or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › The Problem with Pirates
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Problem with Pirates

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
I applaud President Obama for his support of the rescue of the U.S. Captain. Very sad that 3 of his captors lost their lives over it, but they didn't really leave us much choice.

Is this recent wave of pirate attacks just a law enforcement issue, or should it be considered an act of war?

How do we stop it?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #2 of 31
It's clearly a law enforcement issue and has been since well before the US was founded...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #3 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I applaud President Obama for his support of the rescue of the U.S. Captain. Very sad that 3 of his captors lost their lives over it, but they didn't really leave us much choice.

Is this recent wave of pirate attacks just a law enforcement issue, or should it be considered an act of war?

How do we stop it?

By "we" are you referring to the U.S. or the international community?

"War" has become a word describing any campaign (military and/or otherwise) against countries, arbitrary groups of people, shadowy concepts, group of psychoactive chemicals, even religions. Is it possible to go to war against piracy any more than say, to go to war against theft, or even bad weather? The record shows that it doesn't work very well, except for the well-connected winners of the resulting government contracts.

A few decisive actions (more "policing" than "military") such as what happened recently will probably be enough to deter most would-be Blackbeards.

This relatively minor issue has been blown sky high by the media, as usual. What's next? A Department of Homeland Security "Piracy Threat Alert" system (One "Jolly Roger" for a "low" threat potential, 3 for "elevated" etc)? "Johnny, I am so sorry but Daddy says you cant take the dinghy out on the lake today because you might get boatjacked..."

Perhaps, before we obsess about a handful of outlaws on the high seas making off with some local loot, we should do something drastic about the Bankster Pirates here at home, who are robbing us of $trillions and getting away with it, while we all stare slack-jawed at the sports pages and pretend everything is fine. Yet again.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
Reply
post #4 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I applaud President Obama for his support of the rescue of the U.S. Captain. Very sad that 3 of his captors lost their lives over it, but they didn't really leave us much choice.

Is this recent wave of pirate attacks just a law enforcement issue, or should it be considered an act of war?

How do we stop it?

How is it "sad" that an armed kidnapper guarding his captive has been killed?

It's sad that it happened in the first place, but personally I spare no emotion for the pirates. "Live by the sword...", etc.
post #5 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

"Live by the sword...", etc.

I agree. Also - it would be quite easy to stop the pirates. We know which villages in Somalia they are from - just go there and take their wives and children hostage, and then trade them for the hundred or so captives on currently hijacked boats.

Of course, that kind of thing would have been a lot easier a couple hundred years ago than it is now...
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #6 of 31
"It's better to be a pirate than to join the Navy."
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #7 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978 View Post

I agree. Also - it would be quite easy to stop the pirates. We know which villages in Somalia they are from - just go there and take their wives and children hostage, and then trade them for the hundred or so captives on currently hijacked boats.

Of course, that kind of thing would have been a lot easier a couple hundred years ago than it is now...

And it never really worked hundreds of years ago...

The last thing you want is for those ransomed children of pirates to become pirates.

Does piracy still cary the death penalty?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
Reply
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

How is it "sad" that an armed kidnapper guarding his captive has been killed?

It's sad that it happened in the first place, but personally I spare no emotion for the pirates. "Live by the sword...", etc.

Independent of circumstances, is not any loss of human life at the hands of another sad?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #9 of 31
The problem with the Pirates?
Well they've had 16 consecutive losing seasons in a row for one thing.




(Perhaps you meant "pirates" and not the Pittsburgh "Pirates". )
post #10 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

And it never really worked hundreds of years ago..

Actually, it did work hundreds of years ago. That is how the British exterminated the pirates, they attacked the support towns first. Once the support towns were gone, the pirates dwindled to nothing. For example:

New Providence

http://www.thewayofthepirates.com/hi...providence.php

"In July 1718, the newly appointed governor of New Providence, Woodes Rogers, declared war on piracy. When Woodes Rogers arrived with the three warships and two sloops, a few pirates fled, but most of them decided to gave up their pirate carriers and started to live honestly. In just a few days, island was entirely pledged from the pirates."
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
post #11 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

The problem with the Pirates?
Well they've had 16 consecutive losing seasons in a row for one thing.




(Perhaps you meant "pirates" and not the Pittsburgh "Pirates". )

It was the title of a thread, so I capitalized it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #12 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Independent of circumstances, is not any loss of human life at the hands of another sad?

The example you provided as gist for this discussion is hardly devoid of circumstance.

As such, it evokes neither sorrow nor grief - therefore, nope, It's not sad. I'm still wondering - how, since the circumstance is well documented, can someone consider this "very sad"?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Very sad that 3 of his captors lost their lives over it

You even acknowledge that they were captors... very odd, in my opinion.
post #13 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

The example you provided as gist for this discussion is hardly devoid of circumstance.

Good point.

Quote:
As such, it evokes neither sorrow nor grief - therefore, nope, It's not sad.

Opinion noted.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #14 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

And it never really worked hundreds of years ago...

The last thing you want is for those ransomed children of pirates to become pirates.

Does piracy still cary the death penalty?

So it's a cycle of piracy.
post #15 of 31
Just ask for "parley". It works every time.
post #16 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

I'm still wondering - how, since the circumstance is well documented, can someone consider this "very sad"? You even acknowledge that they were captors... very odd, in my opinion.

