Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad - Page 4

Originally Posted by wheelhot

Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?

Originally Posted by meeksdigital

The "Windows - Life without walls" thing still has me really confused - how the f*ck do you have windows if you don't have walls? Idiots...

Originally Posted by zindako

What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?

I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.

Originally Posted by nizy

You hit the nail on the head there mate! Its no coincidence that rising Mac sales follow on from the enormous success of the iPod and more recently the iPhone. Some of my friends are iPod owners that have been converted to Macs solely because of their experience with the iPod!

As for the ads/report, they are completely ridiculous and biased toward MS and their partners. The addition of mac items that don't appear on the PC side is just stupid. So a Mac user has to buy office (and upgrade it) yet a PC user doesn't? Maybe he expects the PC user to illegally download it?

MS seems to be advertising themselves as the cheap alternative. The problem is that Apple offers a far superior product, which is why there's the so called "Apple Tax". Its like MS is a Hyundai and Apple is a Mercedes - the Hyundai is most likely a cheaper car, does most of what you want it to, but if you want the better quality (better engineering, more features, style, comfort etc) you go for the Mercedes! And of course that Mercedes costs a premium too just like Apple.

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your just being an idiot.

The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.

Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...

So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.

Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.

Originally Posted by mjtomlin

Yes, yes, yes... Because Apple as a company and Macs sales are so doing freaken horrible. They're doomed unless they come down in price. How many times have we heard this? How many more are we going to have to suffer through?

They do not need to come down in price. People just need to resist buying that $700 piece of crap and save more. I'm sorry, but anyone who values their money and investments will look at more than just specs on a sheet. There's customer satisfaction, repair statistics, and customer support. Apple is one of the few companies that realizes that you're a customer for the life of the product, not just until you hand over the cash and walk out the door. The Apple Stores reflect that and that's nothing Microsoft will ever be able to offer Windows users, because they don't deal with end-users, they do business with OEMs.

Originally Posted by wheelhot

Hmm...downgrading requires you to pay more..I wonder which company does that?

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

LOL...Apple doesn't even offer downgrading if for some reason someone prefered Tiger over Leopard.. oddly enough I thought Tiger was more stable but thats another story.

And to those of you who claim $2800 is not a high price even for Apple when Sony (which is a premium brand) can offer you more at roughly the same size display for about $1600 then you have reality issues. I mean with Apple you go from somewhat reasonable to ultra expensive so fast you don't have to time to blink. The 2.0 MacBook is somewhat reasonable but god forbid you want more than 1280x800 pixels. I mean i'm not a pro, but I can see the use even in browsing, emailing, and IM for more the 1280x800 pixels.

Another odd thing I noted... go look at Sony for example. Its the opposite of Macs in the fact the generally the smaller you get the more expensive the laptop is. Where as with the Macbooks its the reverse (If you don't consider the Air).

My BF for example won't get a 13", he prefers larger screen and is laptop is mostly used as a desktop but sometimes taken out on the road. He is also a movie buff. Not that he creates them, but loves to watch them especially oldies and Woody Allen films. He would love a 17", he loves style as well but there is no way he could justify $2000+ when all he would ever do is email and watch movies. I tried to give him my 13" MacBook instead of selling it and he refused... saying the screen was too small. Me on the other hand, I love 13" but wouldn't mind more pixels. The Sony Z series offers 1600x900 in 13.1" notebook... who knows I'm sure in the future pixels will get more dense on the MacBooks as well.

And for those of you who claim that OS X is so much better... Leopard has had a ton of issues and still does in regard to networking. I was even told to reinstall Leopard from Apple Support for a networking issue. I thought such advice was only something Dell and HP gave... What I will gave Apple is they have good support that speaks English and they are likely to go above and beyond. As I said in an other post... HP, Dell, Toshiba love to give you the run around.

I do see value in iLife, but at the high end its really hard to justify what is becoming $1000 of difference especially if all you want is a 15" screen. I don't see why Apple couldn't do a consumer 15" notebok. Its really one size fits all in Apple's consumer notebook strategy and where I do 100% agree with Microsoft in their "Life with out walls" campaign. People do want a little more flexibility. And all any fanboi does is throw a huge hissy fit when some suggests Apple could be more flexible. Its like soviet russia. I must follow 100% and I obviously disagree with communism if I suggest one point to improve it.

