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Microsoft pays for inaccurate "Apple Tax" study, issues 3rd TV ad - Page 2

post #41 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Call me a contrarian, but I am truly happy if Apple continues to stay below 10% or so in market share. Apple should continue to be a high value-low volume-high margin player.

Apple should just stay the course and not veer from its extremely successful strategy. If these stupid Microsoft ads help Apple rediscover - rather than run away from - that value proposition, that's fine by me.

I say that as both an Apple shareholder and an Apple customer.

Good point.
post #42 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

OS X, OS X, OS X.

THAT makes a Mac worth every damn penny.

The value of Windows? What value??

Is it the value of:

Running antivirus software
Slowdowns over time
Regular maintenance
A slipshod UI
Poorly integrated software
Messy interface
Badly designed software
A massive target for virus writers
Conficker (which is now awake, have fun! (Again))
Hardware/software compatibility issues
The worst browser in history, fully integrated into the OS (Bonus!)
HIG guidelines that are hardly ever followed
An OS that so obviously tries to be an ass-backwards, upside down clone of OS X
Running Crysis faster than the other basement shut-in living next door
And . . .

The happy knowledge that you come off looking cheap, and worse, a loser that secretly lusts after OS X . . . mostly because MS said so in their ads. Isn't that nice? If I were a Windows user I'd feel beyond insulted. It's a horrible image.

Lots of value there. I'd pay extra (a lot extra) just to avoid all of that.

WINDOWS 7 + OFFICE 14 + WINMO 7 is going to rock your world.

Performance. Elegance. Permanence.

Ballmer lost 20% of this generation to Steve Jobs, but the other Steve is fighting back with an army of 10,000 MIT grads with glasses. Lol.

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/

post #43 of 337
lol, they made the kid look at the cheapest mac...and the Mom said I'm not a PC, hahahahhahahaha. and I agree MS is sooo overreacting towards the Mac market when Mac users will buy Office and etc.
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post #44 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I prefer the second portrayal. Except you inserted the issue of race in there, where it didn't belong. Good job.

I can make fun of my whitey heritage can't I? I was making a point of stereotypes of elite rich white families like on shows such as Family Ties, Growing Pains and The Family Guy.
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post #45 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

3D apps?

You mean GAMES. GAMES aren't "3D apps."

Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.

Macs were BORN to run Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and all the Pro grade "3D Apps" out there. Macs run all the graphics-intensive apps we need. And they are the industry standard. Macs are all about 3D apps.

Are there any workstation grade graphics that do work on Mac Pro, anyway..?

nVidia Quadro, ATI FireGL/Fire PRO..?
post #46 of 337
I was helping a friend set up the wireless internet on his new sony computer, tha laptop look great but man it took toooo muuuuuuuuchhhh tiiiiiimeeeee to booooooth froooooooom sleeeeep i was really this is the newest system? my 5 year old Power Book wakes in seconds. this also afects on productivity, apple should use this for a ad.
post #47 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by checo View Post

I was helping a friend set up the wireless internet on his new sony computer, tha laptop look great but man it took toooo muuuuuuuuchhhh tiiiiiimeeeee to booooooth froooooooom sleeeeep i was really this is the newest system? my 5 year old Power Book wakes in seconds. this also afects on productivity, apple should use this for a ad.

Tell your friend to install Windows 7 Build 7068 x86. Awake from sleep <2 seconds.
post #48 of 337
I am typing this on my new MacBook Pro 17" Unibody. Up until a week ago I have only used PC/Windows my entire life. My favorite notebooks were Thinkpads which I still greatly admire. They too are quite costly, but you understand they are not the same as a base Dell. Just like a Miata is not a Porsche and doesn't pretend to be. These Microsoft ads could just as well fill in a Thinkpad for the Mac and get the same result (or any other quality PC).

I switched to the Macbook Pro after a year of pawing them in my local Apple store. What won me over is the fit and finish and interface. It began with Leopard. Then the beauty and feel of the Unibody construction and the wonderful touch pad (I am already dismayed when I have to use one of those antiquated PC style touchpads!).

