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Apple's share of U.S. PC market slips on sales decline - Page 3

post #81 of 167
4/16/09 at 4:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel001 View Post

A 0.1 percent fall in market share in the current circumstances doesn't seem like much of a calamity to me.

Actually, that's year to year. Apple had gotten to 8% and then gave back 6 points in one quarter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I'd say that is damn good. HP and Acer seemed to only increase because of netbook sales, which we know don't profit the company much.

Toshiba is getting close to overtaking Apple without them though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

sorry, but i can not believe that apple really wants to have market share. why not? well, if they REALLY would like to have market share, they'd have to put the price tag of the mac mini to seducing 349 US$, or the mac book price tag to 699 US$.

i fear that apple is actually more interested in generating money, and with a cheap product you can't.

Making money actually actually requires people buying their stuff which equates to marketshare. Also, since Apple does use higher margins every sales helps the bottom line a bit, but the opposite is also true. Every lost sale hurts Apple more than the competition.

Quote:
Originally Posted by heavydevelopment View Post

As long as they sell enough to keep their current level of innovation...

That might not take a whole lot as there hasn't been much innovating in the computer area lately, the iPhone and IPod lines seem to be getting all that. The Mini has been using the same case for 4 years, the cheese grater is almost six, the iMac has been updated style wise but uses a squeezed and feature robbed version of 5 year old iMac, and Macbooks have gotten so thin that Apple had to create an entirely new connector to prevent them from losing most of their ports. I do have to hand it to them on the glass keyboard and the hicap battery in the 17" though and the cool features the Mac Pro team has had to dream up to get around Ive's refusal to move past the G5 case. That seems a lot more like the innovative Apple I remember.
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post #82 of 167
4/16/09 at 4:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by synp View Post

Nice analogy, but netbooks are not mopeds.

With a netbook, you can read email, surf the net (with all the frills - flash, silverlight, AJAX just works), run any office suite - MS, Open. You can run photoshop very well - computers were powerful enough for that that it didn't matter any more when they crossed the 1GHz barrier. You can also run iTunes, VLC, run development environments, read or edit PDFs. In short you can do anything you use a laptop for.

Really? All that inside a 6GB hard drive? Impressive. Because hey, we all know that if it has enough space to contain iTunes, it must also have enough space to contain music, movies and the likes, yes? And games too, of course. I can easily imagine someone having thousands of musics, videos, while surfing the net and playing the immense choice one has with windows game titles...

Come on, turn on your brain. I've got an old laptop with a 120GB hard disk and if I hadn't an external 500GB disk I'd be dead in the water. There are a lot of other people out there that don't necessarily work exclusively in "office", you know?


Quote:
(...)All those things will run on a netbook, but probably not well enough.

"Probably", that's the biggest understatement in this thread.

Quote:
The actual set of things you can do with a laptop and can't do with a netbook is actually very small.

Listen, if all you do is chat on MSMessenger and on apple websites, while pretending to make a homework paper in MS Word, then yes, you have a point. Otherwise, you don't. Video editing is impossible by definition for you don't have enough space to do it. You don't have enough space to put your music library, and forget about games. Mostly, you'll have space for the OS, for Office, and all the other programs you'll choose, for all the word documents, and one game or two (small). That's it.


But to make things even clearer, consider this. The iPhone has 16 GB, and the iPod Touch 32GB. It has a smaller screen, but here you are, you can make docs, you can make spreadsheets, you can surf the net and it's way way more mobile and cool.

If a netbook is a "pc", how come then these two aren't? Where to draw the line then?
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post #83 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:16am
I'd like to comment on the general news.

From the comments I've read so far, I can conclude that:

1. Acer's growth came about the fusion with Gateway. Hardly impressive;

2. Apple stalled in market share, while HP skyrocketed and Dell is going down in flames. Still, most "growth" that came about in PCs were netbooks. Curious products but with zero margin, which means that it may be somewhat good for the general public (very cheap access to a semi-functioning computer, but with manufacturing quality a mistery of itself), but terrible for the corporations, because it may be cannibalizing their laptops (I say frak them. Isn't that what "creative destruction" in capitalism means?);

3. Apple doesn't sell netbooks, the closest it has with that are the iPhone and iPod Touch, which have good margins, not bad, for they have no competition (yet). This means that while mac sales may have been slightly been cannibalized with iPods and iPhones (doubt it, but for the sake of the argument), then they would have had cannibalized a good margin product with another good margin product. Which is much better than anyone else in the industry can say;

4. All the industry declined, which means Apple declined as well. I say we're still to see the bottom of the market.

5. These are all "guesses", which could be wrong. But I doubt it, the general premisse sounds credible (less people wanting pcs, more market share going to netbooks, apple maintaining share).



