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Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad - Page 6

post #201 of 337
On it goes...
post #202 of 337
While memory, hard drive space... matter, are these things really on your mind when you are shopping for a computer? I'm looking for something that feels fast, does what I need it to do, stays out of the way so that I'm not thinking about using a computer, doesn't break down on me and has a long useful life. I honestly don't know or care how much RAM is in the computer that I'm currently using.

I have a PC which I use for scientific applications that are unavailable on the Mac and a Mac for doing pretty much everything else. The Mac is easier to use and the difference in price is more than made up for by that fact. The box specs only tell a story that I doubt the average person needs to hear.
post #203 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Halvri View Post

Just a quick question: you do realize that packing too many pixels into too small of a screens makes things invariably harder to see, right?

It also makes it easier to get work done if you can make the palettes as small as possible to make more room for the actual document.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heulenwolf View Post

Of the many implications of a commercial like this, the most true one is that you have more options to chose from when getting a Windows-based machine. Recently, Apple has been restructuring its product line to accommodate more users but it can't and isn't trying to compete on options. If you want a Mac laptop, there are 3 choices. Whether analyst or commercial studies properly tally up all the costs of ownership is irrelevant to this point. If your budget is X and you've decided you want a laptop or a desktop, there is usually only one Apple system that meets your needs. If you don't like the choices Apple made in the design of that one option or it doesn't fit your needs, you're out of luck. On the one hand, that situation of reduced choice strikes many folks as simpler, especially if they don't have a simple user category they fit in. On the other hand, if they know more about what they want to do with the system, Apple may or may not have accommodated their needs in that one choice. One the windows side, there is a dizzying array of choices accommodating many needs and user categories given a budget and a choice of desktop vs laptop. If you're willing to sift through, you may be able to get something that better meets your needs.

Those choices are what led last week to my wife buying what is the only non-Apple computer I've ever had in my house. She bought an HP laptop because it offered her what she needed from the hardware, and no Apple product has any of the features on her "must-have' list. She doesn't even like Windows either, and she's actually a little annoyed that Apple essentially "forced" her to go PC.


Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

And I find it completely ridiculous that for a family with two kids running Office and Quicken they'd pick the MAC PRO as the desktop model to compare instead of the iMac or even the mini. Gee, you think if you pick the most expensive pro model on one side and a consumer machine on the other there won't be a difference in price?

As a price category, no it's not fair at all. But as a realistic comparison of what people are actually looking for in a computer, it is. For most people, if they are looking for a desktop computer, they are looking for a tower. The Mac Pro is the only tower Apple makes.
post #204 of 337
This is Kay's website:
http://www.ndpta.com/
it's as bad as the report
post #205 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

My family currently has 3 HP laptops that are 5 years old and two Dell laptops that are 2 years old. Total investment for all 5 laptops $3000.00. My daughter also has a Mac Book provided by the school she teaches at; $2000.00 for one laptop (it's no better then my two year old Dell).

Something smells fishy. 5 Years ago laptops were more expensive than they are now. A lot more. If you got three laptops five years ago, and two laptops two years ago, you'd have spent a lot more than an average of $600 per laptop.

Then you claim a MacBook costs $2000.

Your cost figures sound as bogus as this report we're discussing.
post #206 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

I]Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.[/I]


Don't tell Apple iPhone users that! The all time top 20 paid apps and the all time top 20 free apps, 40 all time top apps in all are categorized "Games"!

Hmm... So what you are saying that the video card on the iPhone seems to be enough to satisfy users?

This is moot point. Console games are the future. Game developers are tired of the piracy and are abandoning the PC. The iPhone is considered a console.
post #207 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

This whole campaign is based on the premise that the recession will last a long time. When things start to turn the premise becomes weaker.

Agreed. What these jokers also don't understand is that a recession doesn't matter if you need a computer, have chosen a Mac, and can afford it. They're not going to settle just because there is a recession.
post #208 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

What I find strange is, microsoft owns 99.99% of the business market, virtually every business that has computers are running it on windows. Not to mention they still have over 90% of the operating system market on the consumer side, so why are they displaying such fear and grit towards Apple?