It is hard to put a price on user enjoyment but I think it cost me about $400.

That is said because almost the identical computer is available from Dell as the Studio 17 for $2,356 (I swear it is almost identical-But not the same video card, and I added the Sony Imagination Software as an approximation of iLife). Unfortunately the Dell computer only comes with Windows for the price and no Unibody/Multitouch Trackpad. It ain't just a different nameplate.

I certainly didn't come to Macs to be "Cool". No one is cooler than the Blackberry/Thinkpad crowd. Those dudes Rock! And so goth in their stylish black.
post #49 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Funny thing is that had they done a "fair" comparison, there would STILL be an Apple tax, and Microsoft wouldn't have to lie about what Apple charges for products. But being greedy completely destroys the validity of the study and thus it's complete trash.

Granted, even I have a MacBook Pro and I try to avoid the "Apple" tax as best I can by buying on eBay or refurbished. Plus, everyone seems to forget that Apple products sell MUCH better on the 2nd hand market than any PC EVER will. This is probably because of the premium charged on Apple products.


I wouldn't call it an Apple "tax", it's more like an Apple "investment" that you could potentially get a positive return on if you play your cards right.

Does Acura have a "tax" over ford?
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post #50 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by iankanderson View Post

Gizmodo did a great article on the Apple Tax. Fair and balanced. Let's be honest there is one, but it seems to punish the low end buyers more so than the top end. It's more of a way for Apple to convince you to upgrade to the nicer model. This ensures two things... A. you'll be running their system on better equipment which leaves you with a better overall customer experience. B. you pay them more money. That's my overall take on it. Here's the article link.

http://gizmodo.com/5065133/the-truth...-the-apple-tax

This Apple tax is so incredibly lame. So because Macs cost more it means there's some hidden tax. Going by their logic everything in this world should cost the same. I wonder why Microsoft is charging more for software than Linux or why Office is more expensive than iwork or open office, what a bunch of idiots.
post #51 of 337
The freggin ad is payed by Microsoft so i don't think anyone was hoping for him to pick a Mac and if he did you wouldn't be seeing the ad
post #52 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Lots of issues with your post, but it is late and I am tired so here is a few:

a target fro viruses, sure, but that also means that there is a ton of Rand D and competition to find and remove them, if you were to write malware for the Mac, it would never get discovered until Symantec found it.

the hole that Conflicker hit was patched months before the malware came out, if someone exploits a hole in 10.5.2, that apple patched in 10.5.3 today, when we are on 10.5.6, is that still a black mark on Apple, or does it speak volumes about the users lack of running updates.

Yea, PCs have hardware issues, but it is a tradeoff, pc guys dont have to use a $3000 tower and $400 GPU to have a reasonable graphics experience for 3d apps

So you mean there are no PC towers that cost 3000 dollars, let me go and check.
post #53 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

See, now, this is the kind of thing that really frustrates me. I've heard it I don't know how many times from PC users. And yet, I don't know a single Mac user who thinks like this. Not one.

Do Mac users frequently look at a $300 PC and say, "That's a piece of crap"? ....

But the elitist thing is an asinine misrepresentation that does nothing other than fuel bigotries and polarize sides. I guess that's what it's meant to do, though...

Nicely put.
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post #54 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by DdubRes79 View Post

I can make fun of my whitey heritage can't I? I was making a point of stereotypes of elite rich white families like on shows such as Family Ties, Growing Pains and The Family Guy.

Hehe . . . well if you spin it THAT way . . .
post #55 of 337
I think Apple should change the I'm a Mac, I'm a PC theme and go for something different, and make Microsoft look foolish for copying it, idiots..
post #56 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerpro View Post

There is an even bigger story here than how Microsoft has resorted to lame tactics...

...that they are even using tactics at all.