The showdown of 2009 will be tied first to the iPhone. It's new 3.0 OS is incredible, and if they add video editing and direct upload to youtube (and others), it's another small revolution. It will also be tied to the OS 10.6. If SL really gets the overall experience better, faster and more powerful, it will be interesting to watch its fight with windows seven.
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post #84 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

Really? All that inside a 6GB hard drive? Impressive. Because hey, we all know that if it has enough space to contain iTunes, it must also have enough space to contain music, movies and the likes, yes? And games too, of course. I can easily imagine someone having thousands of musics, videos, while surfing the net and playing the immense choice one has with windows game titles...

Come on, turn on your brain. I've got an old laptop with a 120GB hard disk and if I hadn't an external 500GB disk I'd be dead in the water. There are a lot of other people out there that don't necessarily work exclusively in "office", you know?




"Probably", that's the biggest understatement in this thread.



Listen, if all you do is chat on MSMessenger and on apple websites, while pretending to make a homework paper in MS Word, then yes, you have a point. Otherwise, you don't. Video editing is impossible by definition for you don't have enough space to do it. You don't have enough space to put your music library, and forget about games. Mostly, you'll have space for the OS, for Office, and all the other programs you'll choose, for all the word documents, and one game or two (small). That's it.


But to make things even clearer, consider this. The iPhone has 16 GB, and the iPod Touch 32GB. It has a smaller screen, but here you are, you can make docs, you can make spreadsheets, you can surf the net and it's way way more mobile and cool.

If a netbook is a "pc", how come then these two aren't? Where to draw the line then?

You do know that most netbooks have a 120-160 GB harddrive?
And even those that don't - like my ASUS GO that has a 20 GB SSD drive + 32 GB SD-card - can do almost everything an ordinary PC can do. You can't play HD-movies or advanced games. But everything else works great - and you can work just as effectively as on an ordinary PC.
Plus: I get up to 7 hour battery life, 3 USB-ports AND I have a built in 3G-modem so I can connect to the internet anywhere anytime.

Apple will have to get into this market somehow, and soon.
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post #85 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:26am
What happened to Dell??

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

I'd like to comment on the general news.

From the comments I've read so far, I can conclude that:

1. Acer's growth came about the fusion with Gateway. Hardly impressive;

2. Apple stalled in market share, while HP skyrocketed and Dell is going down in flames. Still, most "growth" that came about in PCs were netbooks. Curious products but with zero margin, which means that it may be somewhat good for the general public (very cheap access to a semi-functioning computer, but with manufacturing quality a mistery of itself), but terrible for the corporations, because it may be cannibalizing their laptops (I say frak them. Isn't that what "creative destruction" in capitalism means?);

3. Apple doesn't sell netbooks, the closest it has with that are the iPhone and iPod Touch, which have good margins, not bad, for they have no competition (yet). This means that while mac sales may have been slightly been cannibalized with iPods and iPhones (doubt it, but for the sake of the argument), then they would have had cannibalized a good margin product with another good margin product. Which is much better than anyone else in the industry can say;

4. All the industry declined, which means Apple declined as well. I say we're still to see the bottom of the market.

5. These are all "guesses", which could be wrong. But I doubt it, the general premisse sounds credible (less people wanting pcs, more market share going to netbooks, apple maintaining share).



The showdown of 2009 will be tied first to the iPhone. It's new 3.0 OS is incredible, and if they add video editing and direct upload to youtube (and others), it's another small revolution. It will also be tied to the OS 10.6. If SL really gets the overall experience better, faster and more powerful, it will be interesting to watch its fight with windows seven.
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post #86 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bodypainter View Post

sorry, but i can not believe that apple really wants to have market share. why not? well, if they REALLY would like to have market share, they'd have to put the price tag of the mac mini to seducing 349 US$, or the mac book price tag to 699 US$.

i fear that apple is actually more interested in generating money, and with a cheap product you can't.