I do think these ads are stupid and sorta lame. But on the other hand is big win with these threads full of spin, lies, and huge hissy fits. It just further proves that Apple is like BMW and most don't want to be associated with people that look down. Alot of people might dream about a BMW, but even rich people buy a Ford or a Hyundai to not be seen as snotty...
Some of you say it doesn't matter... but it matters enough for you to appearently get upset about it and ridicule them.

I mean you would think Microsoft raped your children the deep hatred you have for them. Its like your goal is to topple their marketshare but then you argue in a circle that it isn't what Apple wants and the Apple is premium. Which one is it? Is Apple Premium and Microsoft Windows always the somewhat inferior but for the masses or is Apple gonna change its strategy and actually overtake Windows?

I just know I hate fanbois and I know Steve Jobs hates them too...

Originally Posted by Quadra 610

3D apps?

You mean GAMES. GAMES aren't "3D apps."

Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.

Macs were BORN to run Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and all the Pro grade "3D Apps" out there. Macs run all the graphics-intensive apps we need. And they are the industry standard. Macs are all about 3D apps.

Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson

As a long long time Windows user and Mac owner I think it's about time Microsoft started advertising their strengths. I think this article sounds like someone with sour grapes. Like the Apple ads are any more truthful. I have always enjoyed them. I think they are funny, but truthful they are not. The Microsoft ads are very accurate. You can buy an excellent Windows laptop, for less then the price of a Mac mini, that will last a long time. My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).

I personally have never felt comfortable in an Apple store. Most people I meet there seem to feel they are better then anyone that owns a Windows machine.

I have virtually no problems with Windows or the Mac but I spend a lot of time helping others on both. Mac owners can mess up their machines just as well as a Windows user.

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Everyone keeps mentioning the virus costs. There are several options on Windows that are free, including not running any (I don't run any on my home machines) I do scan my server drives for virus's (I've yet to find one except in e-mail attachments). You can get a virus/trojan on a Mac.

Open Office works quite well on Windows and Macs and it's free. You can use Neo Office on the Mac which is Open Office compiled as a native Mac app.

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Life without walls is Life without restrictions or Life without boundaries. But then your [sic] just being an idiot.

The funny thing, as idiotic as the adverts are they have won on two points. Number one, everyone including every apple blog/forum is talking about them. I mean, its great viral marketing to keep discussing them. Now next time some mac users go shopping they may have point number two nagging at them.

Number two is the value of PCs. This Sony Vaio FW is a great laptop with ATI 3650 (comparable to the Nvidia 9600) is scable upto 2.9 Ghz and 8GB of Ram. Comes with an optional large 8 hours battery (5.5 hour default). Comes with 1920x1080 screen and Blu-ray. Hell a Blu-ray drive for a Mac will set you back like $400... the base on www.sonystyle.com which comes with free Blu-ray is only $839. Even if I go all the way upto 2.9 Ghz (the base is 2.0 Ghz) I am still only $1699. So the value is extremely clear if you are in the market for a 16" or 17" laptop. Is Mac OS X worth over $1000? Hell you could get a Mac Mini and still come out better...

So we as Apple users really should just ignore it... attacking it makes us look elitist and just further gives more free publicity.

Apple needs to decide if they want to continue to be a premium brand and how to market it. Or honestly I think they could come down in price.

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...

Originally Posted by Adjei

What a freaking dunce, so these Vaio's here are cheaper than Macs:

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921644577896

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154

http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...tegoryId=16154

What a clueless idiot..

Originally Posted by rtyqwe

The 3rd "comparison" drove me crazy!

they've listed the update of iLife or other software for MAC
but forget to list out the upgrades for WINDOWS and OFFICE!!!

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Really... all you could do is find 3 computers out of all those models you think are more expensive? Thats it...

Well... the Z series (as I mentioned before). Is 1600x900 pixels at 13.1 in screen. Apple doesn't offer those extra pixels on a 13" notebook do they? In addition it also comes standard with Mobile Broadband... something Apple also doesn't offer on any computer.

The TT Series... is 11 in. Apple does not compete against that computer.

About the LV series desktop, I will say those are expensive. They are truely the only computing product that Sony sells that does appear to be more expensive then Apple. I will note comparibly they really are about the same price and same cpu speed. The high end on both sides are around 3.0ghz with 1TB hard drive. However the Sony does come with a TV Tuner and Blu-ray and both really are marketed as an All in one that you hang on the wall as possibly a TV replacement. As such they are different the other All in ones in the fact it doesn't really have a chin and is thinner then the iMac.