Apple has come a long way in the short six or seven years since I switched. Microsoft has shifted from ignoring Apple to competing with her. That is the real news here...

Yes - interesting isn't it! \
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post #57 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxfree View Post

Tell your friend to install Windows 7 Build 7068 x86. Awake from sleep <2 seconds.

Is Windows 7 out already (besides beta)? If not, it is too early to state how fast Windows 7 will awake from sleep. I was battling the "awake problem" in Windows XP and Vista for years and switched to Mac to get instant awakenings. Maybe Windows 7 will resolve Microsoft's awakening problem but let's wait and see how this whole thing will perform once all features are added to the final product.
post #58 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Yea, PCs have hardware issues, but it is a tradeoff, pc guys dont have to use a $3000 tower and $400 GPU to have a reasonable graphics experience for 3d apps

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

3D apps?

You mean GAMES. GAMES aren't "3D apps."

Sorry, most Mac users could care less about Crysis. Some of us have outgrown them.

Macs were BORN to run Aperture, Final Cut Pro, and all the Pro grade "3D Apps" out there. Macs run all the graphics-intensive apps we need. And they are the industry standard. Macs are all about 3D apps.

No, I suspect he really does mean 3D apps, like Maya. I'm delighted as hell that Maya runs on Macs, but I'm sorry to say you might be exaggerating its supremacy in that particular field.

Look here...
Ars Technica Review
...which, after showing some troubling problems in Mudbox for Mac (alright! Mudbox! and yes I have ZBrush too) contains the following:

"Apple is gaining momentum in the 3D market, but that's obviously despite their lagging 3D hardware options. They should be making it easier for developers looking to bring innovative 3D products to the Mac, not harder. Please, Apple, if you're not going to take up the Quadro driver reins, at least get a 3D card that has more than 512MB of RAM. This is about working on a Macnot gamingand it's affecting people's work."

And that's in a review of the newest Mac Pro. So don't be too quick to dismiss what a_greer said. We can be enthusiastic about our platform and still admit the places where it needs improvement.

I would be ecstatic to discover 10.6 giving us some serious superiority over Windows. But the pessimistic side of me can picture Autodesk not implementing any huge Mac-only performance boosts until similar things were available for Windows. (But maybe Autodesk will prove me wrong. I admit that I was wrong in thinking they wouldn't port Mudbox. There are some things I'd be delighted to be wrong about)
post #59 of 337
An Apple tax implies that Apple pads their margins more than PC manufacturers, while they do have a higher margin than HP, they are not higher than a lot of PC manufacturers.

The fact of the matter is that Macs cost more to build than most "equivalent" PC's. How many PC's feature machined aluminum cases less than an inch thick, LED backlighting, slot loading drives, built in bluetooth, ambient light sensors, hard drive drop sensors, glass multi-touch trackpads, etc? The answer of course would be none. All those features cost extra but none show up in the "specs" of the machine. If you actually wanted to demonstrate an Apple tax you would have to determine how much it would cost to make an Apple machine, not compare it to existing PC's which don't have near the materials nor the research that is put into a mac.

As an individual, you must determine if you want to pay extra for features that don't directly affect the performance of the computer, but to those that want it, the value is there.
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post #60 of 337
i think everyone can/has adequately comment on how the comparison charts are inaccurate and blatantly skewed, but the first thing I noticed was that the charts are quite ugly. the text is not sharp and it's hard to read. at first I thought it was cause it was copied from the original report so the resolution may be lower, but I just looked at the original pdf and it looks just as bad there.

i guess that's one thing you'll get from using a pc - fugly ugly looking results.

oh, and one more thing about the commercial - i admit i didn't watch it, but i can tell you that if you're looking for a computer for hardcore gaming, get a pc. if you want a computer for anything/everything else, get a mac (especially if you're into multimedia stuff like music, photos, videos, etc.)
post #61 of 337
taxfree, go away man, you troll. First of all it will be near impossible for all Windows 7 desktop/notebooks to wake up from sleep in less then 2 seconds cause of the different hardwares out there. That just MS giving the crap to you guys and it seems you bought it.

