dominance.
post #150 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by xpc View Post

There is an Apple tax? Christ, thought I only had to worry about the IRS....

Actually some Apple "business decisions" I don't like at all (mini-DP or mini-anything when regular would fit just as well).

Report is fluff, disclaimer at the bottom says so - and it already left out the rest of computing (broadband, peripherals, etc - that are likely to be upgraded or serviced, new software, etc.)

That said tho, I'd like to see a more accurate comparison not made on a price basis, but some sort of side by side enthusiasts (that know their systems and software) made as equal as possible, right down to adding the questionable AV to the Mac as a background process - then give them a complex series of tasks (again using cross platform) - keep it within reason price wise, an accurate budget for everything would be around $5k (peripherals too).

Then go back and let each side use the same hardware systems in the configs and with the software they see fit to get the same task done - keeping all other things equal. (and off the shelf)

Finally, a $5k budget (pc) vs a $5k budget (mac) for any config to get the same tasks done. (would be nice to include Linux in there in a task-competitive enviro somehow)

By the way, is the sales rep chasing folks into a parking lot with a wad of cash a west coast thing? They don't do that in the midwest...

5K budget? You have just helped Microsoft out...congrats.

Alienate a majority of the market with your ad and you won't be winning over many consumers.
post #151 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by camroidv27 View Post

Since I'm fed up with reading all the MS bashing (not that I actually LIKE their OS, but am forced to use it at work) and even more so the elitist attitudes of saying that certain people shouldn't use Apple products due to stereotypical reasons, I offer up a third alternative.

I would LOVE to see a Linux ad. People are fed up with Windows and Microsoft's way of programing bloat and business. Others are fed up with the prices of Apple products and Apple's iron fist of control. Bring on the free alternatives.

Here you go:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/services.php

Linux makes a cameo:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/upgrading.php
post #152 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea View Post

Here you go:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/services.php

Linux makes a cameo:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/upgrading.php

Haha! Awesome! All the "Linux" guy needs is a fold up bike and dorky helmet and a metro pass saying that he like bikes and busses since they are more "open" than manufactured cars. Actually, I think that analogy works well...

Then again, I'm that guy on the bus with the bike and the little netbook running linux.

Its a boring day right now, that was fun.
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
Reply
Go Linux, Choose a Flavor!
"I aim to misbehave"
Reply
post #153 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

I]Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.[/I]


Don't tell Apple iPhone users that! The all time top 20 paid apps and the all time top 20 free apps, 40 all time top apps in all are categorized "Games"!

Maybe Apple should consider an economical gaming Mac computer based on the "iPhone technology" since their are fewer software games being written for OS X? I guess, I dunno.

But wait, but wait, OS X runs windows people can buy "games" and run them on windows. Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Mac experience. Mac needs OS X to run Windows in order to play the games that Mac users can care less about and yet buy an Apple product namely the iPhone that makes a ton of apps in broad categories like business, utility, games, etc. and the Apple iPhone games app take 20 of the 40 slots in Top Apps downloaded?!

Games may not be as "dirty" a word for Apple Macs as one might think, but I feel a flaming coming on... : (

Playing simple games on an iPhone is far different from gaming on a PC or Mac.

The main selling point for Macs has never, ever been gaming. We don't buy them for gaming. So what's left? An amazing, integrated user experience on OS X. THAT is what we care about. There are far cheaper options when it comes to a gaming rig.

Mac users (or prospective users) who clamour for games and complain endlessly about hardware that is otherwise unnecessary in the OS X ecosystem just so they can have their games are barking up the wrong tree.
post #154 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

MOST Sony Vaios are cheaper not "around the same price". I gave you a list and most were in the $800 to $1600 range. Apple notebooks start at $999 and go to $2800. How is that "around the same price". Did you take maths at school?

Sony Vaio doesn't offer headless desktops any longer. So they wouldn't be competing against the Apple Mac Mini.

How hard is it to look under desktops on Sony Style? Home Theater PC:

$1,699 for a 2.1Ghz C2D, 4GB RAM, 500GB HDD, 8400M GT GPU, Dual-TV tuners, and Blu-Ray.

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=30348

For that kind of money I can get a Mini, aTV, PS3, and Rock Band 2.

The C2D AIOs are about the same price as the iMacs at the lower end:

20" Sony JS = $1,099-$1,299
20" Apple iMac = $1,199

The C2D AIO are higher at the top end but have Blu-Ray.

24" Sony LV = $1,600-$2,549
24" Apple iMac = $1,799-$2,199

Hard to argue that Sony is any cheaper than Apple. Most are around the same price when you compare the same segments to each other. You can't directly compare the 13" MacBook against the 13" Z because they occupy different segments in the two lineups. The Z is much higher end. Just like you can't compare the CS against the MBP. They do have different model philosophies but equivalent machines are about the same price in both lineups.

So even for notebooks they tend toward the same pricing once you sort out the differences. Sony has Blu-Ray and Apple has OSX as their selling points. Thus far, it has worked out better for Apple than Sony.
post #155 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

Just proves you are an idiot. Go to www.sonystyle.com and look at the model referenced in the advert and by me. You will see is quite cheaper than Apple.