These market share numbers are nothing but a marketing Ponzie Scheme where manufacturers manufacture such junk computers that the manufacturer keeps selling to the same buyer year after year. Where most of my customers only buy new Macs every 7 + years.
Real market share numbers would show machines in use not purchased. So if the average Mac's life is 5 years and the Cheap PC's 1 year and there are 5 Mac Customers who buy a new Mac CustA 1 in year 1 and CustB 1 in year 2 etc every year until year 6 When CustA replaces his 5 year old Mac with a new one and year 7 CustB does the same etc. But with the same scenario in the PC world and yearly replacments by year 5 there would be market share numbers Mac 16% and PC's 84% where in reality Mac ownership would be 50% equal to PC ownership in Year 5. So the longer your machine remains usable the lower your market share would appear. Some Cheap PC's can't even outlive the Government's depreciation schedule.
KennDDS
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post #87 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KennMSr View Post

These market share numbers are nothing but a marketing Ponzie Scheme where manufacturers manufacture such junk computers that the manufacturer keeps selling to the same buyer year after year. Where most of my customers only buy new Macs every 7 + years.
Real market share numbers would show machines in use not purchased. So if the average Mac's life is 5 years and the Cheap PC's 1 year and there are 5 Mac Customers who buy a new Mac CustA 1 in year 1 and CustB 1 in year 2 etc every year until year 6 When CustA replaces his 5 year old Mac with a new one and year 7 CustB does the same etc. But with the same scenario in the PC world and yearly replacments by year 5 there would be market share numbers Mac 16% and PC's 84% where in reality Mac ownership would be 50% equal to PC ownership in Year 5. So the longer your machine remains usable the lower your market share would appear. Some Cheap PC's can't even outlive the Government's depreciation schedule.

A reasonable view.
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post #88 of 167
4/16/09 at 5:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urgon View Post

Apple will have to get into this market somehow, and soon.

No they won't.

The profit on a $599 iPhone is > $300
The profit on a $299 netbook is < $50.

Best guess is that one iPhone = 6 netbooks.
So why exactly should Apple get into this market?

Netbooks are selling big units. But no one is making any money on them.

C.
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post #89 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

Really? All that inside a 6GB hard drive? Impressive. Because hey, we all know that if it has enough space to contain iTunes, it must also have enough space to contain music, movies and the likes, yes? And games too, of course. I can easily imagine someone having thousands of musics, videos, while surfing the net and playing the immense choice one has with windows game titles...

Come on, turn on your brain. I've got an old laptop with a 120GB hard disk and if I hadn't an external 500GB disk I'd be dead in the water. There are a lot of other people out there that don't necessarily work exclusively in "office", you know?





Listen, if all you do is chat on MSMessenger and on apple websites, while pretending to make a homework paper in MS Word, then yes, you have a point. Otherwise, you don't. Video editing is impossible by definition for you don't have enough space to do it. You don't have enough space to put your music library, and forget about games. Mostly, you'll have space for the OS, for Office, and all the other programs you'll choose, for all the word documents, and one game or two (small). That's it.


But to make things even clearer, consider this. The iPhone has 16 GB, and the iPod Touch 32GB. It has a smaller screen, but here you are, you can make docs, you can make spreadsheets, you can surf the net and it's way way more mobile and cool.

If a netbook is a "pc", how come then these two aren't? Where to draw the line then?

What are you talking about? Go check the original toilet seated iBook's spec for a laugh then. 6GB hard drive indeed.
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post #90 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

No they won't.

The profit on a $599 iPhone is > $300
The profit on a $299 netbook is < $50.

Best guess is that one iPhone = 6 netbooks.
So why exactly should Apple get into this market?

Netbooks are selling big units. But no one is making any money on them.

C.

Wrong- Microsoft is.
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post #91 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:15am
Yesterday, I bought a new Mac: it's called a Dell mini 9. I think I am going to call it Dellmac. It runs MacOs X 10.5.6 impecably.

It costed me 100 (about 80 dollars) in Vodafone Portugal, plus an 18 month 3G connection per 22 a month (3,6 Mbs with unlimited downloads 8 hours a day).

Boy, my new Macbook is going to rest for a while!
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post #92 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:20am
Some of the posters here that think that netbooks are not "real" computers obviously have not been shopping for them.