Quote:
WINDOWS 7 + OFFICE 14 + WINMO 7 is going to rock your world.

Erm no? its going to be better then Vista, definitely but not going to rock my world, more of yawn my world. And I take iPhone OS, Blackberry and Palm Pre over the much needed update loonymo any day.

Quote:
Ballmer lost 20% of this generation to Steve Jobs, but the other Steve is fighting back with an army of 10,000 MIT grads with glasses. Lol.

10 000 MIT grads? where u get this from? And look at Vista, it got more programmers then Leopard, and look what work it produces...Its not the quantity, its the quality, try and get that into your head.
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post #62 of 337
Windows is the most taxing OS to use of all.
post #63 of 337
The "Windows - Life without walls" thing still has me really confused - how the f*ck do you have windows if you don't have walls? Idiots...
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post #64 of 337
Since I'm fed up with reading all the MS bashing (not that I actually LIKE their OS, but am forced to use it at work) and even more so the elitist attitudes of saying that certain people shouldn't use Apple products due to stereotypical reasons, I offer up a third alternative.

I would LOVE to see a Linux ad. People are fed up with Windows and Microsoft's way of programing bloat and business. Others are fed up with the prices of Apple products and Apple's iron fist of control. Bring on the free alternatives.

There are a few easy to install, easy to migrate flavors out there!
Ubuntu, openSuSE, Fedora, Mandriva to name a few. The ad could be made using all open source software, like Kdenlive, Rosegarden/Ardour, Gimp, Synfig, Inkscape, Blender. Heck, I really hope all you creative aspiring film writers at least have Celtx installed on your computers. The ad can focus on the "free" aspect of the os, the customization of the OS. The ability to still run most of your windows apps without windows (thanks to WINE!) and such. Seriously, I think its time for the open alternative!

The apps mentioned aren't close to pro aps, I know. But having worked with them there is still a bit that can be done!

In the ad, they can tout the OpenOffice offerings. NetBeans for their IDE and programing development. Compiz to make the OS have more effects than even OS X has at the moment (albet, some of them really annoying like wobbly windows) And best of all, still free, and runs on all intel based hardware (even some older stuff works on PPC chips!)

Maybe I should make this... it would be a fun project. But who would air it? How would I get the funds for it? A good number of you are railing against Microsoft (and rightly so in some cases) but there are those who don't want to use a mac. Linux is easy enough to install, but the name scares people as the "L337" OS only for geeks. That is not the case these days. Anyhow, for those railing, look at this alternative too!!

Have at 'em.

(If I leave my MS based job and make my own, I'm switching to Ubuntu!!)
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post #65 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo2 View Post

Windows is the most taxing OS to use of all.

Agreed. It's what everyone knows and accepts for some strange reason. I accompanied a friend to Best Buy to assist her in purchasing a new laptop. She originally looked at a low-end Aluminum Macbook and was convinced by friends at the 11th hour to buy a Sony Vaio which is the same model in the MS video.

I've abandoned Wintel completely a year ago and never looked back. I'm a Win2k3 sysadmin and use it 9 to 5. Even with all my experience with Windows horrors, she ended up buying the Vaio because the price was cheaper and she believed it had more value than the Macbook.

A few days later, she began to realize the mistake she made. Even though she did not take my advice, I was the one that ended up spending countless hours trying to make her Vista Home OS p.o.s. machine perform decently. I charge $70/hr for clients to deal with Windows issues. After I got the machine working for her, I told her that had I charged her for the amount of time I spent to get it working, she could have bought serveral MacBooks and each one would work right out of the box. Even now, her brand new Vaio with virtually no software still crawls at certain times and she complains about it. When I visit her, I purposely bring my MacBook Air, open it up and it just works effortlessly on her wireless network where her Vaio intermittently loses connections. I still can't figure it out.