For the majority of Sony Vaio purchases, it will be cheaper than Apple or you are getting features that Apple does not offer such as 11" or a 1600x900 13" display.

So your assertion that Sony Vaio is more expensive and that the FW in this advert was a 'one off' is completely false.

Originally Posted by res08hao

anybody stupid enough to buy windows deserve what they get. the money they save can be used to pay the trailer park rent.

Originally Posted by Adjei

You are so clueless it ain't even funny, I said the Sony Vaios have around the same price as Macs and in some cases even more, show me where Sony offers a 600 dollar desktop like Apple does. You want to cherry pick a few models to show that the Vaios are some cheap computers, don't make me laugh.

Originally Posted by marcopolo

Why is MS spending all this money comparing hardware? Shouldn't they compare Vista/Windows 7 with OSX? They don't make computers. Apple makes both. Is HP, Dell, Asus, Lenovo, et al helping fund these ads? I'd like to see the OS comparison, including price and the ease of buying and using and features of one OS vs another that has 7 iterations. Maybe only 6 if you eliminate pure business and focus on pure home users. That would compare MS to Apple. Not these ads. Why isn't HP et al running their own ads? What's the cost of MS's OS vs. Apple's OS? What's the cost of OS upgrades?
As an earlier post said, it you want to go hardware and home built, why exclude Linux. Damn OS is free!! Why do the buyers in the ad's always seem to pick HP? Isn't Dell pissed, or Asus, Lenovo etc?

Originally Posted by Dlux

It's as if everything and everyone associated with Microsoft has a pathological tendency towards mediocrity - it simply cannot be helped. And good old Steve Ballmer serves as the pinnacle of it all.

Originally Posted by DJinTX

I think this would actually have the opposite affect. The upside of Apple allowing their OS on any machine, would certainly be to allow people to buy very inexpensive hardware, and enjoy Mac OS X.

However, the downsides are huge. Number one is the philosophy that Macs work so well because the hardware and software were designed from day one to all work together. Going through the normal R&D process and thorough testing, Apple decides on specific hardware component combinations to avoid problems. Certain issues inevitably arise during R&D and testing, and then they make changes. Apple wouldn't be able to control this part of the process for other companies' hardware, and the exeprience would suffer for OS X users. If packard bell or Acer or Dell can slap OS X on any of their crappy laptops or desktops, suddenly you start seeing major driver incompatibility issues, cheap components used that don't work properly, and a major "bag of hurt" all the way around. That would ba a nightmare for Apple customer satisfaction, and for Apple Tech Support, not to mention their overall image a future success.

If Apple keeps it all in house, designing it all to work well together, they can control to a large degree how their products are perceived, and how successful they are, and their users win in this situation. That is one of the reasons I use Macs. I don't need Apple to lure a huge army of PC converts to justify my purchase.

Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek

Free antivirus doesn't work as well as paid antivirus, the same way a free healthcare clinic isn't as thorough as a real hospital. If you have a real problem, you're going to need the hospital anyways. It's just plain idiotic to run Windows without antivirus, unless you're completely disconnected from any networks and have no optical/magnetic media. No, Macs don't just "get" viruses and trojans. In order to successfully infect a Mac the same way that Windows machines are constantly infected, it would take real concrete social engineering and/or physical access to the machine. I've used Macs for years now, still no malware. Keep talking. Reality speaks for itself.

Originally Posted by tigerpro

There is an even bigger story here than how Microsoft has resorted to lame tactics...

...that they are even using tactics at all.

Apple has come a long way in the short six or seven years since I switched. Microsoft has shifted from ignoring Apple to competing with her. That is the real news here. We have only come to see Microsoft actually investing money to market their products against the Mac within the last twelve months or so (definitely gives credibility to Apple as a rising competitor).

Originally Posted by xpc

There is an Apple tax? Christ, thought I only had to worry about the IRS....

Actually some Apple "business decisions" I don't like at all (mini-DP or mini-anything when regular would fit just as well).

Report is fluff, disclaimer at the bottom says so - and it already left out the rest of computing (broadband, peripherals, etc - that are likely to be upgraded or serviced, new software, etc.)

That said tho, I'd like to see a more accurate comparison not made on a price basis, but some sort of side by side enthusiasts (that know their systems and software) made as equal as possible, right down to adding the questionable AV to the Mac as a background process - then give them a complex series of tasks (again using cross platform) - keep it within reason price wise, an accurate budget for everything would be around $5k (peripherals too).