So all your points and laughs are just utter failure.

Good luck finding the drivers to upgrade your Vaio to any future version of Windows!
post #156 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

As a long long time Windows user and Mac owner I think it's about time Microsoft started advertising their strengths. I think this article sounds like someone with sour grapes. Like the Apple ads are any more truthful. I have always enjoyed them. I think they are funny, but truthful they are not. The Microsoft ads are very accurate. You can buy an excellent Windows laptop, for less then the price of a Mac mini, that will last a long time. My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).

I personally have never felt comfortable in an Apple store. Most people I meet there seem to feel they are better then anyone that owns a Windows machine.

I have virtually no problems with Windows or the Mac but I spend a lot of time helping others on both. Mac owners can mess up their machines just as well as a Windows user.

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Everyone keeps mentioning the virus costs. There are several options on Windows that are free, including not running any (I don't run any on my home machines) I do scan my server drives for virus's (I've yet to find one except in e-mail attachments). You can get a virus/trojan on a Mac.

Open Office works quite well on Windows and Macs and it's free. You can use Neo Office on the Mac which is Open Office compiled as a native Mac app.

Just because you didn't wear a condom a few times and she didn't get pregnant doesn't mean it will always be that way. And don't quote free anti-virus, because none of them are any good (AVG's detection rate is less than 40%).

What exactly is your point about Easy Pay? Apple never had a retail set-up before that point and didn't have time to develop its own easy pay, so it integrated what was commonly held to be a strong POS system. I will say, though, that after eight years I wish they would break out a Mac OS based one since the current ones seem to glitch out so much (like every other thing Windows makes).

Lastly, I think it says more about you that you go into an Apple Store with this air of superiority than it does about anyone who works there. Besides that, though, I've been to all four of the Apple Stores in the metro Atlanta area and I've yet to hear one sales person mention Windows unless asked directly about it.
post #157 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Well, that thing probably reinforces that OSX is better given how often they're fiddling with the things to get them to work. Yes, I understand it's the mag strip reader and not winmo.

As to WHY they aren't using the iPhone...I REALLY doubt Apple wants to tarnish it's iPhone brand in such a way. It's not meant to be a POS (in either sense of the acronym) device.
post #158 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

For those who mention viruses - the last time I saw one on the Mac was about 15 or 20 years ago. On the PC side I have spent many hours cleaning systems which are so infected with so much malware that in one case after three days of running multiple software products multiple times - there was still one infectious item that spread the the rest of my network before I found the right tool for that particular problem.

All in all I am actually glad that there are so many PCs out there and that they have so many problems - this week alone I have five different PCs that need to be worked on - which makes me some extra money - which helps pay for things like upgrading the hard drive in my Mac or getting a new iPhone.

I second that!
post #159 of 337
I just want to say that Microsoft is wasting money on these adds. Why not give the money to those people you laid off and get back to the drawing board and come up with a really good operating system that is really usable. Up until 2006 I hated the Macs but till I starting to use one by force in the computer lab then i realize how good the macs were. For the two years i own my Mac Book Pro, I can't recall the one time it crash, i can't re-call reinstalling the operating system. Oh i did not come with junks and it still take me about 45 secs from the time i reboot my computer to be online. Do that with a brand new dell, HP, or Gate way. You first have to wait for VONGO, IM, YAHOO, MSN and the list continue to load before you can start doing your work. It does not even matter if you have 10000000000000gig of ram on the computer. sorry window it's your operating system it's not the computers... and yes apple computers far more involve because they make the software and the computer all under the same roof... maybe you can start doing them and get the other out of business.. thanks ..

Please people need that moeny give it to them and cut off these useless commercials..
post #160 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie View Post

You are still an idiot...
Sony Z series (13" 1600x900 display, Mobile Broadband) starting at $1699.99
Sony SR series (13" 1280x800) starting at $1049.99
Sony CS series 14" starting at $789.99
Sony NS series 15" starting at $779.99
Sony FW Series (16" with free Blu-ray) starting at $839.99
Sony AW Series 18" starting at $1424.99

Even configured to match Apple specs the notebooks are cheaper than Apple. I did not mention the 8 or 11" as Apple does not compete at these sizes. Sony quality is generally high end. I did own one a few years ago and was generally pleased. The only replacement was a battery and it was US English support.

Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...

Sony quality is high-end!? The vast majority of these "exploding" batteries we all hear about were produced by Sony. Samsung manufactures all of Sony's LCD HDTVs and often has a better picture and yet the exact same specs on the Sony will cost you at least $300 more.

And ever wonder why Sony no longer makes mid-towers? 1) It copies Apple's strategy without taking into consideration its own world position and 2) because the vast majority of its desktops sputtered out after two years (I have a six year old model in my attic that hasn't worked in I don't know how long).

Also, Sony did not invent Chiclet keys, it was simply the first to use them on a desktop. That was, in fact, one of its few good ideas.
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