That is the Window Tax. If Microsoft factored it time wasted getting their product to work, no one would buy it.

And btw, I run VMware/XP on my MBA for my 9-to-5 job which uses windows-only tools. When I get home, its OSX only. Guess which OS always runs stable? No contest.
post #66 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Funny thing is that had they done a "fair" comparison, there would STILL be an Apple tax, and Microsoft wouldn't have to lie about what Apple charges for products. But being greedy completely destroys the validity of the study and thus it's complete trash.

Granted, even I have a MacBook Pro and I try to avoid the "Apple" tax as best I can by buying on eBay or refurbished. Plus, everyone seems to forget that Apple products sell MUCH better on the 2nd hand market than any PC EVER will. This is probably because of the premium charged on Apple products.


I wouldn't call it an Apple "tax", it's more like an Apple "investment" that you could potentially get a positive return on if you play your cards right.

Frankly, Apples products do cost more, but for a reason. Comparing these systems is like saying a Porsche costs more than a Ford. The Ford may have more towing capacity or a certain feature that they think customers are looking for but they preform completely differently. I'd like to see how these numbers work out when compared using systems configured as closely as possible! This study is by far the most honest assessment I've seen out there and actually makes a good attempt to compare systems that are configured as close to the same as possible. If you look at the numbers in the Microsoft report, most of the mac configurations are either just plain wrong, or they are from systems that are now obsolete, having been replaced by models that were recently released. Also the systems being compared are not even close to comparable. Ex. new Mac Pros w/nehalem processors vs. the pc configured with a core 2 duo...... WAY off there! Lets have an honest assessment. Not one from someone who's being paid to tilt the scale.
post #67 of 337
Not exactly on topic... but out of nowhere my Sister-in-law said to me the other day that Apple's definitely not worth the extra money. She said she was in JB Hifi and there was a line of great looking silver laptops, really snazzy looking, no reason to spend extra on Apples.

Of course... her first mistake was that they WERE Macs. Then she said oh well... her PC is really just as good anyway (I asked her if she meant the PC her work had given her 2 months ago that still wasn't working properly after 3 IT guys tried to get it setup, or her laptop before that that she broke the screen on).

Anyway... she decided she wouldn't comment further
ps. Another mistake is she never even THOUGHT about whether a Mac was easier to use, better screen, good trackpad, faster etc - she judged entirely on what it looked like on the shelf.
pps. And yet another mistake - decide the new-fangled computer she's just seen must be cheaper than a Mac without knowing the slightest about the pricing of either.
post #68 of 337
I have a used PC to unload. I hope the ad makes it something I can now sale. Do I have to disclose that I still can't get it to work?
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post #69 of 337
If the people in this ad are any indication, then it's pretty sad how little the average computer buyer understands about the products they're comparing. "Dude, these are expensive. They're pretty, though. Let's go look at some PCs." If a computer buyer is that shallow, then it's their loss for not giving Macs more consideration.

I don't doubt that most people shop by numbers. "That computer has 320 whatsits, and this one has 500, so this one must be better." That doesn't mean they really care about the numbers. Apple's Mac/PC ads shift the focus away from pure technology to things like, can you make a home movie on it? Does it crash very often? These are the things that affect the computing experiences of average users. I imagine that's going to resonate with more people than a video of two obvious novices going through the motions at Best Buy.
post #70 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by taxfree View Post

WINDOWS 7 + OFFICE 14 + WINMO 7 is going to rock your world.

Performance. Elegance. Permanence.

So you just registered to post marketing bullshit here? (And really trite stuff at that.)

It's as if everything and everyone associated with Microsoft has a pathological tendency towards mediocrity - it simply cannot be helped. And good old Steve Ballmer serves as the pinnacle of it all.
post #71 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Microsoft's on a roll

You can say that again. Wow. Like every 1.5 weeks?

AI is getting peeved too. A bit surprised that they treat the MacBook as ancient when it's not that old, the speed bump was minor after 2 years, no FireWire, they benchmark a bit slower in some tests and no dedicated GPU.