Then go back and let each side use the same hardware systems in the configs and with the software they see fit to get the same task done - keeping all other things equal. (and off the shelf)

Finally, a $5k budget (pc) vs a $5k budget (mac) for any config to get the same tasks done. (would be nice to include Linux in there in a task-competitive enviro somehow)

By the way, is the sales rep chasing folks into a parking lot with a wad of cash a west coast thing? They don't do that in the midwest...

Originally Posted by camroidv27

Since I'm fed up with reading all the MS bashing (not that I actually LIKE their OS, but am forced to use it at work) and even more so the elitist attitudes of saying that certain people shouldn't use Apple products due to stereotypical reasons, I offer up a third alternative.

I would LOVE to see a Linux ad. People are fed up with Windows and Microsoft's way of programing bloat and business. Others are fed up with the prices of Apple products and Apple's iron fist of control. Bring on the free alternatives.

Originally Posted by vinea

Here you go:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/services.php

Linux makes a cameo:

http://tv.truenuff.com/mac/upgrading.php

Originally Posted by Rot'nApple

I]Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.[/I]


Don't tell Apple iPhone users that! The all time top 20 paid apps and the all time top 20 free apps, 40 all time top apps in all are categorized "Games"!

Maybe Apple should consider an economical gaming Mac computer based on the "iPhone technology" since their are fewer software games being written for OS X? I guess, I dunno.

But wait, but wait, OS X runs windows people can buy "games" and run them on windows. Sure, but I thought we were talking about the Mac experience. Mac needs OS X to run Windows in order to play the games that Mac users can care less about and yet buy an Apple product namely the iPhone that makes a ton of apps in broad categories like business, utility, games, etc. and the Apple iPhone games app take 20 of the 40 slots in Top Apps downloaded?!

Games may not be as "dirty" a word for Apple Macs as one might think, but I feel a flaming coming on... : (

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

MOST Sony Vaios are cheaper not "around the same price". I gave you a list and most were in the $800 to $1600 range. Apple notebooks start at $999 and go to $2800. How is that "around the same price". Did you take maths at school?

Sony Vaio doesn't offer headless desktops any longer. So they wouldn't be competing against the Apple Mac Mini.

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Just proves you are an idiot. Go to www.sonystyle.com and look at the model referenced in the advert and by me. You will see is quite cheaper than Apple.

So all your points and laughs are just utter failure.

Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson

As a long long time Windows user and Mac owner I think it's about time Microsoft started advertising their strengths. I think this article sounds like someone with sour grapes. Like the Apple ads are any more truthful. I have always enjoyed them. I think they are funny, but truthful they are not. The Microsoft ads are very accurate. You can buy an excellent Windows laptop, for less then the price of a Mac mini, that will last a long time. My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).

I personally have never felt comfortable in an Apple store. Most people I meet there seem to feel they are better then anyone that owns a Windows machine.

I have virtually no problems with Windows or the Mac but I spend a lot of time helping others on both. Mac owners can mess up their machines just as well as a Windows user.

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Everyone keeps mentioning the virus costs. There are several options on Windows that are free, including not running any (I don't run any on my home machines) I do scan my server drives for virus's (I've yet to find one except in e-mail attachments). You can get a virus/trojan on a Mac.

Open Office works quite well on Windows and Macs and it's free. You can use Neo Office on the Mac which is Open Office compiled as a native Mac app.

Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Originally Posted by lilgto64

For those who mention viruses - the last time I saw one on the Mac was about 15 or 20 years ago. On the PC side I have spent many hours cleaning systems which are so infected with so much malware that in one case after three days of running multiple software products multiple times - there was still one infectious item that spread the the rest of my network before I found the right tool for that particular problem.

All in all I am actually glad that there are so many PCs out there and that they have so many problems - this week alone I have five different PCs that need to be worked on - which makes me some extra money - which helps pay for things like upgrading the hard drive in my Mac or getting a new iPhone.

Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

You are still an idiot...
Sony Z series (13" 1600x900 display, Mobile Broadband) starting at $1699.99
Sony SR series (13" 1280x800) starting at $1049.99
Sony CS series 14" starting at $789.99
Sony NS series 15" starting at $779.99
Sony FW Series (16" with free Blu-ray) starting at $839.99
Sony AW Series 18" starting at $1424.99

Even configured to match Apple specs the notebooks are cheaper than Apple. I did not mention the 8 or 11" as Apple does not compete at these sizes. Sony quality is generally high end. I did own one a few years ago and was generally pleased. The only replacement was a battery and it was US English support.

Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...