I'm not condoning the pirates' motives or actions. They were the aggressors. They pointed an AK-47 at the captain and the Navy Seals did their job with brilliant precision and efficiency. It was a situation of "kill or be killed", and it was the right call.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #17 of 31
The idea that you might be condoning their actions never occured to me - It is just that the idea of a kidnapping pirate being killed evoking sadness in someone sparks my curiosity, and I'd like to know how someone can muster any sympathy for them.

Once someone goes down that road I don't see how they can be mourned.
post #18 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

It was the title of a thread, so I capitalized it.

My bad. The Pittsburgh pirates don't even merit capitalization at this point anyway.
post #19 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post

My bad. The Pittsburgh pirates don't even merit capitalization at this point anyway.

BUT - do they merit a shot in the head?
post #20 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taskiss View Post

The idea that you might be condoning their actions never occured to me - It is just that the idea of a kidnapping pirate being killed evoking sadness in someone sparks my curiosity, and I'd like to know how someone can muster any sympathy for them.

Once someone goes down that road I don't see how they can be mourned.



I'm not in mourning, but I am saddened at any loss of human life, no matter how abominable that life may have been.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #21 of 31
If dumping highly toxic waste (mostly western hospital's goodness) was 333 times cheaper ($3 charged instead of the usual $1000 for 'protected' waters) to illegally dump on Somalia's 2000 mile long coast and illegal over-shipping of their fish, leaving the locals out of one of their few food sources isn't enough to deal with then add on 'bad' loans and US military attacks, just to spice it up.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
Reply
post #22 of 31
Obama orders the murder of civilian criminals.
post #23 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

Obama orders the murder of civilian criminals.

I'm not sure he ordered the shooting, but gave permission for it to occur if necessary to protect an innocent life.

---

Why does the US not have more ships designed for this kind of patrol task?

The Aegis-equipped destroyers are all well and good, but their primary purpose is for a different fight altogether.

The US needs smaller, faster ships, soon. The littoral combat ship program is way, way, way overdue. Why can countries such as Sweden and Norway create amazing craft that could be put to use against pirates very effectively? They have smaller budgets, smaller militaries and so on.

The Norwegians have an amazing craft in the Skjold, which the US even borrowed for a year to evaluate.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skjold_class_patrol_boat

Even Sweden's Visby class would do the job well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visby_class_corvette

Small, fast, inexpensive to operate, small crew. For a lot less money, you could have more boats in the area able to defend against the small pirate vessels. Airborne surveillance could get a fix on the craft and vector in a patrol boat (radar on the boats is not always perfect due to sea conditions; much better to have eyes in the sky).

The US is too invested in big-ticket items. Take the F-22 battle waging now; lots of people want it, but it is simply not necessary (it has not been deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan) and too expensive. A certain number is needed, but the money after that could be far better spent on "smaller" items that can be used more effectively.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #24 of 31
http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/13/headlines#1
"A fourth Somali pirate is in US custody after surrendering earlier in the standoff. US officials admitted the killing of the pirates could escalate violence in the region. Somali pirates are still holding more than a dozen ships and more than 200 hostages. Piracy began in the region after Western ships started dumping toxic waste off the coast of Somalia, devastating the Somali fishing industry. Somali fishermen said they are worried about the increased presence of foreign navy warships off the coast."
post #25 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrJedi View Post

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/4/13/headlines#1
"A fourth Somali pirate is in US custody after surrendering earlier in the standoff. US officials admitted the killing of the pirates could escalate violence in the region. Somali pirates are still holding more than a dozen ships and more than 200 hostages. Piracy began in the region after Western ships started dumping toxic waste off the coast of Somalia, devastating the Somali fishing industry. Somali fishermen said they are worried about the increased presence of foreign navy warships off the coast."

"Western"... I've never heard of that country. Could you be more specific?
post #26 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystic View Post

"Western"... I've never heard of that country. Could you be more specific?

http://www.google.com/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
post #27 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

Why does the US not have more ships designed for this kind of patrol task?

The simple answer is because until now it wasn't a problem for the US. Even now, while Piracy may occupy much of the evening news, it really isn't a top priority in terms of human lives or total dollars affected. Sure, all human lives are valuable, but Pirates seem to represent a lesser relative risk than many other issues.

So the question is, would the limited attention of our government and military leaders be best spent on this topic or on other topics? We could certainly make better decisions, as you're alluding to with the critique of our naval assets. But would diverting attention from other issues be worth it?

I don't claim to know if attention has been optimally allocated. But I do appreciate people critiquing our governance. Going forward, I'd agree that large warships are not the vessels best suited to dealing with modern piracy.
post #28 of 31
There is a natural solution to the pirates:

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...t_11184581.htm


 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

Reply
post #29 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister View Post

I'm not sure he ordered the shooting, but gave permission for it to occur if necessary to protect an innocent life.

...

Nice spin but as commander and chief he ordered it. Which was the correct thing to do. Obama may have pebbles in his nut sack.
post #30 of 31
Look at what Obama has caused. His illegal War on Piracy has made things worse. Rather than reducing pirate attacks he's only increased them. US occupation of the sea only increases piracy.


US cargo ship escapes Somali pirate attack
post #31 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar View Post

And it never really worked hundreds of years ago...

The last thing you want is for those ransomed children of pirates to become pirates.

Does piracy still cary the death penalty?

Secretary Clinton also thinks you are wrong, it turns out.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/...acy/index.html

"Although she did not suggest the use of military force, she mentioned "going after" pirate land bases in Somalia, which is authorized in a U.N. Security Council resolution passed last December."
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › The Problem with Pirates