I will never truly understand Microsoft, they make way more money than Apple, have more of a foothold in business clients/servers, yet they feel it necessary to attack Apple products in such a way, this just looks like all kinds of greed. If they don't have 100% of the market/products they are not satisfied.

... and you would never guess Microsoft campaign is response to Apple making jokes on Microsoft behalf in most of their "Get a Mac" ads in the last couple of years..?

Mac users are very annoyed after only 3 new MS ads. How much do you think Microsoft leaders are annoyed after, what? 30+ ads from Apple?
post #209 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I personally get a kick out of buying something at the Apple store and as the sales clerk is knocking something about Windows I ask them how they like using Windows Mobile on their handheld point of sale device. Seems like the iPhone or iPod touch should be capable enough, but they must not be.

Spoke too soon, didn't you? I knew they were working on a point of sale solution as soon as I heard about 3.0's USB and Bluetooth APIs. I was going to mention it in my last reply to your ignorant comment, but I omitted it to save time. I knew that getting those Windows Mobile monstrosities out of Apple's retail stores was one of Jobs' top priorities. I knew the only thing holding it back was the card reading hardware.

You fail.
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post #210 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UltimateKylie

Might I add that Sony invented the so called 'chiklet' keyboard that supposedly Apple has 'popularized' and is featured on all Macs...

Early Commodore Pets had chiklet keyboards in the mid '80s; but I'm not sure what this has to do with this topic.
post #211 of 337
Went to Dell.com and specd out a 2.4 Ghz Studio XPS 13 Laptop with Vista® Ultimate, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb HD, some essential software for migration, office and anti-virus along with 3 year warranty. The total cost came out as $2025 (including a few discounts).

Now going to Apple's Education store (face it you are probably get this for a kid or student anyway)
A similar spec MacBook 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM 320Gb HD, 3 year apple care, +iWorks +Bento works out at $1929.

So that thats PC TAX of roughly 5% before you even get it home.

There should be an advert 'Get yourself a decent laptop which you can use and is going to last your more than 3 years for under $2000'

Thinking about it, it's actually in Microsoft interest to sell you a crap computer so you will have to replace it every year, the only problem is that people a have worked this out and the alternatives are a lot better. People don't what to shut up and put up any more. PCs are cheap for a reason, they just don't last.
post #212 of 337
It is obvious that Mr. Kay has never used a Mac. Apple tax? - are you kidding? On the contrary Mr Kay, what about the Microsoft taxes in the form of all the time required to just keep the Windows system running, the cost and time for the Geek Squad calls to clean it of viruses not to mention the cost of the antivirus and security software and yearly renewals.

Mac users have none of that and are much more productive. A Mac simply works. No annoying MS crap to get in the way of your work. So which would you choose - daily frustration using Windows or the pleasant experience of using a Mac. The 13 Million people who bought Mac computers in 2008 see the pleasure of using a Mac as priceless.

Mr. Kay - you should be ashamed of yourself writing such an inaccurate story. What would your mother say? Now go to your room.

JoeCoolDaddio
post #213 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Atkinson View Post

I'm a user for 27+ years no virus yet for me.

Right... First of all, Windows has only been around for what, 24 years now? Even so, most people didn't use it until at least version 3.0, which was around 1993. In any case, it doesn't matter how long you've used Windows, it doesn't change the fact that you're a liar. Even if you think you haven't had a virus, you wouldn't know because, as you've stated, you don't run antivirus.

Why is it that people like to assume that Mac users are ignorant of Windows? I know a lot of "switchers" who spent years on WIndows before making their way to the Mac. I happen to be one of them. You can't lie to me about what Windows is and is not. The best way to describe the way I feel about Windows is to compare it to a truck stop hooker, running from truck to truck, sucking off one dirty trucker after another. Keep the herpes, please.