The MSI Wind, probably the most popular netbook (especially for those who want to run OS X), has a 1.6Ghz processor, 160Gb hard drive and 2Gb of RAM. There are a lot of people out there doing real work on full sized computers with lesser specs. It's certainly NOT analagous to an iPhone. It's a small, low powered, fully functioning computer.
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post #93 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh View Post

I think you are intentionally misconstruing my words. We are talking market share which by definition is the amount sold, hence market - an area or arena in which commercial dealings are conducted . This metric measures the quantity sold not installed.

The originators of this report have decided what is included and the iPod touch is not included in this report but the netbooks are. This is the only point I am arguing which is that netbooks should not be in this metric.

The PC market share category should be for personal computers and should not include any device that is not a PC. To include netbooks is highly disingenuous. It does not tell the story of cannibalization. Is it really good news that a company is selling more widgets, but the new widgets only generate 50% of the gross income of the widget they replaced. Hey it is great news. We've added 25% more support requirements, warranty obligations but we've made a lot less money. It just seems suspect to add netbooks as it hides something important.

As to the straw man you keep building, I merely acknowledged that some people include the iPod Touch in the installed OS numbers. When AI has an article discussing the os installed base I will be happy to argue that point with you.

I'm not misconstruing anything- all I'm saying is you can't have it both ways. There once were laptops (Apple's included) with less power than some current netbooks. An iPod touch or iPhone is not running Leopard - they run a mibile iPhone OS2.0. If they were included then you would have to include all the Microsoft Mobile phones- would you want that?
And yes there have been prior threads regarding OS percentages at AI which includes what we mentioned..
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post #94 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by justflybob View Post

OMG! You're the guy in the E*TRADE ad!

You know.... the one that almost has an orgasm because he bought stocks in [gasp!] Hong Kong?

Or maybe that little kid that throws up in the ad?
Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #95 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:30am
Poor headline and pretty misleading story from Appleinsider. Looks more like a ZDNet blog post.

You seem to just be looking at these figures as some kind of league table and missing the real information. There is also some pretty interesting detail in the actual reports but you have chosen to ignore it.

Finally (perhaps in error) you have failed to publish the IDC figures (which completely change the complexion of the stats) in the forum post.

Those figures can be found on the front page story:
apples_share_of_u_s_pc_market_slips_to_7_4_as_sale s_decline
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post #96 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Some of the posters here that think that netbooks are not "real" computers obviously have not been shopping for them.

Well would you really expect Apple fanboyz to shop outside the Apple store?
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post #97 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

This is a dumb story.
Market share should be measured in dollars spent - not in units shipped.

Unrelated to the thread, but a pet peeve of mine, I wish that movie sales were measured in the number of ticket sales, like in countries outside the US.
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post #98 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mheidegger View Post

Yesterday, I bought a new Mac: it's called a Dell mini 9. I think I am going to call it Dellmac. It runs MacOs X 10.5.6 impecably.

It costed me €100 (about 80 dollars) in Vodafone Portugal, plus an 18 month 3G connection per €22 a month (3,6 Mbs with unlimited downloads 8 hours a day).

Boy, my new Macbook is going to rest for a while!

You hit the nail on the head. I would buy a new ultra-portable laptop today, right now, with OSX running on it if it was small.
A Sony TT with its matte hybrid screen , HDMI, & firewire would be awesome with OSX.
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post #99 of 167
4/16/09 at 6:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bsenka View Post

Some of the posters here that think that netbooks are not "real" computers obviously have not been shopping for them.

They certainly are real computers, but they have severe limitations that prevent them from being netbook replacements.

Quote:
The MSI Wind, probably the most popular netbook (especially for those who want to run OS X), has a 1.6Ghz processor...

Hold up, saying that it has a 1.6GHz CPU is pretty pointless as the MBA has a 1.6GHz CPU, too. If you aren't stating that it's an Atom CPU you are being disingenuous. That CPU can't even handle smooth playing of Hulu TV Shows in their higher-res 480p option.

Quote:
There are a lot of people out there doing real work on full sized computers with lesser specs. It's certainly NOT analagous to an iPhone. It's a small, low powered, fully functioning computer.

The only specs that may be lesser are the RAM amount and speed, and/or the HDD capacity, but that doesn't mean that they have less computing power. You'd have to go back pretty far to find a notebook that can't out perform an Atom. But more importantly, there are physical restrictions that make any netbook less than ideal for most PC users as their main system. The main ones are the keyboard size and the screen size. The smaller ones are the screen resolution, backlighting, the quality of he keys. For many of the same reasons that consumers prefer PCs that don't cost $400 when the cheap budget machines are technically useable, people will nor prefer netbooks. In fact, you get a whole lot more computer for the money with a $400 notebook from Dell or HP. You can actually get a C2D CPU and high resolution display.