MSFT is playing spoiler fir new iphone too. Making Apple look like fluff.
Hope apple responses. They might have too.
post #72 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adjei View Post

Damn these guys are desperate, seems Apple has them scared sh!tless.

Why they don't address their Microsoft tax?

Younknow what? It just hit me. This isn't about msft. No, it's about Sony, mobile devices, all the record labels Sony owns and cloud computing.

If Apple doesn't respond and it IS Sony, they are toast.

Kind if makes you want to BUY apple as buying American. Although they are really made in China. Amazing how all thses companies use communist countries, Amazing.
post #73 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

Not only do Mac users buy MS Office (while Windows users use Wordpad, presumably), the tables forgot to add virus protection, something like Photoshop Albums, a DVD writing program, and something like garage band.

I'd actually be interested in reading a genuine comparison

why does everyone keep bringing up virus software? You do know that Apple has semantic on their back of Hiuse computers in the stores don't you. If not, ask someone you know and trust that works at an apple store. I actually have screen shots I took when I worked there back last spring. Shhhhhhhhhhhh.
post #74 of 337
Honestly, I know so many mac users who love office. I don't know why. iWork is so UNDERATED it is a work of beauty, works great with Word, (if you have to export), and handles brouchures so well, I started using Pages instead of indesign for marketing and newsletters for my clients.

Must be strength in numbers (go pun intended) as so many seem clueless to iWork. It's a GREAT DEAL AND worth every penny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

He's totally right. Just last week I purchased a family pack of Vista Home Premium....no wait!
h

Funny thing about these ads is this. Apple's done a pretty good job of not trying to attack Microsoft's bread and butter.

Office
Windows Server

Microsoft lives or dies by their OS and Office suite and Apple , despite having iWork, hasn't made a concerted effort to harm Office sales nor have them support ODF (a potential anathema to Office file formats) and they haven't encroached on the Enterprise with server and middleware.

Yet Microsoft is acting like a bunch of babies and attacking Apple. Sure the "get a mac" "I'm a Mac you're a stinking PC" adds are funny but Apple's not screwing with Redmond's cash cow.

From the way MSFT is acting you'd think it was Apple that had the %80 marketshare
post #75 of 337
I did a little research when this Microsoft b***s*** campaign started. My aim was to compare as accurately as possible a new 2009 MacPro 2.66 8 core with an equivalent Dell.
I wont go into the detail, but here in Australia the Dell came out over a thousand dollars more expensive..
I know that Apple do not produce any hardware to serve the bottom of the market. But then their business model is not aimed there, and despite what those who do not use their hardware or software say, this way of doing business is hugely profitable. Apple is a business not a religion. They are in business to make money and they do that very well.
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post #76 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

That is the Window Tax. If Microsoft factored it time wasted getting their product to work, no one would buy it.

Let's not forget the amount of time wasted by developers, too, which leads to inferior quality apps on all platforms just because of the legacy crap that must be dealt with, instead of developers further improving their apps and making them cross-platform. Microsoft brings us all down, Windows-, Mac-, and Linux-users alike. It's somewhat the opposite of Will Roger's joke: "When the Oakies left Oklahoma and moved to California, it raised the I.Q. of both states." In this case, the Microsofties are lowering the quality of all software.
post #77 of 337
I'm a Mac guy but I find these ads to be very effective, no? Think again my Apple brothers, these ads are targeting the majority.
post #78 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Funny thing is that had they done a "fair" comparison, there would STILL be an Apple tax

That is only if you believe that you should not pay for less weight, better industrial design and the ability to run OS X.
post #79 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... and investing heavily in coolness thats cooling off."

So where does 'hot' fit in?
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post #80 of 337
Quote:
Originally Posted by city View Post

I have a used PC to unload. I hope the ad makes it something I can now sale. Do I have to disclose that I still can't get it to work?

No, you don't have to disclose those details. Just say it's an average PC.
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