Two years ago, I had a MacBook Pro that I bought for $1,600 that I KNOW would rape your Dell. Aside from that, you're either intentionally leaving out the things that the MacBook has that your Dell doesn't, or you're completely ignorant to their existence. I'm leaning towards the ignorance.

Lies or ignorance, which one is it? I'm serious. I can't tell the difference.
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post #214 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

First post? Sure, you don't work for Redmond... Don't feel comfortable in an Apple Store? You obviously have an inferiority complex, because I know I wouldn't give a damn if I saw you there. Then again, I would be uncomfortable in an Apple Store if I worked for Microsoft, too.

Don't know about that guy, but here in NZ, you can bet you'll find group of Paris Hilton wannabe young teen girls, with make up and wardrobe mostly inappropriate for their age, discussing colours of iPod Nano or something else equally irrelevant. I also feel a bit silly browsing among such audience, but hey - that is part of clients Apple attracts with their image.

Quote:
A two year old Dell is better than a $2,000 MacBook? First of all, you don't give any information about either, other than a vague description of the age of the Dell and the price of the MacBook. That doesn't tell anyone anything. I highly doubt that any two year old Dell notebook is better than a $2,000 MacBook of any age.

It tells a man is more comfortable and is achieving what he needs with less effort and time on Dell than on Mac... for example; so for him, Dell is better than Mac. If you don't have problem with anyone saying Dual Core iMac is better than Quad Core Dell, you should have no problem with this as well. Computing experience is very personal. What works for one not necessarily works for the other.

Quote:
No, Mac owners do not "mess up" their machines anywhere near as bad, and often, as PC users. I've spent a LOT more time fixing the PCs in my family than the Macs, and most of my family owns Macs these days.

Maybe you are not fixing those PCs well? Just a thought...

Quote:
You know just as damn well as I do that there's probably back-end proprietary credit card merchant software that requires Windows. It has nothing to do with whether an iPhone of iPod Touch is better than Windows Mobile, because all of us here in the real world know damn well that Windows mobile is garbage. I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot stylus. I have a Blackberry and an iPhone. I can hardly stand to use the Blackberry, but I'm not allowed to have the iPhone on an employee plan. Windows Mobile and Blackberry devices are so damn slow and clunky.

All of you in real Macworld, you mean. Still there were people who needed copy/paste and video recording on their phones before Apple decided they need it.

Quote:
Free antivirus doesn't work as well as paid antivirus, the same way a free healthcare clinic isn't as thorough as a real hospital. If you have a real problem, you're going to need the hospital anyways. It's just plain idiotic to run Windows without antivirus, unless you're completely disconnected from any networks and have no optical/magnetic media. No, Macs don't just "get" viruses and trojans. In order to successfully infect a Mac the same way that Windows machines are constantly infected, it would take real concrete social engineering and/or physical access to the machine. I've used Macs for years now, still no malware. Keep talking. Reality speaks for itself.

Free AV is working perfectly fine enough for a home user. And Apple is recommending their users to have AV installed on Macs. Guess that unpopular message must have been launched by some MS mole deep inside Apple's headquarters..?

Quote:
OpenOffice produces poor quality documents. Then again, so does Office. iWork, however, creates very elegant documents and it's very easy to use. Office is okay, but I prefer iWork. OpenOffice is garbage. Harder to use and messy looking documents. Most open source software is too damn generic. For example, The GIMP.

Err... yeah, right.

You do realize in real real world iWork is not even considered business grade office software? But for making colourful school assignments, I'm sure it is perfectly suitable

And messy documents are usually product of messy user. Learn how to do proper formatting on any document editing software and you'll get tidy results.
post #215 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

Kay's report is the biggest pile of steaming crap I have ever seen! Better research has come out of a dog's ass. It's Microsoft sponsored so it's clearly just BS.

His figures for the 'Apple tax' are complete nonsense. Where are the thousands of $ a PC user has to spend on anti virus software, tech support, basic software like Preview and iMovie along with their time which the computer will waste when it breaks, crashes and needs reinstalling?

Also the microsoft windowsteamblog site it so badly made it won't let Macs using firefox 3 or Safari post comments - no doubt this is deliberate as it would expose the lies.