I like to compare a netbook to a portable TV. It can connect to cable or sat. You can even hook up a DVD player and whatnot. It can technically do every basic thing that a large, quality TV can do for a fraction of the price, except offer the same user experience. That is what a netbook is.

Disclosure: I have both an MSI Wind and an Acer Aspire One. The Wind I bought with the sole purpose of installing OSx86 to use when roughing it at times or when traveling to countries where theft is high as I would care about my $1600 MB more than a $300 netbook. The Aspire I bought as a remedy as a temp stand in when I was without any notebook for a few weeks. My iPhone is great, but it's not a notebook replacement when used as your sole device. OS X was not installed as their are no WiFi KEXT for it.
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post #100 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:06am
Considering the current climate of our economy, Apple is doing quite well to weather the storm. I am not dismayed by these recent numbers, and if anything Apple probably is doing better than most of these other computer industry companies.
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post #101 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Wrong- Microsoft is.

True.
Which - I has have said before - means that Apple might profit by licensing OS X to a limited set of preferred vendors.

Apple should leave selling computers with zero profitability to those companies happy to play the zero profit game.

C.
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post #102 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:28am
I'm not surprised at all. The last laptop refresh was underwhelming and the last desktop refresh was a flat out disappointment - many people considered aspects of it a step backward. Apple has done well over the last few years, but in the short term they sure seem to be dropping the ball and out of touch with what is going on in the world. Unless they get a clue, I can see growth lagging for a while.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

The 1st Quarter is always the lowest of the year. What's more interesting is the year over year same quarter and how the rest of the industry is doing compared to their year over year with the current economy.

Did you even read the article? That's exactly what it addresses - loss of MARKET SHARE, meaning Apple underperformed compared to the competition.
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post #103 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by italiankid View Post

Considering that only 2 of the 5 makers reported a decline... That isn't great news for Apple or Dell.

Apple is losing ground.

Those MS Ads are working hahaha

You do realize that Macs service the PREMIUM end of the market, and Applw commands about 70% of that, right? Most of the market is by default locked out of Apple's range. Apple isn't looking to gain a lot of ground, just grow their target market. $600 Dell users need not apply. Apple makes a premium product at high margins. It's an entirely different ballgame. "Losing ground" takes on an entirely different meaning in this context. Premium products are not about market share. Never have been, unless you look at the kind of consumer at which these products are targeted, and compare to other premium products in the same class.

Do you think people buy into the MS ecosystem (if you can even call it that) because they make a better product? Hardly.

People buy into it because for many, it's all they can afford at the moment. MS and the junk-box makers peddle a Wal-Mart-like line of products. The user experience between an Apple product and an MS product is like night and day. It's no accident that the Apple-like experience and its associated product ecosystem is the envy of the industry, coveted by the "big" players, but out of reach due to a number of factors, not the least of which is the attitude they have about how the user should interact ideally with a device.

I'm surprised you think that the MS ads have anything redeeming about them. They openly denigrate the product and the user. I'd be embarrassed to be associated with products like that. With every one of these ads, MS has in one breath called their userbase cheap losers, and their products last-resort junk.

The question is . . . which experience do YOU want to be a part of?
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post #104 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

True.
Which - I has have said before - means that Apple might profit by licensing OS X to a limited set of preferred vendors.

Apple should leave selling computers with zero profitability to those companies happy to play the zero profit game.

C.

Sounds good to me- love the OS, not crazy about the current crop of Macs.
Once SJ leaves I think it will be inevitable.
Apple's now more and more an electronics company these days anyway. Now we're hearing cameras next?
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post #105 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

True.
Which - I has have said before - means that Apple might profit by licensing OS X to a limited set of preferred vendors.

Apple should leave selling computers with zero profitability to those companies happy to play the zero profit game.

C.

Agree on the "zero-profit" point (your second one.)

Not so sure I agree with the licensing point. Apple already profits like pig in the computer department. Macs represent their biggest profit source already. While licensing OS X out to a limited number of vendors might seem like a good idea, it can very easily lead to a deterioration of what the OS stands for. OS X must stay locked to Apple hardware. That not only maintains the kind of desirability that comes wit exclusivity and that "Premium" image, but it also ensures that there won't be any issues that commonly plague a Windows-based system. The whole point of Mac/OS X is that it is a closed system, with the software closely married to the hardware. The integration is tightest in the industry. That needs to be maintained under any and all circumstances. Lose that, and you get a Windows clone. No thanks.

I understand that this "limited licensing" idea might likely come with strict provisos as to how and what the OS can be installed on, but I'd be the last person to trust that such a thing will maintain the integrity of the OS (and thus the user experience) over the long term.
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post #106 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Sounds good to me- love the OS, not crazy about the current crop of Macs.
Once SJ leaves I think it will be inevitable.

God help OS X if it is. That'll be the beginning of the end.
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post #107 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

God help OS X if it is. That'll be the beginning of the end.

Of what- Apple's measly market share?
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post #108 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

Really? All that inside a 6GB hard drive? Impressive. Because hey, we all know that if it has enough space to contain iTunes, it must also have enough space to contain music, movies and the likes, yes? And games too, of course. I can easily imagine someone having thousands of musics, videos, while surfing the net and playing the immense choice one has with windows game titles...

You really think people buy netbooks as their PRIMARY machine?

With the exception of grandma types who might not do anything beyond web and email, I can't imagine netbook owners only having that. Most will have either a home desktop or something similar that will have the big audio/video library and they'll only transfer over the media they want to take with to the netbook (or just stream it via wifi). And most of the netbooks I've seen have had more than 6 gigs.

The netbook is designed for pretty basic use, stuff like video editing isn't what it was ever intended for. But I can't imagine anyone doing video editing buying a netbook as their primary machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carniphage View Post

The profit on a $599 iPhone is > $300
The profit on a $299 netbook is < $50.

So why couldn't apple sell that same netbook for $499? Sure, it would be overpriced. But it would seem like an absolute steal compared to apple's current laptops starting at 999 or 1299.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mheidegger View Post

Yesterday, I bought a new Mac: it's called a Dell mini 9. I think I am going to call it Dellmac. It runs MacOs X 10.5.6 impecably.

Have a link with specific instructions for that model? Is it really 100% functional? Including stuff like cooling and proper battery use?
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post #109 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

I'm not surprised at all. The last laptop refresh was underwhelming and the last desktop refresh was a flat out disappointment - many people considered aspects of it a step backward. Apple has done well over the last few years, but in the short term they sure seem to be dropping the ball and out of touch with what is going on in the world. Unless they get a clue, I can see growth lagging for a while.

These latest MacBooks are the best Apple has ever produced. There have been issues with using so much new tech, but all of us reading this forum should expect that from any CE company, including Apple. The lack of mini-DVI and the nearly obsolete FW400 only seem to be important to a small, yet vocal, of posters.
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post #110 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

These latest MacBooks are the best Apple has ever produced. There have been issues with using so much new tech, but all of us reading this forum should expect that from any CE company, including Apple. The lack of mini-DVI and the nearly obsolete FW400 only seem to be important to a small, yet vocal, of posters.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was talking specifically about the last refresh which was just the 17. Not a bad refresh, but not particularly exciting since it was basically the second half of the previous refresh, just the 17 belatedly catching up to the other two.

And while the MacBooks are decent models, they are still extremely limited in the options they offer to consumers. In this economy, having to pay two grand just to get a 15 inch screen (and have to pay for things you may not even necessarily want) isn't particularly competitive.
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post #111 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Of what- Apple's measly market share?

I don't think you understand what selling a Premium product at high margins means.

You're too stuck in the Windows/PC way of thinking. It might help to get away from Neowin for a while and spend more time learning about Macs and Apple's successful business model.
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post #112 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

These latest MacBooks are the best Apple has ever produced. There have been issues with using so much new tech, but all of us reading this forum should expect that from any CE company, including Apple. The lack of mini-DVI and the nearly obsolete FW400 only seem to be important to a small, yet vocal, of posters.

Are you the director/spin doctor of Apple publicity? How many posters have stated they hate high glossy screens esoecially on the iMAc? I was in the Apple store 5th Ave yesterday and they still teach Apple class on the last matte cinema display. Why> so everbody can view it. It's clearly the best display in the whole store out of close to 100 perhaps?
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post #113 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

I don't think you understand what selling a Premium product at high margins means.

You're too stuck in the Windows/PC way of thinking. It might help to get away from Neowin for a while and spend more time learning about Macs and Apple's successful business model.