I feel like throwing my Xbox 360 at Steve Ballmer's head!

My, you are completely clueless.

Instead of throwing 360 at Ballmer's head, better spend some time educating yourself before you post things you have not a single puny little idea about.
post #216 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Playing simple games on an iPhone is far different from gaming on a PC or Mac.

The main selling point for Macs has never, ever been gaming. We don't buy them for gaming. So what's left? An amazing, integrated user experience on OS X. THAT is what we care about. There are far cheaper options when it comes to a gaming rig.

Mac users (or prospective users) who clamour for games and complain endlessly about hardware that is otherwise unnecessary in the OS X ecosystem just so they can have their games are barking up the wrong tree.

Well GOOD MORNING, VIETNAM!!!

Of course you don't buy Macs for gaming - there are almost no games for Mac. Not even the most dedicated Apple acolyte would find excuse to buy Mac for gaming.

But many of you do buy and bootcamp Windows on Mac because of gaming.

So what is your point?
post #217 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Good luck finding the drivers to upgrade your Vaio to any future version of Windows!

No need for luck there. I haven't seen PC hardware up to 5 years old that does not work with Vista... and I've seen a lot of hardware. Since W7 will be compatible on drivers' level with Vista, same trend will continue.

Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?
post #218 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Thousands of $$ dumped on WinMo devices here over the years. I was so happy to dump them all when the iPhone debuted. Can you imagine, a hand-held web browser that's actually good for something?



How do you know?

Because... he never had any signs of virus infection, maybe..?

Oh, wait - he must have a few dozens of those highly deadly viruses that do nothing at all!!!
post #219 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Uh huh. And you just happened to be motivated to register on an Apple enthusiast site, concurrent with and in order to basically repeat the latest MS ad campaign points, even though you don't really like such environments.

27 years and no viruses? Bullshit. You're a shill.

You don't know the guy, don't know anything about him - and you call him a liar just because he said something not in line with your vision of real world?

Your parents haven't done great job at all...
post #220 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No need for luck there. I haven't seen PC hardware up to 5 years old that does not work with Vista... and I've seen a lot of hardware. Since W7 will be compatible on drivers' level with Vista, same trend will continue.

Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?

What you really mean is: Yes.

We have 5 year old Macs that work fine with Leopard (there is no Snow Leopard yet). In fact, the iMac G4/1.0 17" was introduced in Feb 2003, and that's over 6 years ago. And it's fully supported by Leopard, and runs just great. My kids get hand-me-down hardware, and it just keeps working and working and working. And getting better with each new OS release - which conveniently comes in affordable family packs.

And if you're really saying you haven't seen 5 year old PC hardware that can't run Vista, you're either a fking liar, or ignorant beyond belief. Go read a few articles instead of coming in here and leaving post after post of troll bullshit.
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post #221 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

You don't know the guy, don't know anything about him - and you call him a liar just because he said something not in line with your vision of real world?

Your parents haven't done great job at all...

No, I called him a liar because his post was pretty much a compendium of MS talking points, he apparently chose to register on a Mac enthusiast site even though he specifically stated that he disliked our company, and he made some highly suspect claims about his experience of Windows as a pristine nirvana.

I have to ask myself why someone who is enjoying using their PCs would ever see the need to seek out Mac users to school them in the error of their ways.

You, on the other hand, without knowing me, have elected to question how I was raised, based on my failure to conform to your vision of the world.

Which just makes you an asshole.
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post #222 of 337
All your astroturfist are belong to Nikon133..
post #223 of 337
So they (MS) are saying that they themselves find Apple Premium products? Finally for the first time in the history they are correct about something.

They are so scared that they attack the "premiumness" and "glossyness" without thinking, cleary. The meeting about this went probably by throwing chairs 'round the office.

Anyway, it would've make, although factually incorrect, if they told us how NOT premium Apple is, stating that every pc has WiFi, and more connectivity and that they are pretty as well and that Apple just is a Intel PC with a nice case wrapped around it.
post #224 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

See, now, this is the kind of thing that really frustrates me. I've heard it I don't know how many times from PC users. And yet, I don't know a single Mac user who thinks like this. Not one.

That was one of my reasons for getting a Mac and an iPOD, iPhone etc. Lots of people want stuff that is better than things other people have and Apple products fall into that category like designer hardware. Lets face it Macs have always cost more and your paying for a name and the case it comes in.
post #225 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?

Yes! To name a few:

The Quicksilver PowerMac G4 867Ghz introduced in July 2001 (almost 8 years ago!!!) can run Leopard

The Aluminium PowerBook G4 introduced in January 2003 867Mhz - 1Ghz (6 years old) runs it along with the previous Titanium PowerBook G4 867Mhz - 1Ghz from November 2002

The iMac G4 1Ghz introduced in February 2003 also can run Leopard.

It would appear that all Macs released after April 2004 can run Leopard.
post #226 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

Went to Dell.com and specd out a 2.4 Ghz Studio XPS 13 Laptop with Vista® Ultimate, 4Gb RAM, 320Gb HD, some essential software for migration, office and anti-virus along with 3 year warranty. The total cost came out as $2025 (including a few discounts).

Now going to Apple's Education store (face it you are probably get this for a kid or student anyway)
A similar spec MacBook 2.4 Ghz, 4Gb RAM 320Gb HD, 3 year apple care, +iWorks +Bento works out at $1929.

So that thats PC TAX of roughly 5% before you even get it home.

There should be an advert 'Get yourself a decent laptop which you can use and is going to last your more than 3 years for under $2000'

Thinking about it, it's actually in Microsoft interest to sell you a crap computer so you will have to replace it every year, the only problem is that people a have worked this out and the alternatives are a lot better. People don't what to shut up and put up any more. PCs are cheap for a reason, they just don't last.

That's a somewhat bogus comparison since you're comparing a heavily discounted product against one that isn't really discounted at all. You'll need to tell us the price of the Mac without any educational discount before this is a credible comparison. My guess is it becomes a lot more expensive.

EDIT - It looks like it's $2121.95 for the Mac, which gives it a small premium over the Dell offering. Hmmm, and somehow the Dell I configured comes to $1567 which includes the same spec as the MacBook, same 3 years warranty, and Microsoft Office. So it seems you pay about a $600 premium for the Mac, which is a good 40% or so - no amount of unibody or OSX is worth that much IMO! I'd rather stick with Windows than be $600 worse off (DISCLAIMER - this is my opinion, and may vary from others).
post #227 of 337
It's quite funny that people continue to complain that they can't afford to buy a Mac and that this is somehow Apple's fault for not selling them a substandard product or one at a heavy lose.

To be blunt it's your problem for not saving properly for the computer you really want. Not looking for discounts say on the Apple educational store or at refurbished products, or even on ebay.
post #228 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

That's a somewhat bogus comparison

Where do Dell offer Ed discounts? Their site is pretty bad to find anythings, I was actually trying to find an Adamo to compare with an MacBook Air but gave up looking and stuck with the latitude.

It did take me about 10x longer to spec out the Dell and to find out things like it's weight and actual screen res than the MacBook.

Even if it is bogus, it's still less bogus than the so called 'professional' report since both are quite close on price and not out by $1000's over 5 years
post #229 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

It's quite funny that people continue to complain that they can't afford to buy a Mac and that this is somehow Apple's fault for not selling them a substandard product or one at a heavy lose.

To be blunt it's your problem for not saving properly for the computer you really want. Not looking for discounts say on the Apple educational store or at refurbished products, or even on ebay.

I'd really love to own a Mac because I love the style. However, I can't bring myself to spend so much on a computer I know I could build myself for half the price and do the same/more things on it. When Apple offer more reasonable prices where I don't feel like I'm being ripped off, I'll buy one then
post #230 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I'd really love to own a Mac because I love the style. However, I can't bring myself to spend so much on a computer I know I could build myself for half the price and do the same/more things on it. When Apple offer more reasonable prices where I don't feel like I'm being ripped off, I'll buy one then

Macs are not just a fancy case, they are combination of hardware and software which is built to work together. Apple's prices ARE reasonable.