Fine- then you'll be happy if the market share shrinks back down to 5%?
So then everyone on here needs to stop droning and whining about how Miscrosoft has all the market share, etc, etc,.
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post #114 of 167
4/16/09 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Fine- then you'll be happy if the market share shrinks back down to 5%?

It all depends on whether Apple's core market can maintain its margins. The lower the market share, the greater the need to increase margins. At some point there will be a cut-off between how much Apple's specific market is willing to pay for what they perceive they are getting in return. That market is willing to pay a helluva lot, make no mistake. Apple's current strategy can go on and on for quite a while with little modification. And as economic conditions improve, that strategy will again be the most successful.

You seem to think market share is some definite, static measure of quality or profitability. It isn't.

And there isn't ONE monolithic market. There are several segments to it, each with different levels of disposable income, lifestyle expectations, etc. While unemployment has surged in the US, and the middle class is shrinking, there will always be a segment with steady jobs (read: careers), plenty of disposable income, ready to pay for a Mac or similar premium-end product. For some reason some people tend to think that Apple refusing to lower prices in this climate is an insult. Of course they might give way on a few items, but it won't be significant. We need to understand that Apple isn't looking to target everyone. Now, if some consumers who were previously in an "Apple-friendly" income bracket have for whatever reason dropped out of it, that's an issue, assuming those dropouts aren't replaced anyway. So there will be a cut-off point as I mentioned above. Right now, though, we're a long, long way from seeing it.
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post #115 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It all depends on whether Apple's core market can maintain its margins.

You seem to think market share is some definite measure of quality or profitability. It isn't.

And there isn't ONE monolithic market. There are several segments to it, each with different levels of disposable income, lifestyle expectations, etc.

Your close-mindedness seems to think that freeing the OS would hurt Apple??
Do you work in the Auto industry?
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post #116 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your close-mindedness seems to think that freeing the OS would hurt Apple??

I don't see how thinking that is "closed minded", it seems pretty logical to me.

Sure, selling the OS independently would add some sales. But it would also mean that quite a few sales of $2999 machines would be replaced by sales of a $199 (or whatever) OS disk. And I think the biggest threat is that many people would just pirate the OS - apple would be losing sales of machines and making nothing in return in those cases.
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post #117 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder View Post

Sorry I wasn't clear, I was talking specifically about the last refresh which was just the 17. Not a bad refresh, but not particularly exciting since it was basically the second half of the previous refresh, just the 17 belatedly catching up to the other two.

Gotcha! I was surprised by that post because from your previous postings I knew you would have known that.

I think the 17" model's non-removable battery will catch on with the rest of the line with the next refresh or two. It's just too inline with Apple's business model for them not to do it. I just hope they use their premium position to offer silveroxide batteries so they can last even longer. Getting a minimum of 8 hours out of every Mac notebook would certainly help set them apart from the rest of the market.

The 17" has been problematic. From the initial delay to the Nvidia 9600 GPU issues to that bolted on, last minute matte screen option. I have a feeling that in a year the sales would have been too low that they won't even be offering the matte screen option. We'll just have an AI article that states, "The Cupertino-based Mac-maker has quietly removed the matte display option from their 17" MacBook Pro."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

It all depends on whether Apple's core market can maintain its margins.

Any reasonable person would be happy with 1% marketshare or less if it meant Apple was still maintaining its margins and selling more units year-over-year.
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post #118 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by teckstud View Post

Your close-mindedness seems to think that freeing the OS would hurt Apple??
Do you work in the Auto industry?

The reason that OS X is so well differentiated from everything else out there in terms of stability, reliability and ease of use is BECAUSE it is locked to specific hardware.

Apple's complete control over everything is the very reason they've achieved so much success in such a short time. There is simply no other way to ensure that a particular (in terms of quality) user experience is maintained across the board.
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post #119 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Any reasonable person would be happy with 1% marketshare or less if it meant Apple was still maintaining its margins and selling more units year-over-year.

As a stockholder, maybe. But as a user I'd strongly disagree - market share is a major factor in software support, and macs need decent third party apps available to remain a viable platform.
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post #120 of 167
4/16/09 at 8:15am
to sell simplified and cheaper versions of iPhone doesn't seem silly while recession's spreading...

We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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We mean Apple no harm.

People are lovers, basically. -- Engadget livebloggers at the iPad mini event.

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