I doubt you'll be able to build a computer for half the price that does the same things (+ these imaginary 'more' things). Why don't you also factor your time into this endeavor unless you value it at zero? Maybe if you spent this time working and getting paid you might not find Macs expensive.
post #231 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Something smells fishy. 5 Years ago laptops were more expensive than they are now. A lot more. If you got three laptops five years ago, and two laptops two years ago, you'd have spent a lot more than an average of $600 per laptop.

Then you claim a MacBook costs $2000.

Your cost figures sound as bogus as this report we're discussing.

Five years 3 months ago I bought 3 HP laptops with AMD 2400 processors for $599 each and got a 10% discount on them. Two years 6 months ago a bought a Dell laptop for $425 and two years 4 months ago I bought another Dell for 1015. I'm sorry I underestimated the total. It was actually $3060.00.

I don't know the exact numbers on the Macbook. I only know what I was told and I was told $2000.00. I know that two years ago you needed to spend more money then you do now to get a 250 gig hard disk, 2 gig of ram and a faster processor. I do not know all the options that were selected at the Apple store and it was with an academic discount.
post #232 of 337
Over the past 6-7 years Apple has managed two Major architectural transitions which are contributing to is current success. First was the move from Mac OS 9 to Mac OS X. The following five subsequent releases of OS X would often improve performance of software running on the same hardware. Secondly the move from PowerPC to Intel processors. Both of these were big moves and have clearly made the Mac a better platform for it's users.

Meanwhile Microsoft has been battling for 10 years with buggy half assed releases of Windows 98, Me, 2000, XP, now Vista and soon 7. During this whole process they have done little in the way of making things any better for it's users. Instead they have bloated the OS making it run slow on existing hardware and added features which are highly annoying and inconvenient, Microsoft Genuine Advantage anyone? Windows still looks like a dog's ass, crashes lots, is plagued with viruses, Internet Explorer sucks and the whole thing needs reinstalling every 6 months.

It's clear that Apple's track record is just so much better than Microsoft's. Buying a PC is just a waste, as once you have it no one cares, not the shop which you brought it from (unless you want to pay for the Nerd Hurd), the manufacturer or Microsoft, you're stuffed! Further PC's change so often and are randomly spec out so you are unlikely to ever find someone with the same model and hence share knowledge.

Apple has a history of supporting it's products. Every product the company has ever released is clearly documented on Apple's website, Wikipedia and numinous other sites, No other PC company can claim this. Apple products have a community and there will be 1000's of other people online with the same kit. Finally Apple has expanding network of retail stores staffed by people who know and care the Mac.
post #233 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

Macs are not just a fancy case, they are combination of hardware and software which is built to work together. Apple's prices ARE reasonable.

I doubt you'll be able to build a computer for half the price that does the same things (+ these imaginary 'more' things). Why don't you also factor your time into this endeavor unless you value it at zero? Maybe if you spent this time working and getting paid you might not find Macs expensive.

I'd argue they weren't reasonable when I could build the same spec PC for almost half the price, and it perform the same and/or better than the Mac does. To me, that's unreasonable. I'm happy to factor in a margin of 10-15% on top of the cost of components for Apple to keep, but anymore and I think they're simply ripping people off. Their $20billion bank account clearly demonstrates they have plenty of cash to spare, so could easily reduce the price of their hardware without much bother.

If you were putting together a PC you'd be doing it in your own time anyway - it's not as if you'd take a days unpaid leave from work to do it! Or are you suggesting that every minute of everyday you are doing paid work? If that was a consideration anyway, you'd just buy a (still cheaper) Dell or something since it arrives all built
post #234 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

I'd argue they weren't reasonable when I could build the same spec PC for almost half the price, and it perform the same and/or better than the Mac does. To me, that's unreasonable.

The pricing of a product is set by the supplier. It's up to them set the price which allows them to continue as a business and supply a product which the buyer can have confidence in.

Your idea of buying components introduces a large element of risk. The completed computer may not function as expected and leaves you with little recourse.
post #235 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by UbiquitousGeek View Post

Right... First of all, Windows has only been around for what, 24 years now? Even so, most people didn't use it until at least version 3.0, which was around 1993. In any case, it doesn't matter how long you've used Windows, it doesn't change the fact that you're a liar. Even if you think you haven't had a virus, you wouldn't know because, as you've stated, you don't run antivirus.

Why is it that people like to assume that Mac users are ignorant of Windows? I know a lot of "switchers" who spent years on WIndows before making their way to the Mac. I happen to be one of them. You can't lie to me about what Windows is and is not. The best way to describe the way I feel about Windows is to compare it to a truck stop hooker, running from truck to truck, sucking off one dirty trucker after another. Keep the herpes, please.

Two years ago, I had a MacBook Pro that I bought for $1,600 that I KNOW would rape your Dell. Aside from that, you're either intentionally leaving out the things that the MacBook has that your Dell doesn't, or you're completely ignorant to their existence. I'm leaning towards the ignorance.

Lies or ignorance, which one is it? I'm serious. I can't tell the difference.

I've been an IBM compatible user for 27+ years . There were virus's for DOS and you could get them from Floppies. I like how you ask "how do I know I don't have a virus because I don't run anti-virus software?". I would ask then the same thing of all the Mac users that don't run anti-virus software. If you have read my posts to this thread you should know that I do use anti-virus software. I just don't run it all the time on all my systems. I actually run it on one system and use it to scan all of my drives. I do not leave it running or installed. I do it about two times a year.

Please tell me what the Macbook has that my Dell doesn't, other then the nice break away magnetic power cord and OS X.
post #236 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

The pricing of a product is set by the supplier. It's up to them set the price which allows them to continue as a business and supply a product which the buyer can have confidence in.

Your idea of buying components introduces a large element of risk. The completed computer may not function as expected and leaves you with little recourse.

Well if part of it doesn't work, you send it back for replacement. That works just the same as sending an entire computer back.
post #237 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

No need for luck there. I haven't seen PC hardware up to 5 years old that does not work with Vista... and I've seen a lot of hardware. Since W7 will be compatible on drivers' level with Vista, same trend will continue.

Do 5 years old Macs work with Leopard and Snow Leopard..?

Answering your questions...

1. Leopard works on my wife's 4 1/2 yr old powerbook G4 just fine. A big improvement over the Panther that came with it. So the asnwer is yes.

2. As for snow leopard, it doesn't exist yet, except in a lab in Cupertino. Until it ships, anything can happen so we'll all have to stay tuned. My money says it will install fine on this PBG4.

post #238 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Their $20billion bank account clearly demonstrates they have plenty of cash to spare, so could easily reduce the price of their hardware without much bother.

I don't think that anyone would disagree with me stating that Apple have been very prudent in building up such as cash surplus over the past 10 years. Considering the current global economic environment this move has been proven very wise and places Apple in a better position to continue supporting it's customers in comparison to competitors.

Why should existing customers be subsidizing your purchase anyway?
post #239 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stashman View Post

I don't think that anyone would disagree with me stating that Apple have been very prudent in building up such as cash surplus over the past 10 years. Considering the current global economic environment this move has been proven very wise and places Apple in a better position to continue supporting it's customers in comparison to competitors.

Why should existing customers be subsidizing your purchase anyway?

Because if Apple want me to buy one of their computers, their exisiting customers will have to subsidise the price, because I'm not prepared to be ripped off. If they don't do that, I won't buy their products, and I will go on happily with the money in my pocket instead
post #240 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrochester View Post

Because if Apple want me to buy one of their computers, their exisiting customers will have to subsidise the price, because I'm not prepared to be ripped off. If they don't do that, I won't buy their products, and I will go on happily with the money in my pocket instead

...why are you on this forum?
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